Saints 1-1 Brighton - Match Thread

[Charlie Wayman]

12 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

It was obviously disappointing losing 2 points at the death but to heap blame on McCarthy and JWP for what happened is over the top , the ball could have gone anywhere after it hit the wall , Mc C or JWP could have kept it out and been the hero ! or the reserve keeper could have faced the free kick and let it in etc We seem to getting a bit desparate as fans ....

The other 28,000 fans at SMS yesterday who don't agree with you are obviously wrong. 

[LiberalCommunist]

The thing that is hurting me is, BHA are a pretty decent team, but that first 45 is probably their worst half of football since their promotion. They were abysmal. Their patched up team had no cohesion and no threat. We managed to create a really well worked goal from some good individual skill, and then contrive to fuck it up. The mid week game had a similar tone. Leicester are a good team, but they were awful, especially in the first half. So we are doing something right in making teams look bad. But we are definitely doing a lot wrong, in missing all these really important opportunities. Two winnable games now becomes, an away game to inform Arsenal. Suddenly, from having a near full pick, our squad is absolutely shredded. In one game we've lost our spine, and also are going to have to chuck a kid in goal. Its too early to say crisis, but we are lurching from blind faith to incompetence. Today is the first time I'm really starting to doubt Ralph. A tale of two half's, I look forward to reading his biography in a couple years time to dissect what actually went wrong! 

[Teddeer]

39 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

It was obviously disappointing losing 2 points at the death but to heap blame on McCarthy and JWP for what happened is over the top , the ball could have gone anywhere after it hit the wall , Mc C or JWP could have kept it out and been the hero ! or the reserve keeper could have faced the free kick and let it in etc We seem to getting a bit desparate as fans ....

For me the decision by JWP to park himself on the line for that free kick was ridiculous and cost us the victory.

[egg]

50 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

It was obviously disappointing losing 2 points at the death but to heap blame on McCarthy and JWP for what happened is over the top , the ball could have gone anywhere after it hit the wall , Mc C or JWP could have kept it out and been the hero ! or the reserve keeper could have faced the free kick and let it in etc We seem to getting a bit desparate as fans ....

Not sure where you're coming from there. McCarthy should have signalled to come off or gone down to get the message over, and JWP shouldn't have put himself where he'd play their players onside. I can't see there's even a discussion to he had to be honest. 

[East Kent Saint]

15 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

For me the decision by JWP to park himself on the line for that free kick was ridiculous and cost us the victory.

He ran back when the kick was taken and rushed out again , hardly parking on the line !

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, East Kent Saint said:

He ran back when the kick was taken and rushed out again , hardly parking on the line !

Did he play Maupay onside or not? That is the only relevant point.

[East Kent Saint]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Not sure where you're coming from there. McCarthy should have signalled to come off or gone down to get the message over, and JWP shouldn't have put himself where he'd play their players onside. I can't see there's even a discussion to he had to be honest. 

He probably tried to stay on to protect the young reserve keeper plus in the past keepers have played on with others taking the goal kicks or in extremes a broken neck !

[East Kent Saint]

Just now, Teddeer said:

Did he play Maupay onside or not? That is the only relevant point.

Who knew where the ball was breaking to ? When he saw in coming down in the area he ran back out …..

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, East Kent Saint said:

Who knew where the ball was breaking to ? When he saw in coming down in the area he ran back out …..

It was idiotic. He might have rushed out but he still left Maupay onside. What was he going to do had the Brighton player lifted that free kick over the wall? Nothing because it would have just flown over his head. Ludicrous.

[egg]

4 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

He probably tried to stay on to protect the young reserve keeper plus in the past keepers have played on with others taking the goal kicks or in extremes a broken neck !

Blimey. You're defending the indefensible. 

[East Kent Saint]

Wolves thought they’d got a point as well yesterday but the ball came down nicely for Origi …..

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, East Kent Saint said:

Wolves thought they’d got a point as well yesterday but the ball came down nicely for Origi …..

Does that have any relevance to our incompetence?

[East Kent Saint]

Look my heart sank when 2 points suddenly went out the window as well but ….

[East Kent Saint]

Just now, Teddeer said:

Does that have any relevance to our incompetence?

It’s football , that’s what happens….

[egg]

4 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Wolves thought they’d got a point as well yesterday but the ball came down nicely for Origi …..

This is a shit wind up mate. Give it a rest, please. 

[whelk]

We should be burning JWP shirts

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

other than subs, not sure any manager can dictate what happens in the dying moments. By and large, a managers power to dictate what happens on the pitch is overestimated. All the handwaving and shouting is a load of bollocks,

The manager sets the culture around the club. Watch spurs all or nothing where Jose is on at them day after day to be bastards and stop being “soft”. Fergie didn’t shout from the sidelines instructing players  to get into the refs ear, it was a result of the win at all costs mentality that was the culture at the club. 3 years is long enough to impose your mentality, your values in the club. Ours are nice manager, nice boys, playing nice and fairly. Maybe proper behaviour and standards, but you’ll end up with what we have. A bunch of fucking son in laws mincing around. 

Edited 5 December, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Fitzhugh Fella]

2 hours ago, adriansfc said:

I find it odd how many fans (across most clubs) says can't blame the manager for that, can't legislate for a player doing that etc. It seems pointless to focus on isolated incidents with someone who has been at the club 3 years. 

We'll get lucky or defend well and win 1-0 sometimes. But more often as proven time and again, we'll lose leads. We aren't set up to last 90 mins. Ralph saying you can't expect to dominate 90 mins is not an answer to always going from great to dogshit over halftime. In our ten years back in the premier League we've had plenty of games where we've put in decent performances over the full game. I don't remember such a first half second half contrast in all my time supporting saints. 

Its shit to watch as you can't get that excited about taking a lead or first half performance. We all know what's coming. Players aren't unfit but the tactics don't help them. Our lack of clinical finishing doesn't help them. Our rubbish goalkeeper doesn't help them. Is it too much to ask that just once we might be 2-0 up in a match? Switch to a 433 to help the central midfield a bit? 

I like Ralph in many ways but I find watching us fairly miserable now. Under Pellegrino/Hughes we were just rubbish, so we've improved, but we've never been more predictable. Most excitement and football memories come from late drama. We haven't scored from open play in the final 30. We rarely look like scoring second half. So fans know there's no hope as the game goes on. Our one late goal was a penalty at St James part to save a draw when we should have had the win wrapped up. Have we scored many late goals under Ralph at all? I don't remember many last season. 

I hope this match is a massive wake up call to him. It'd be great to think he could learn from mistakes and improve as a manager. Especially if he can ever be given some funds for a proper keeper and half decent no10. But it does seem hard to imagine it being any different now. This isn't a possession side that can manage the game and save energy. So any wins are going to be painfully clinging on. 

 

Spot on. I know it’s better than it was under the 2 Ps but I no longer look forward to a game at SMS, knowing in all likelihood I will be walking home under a cloud. 

[david in sweden]

4 hours ago, JRM said:

Couple more points; 

Just like Wednesday v Leicester there were lots of empty seats. Pricing is wrong in my opinion. 

Gutted a fan didn't manage to get on and take out Maupay with a clothesline wrestling move at the end,  what a prick celebrating like that 

There are rarely big crowds for midweek games (especially) with late kick-offs.     It's the travel time to-and-from that presents most problems.  

OK  if you live in So'ton and can get yourself to the ground on public transport or by car, but quite a few fans live outside the city, and some even further 

out in the county, and finishing work then travelling in is almost impossible, especially if you are dependent on trains, which may end up being cancelled.

( Noted: those Albion fans who were relying on a quick trip  back to Brighton ended up being re-directed via Clapham - and then needing to change trains).

 

Many of the Saturday crowds include schoolkids,  and even for those who are season-ticket holders it can still present domestic problems ....(example)

.....Who stays home with younger siblings - when only one parent can travel in? ,  and at this time Covid may also play a role in the decision-making. 

There may be a  minority of disappointed fans who stay away periodically - in protest,  but overall I think they are very few .

 

I  think the question you raised about pricing is quite another issue  - and most often expensive for those who are unable to attend SMS regularly. 

 

[East Kent Saint]

40 minutes ago, egg said:

This is a shit wind up mate. Give it a rest, please. 

Brentford nearly get 3 points but ….. still on 16 pts with Saints ! Ok I give up now 😀

Edited 5 December, 2021 by East Kent Saint

[Chez]

21 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The manager sets the culture around the club. Watch spurs all or nothing where Jose is on at them day after day to be bastards and stop being “soft”. Fergie didn’t shout from the sidelines instructing players  to get into the refs ear, it was a result of the win at all costs mentality that was the culture at the club. 3 years is long enough to impose your mentality, your values in the club. Ours are nice manager, nice boys, playing nice and fairly. Maybe proper behaviour and standards, but you’ll end up with what we have. A bunch of fucking son in laws mincing around. 

don't get me wrong, I am not defending Ralph, I am just saying that football managers are not conductors of a game. Their influence on proceeding is limited. Every goal and result is not entirely down to a manager. Tactics, instructions and subs have a bearing, but it is players that play the game. 

Are we too nice? McCarthy time wastes, we have defenders that foul and midfielders that take tactical yellows and forwards that make the most of physical contact. What are they not doing that you'd like to see more of? 

 

[Chez]

9 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Spot on. I know it’s better than it was under the 2 Ps but I no longer look forward to a game at SMS, knowing in all likelihood I will be walking home under a cloud. 

We ain't very good, and we lose a lot of games, but still better to watch than Puel's teams. That said, despite the budget constraints, there is no reason why we shouldn't want more. Being better than Puel should not be the limits to our aspirations. Lots of managers out there. Hope we are looking at a few and at least wondering if they might improve us if we make a change.

[Teddeer]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

don't get me wrong, I am not defending Ralph, I am just saying that football managers are not conductors of a game. Their influence on proceeding is limited. Every goal and result is not entirely down to a manager. Tactics, instructions and subs have a bearing, but it is players that play the game. 

Are we too nice? McCarthy time wastes, we have defenders that foul and midfielders that take tactical yellows and forwards that make the most of physical contact. What are they not doing that you'd like to see more of? 

 

I think we are too naive rather than too nice. Yesterday, with Brighton down to 10 men and us leading one nil, we should have been letting the ball do the work, playing possession football, making Brighton's tired players chase and leaving them feeling beaten. Instead we capitulate, panic give them a sliver of hope and lose two vital points. Ralph is the manager and him and his coaches should be instilling this mentality, this ruthlessness into the team but we continue to make the same tactical mistakes.

[Billy the Kidd]

5 minutes ago, Chez said:

We ain't very good, and we lose a lot of games, but still better to watch than Puel's teams. That said, despite the budget constraints, there is no reason why we shouldn't want more. Being better than Puel should not be the limits to our aspirations. Lots of managers out there. Hope we are looking at a few and at least wondering if they might improve us if we make a change.

A point here, this season we aren’t losing many games, seem to be drawing lots more than last year, where we did lose a lot.

Drawing and not losing, which we likely would have done last season, could be a helping hand keeping us up this year.

[RedWillie]

5 hours ago, rallyboy said:

I love those club emails - 'Tell us about your matchday experience'.... 😨

Mate, you don't really want us to tell you what we thought.

They got my response with both barrells.

[Dellman]

14 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

A point here, this season we aren’t losing many games, seem to be drawing lots more than last year, where we did lose a lot.

Drawing and not losing, which we likely would have done last season, could be a helping hand keeping us up this year.

WE are better than last year. Most of the time we are really very good, often dominating matches--till half time. The tea

[Dellman]

Just now, Dellman said:

WE are better than last year. Most of the time we are really very good, often dominating matches--till half time. The team improvements have been made without investment from above which is a management achievement. Yesterday's disappointment shouldn't blind us to the progress.

 

[Chez]

 

9 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

I think we are too naive rather than too nice. Yesterday, with Brighton down to 10 men and us leading one nil, we should have been letting the ball do the work, playing possession football, making Brighton's tired players chase and leaving them feeling beaten. Instead we capitulate, panic give them a sliver of hope and lose two vital points. Ralph is the manager and him and his coaches should be instilling this mentality, this ruthlessness into the team but we continue to make the same tactical mistakes.

Yep, hacking it away/into the corners creates a panic and simply turns over possession. We should be keeping the ball, be composed, pass it and make them chase, but then again, JWP tried to keep the ball, passing it rather than hacking it down the line...and that was exactly what killed us. 

Not sure what the right tactic is, but we certainly are not the best at seeing a game out and burning ten minutes without offering much in the way of chances.

 

 

 

[Chez]

11 minutes ago, Dellman said:

WE are better than last year. Most of the time we are really very good, often dominating matches--till half time. The tea

Agreed. It's bizarre how bad we are in second halves. That wasn't the case yesterday. We continued to play quite well, but that's unusual. I wonder if there is now an awareness at the club of this second half drop in standards and all the points dropped? 

[egg]

16 minutes ago, Dellman said:

 

After 15 games last season we were 9th, had scored 25 goals and sat on 25 points. In what way is 15th place, scoring 14 goals and only having 16 points better? 

[stknowle]

20 minutes ago, Chez said:

 

Yep, hacking it away/into the corners creates a panic and simply turns over possession. We should be keeping the ball, be composed, pass it and make them chase, but then again, JWP tried to keep the ball, passing it rather than hacking it down the line...and that was exactly what killed us. 

Not sure what the right tactic is, but we certainly are not the best at seeing a game out and burning ten minutes without offering much in the way of chances.

 

 

 

Play keep ball and not fuck it up. What he tried to do was the right thing and it wasn't difficult. He ballsed it up. Noted though as I think you said above, tiredness may be a factor - him and Romeu are/were relied upon too heavily and asked to do too much. That's on Ralph.

[Lighthouse]

27 minutes ago, egg said:

After 15 games last season we were 9th, had scored 25 goals and sat on 25 points. In what way is 15th place, scoring 14 goals and only having 16 points better? 

I think we’re talking overall, as opposed to the first 15 games. The fact that three of our supposed better players from last season can barely get on the pitch for mid table teams speaks volumes IMO.

[CB Fry]

52 minutes ago, Dellman said:

WE are better than last year. Most of the time we are really very good, often dominating matches--till half time. The tea

I find the way that this post tails off into nothing halfway through is an excellent metaphor for our performances and prospects this season.

 

[egg]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

I think we’re talking overall, as opposed to the first 15 games. The fact that three of our supposed better players from last season can barely get on the pitch for mid table teams speaks volumes IMO.

If we're looking at a year ago, the first 15 games of last season is surely the comparison. We're well down on those levels. If we're talking about earlier in 2020, we're going back 18 months to 2 years to the latter half of the 2019/20 season and that's a bit of a pointless comparison imo. 

However you cut it, we're worse than we were a year ago. By miles. 

[Chez]

1 minute ago, egg said:

If we're looking at a year ago, the first 15 games of last season is surely the comparison. We're well down on those levels. If we're talking about earlier in 2020, we're going back 18 months to 2 years to the latter half of the 2019/20 season and that's a bit of a pointless comparison imo. 

However you cut it, we're worse than we were a year ago. By miles. 

is the first 15 this season better than the last 15 of last season? I don't know. But that seems like a reasonable thing to compare.

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

If we're looking at a year ago, the first 15 games of last season is surely the comparison. We're well down on those levels. If we're talking about earlier in 2020, we're going back 18 months to 2 years to the latter half of the 2019/20 season and that's a bit of a pointless comparison imo. 

However you cut it, we're worse than we were a year ago. By miles. 

A year ago, yes. Six months ago, unequivocally no. It seems a rather pedantic thing to argue over; Dellman claimed were better than last year, not at this time last year. I think that’s reasonable if we’re including losing 18 of the last 23 games or whatever that dreadful run was.

[egg]

14 minutes ago, Chez said:

is the first 15 this season better than the last 15 of last season? I don't know. But that seems like a reasonable thing to compare.

In the last 15 games of last season we scored 18 and got 14 points. 

[egg]

14 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

A year ago, yes. Six months ago, unequivocally no. It seems a rather pedantic thing to argue over; Dellman claimed were better than last year, not at this time last year. I think that’s reasonable if we’re including losing 18 of the last 23 games or whatever that dreadful run was.

It ain't a pedantic thing - we're 15 games into this season and a year ago we were 15 games into last season. We were doing much better then than we are now. Any suggestion that we're better now than we were a year ago is wrong, we're much worse. 

[Chez]

Just now, egg said:

In the last 15 games of last season we scored 18 and got 14 points. 

so, no real improvement points wise. I think we might be playing a little better, but 30 points from the last 30 games has to be a concern. 

[Whitey Grandad]

Last season was a freak. No crowds involved.

[Lighthouse]

12 minutes ago, egg said:

It ain't a pedantic thing - we're 15 games into this season and a year ago we were 15 games into last season. We were doing much better then than we are now. Any suggestion that we're better now than we were a year ago is wrong, we're much worse. 

But that’s not what anyone is arguing. Like I said, we were better this time last year but not six months ago. Clearly, we had more points after 15 games but all we have to do now is not lose 18 of the remaining 23 and we’re better overall. There is no reason to think we will repeat last seasons drastic hero to zero drop in form.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

It ain't a pedantic thing - we're 15 games into this season and a year ago we were 15 games into last season. We were doing much better then than we are now. Any suggestion that we're better now than we were a year ago is wrong, we're much worse. 

This season was always going to be a slow-and-steady-wins-the-race job, frustrating as it is. We lost a striker who was world class when fit, and invested the money in building squad depth rather than someone of equivalent ability. That means we shouldn't collapse when we get a few injuries (helped by a less hectic fixture schedule), but it does mean we're finding it harder to score goals and get the three-pointers on the board

[stknowle]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

A year ago, yes. Six months ago, unequivocally no. It seems a rather pedantic thing to argue over; Dellman claimed were better than last year, not at this time last year. I think that’s reasonable if we’re including losing 18 of the last 23 games or whatever that dreadful run was.

Yeah and he also referenced "The tea" alluding to it maybe having an influence on our second half performances. 

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, egg said:

If we're looking at a year ago, the first 15 games of last season is surely the comparison. We're well down on those levels. If we're talking about earlier in 2020, we're going back 18 months to 2 years to the latter half of the 2019/20 season and that's a bit of a pointless comparison imo. 

However you cut it, we're worse than we were a year ago. By miles. 

Isn't the most accurate comparison how we did against the same teams last season? 

[egg]

14 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Isn't the most accurate comparison how we did against the same teams last season? 

Probably. I just saw comment that we're better than last year so made the point that we're in fact worse than we were at the same point last year. 

[Bad Wolf]

On 04/12/2021 at 17:05, Pamplemousse said:

Come on. Brighton did fuck all in that game. They were shite.

They did nothing...Except score the same amount of goals as us. So I'm just struggling to figure out how they didn't deserve anything from the game.

[Mystic Force]

I only really have one comment after watching this

Oh FFS

[LiberalCommunist]

Still raw. Why is this taking so long.

[Sunglasses Ron]

37 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

Still raw. Why is this taking so long.

... because it was a Sunday league style balls up.

I can't remember the last time I was so annoyed at a Saints result.

[david in sweden]

23 hours ago, Chez said:

so, no real improvement points wise. I think we might be playing a little better, but 30 points from the last 30 games has to be a concern. 

Agreed on that point Chez, but last season's start was exceptional for Saints - by any stretch of the imagination. 

16 points from the first 15 games is still better than most of the starts since we retuned to the Prem.

Our biggest concern may not rest with our defensive performances (still one of the best in the bottom half), but our abysmal scoring record so far.

We weren't that good  last season - even with a half-fit Danny Ings - but we must get past the barrier of only a managing one goal a game.