Liverpool 4-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Many of you have missed the whole point of Ralph's team selection and set-up for this match. It is quite obvious that he set us up to stop Mane & Sala from scoring and he succeeded, they rarely had a sniff so what are you complaining about?

They didn't score, but they were involved in two of the goals. Mane's beautiful nutmeg pass set up Richardson to make a simple pass for the first goal. Mane, unchallenged, heads in what might have been the second, but was a fraction offside (if at all). Salah sets up Jota on a plate for the second, his badly cleared cross led to the third. They created other chances for Jota and themselves. A break from our corner saw Salah run half the length of the pitch with the ball, and then fluff his cross to an unmarked Jota with Mane stood behind him. How they didn't score I will never know (MOTD 8;30 on the iplayer). They ran us ragged in the first half at times, just like they do all teams. Mane's curling shot tipped over the bar led to the corner from which they scored. When Jota puts the ball over from a Robertson cross, when scoring looked easier, Salah was stood right behind him and would have had tap in. 

The intention might have been there, but the idea that the formation stifled Mane and Salah is bullshit.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

That first sentence is pretty arrogant if you don’t mind me saying. In fact your near messianic defence of Ralph is a bit strange too. He is far from perfect. 

Very arrogant. He’s been very arrogant for a while and I’ve been pointing it out as have others. Good people are realising “People like me” = people who know best, better than you lot. 

[TWar]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

That first sentence is pretty arrogant if you don’t mind me saying. In fact your near messianic defence of Ralph is a bit strange too. He is far from perfect. 

I merely ment the club are clearly more close to the "Ralph is doing well, give him time", like myself, people than the "Ralph out" people.  Not me specifically. 

And its not a "Messianic" defence, I just think that the manager is much better than the squad at his disposal and therefore more often than not player error or lack of quality is to blame more than managerial error. Especially when playing one of the best teams in the world.

Edited 28 November, 2021 by TWar

[TWar]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

he was poor. I like what I have seen in recent weeks, but he was rubbish yesterday. Strikers get cut far too much slack, whilst defenders and keepers get murdered if they make an error. There was a situation yesterday when we caught them on the break. Amstrong was on the ball and ran into the box on the left side and from there he needs to set up Broja or shoot and score. He completely fucks up and there isn't even a shot on goal. It was woeful. Stuff like this needs calling out in the same poor defending is. There needs to be balance when criticising players and performance, and thats why I have mentioned him a few times on this thread and also why I've called out anyone mentioning McCarthy who wasn't really at fault at all. 

I think the time you described if I remember correctly was a very good challenge rather than him messing up. The one he really should have put away was the Tella assist chance but it is hard to keep focus when you are feeding off scraps.

[LiberalCommunist]

I expected nothing from this game. Even on a lucky day, Mason would have screwed us on the VAR monitor. 

But, what this defeat has done, is highlight just how big that missed opportunity of last week was. We cannot afford to regress back into those sorts of results. We'll be entrenched in a relegation battle by the turn of the year, and it will look very bleak if we cannot score, and are conceding such cheap goals. 

As a founder member of the Ralph is great club, I'm sure his jekyll and hyde tactics will see us batter Leicester and Bha in the next few days. 

Zero from the next two is now unthinkable. 

[Chez]

10 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think the time you described if I remember correctly was a very good challenge rather than him messing up. The one he really should have put away was the Tella assist chance but it is hard to keep focus when you are feeding off scraps.

Good challenge or not, he had control of the situation, but wasn't good enough to take advantage, and fucked up allowing the defender the opportunity to make a challenge. It was poor play. You need ruthless strikers that are clinical in those situations. Get your feet right, cut inside and smash it in the corner or make the pass and let Broja do it. 

Yep, the Tella created opportunity was one I expect a striker at this level to take. He completely missed the target on his swinger, then the second chance was much harder.

he had another good opportunity in the first, when Livramento cut it back but his shot, although in the corner, was tame.  The long and short of it is, he has some good attributes, has done quite well, but to have any chance at Anfield you need strikers that score when that solitary chance comes. Ings did that for us. Not sure Armstrong will ever be as good.

[stknowle]

26 minutes ago, Chez said:

Good challenge or not, he had control of the situation, but wasn't good enough to take advantage, and fucked up allowing the defender the opportunity to make a challenge. It was poor play. You need ruthless strikers that are clinical in those situations. Get your feet right, cut inside and smash it in the corner or make the pass and let Broja do it. 

Yep, the Tella created opportunity was one I expect a striker at this level to take. He completely missed the target on his swinger, then the second chance was much harder.

he had another good opportunity in the first, when Livramento cut it back but his shot, although in the corner, was tame.  The long and short of it is, he has some good attributes, has done quite well, but to have any chance at Anfield you need strikers that score when that solitary chance comes. Ings did that for us. Not sure Armstrong will ever be as good.

He should've passed it to Broja after it - very fortunately - bounced back to him after the initial misplaced shot. Easy open goal for Broja from there.

 

[macca155]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

 

Lyanco inspires zero confidence. What the fuck was he doing for their first goal?

The second goal last week was largely down to him and looking at their fourth yesterday, I wonder if he is partly to blame too. If he is meant to be playing zone, then he should be holding his position and then he wins an easy header. I might be being harsh here, as I don't know the instruction, but if you watch it side on, his defending is limp. 

I think that's a bit harsh. He was definitely the best of the three CHs yesterday, but obviously that isn't saying much.

I agree his positioning can be iffy but as you say that may be his instructions. However his anticipation and interceptions are good. I guess we'll see of he develops the other aspects of his game.

A bigger culprit was Tino. His defending was shocking at times. Combine that with Bendarek woeful efforts, it is no surprise that Liverpool ripped us to shreds.

No way would Stephens have allowed that to go on. Hope he is fit soon.

[Chez]

Just now, macca155 said:

A bigger culprit was Tino. His defending was shocking at times.

he ball watches badly. He's good going forward, but I'm not convinced he is a very good defender. KWP is better in defensively and I am not sure we lose a huge amount offensively if KWP plays - he's been tremendous since he came to us, they both have, but I'd go with KWP.

[CanadaSaint]

10 minutes ago, Chez said:

he ball watches badly. He's good going forward, but I'm not convinced he is a very good defender. KWP is better in defensively and I am not sure we lose a huge amount offensively if KWP plays - he's been tremendous since he came to us, they both have, but I'd go with KWP.

Ralph has the ability to use his fullbacks/wingbacks in high-intensity roles on both sides of the pitch - very difficult to defend against (as we saw yesterday). With the arrival of Small, Ralph has squad depth on both sides. If Small is developing well, I'd have him on the bench and slot him in when less-pressured opportunity arrives.

I'm not suggesting that Ralph should tell his starters to empty their fuel tanks in the first half, but I'd certainly encourage them to be very aggressive - and I'd keep all of them on their natural side. He has several permutations if he needs to change things.

Like a lot of others, I'd still like to see him try the duo of KWP and Livramento on the right, but the one with the more defensive remit should be KWP because he doesn't "switch off" and ball-watch the way Tino does.

It's all come a bit fast for Tino, and I think he'd benefit from watching KWP for a couple of games.

[danjosaint]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

 

And its not a "Messianic" defence, I just think that the manager is much better than the squad 

Ha ha wtf, surely a very good manager can work with what he has at his disposal, this includes getting the basics right and getting the tiny details right, that shitshow first half was never going to work,  fans, pundits and ex pro's said the same before the game, there is something clearly amiss with the 2nd half issues and dropped points situation or is it all players mistakes? 

Edited 28 November, 2021 by danjosaint

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

Ha ha wtf, surely a very good manager can work with what he has at his disposal, this includes getting the basics right and getting the tiny details right, that shitshow first half was never going to work,  fans, pundits and ex pro's said the same before the game, there is something clearly amiss with the 2nd half issues and dropped points situation or is it all players mistakes? 

You can work with what you have, but obviously there is a limit to what is feasible based on playing resources. A top form Liverpool are well past that limit.

[captainchris]

3 hours ago, Chez said:

 

Lyanco inspires zero confidence. What the fuck was he doing for their first goal?

The second goal last week was largely down to him and looking at their fourth yesterday, I wonder if he is partly to blame too. If he is meant to be playing zone, then he should be holding his position and then he wins an easy header. I might be being harsh here, as I don't know the instruction, but if you watch it side on, his defending is limp. 

I don't think we were unlucky not to score, I think our strikers did a bad job.

I agree fully about Broja. He caused them big problems and he starts for me when fit.  The so called partnership of Armstrong and Che simply is not a thing. 

Whilst Broja does look more of a striker than the other two he was not aware of the opposition back line and was to be seen several times calling for pass when stood 2 yards offside.

This could be coached of course if we had any coaches!

Same with our back three which became a back two on numerous occasions as they took turns to be 30 yards up the pitch and out of position. Again coaching needed but again we dont have any coaching it transpires. 
 

[egg]

58 minutes ago, Scallysaint said:

It’s a quote from lock stock iirc

 

Close, that was from Snatch. Great line, great movie. 

[stknowle]

50 minutes ago, Chez said:

he ball watches badly. He's good going forward, but I'm not convinced he is a very good defender. KWP is better in defensively and I am not sure we lose a huge amount offensively if KWP plays - he's been tremendous since he came to us, they both have, but I'd go with KWP.

Not sure if anyone else has thought of or suggested this at all but I'd like to see us try KWP at right back and Tino ahead of him in right midfield.

[Teddeer]

40 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Not sure if anyone else has thought of or suggested this at all but I'd like to see us try KWP at right back and Tino ahead of him in right midfield.

Genius. Unfortunately Ralph refuses to see that Tino is actually quite limited defensively and is a ball watcher, never a good thing for a defender. He allowed Jota the tap in by completely failing to see what was happening around him. He'd be better in an advanced position ahead of KWP where his lack of defensive awareness would be less of an issue. 

40 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Not sure if anyone else has thought of or suggested this at all but I'd like to see us try KWP at right back and Tino ahead of him in right midfield.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

16 hours ago, TWar said:

Firstly, never said Villa were nailed on for relegation. I think they are a poor side, worse than us, and I stand by that. 

So if they finish above us, that’ll be down to poor management of our side then? 

[JustinSFC]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Close, that was from Snatch. Great line, great movie. 

Correct.

But, imo, Lock stock is the better film.

Still one of my favourite films.
 

 

[egg]

21 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Correct.

But, imo, Lock stock is the better film.

Still one of my favourite films.
 

 

Agreed. Lock stock in my top 10 of all time. Only 1 part of the film ages it...and did they get the bag?

[The Kraken]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Agreed. Lock stock in my top 10 of all time. Only 1 part of the film ages it...and did they get the bag?

Ok, go on, which part of the film ages it?!

[Dman]

8 hours ago, TWar said:

Luckily the club is run by people like me. I was one of the few calling for Ralph to remain at the back half of last season when a lot of others were calling for him to go. He did remain and now he's doing better. The people running the club won't be too bothered by a loss to Liverpool, I promise you that. A win is great, a loss is expected.

They won’t be too bothered about a loss to Liverpool as, as you said, it’s a bit of a free hit which were not expected to get anything from.
 

However, if you think they’re not bothered about losing 4-0, and that first half performance then you’re deluded. 

[JRM]

5 hours ago, Chez said:

 

Lyanco inspires zero confidence. What the fuck was he doing for their first goal?

The second goal last week was largely down to him and looking at their fourth yesterday, I wonder if he is partly to blame too. If he is meant to be playing zone, then he should be holding his position and then he wins an easy header. I might be being harsh here, as I don't know the instruction, but if you watch it side on, his defending is limp. 

I don't think we were unlucky not to score, I think our strikers did a bad job.

I agree fully about Broja. He caused them big problems and he starts for me when fit.  The so called partnership of Armstrong and Che simply is not a thing. 

The fact is only Norwich have scored fewer goals than us so far this season, we need far too many chances per goal and will mean we're dependent on clean sheets to win a match. 

[The Kraken]

“Luckily the club is run by people like me”

🤣

Wow.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

“Luckily the club is run by people like me”

🤣

Wow.

Taken a bit out of context there...

[Whitey Grandad]

I’ve been away for a few weeks but didn’t Arsenal also lose 4-0 to them?

[The Cat]

48 minutes ago, JRM said:

The fact is only Norwich have scored fewer goals than us so far this season, we need far too many chances per goal and will mean we're dependent on clean sheets to win a match. 

This is the main problem. Even yesterday we should have scored one or even 2. Obviously wouldn't have made a difference to the result but there are plenty of games where it will.

Our goals per shots ratio must be one of the worst in the league.

[TWar]

46 minutes ago, The Cat said:

This is the main problem. Even yesterday we should have scored one or even 2. Obviously wouldn't have made a difference to the result but there are plenty of games where it will.

Our goals per shots ratio must be one of the worst in the league.

Norwich is worst. Leeds and us are joint 2nd worst: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/chancenverwertung/wettbewerb/GB1

[Kermitzasaint]

On 28/11/2021 at 01:23, TWar said:

When we had lower quality managers.

Our manager is better than the team he manages, therefore most of the time we lose it is either individual mistakes (last week McCarthy shitting the bed) or just our opposition outplaying us in basically every position like today.

Sad thing here is that you're serious. A high quality manager chooses the best squad, formation and tactics to suit his team. Ralph's doesn't do any of those things.

[maysie]

8 hours ago, TWar said:

I think the time you described if I remember correctly was a very good challenge rather than him messing up. The one he really should have put away was the Tella assist chance but it is hard to keep focus when you are feeding off scraps.

He overun the ball and Van Duke got in. Bad touch. 

[Verbal Kint]

10 hours ago, Chez said:

he was poor. I like what I have seen in recent weeks, but he was rubbish yesterday. Strikers get cut far too much slack, whilst defenders and keepers get murdered if they make an error. There was a situation yesterday when we caught them on the break. Amstrong was on the ball and ran into the box on the left side and from there he needs to set up Broja or shoot and score. He completely fucks up and there isn't even a shot on goal. It was woeful. Stuff like this needs calling out in the same poor defending is. There needs to be balance when criticising players and performance, and thats why I have mentioned him a few times on this thread and also why I've called out anyone mentioning McCarthy who wasn't really at fault at all. 

This is a really good post and sums up my thoughts about this team too. In the vast majority of games this season we have dominated the first half and the game should have been dead and buried, and yet we go in level at half time or just with a 1 goal advantage. Because the opposition are still in the game, despite being outplayed, inevitably creates a momentum shift and results in them getting into the game more in the second half. Posters on here then blame Ralph for not changing things quickly enough, rather than crediting him for getting our set up right to start with, and don't call out the actual problem which is that our individual quality and decision making in the final third just isn't good enough, and that isn't Ralph's fault. He has nobody else in the squad that will really improve that.

Ralph is not perfect and he has acknowledged that he got it wrong on Saturday, but in most games this season he has set us up well and has put the team in a position to win the game in the first half. The reason we aren't winning them is because key players just don't produce when they need to in the key moments. Armstrong has his fans on here for some reason but he has not shown anything yet to suggest he is going to score goals regularly at this level - it will take me a while to forget how bad his composure was in that Watford game, a prime example of us dominating a game and not killing it early. We got away with it that day (and against Villa) but we didn't at Norwich.

Saturday was poor all round. Ralph got it wrong, but even then we had chances to get back into the game and couldn't convert them

[Toussaint]

11 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I’ve been away for a few weeks but didn’t Arsenal also lose 4-0 to them?

True, we both have really crap managers. But ours also adds a bit of lunacy to the mix for good measure. 

[JustinSFC]

56 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

True, we both have really crap managers. But ours also adds a bit of lunacy to the mix for good measure. 

I would, in all seriousness, swap Arteta for Hassenhutl right now if it was offered.

[TWar]

14 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So if they finish above us, that’ll be down to poor management of our side then? 

It'll depend on the situation. If they spend a packet in Jan their squad could improve, if we get another freak injury wave ours could drop. Failing either of those things though, yeah, if Villa finish above us the Gerrard will have done a better job than Ralph. If we both finish comfortably mid table though then I wouldn't say "poor management on our side" I'd say "good management on their side".

[TWar]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

True, we both have really crap managers. But ours also adds a bit of lunacy to the mix for good measure. 

Arteta isn't a crap manager, Arsenal are 5th in the league joint on points with 4th. Liverpool are just very good.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, JustinSFC said:

I would, in all seriousness, swap Arteta for Hassenhutl right now if it was offered.

You’d think Arteta will improve and become a very good manager in the future, I think Ralphie may have had his day in the sun.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Arteta isn't a crap manager, Arsenal are 5th in the league joint on points with 4th. Liverpool are just very good.

Was a tad tongue-in-cheek re Arteta old bean 

[TWar]

13 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Was a tad tongue-in-cheek re Arteta old bean 

Fair enough, it's hard to tell on here sometimes.

[Mattster]

21 hours ago, Chez said:

he was poor. I like what I have seen in recent weeks, but he was rubbish yesterday. Strikers get cut far too much slack, whilst defenders and keepers get murdered if they make an error. There was a situation yesterday when we caught them on the break. Amstrong was on the ball and ran into the box on the left side and from there he needs to set up Broja or shoot and score. He completely fucks up and there isn't even a shot on goal. It was woeful. Stuff like this needs calling out in the same poor defending is. There needs to be balance when criticising players and performance, and thats why I have mentioned him a few times on this thread and also why I've called out anyone mentioning McCarthy who wasn't really at fault at all. 

Agree completely. I don't want to be too down on the team, and perhaps a bit of this "grass is always greener", but we have had quite a few (at least three) first halves this season where we really should have put the game to bed with 2 or 3 goals, and we haven't been able to do it - even against some quite limited opposition. We've got away with it a couple of times, but it is a big problem IMO. We are really lacking a quality striker at the moment, and although I'm still hoping Armstrong comes good after his recent belter, I can't really think of any team in the prem (possible exception Norwich) with a weaker strike force. Even the supposedly weaker teams have at least one well proven striker, whether that's Wilson at Newcastle, Dennis, Toney, Zaha, Watkins and Ings, Cornet, Jimenez - the list goes on. I'd probably take any of those right now tbh.

[Piran]

I think this must be one of the most boring post-match threads ever, and that's saying something,considering the choices available! Do some posters carry on posting the same point over and over again for kicks? You know who you are...

For what it's worth, I watched the game, via hesgoal.com, and my view is that the Liverpool side that Saints faced are in a different league to us, figuratively if not factually, and it was just a game to get out of the way. My biggest gripe while watching was not formations, or selection, or Ralph's tactics, but the totally biased commentary on there. We can all see what's happening, but not all of us were wishing for that fifth goal, or dreaming of 'Pool getting back to the top of the league!

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Piran said:

I think this must be one of the most boring post-match threads ever, and that's saying something,considering the choices available! Do some posters carry on posting the same point over and over again for kicks? You know who you are...

For what it's worth, I watched the game, via hesgoal.com, and my view is that the Liverpool side that Saints faced are in a different league to us, figuratively if not factually, and it was just a game to get out of the way. My biggest gripe while watching was not formations, or selection, or Ralph's tactics, but the totally biased commentary on there. We can all see what's happening, but not all of us were wishing for that fifth goal, or dreaming of 'Pool getting back to the top of the league!

most post match threads are pretty boring to be honest with the stat/computer games experts on here doing their tactical analysis trying to out do everyone with their intricate knowledge of the nuances of a false 9 and XGs etc.

Anyway that aside i know what you're saying, Liverpool are probably the best attacking team in the premier league in not Europe so to get anything was always going to be highly unlikely. No shame losing at Anfield and sure they'll win games this season by more than 4 (in fact they already have) However Ralph didn't exactly set us up to give us a chance with a strange formation, he even admitted himself was a mistake, even though some are still trying to claim he did nothing wrong. Along with some schoolboy defending a very tough task was mission impossible within 30 minutes.

As we all know football is now set up simply for about 5-6 teams with the rest of us being fodder for them which is compounded by the fawning over their brilliance and their brilliant manager and their brilliant fans. I get sick to death with all these pathetic little weasels who have no attachment to Liverpool and the area boasting endlessly about their club on social media and how amazing they are. Liverpool fans at work from Exeter and Bury St Edmunds banging on about what an amazing performance it was, how it should have been 8. 

[wild-saint]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

most post match threads are pretty boring to be honest with the stat/computer games experts on here doing their tactical analysis trying to out do everyone with their intricate knowledge of the nuances of a false 9 and XGs etc.

Anyway that aside i know what you're saying, Liverpool are probably the best attacking team in the premier league in not Europe so to get anything was always going to be highly unlikely. No shame losing at Anfield and sure they'll win games this season by more than 4 (in fact they already have) However Ralph didn't exactly set us up to give us a chance with a strange formation, he even admitted himself was a mistake, even though some are still trying to claim he did nothing wrong. Along with some schoolboy defending a very tough task was mission impossible within 30 minutes.

As we all know football is now set up simply for about 5-6 teams with the rest of us being fodder for them which is compounded by the fawning over their brilliance and their brilliant manager and their brilliant fans. I get sick to death with all these pathetic little weasels who have no attachment to Liverpool and the area boasting endlessly about their club on social media and how amazing they are. Liverpool fans at work from Exeter and Bury St Edmunds banging on about what an amazing performance it was, how it should have been 8. 

The hotels in Liverpool this weekend were rammed to the rafters with tourists coming to town to see Liverpool. Apparently Liverpool at home they are full whilst Everton at home they are empty. Ground full of tourists!!!  Great city though apart from the defeat. 

[Turkish]

15 hours ago, wild-saint said:

The hotels in Liverpool this weekend were rammed to the rafters with tourists coming to town to see Liverpool. Apparently Liverpool at home they are full whilst Everton at home they are empty. Ground full of tourists!!!  Great city though apart from the defeat. 

Quite. A colleague from Bury St Edmunds took his missus and two teenage daughters to Anfield on saturday for their first games ever, then him and all his mates were noshing each other off on facebook about the great photos, great performance, what an experience for them all etc. He's supposedly a lifelong Liverpool fan FFS.

[Patrick Bateman]

On 27/11/2021 at 23:09, Patrick Bateman said:

Another I agree with. I've been saying for months how predictable and basic his corners are. No point getting a corner as without fail the ball lands on the head of the opposition, resulting in a scramble back into position. Saints must have one of the worst goal scoring records from corners. 

I thank you, cough!