COVID and Football (Merged)

[egg]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

The experts definitely did say to avoid Christmas parties

Cut back is not avoid. Be selective is not avoid. Some people want to hide away, that's there prerogative, but a non expert suggesting that people should do that is as damaging and dangerous (from a mental health perspective) as other non experts suggesting that people shouldn't have a vaccine and/or covid (from a physical health perspective). 

You're no more qualified to tell people what to do than Tiss. 

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Link?

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-12-15/deprioritise-social-interactions-ahead-of-christmas-chris-whitty-urges

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chris-whitty-christmas-party-tory-mp-b1977266.html

 

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Cut back is not avoid. Be selective is not avoid. Some people want to hide away, that's there prerogative, but a non expert suggesting that people should do that is as damaging and dangerous (from a mental health perspective) as other non experts suggesting that people shouldn't have a vaccine and/or covid (from a physical health perspective). 

You're no more qualified to tell people what to do than Tiss. 

To cut back is to partially avoid. If you don't avoid any interactions, how can you be said to cut back?

[S-Clarke]

9 minutes ago, TWar said:

The experts definitely did say to avoid Christmas parties

They didn't, they said to make choices - which is fair. Make your own judgements on what you feel is right and wrong etc.

The thing is the big corps etc feel pressured into showing the way, so they're binning all their do's. 

The general tone is to be sensible, but the problem is the media and the crying scientists trying to instil the mother of all fear into everyone - which is what's making them feel they've been told to avoid everything. It's about a judgement choice in terms of what you feel is right.

[egg]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

To cut back is to partially avoid. If you don't avoid any interactions, how can you be said to cut back?

Ha!! Forget cutting back, you're rowing backwards mate. 

Let's face it, this is yet another example where you think you know better than most. You've tried to back it up with same made up nonsense that we've been told to avoid parties and the world outside the window. 

You're no expert on this. If you want to hide away, crack on, but don't dispense advice on something you're not qualified to advise on. 

[Weston Super Saint]

7 minutes ago, TWar said:

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-12-15/deprioritise-social-interactions-ahead-of-christmas-chris-whitty-urges

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chris-whitty-christmas-party-tory-mp-b1977266.html

 

Nope.  Nothing in there that states 'avoid Christmas parties'.

He does say to 'deprioritise' social interactions, but that very much leaves it up to the individuals to decide for themselves what is and isn't important to them.

Have you got a link to 'experts' stating we should 'avoid' Christmas parties?

[Noodles34]

I’ve been wearing a mask for the last couple of days in supermarkets, golf etc. first time for ages but on reflection, why am I doing it? Because I guess, almost subconsciously I was feeling the pressure of standing out, which is very much unlike me.  We got people coming round at Christmas so there was a bit of ‘not a good time to catch it’, though it’s not the end of the world if they don’t come and they all had it a few weeks ago. They probably would still come anyway. 
But one thing that has inspired me not to wear a mask in a supermarket, which is a big open place and I don’t really get close to people, are the twats on here, just brainwashed on the crap that comes out on the media day after day. 
I think Matts main point was the lack of information, I mean, if we have to have a daily death count, which is fucking ridiculous, then let’s have the average age, let’s have a daily survival count as well. Let’s have a vaccine complication count while we’re at it and let’s have some really hospital % figures, not just the hospitals are overworked. One thing that doctors and nurses have always said, and rightly so to be fair, is that they’re fucking overworked. So let’s see those figures and then we can actually decide what’s really going on.

or we can hide behind the sofa like kids watching Dr Who, like some of the absolute bellends on here. 

[CanadaSaint]

Just as a matter of personal interest, has anyone in this debate lost somebody precious as a result of Covid?

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, egg said:

The experts aren't telling us to sit on our arses at home though. It's people like you, the non experts, who are telling us whilst criticising other non qualified people for telling people what to do. 

Luckily the country is run by people like him. We wouldn’t expect people like you to understand 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, CanadaSaint said:

Just as a matter of personal interest, has anyone in this debate lost somebody precious as a result of Covid?

Not lost but one of my best mates was in an ICU in a coma and on an ECMO machine for 9 weeks at the start of the year. 44 with no health issues. There was talk of turning it off and his wife and kids had been told to say goodbye. Somehow he pulled through and has made almost a full recovery. Although he actually has covid again right now, although this time he is fine and it’s little more than a sore throat and cold. Spoke to him earlier and he’s fine. 

[Noodles34]

What also makes me laugh, we’ll cringe is my FB pals posting ‘Boosted’ like it’s some badge of honor FFS. I get for some people, they feel like it’s a necessity and that’s fine if they feel they need it, but to feel Proud of getting something that we really shouldn’t be doing (in the sense of it’s pretty Imuch chemical warfare) is like saying in the Cold War “I’ve got my nuclear bunker sorted!”

Edited 17 December, 2021 by Noodles34

[Turkish]

36 minutes ago, Noodles34 said:

I’ve been wearing a mask for the last couple of days in supermarkets, golf etc. first time for ages but on reflection, why am I doing it? Because I guess, almost subconsciously I was feeling the pressure of standing out, which is very much unlike me.  We got people coming round at Christmas so there was a bit of ‘not a good time to catch it’, though it’s not the end of the world if they don’t come and they all had it a few weeks ago. They probably would still come anyway. 
But one thing that has inspired me not to wear a mask in a supermarket, which is a big open place and I don’t really get close to people, are the twats on here, just brainwashed on the crap that comes out on the media day after day. 
I think Matts main point was the lack of information, I mean, if we have to have a daily death count, which is fucking ridiculous, then let’s have the average age, let’s have a daily survival count as well. Let’s have a vaccine complication count while we’re at it and let’s have some really hospital % figures, not just the hospitals are overworked. One thing that doctors and nurses have always said, and rightly so to be fair, is that they’re fucking overworked. So let’s see those figures and then we can actually decide what’s really going on.

or we can hide behind the sofa like kids watching Dr Who, like some of the absolute bellends on here. 

Excellent post and sums up my view as well. I’d be very interested to see the number of people who die with covid not because of it. I know Of 3 cases where people were going to die within weeks or even days caught covid in hospital and cause of death went down as covid. But we never see or hear any of that. 

[Lighthouse]

8 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

Just as a matter of personal interest, has anyone in this debate lost somebody precious as a result of Covid?

A family member who is a fit, daily runner and sometimes referees local football matches caught it last year. It didn't kill him but it wiped him out for months, he was too exhausted to do much more than wander around the house, even the stairs were a challenge. We don't think he has permanent respiratory damage but COVID is not just a question of death or he's fine.

[egg]

3 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

Just as a matter of personal interest, has anyone in this debate lost somebody precious as a result of Covid?

No, and I feel for anyone who has. That said, is that relevant to the discussion? We're in the midst of an acceleration of cases with a variant of as yet unknown seriousness. Most people are taking a cautious view and assessing their own risk. I just can't be doing with sanctimonious people insisting that we must do what they choose to do. I was in a social setting earlier but left early as there loads of unmasked people some of whom were coughing and spluttering, not worth the risk. I'll go out for brekkie with the missus tomorrow morning though. Next week I'll work but a bit from home and a bit in the office with a skeleton staff. I'll mask up and LF regularly. I may catch covid, but hopefully not, but I'll live life doing my bit to help myself and others whilst not vegetating in front of the news. 

[CanadaSaint]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Excellent post and sums up my view as well. I’d be very interested to see the number of people who die with covid not because of it. I know Of 3 cases where people were going to die within weeks or even days caught covid in hospital and cause of death went down as covid. But we never see or hear any of that. 

It’s not all in that direction though, Turkish. There are also instances in which people recovered from Covid but died from a cause it triggered. They would be here now but for Covid, but the cause of death on the death certificate wasn’t Covid. So they’re not in the stats.

[egg]

8 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

It’s not all in that direction though, Turkish. There are also instances in which people recovered from Covid but died from a cause it triggered. They would be here now but for Covid, but the cause of death on the death certificate wasn’t Covid. So they’re not in the stats.

There's a lot of that. Plus people left with all sorts of issues they have to live with. I've heard a few cases of people left with type 1 diabetes, heart issues, nervous system issues, even arthritis. People focus on the death, or recovery, but not what this stuff can leave people to have to live with. 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

Just do what the experts advise, it's really as simple as that. We have organisations like the WHO and NHS advice for a reason.

The the experts advise arse sitting then do some arse sitting, and don't cry about it. If they say avoid gatherings like christmas parties like they have this year then maybe do that too. If they say its fine to have a pint, do that if you fancy it

Yeah I did, that’s why I isolated for 10 days when I had it and another 10 days when my wife had it before they changed that rule, that’s why I got a PCR test two days after coming back from holiday and that’s why im Not pretending the “experts” have said things they haven’t like you are. 

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

There's a lot of that. Plus people left with all sorts of issues they have to live with. I've heard a few cases of people left with type 1 diabetes, heart issues, nervous system issues, even arthritis. People focus on the death, or recovery, but not what this stuff can leave people to have to live with. 

I do know a lad that has had long covid and side issues for over a year now. He’s still struggling with his breathing and can’t exercise like he used too, was an MMA competitor before covid, couldn’t punch his way out of a bag these days. 

[egg]

Just now, Turkish said:

I do know a lad that has had long covid and side issues for over a year now. He’s still struggling with his breathing and can’t exercise like he used too, was an MMA competitor before covid, couldn’t punch his way out of a bag these days. 

Sad to hear. Youngster at work has a friend in a similar position, elite athlete who's a shadow of what he is. We all know the potential of this, but I know of more people who've topped themselves last year than have died of Covid, and of more people who's mental health has gone off a cliff than people who have long Covid. Life has to go on, or there's a risk it won't anyway. 

[Dorchester Saint]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/19791817.hasenhuttl-reveals-covid-19-vaccination-rate-saints/

 

Ralph reveals ‘almost’ 100% vaccination rate at Saints…..just a hunch so don’t all attack me:

 

is Stuart Armstrong opposed to the covid vaccine? 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

Sad to hear. Youngster at work has a friend in a similar position, elite athlete who's a shadow of what he is. We all know the potential of this, but I know of more people who've topped themselves last year than have died of Covid, and of more people who's mental health has gone off a cliff than people who have long Covid. Life has to go on, or there's a risk it won't anyway. 

I'm hesitant to wade in here having not read the whole thread but isn't the point that while most of us would agree that we need to get back to normal as soon as we can, we can't have a situation where the NHS gets overloaded and people die who could otherwise be treated. People dying outside hospitals is not something we can tolerate.

And that is the concern at the moment - even if Omicron is less fatal, the sheer number of people who are going to get it mean that more people will be hospitalised.

Personally I think we just need to get over this wave, potentially with restrictions, and then the pandemic will be basically over and we can go back to normal by summer

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Dorchester Saint said:

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/19791817.hasenhuttl-reveals-covid-19-vaccination-rate-saints/

 

Ralph reveals ‘almost’ 100% vaccination rate at Saints…..just a hunch so don’t all attack me:

 

is Stuart Armstrong opposed to the covid vaccine? 

He had it didn’t he? I can’t believe that he’d leave him out for something that is a matter of personal choice 

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I'm hesitant to wade in here having not read the whole thread but isn't the point that while most of us would agree that we need to get back to normal as soon as we can, we can't have a situation where the NHS gets overloaded and people die who could otherwise be treated. People dying outside hospitals is not something we can tolerate.

And that is the concern at the moment - even if Omicron is less fatal, the sheer number of people who are going to get it mean that more people will be hospitalised.

Personally I think we just need to get over this wave, potentially with restrictions, and then the pandemic will be basically over and we can go back to normal by summer

We need to ride this out for sure, but unless you're advocating a lock down, what's the solution? 

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I'm hesitant to wade in here having not read the whole thread but isn't the point that while most of us would agree that we need to get back to normal as soon as we can, we can't have a situation where the NHS gets overloaded and people die who could otherwise be treated. People dying outside hospitals is not something we can tolerate.

And that is the concern at the moment - even if Omicron is less fatal, the sheer number of people who are going to get it mean that more people will be hospitalised.

Personally I think we just need to get over this wave, potentially with restrictions, and then the pandemic will be basically over and we can go back to normal by summer

Until The next wave or variant. That’s what’s been said all along. Just a few weeks to save the NHS, just do this that etc, vaccines are the way out etc etc. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Is that the experts who said without a shadow of a doubt we would have 100k cases by the end of August if measures like wearing face masks weren't kept in place or different ones?

That was one expert, he didn't say without a shadow of a doubt, and he later owned up to being wrong. When have the covid deniers ever admitted to being wrong?

[CanadaSaint]

I’m not meaning to disrespect people’s views that are based on their own personal ideologies. We all have those - whether they’re about politics, religion, football or any other life stuff. I asked the question because I think it impacts how you see these debates - and the ways in which people express their views - if you’ve lost someone really important to you as a result of Covid. It can be frustrating (not really the right word) to see ideology overpowering painful personal reality that you wouldn’t wish on anyone.

But I guess that’s what this forum is all about - for good and for bad. Very few, if any, of us have stood underneath a Premier League crossbar with gloves on, and very few of us have had a half chance in a professional six yard box, but we still stick our five eggs in every week. I suspect that we’d see things a bit differently if we’d had those experiences.

[RedArmy]

5 hours ago, JRM said:

It amazes me that some people think that this is OK , the passports are a disgusting intrusion on your liberty and do nothing to stop the spread of the virus

 

 

Yeah but it’s for “the greater good”
 

🐑 🐑🐑

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He had it didn’t he? I can’t believe that he’d leave him out for something that is a matter of personal choice 

I think he did, yes. 

On the second part, I could well believe it. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

15 minutes ago, egg said:

We need to ride this out for sure, but unless you're advocating a lock down, what's the solution? 

There's still a lot of uncertainty about how many people will get seriously ill from the new variant. I'm not in the group who are desperate for an immediate lockdown but if the NHS is going to get overloaded, then we'll have to.

To answer Turkish's point, this variant is so transmissible that everyone is basically going to get it. Vaccines + natural immunity through infection mean covid won't be as strong against our defences in future. Just like how Spanish Flu was a huge killer during/after WW1 but now it's descendents are largely harmless because our bodies have had it so many times and built immunity.

That's not to say that previous lockdowns were a waste because they allowed us to wait for vaccines, protect the NHS and wait for this potentially milder variant

Edited 17 December, 2021 by Ex Lion Tamer

[RedArmy]

2 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

this variant is so transmissible that everyone is basically going to get it. 

 

Hyperbole. 
 

You’d need 180,000 infections every day for the next year before “everyone is basically going to get it” 

Seems fairly unlikely doesn’t it? 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

I’m not meaning to disrespect people’s views that are based on their own personal ideologies. We all have those - whether they’re about politics, religion, football or any other life stuff. I asked the question because I think it impacts how you see these debates - and the ways in which people express their views - if you’ve lost someone really important to you as a result of Covid. It can be frustrating (not really the right word) to see ideology overpowering painful personal reality that you wouldn’t wish on anyone.

But I guess that’s what this forum is all about - for good and for bad. Very few, if any, of us have stood underneath a Premier League crossbar with gloves on, and very few of us have had a half chance in a professional six yard box, but we still stick our five eggs in every week. I suspect that we’d see things a bit differently if we’d had those experiences.

I respect of all that, and I think it fair to say that we all have and are entitled to have, a different view on this. People lose my respect though when they seek to dictate what others should do believing their view to be the only one that matters. They're like covid Jehovah's witnesses. 

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

There's still a lot of uncertainty about how many people will get seriously ill from the new variant. I'm not in the group who are desperate for an immediate lockdown but if the NHS is going to get overloaded, then we'll have to.

To answer Turkish's point, this variant is so transmissible that everyone is basically going to get it. Vaccines + natural immunity through infection mean covid won't be as strong against our defences in future. Just like how Spanish Flu was a huge killer during/after WW1 but now it's descendents are largely harmless because our bodies have had it so many times and built immunity.

That's not to say that previous lockdowns were a waste because they allowed us to wait for vaccines, protect the NHS and wait for this potentially milder variant

I'm not sure we can lockdown again, financially and Mental health wise, it'll be crippling. There'll also be defiance on a huge scale I think, something not helped by the antics of this government and the media portrayal of it. 

On the second point, there'll come a point where there's a super transmissible variant that's so mild it is our solution. Whether this is it remains to be seen though. 

[Dorchester Saint]

24 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He had it didn’t he? I can’t believe that he’d leave him out for something that is a matter of personal choice 

Apparently so, but it depends on the clubs stance I guess. His calf is taking an awful long time to heal. Like I said, just throwing it out there. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

3 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Hyperbole. 
 

You’d need 180,000 infections every day for the next year before “everyone is basically going to get it” 

Seems fairly unlikely doesn’t it? 

Well herd immunity is around 70% if I remember right. One way or another covid is going to move from pandemic to endemic by enough people getting it and building immunity. How quickly we get there depends on how transmissible this or a future variant is, how much it/they cause serious disease, how many people have already had it, whether pressure on the NHS forces lockdown(s), and the extent people tire of being cautious and decide to face the music.

I honestly think we're not far away from people being widely infected in large numbers but who knows, even the experts don't

[Ex Lion Tamer]

12 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm not sure we can lockdown again, financially and Mental health wise, it'll be crippling. There'll also be defiance on a huge scale I think, something not helped by the antics of this government and the media portrayal of it. 

On the second point, there'll come a point where there's a super transmissible variant that's so mild it is our solution. Whether this is it remains to be seen though. 

I agree, most importantly loads of older people I know seem to be deciding they need to live their lives now and can't be bothered with caution. There might have to be a lockdown to protect the NHS but it will only be delaying the inevitable really

Edited 17 December, 2021 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Dorchester Saint said:

Apparently so, but it depends on the clubs stance I guess. His calf is taking an awful long time to heal. Like I said, just throwing it out there. 

There is definitely something not right, especially given he’s played for Scotland whist “injured”

[JRM]

Interesting coverage of the election result assuming the big loss for the Conservatives is down to Boris and the Christmas party / sleaze, virtually no mention of the winning party Liberal Democrats who notably were the only party who said they would not back vaccine passports. 

Edited 18 December, 2021 by JRM

[JRM]

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I'm hesitant to wade in here having not read the whole thread but isn't the point that while most of us would agree that we need to get back to normal as soon as we can, we can't have a situation where the NHS gets overloaded and people die who could otherwise be treated. People dying outside hospitals is not something we can tolerate.

And that is the concern at the moment - even if Omicron is less fatal, the sheer number of people who are going to get it mean that more people will be hospitalised.

Personally I think we just need to get over this wave, potentially with restrictions, and then the pandemic will be basically over and we can go back to normal by summer

Watch out for how they use the stats to portray Omicron as overwhelming hospitals, they record some as covid admissions even if they are not in because of covid , misleading stats all over the place 

 

 

[whelk]

All these cunts boasting about not being scared stayed in posting on a forum tonight, Us real men were out drinking.

[whelk]

35 minutes ago, JRM said:

Interesting coverage of the election result assuming the big loss for the Conservatives is down to Boris and the Christmas party / sleaze, virtually no mention of the winning party Liberal Democrats who notably were the only party who said they would not back vaccine passports. 

Yeah that was it mate. Silencing the big issue for the electorate. 

[East Kent Saint]

7 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I'm hesitant to wade in here having not read the whole thread but isn't the point that while most of us would agree that we need to get back to normal as soon as we can, we can't have a situation where the NHS gets overloaded and people die who could otherwise be treated. People dying outside hospitals is not something we can tolerate.

And that is the concern at the moment - even if Omicron is less fatal, the sheer number of people who are going to get it mean that more people will be hospitalised.

Personally I think we just need to get over this wave, potentially with restrictions, and then the pandemic will be basically over and we can go back to normal by summer

They are now saying that Omicron is not a mild version of covid like South Africa said . So lockdown coming our way soon , rumoured to start after xmas weekend so Boris can say he didn't cancel xmas this year.

As to how much longer we will have to lead a restricted lifestyle it is estimated to last through 2022 and possibly into 2023 .

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Well herd immunity is around 70% if I remember right.

Then we're all doomed I tells ya!

Currently we have 89.4% of the population who have had one jab, 81.6% with two and 45.8% with three, so our 'herd immunity' must be broken.  sauce

93k positive new cases yesterday (up 38.6% on the last 7 days). 111 daily deaths (down 4.5% on the last 7 days).  900 hospital admissions (up 8.1% over the last 7 days but also includes people who had covid in the last 28 days no matter what they have been admitted for, which changed from 14 days on the 15th of December).

In general, the number of positive cases has been rising since early November (as you'd expect with all respiratory viruses during the winter), yet the daily death rate has been trending downwards over the same period of time (suggesting that the vaccines are stopping people from becoming seriously ill as predicted, but also that new treatments are more effective at preventing deaths).

One stat that is STILL NOT REPORTED is the vaccination status of those being admitted to hospital and those dying from (and with!) covid.  The single most important statistic right now and it is conveniently being ommited from the data sources and isn't freely available.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

7 hours ago, JRM said:

Watch out for how they use the stats to portray Omicron as overwhelming hospitals, they record some as covid admissions even if they are not in because of covid , misleading stats all over the place 

 

 

Well the problem is covid on top of all the other things. And ultimately if hospitals are overwhelmed they're overwhelmed.

It is true that we'd be in a better position if the Tories hadn't been underfunding the NHS for the last decade

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I agree, most importantly loads of older people I know seem to be deciding they need to live their lives now and can't be bothered with caution. There might have to be a lockdown to protect the NHS but it will only be delaying the inevitable really

Covid passports to enter hospitals would avoid a lockdown  

[Ex Lion Tamer]

8 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Then we're all doomed I tells ya!

Currently we have 89.4% of the population who have had one jab, 81.6% with two and 45.8% with three, so our 'herd immunity' must be broken.  sauce

93k positive new cases yesterday (up 38.6% on the last 7 days). 111 daily deaths (down 4.5% on the last 7 days).  900 hospital admissions (up 8.1% over the last 7 days but also includes people who had covid in the last 28 days no matter what they have been admitted for, which changed from 14 days on the 15th of December).

In general, the number of positive cases has been rising since early November (as you'd expect with all respiratory viruses during the winter), yet the daily death rate has been trending downwards over the same period of time (suggesting that the vaccines are stopping people from becoming seriously ill as predicted, but also that new treatments are more effective at preventing deaths).

One stat that is STILL NOT REPORTED is the vaccination status of those being admitted to hospital and those dying from (and with!) covid.  The single most important statistic right now and it is conveniently being ommited from the data sources and isn't freely available.

The vaccines are only 90% reliable so we all need the super immunity that comes from having had the virus as well as being vaccinated

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

The vaccines are only 90% reliable so we all need the super immunity that comes from having had the virus as well as being vaccinated

And yet we can't get the 'super immunity' we need (made up bollocks, but that's another story!) if we keep locking everyone up and not exposing them to the virus....

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, East Kent Saint said:

They are now saying that Omicron is not a mild version of covid like South Africa said . So lockdown coming our way soon , rumoured to start after xmas weekend so Boris can say he didn't cancel xmas this year.

As to how much longer we will have to lead a restricted lifestyle it is estimated to last through 2022 and possibly into 2023 .

Who is saying this?  I cannot find anything definitive that states that anywhere - plenty of 'we're not sure, we need more data' (and rightly so), but no definitive statements.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And yet we can't get the 'super immunity' we need (made up bollocks, but that's another story!) if we keep locking everyone up and not exposing them to the virus....

It's a question of how fast we can go without the NHS being overwhelmed, but we're getting there

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, Ex Lion Tamer said:

It's a question of how fast we can go without the NHS being overwhelmed, but we're getting there

Horseshit!

This is a reasonable article that explains herd immunity through vaccination.

What you're suggesting is that we won't achieve herd immunity unless / until the population (or 90% of it) has had covid and has achieved 'super immunity', which, frankly is laughable.

Did we achieve herd immunity from measles because 90% of the population contracted it?  What about mumps, rubella, TB? 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Horseshit!

This is a reasonable article that explains herd immunity through vaccination.

What you're suggesting is that we won't achieve herd immunity unless / until the population (or 90% of it) has had covid and has achieved 'super immunity', which, frankly is laughable.

Did we achieve herd immunity from measles because 90% of the population contracted it?  What about mumps, rubella, TB? 

Those illnesses are different because the vaccines are 100% effective. Coronaviruses and flu mutate all the time, meaning we have to keep updating the vaccines (like we do with flu) and accept getting infected on a regular basis (like the common cold, which is causes by other coronaviruses)