Liverpool 4-0 Saints - Match Thread

[S-Clarke]

11 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

We didn’t get “pounded by city or utd” tho did we. We will lose to quality sides that are playing at the top of their game tho.

Nope, not at all - but we had key players at the top of their game in those two games. If we play a decent side full of form and we have even 1 key player off of it (Romeu), then it's a bit messy. We need to be perfect whenever we play this sides and hope they have a dip too.

[S-Clarke]

11 hours ago, MAY-Z said:

So a goal and 2 assists from Armstrongs previous 3 games isn’t good enough? And without those we would be sitting on 1 win.

 

If you look at his overall game it's just way too hectic. I hope it'll settle down, but there's no real refinement in his game re: touch or technique. It's all hit and run.

Very much reminds me of a younger shane Long.

[Billy the Kidd]

11 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Nope, not at all - but we had key players at the top of their game in those two games. If we play a decent side full of form and we have even 1 key player off of it (Romeu), then it's a bit messy. We need to be perfect whenever we play this sides and hope they have a dip too.

But were they at the top of their game due to the formation, tactics etc in those games?

It didnt seem like some of the players knew exactly what they should be doing.

[TWar]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You’ve absolutely no idea why he took the blame, none whatsoever. I’d imagine 95% of supporters think he took it, because that’s where the blame lays. But no, not you. You’re still spouting this bizarre pony that it was the right decision. It was the wrong formation, we know it, Ralph’s admitted it, yet in the rush to “see” things others can’t and attempting to portray yourself as a supreme analyst, you’re making a plank of yourself. Give it up. 

No one has any idea of the inner workings of Ralphs head except Ralph, yourself included. 95% of supporters can believe what they want, I expect that if he did do it to take pressure off the team he'd be happy that so many of supporters buy it. 

I don't know what this "supreme analyst" thing comes from. I gave my opinion, that a back three/five is a good way of parking the bus against a big team and trying to nick it on the break and had already worked this season against bigger teams so wasn't inherently a bad idea. It's not even a particularly complicated opinion, I'm not sure where this "supreme analyst" thing comes from, I'm just giving my views like everyone else.

[TWar]

1 hour ago, egg said:

That formation never had any prospect of competing, mainly because it conceded midfield by being a man short. That's not hindsight, I and others said it in the build up thread as it was obvious what would happen. 

The hilarious part of you defending yesterdays tactics is that Ralph isn't even defending them. 

I expected to lose yesterday, but I didn't expect Ralph to hand them the midfield, thus the game, and that's exactly what he did. 

If we had gone toe to toe in midfield, had an extra man like Diallo, and tried to win the midfield battle we almost certainly would have lost. Henderson, Thiago, and Fabinho is probably the best midfield in the league and potentially the best midfield in the world. We could have had a go, JWP is certainly a top level player, but with the likes of Romeu and Diallo we would have needed them to be seriously off form for our players to have won the midfield battle against theirs.

Instead we employed a tactic as old as football, park the bus, lots of defenders, cede the midfield battle, and try to catch them on the break. It didn't work, as it often won't, but it was by no means a bad move. There is a reason most small sides employ this tactic against the big boys rather than trying to match them in midfield and outplaying them.

[egg]

25 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

If you look at his overall game it's just way too hectic. I hope it'll settle down, but there's no real refinement in his game re: touch or technique. It's all hit and run.

Very much reminds me of a younger shane Long.

Yep. He's not remotely cultured - hectic is a great description. He's got pace, movement, energy, but players need that plus touch, turn and technique to become a good top flight player. 

[TWar]

1 hour ago, Bob76 said:

Wow, so glad the club don't give up like you, every match can be won and Ralph had admitted that he messed up and the setup did not give the team the chance it needed. Seems it's only you who thinks otherwise. (Last post)

Luckily the club is run by people like me. I was one of the few calling for Ralph to remain at the back half of last season when a lot of others were calling for him to go. He did remain and now he's doing better. The people running the club won't be too bothered by a loss to Liverpool, I promise you that. A win is great, a loss is expected.

[egg]

Just now, TWar said:

If we had gone toe to toe in midfield, had an extra man like Diallo, and tried to win the midfield battle we almost certainly would have lost. Henderson, Thiago, and Fabinho is probably the best midfield in the league and potentially the best midfield in the world. We could have had a go, JWP is certainly a top level player, but with the likes of Romeu and Diallo we would have needed them to be seriously off form for our players to have won the midfield battle against theirs.

Instead we employed a tactic as old as football, park the bus, lots of defenders, cede the midfield battle, and try to catch them on the break. It didn't work, as it often won't, but it was by no means a bad move. There is a reason most small sides employ this tactic against the big boys rather than trying to match them in midfield and outplaying them.

It's as simple as this - if you concede the midfield, you're inviting one way traffic and leave the defence to deal with the floods of attacks, but if you can compete in midfield, those waves reduce. We'd never have won the midfield, but setting up as attack against defence was mental. 

Anyways, why are you still defending tactics that Ralph admits were the wrong ones? I know you're a fan of his, but this attempt is more than a bit odd. 

[austsaint]

Just now, egg said:

Yep. He's not remotely cultured - hectic is a great description. He's got pace, movement, energy, but players need that plus touch, turn and technique to become a good top flight player. 

I'm still confident Armstrong will make the grade.  Don't disagree with you and S. Clarke re the rushed, slightly hectic style of play - but I disagree (with Clarkey) about him resembling a young Shane Long - he's much better than that; and the composure and refinement will come.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. He's not remotely cultured - hectic is a great description. He's got pace, movement, energy, but players need that plus touch, turn and technique to become a good top flight player. 

His touch is superb, takes the ball under control well and his "turn" is good too, he has had some excellent moments dribbling through defences where it seems like the ball is locked to his foot. The only thing he lacks, imo, is composure. When he is feeding off scraps all game and then the big chance falls he snatches at it. It looks like panic. Hopefully he is just a little overwhelmed by the league at his age and it's a confidence thing that will pass as it wasn't good enough yesterday or against united where he had similar issues.

[TWar]

Just now, egg said:

It's as simple as this - if you concede the midfield, you're inviting one way traffic and leave the defence to deal with the floods of attacks, but if you can compete in midfield, those waves reduce. We'd never have won the midfield, but setting up as attack against defence was mental. 

Anyways, why are you still defending tactics that Ralph admits were the wrong ones? I know you're a fan of his, but this attempt is more than a bit odd. 

If you are going to lose the midfield regardless then why not just come to terms with this and have more defence for the inevitable floods of attacks anyway? Also, if this is such an unviable strategy then why is it used so often and consistently when smaller sides play bigger sides? Parking the bus, having a target man, trying to nick it from set pieces is not a revolutionary idea.

Regarding Ralph admitting the tactics being wrong, maybe he believes that and I disagree. Maybe he doesn't believe that and is trying to take pressure off the players, which I agree is an admirable move. Who knows, the point is my views are my views and aren't based on "Ralph said it so it must be true, because he's so clever". I think parking the bus at big sides works, and going blow to blow in midfield mostly doesn't. Whether Ralph agrees or disagrees doesn't change that.

[egg]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

His touch is superb, takes the ball under control well and his "turn" is good too, he has had some excellent moments dribbling through defences where it seems like the ball is locked to his foot. The only thing he lacks, imo, is composure. When he is feeding off scraps all game and then the big chance falls he snatches at it. It looks like panic. Hopefully he is just a little overwhelmed by the league at his age and it's a confidence thing that will pass as it wasn't good enough yesterday or against united where he had similar issues.

Let's see how he goes. He's no Dan N'lundulu, but he's a million miles away from the young Dan Ings that people suggest he is imo. For our budget he was worth a punt so I don't see him as a bad signing as such, but I'm not sure he's got much room for improvement. 

[whelk]

Can’t believe people piling into Armstrong. Looks a good signing at the mo but needs to settle in

[TWar]

Just now, whelk said:

Can’t believe people piling into Armstrong. Looks a good signing at the mo but needs to settle in

Agreed. This was his worst game and I still thought he looked alright.

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Agreed. This was his worst game and I still thought he looked alright.

Yeah and importantly he is getting into good positions. 

The one in the 2nd half where he fluffed it with his left foot with the defender sliding in, I thought he should have cut back on to his right and slotted it home. That is the things about him snatching, and feeding off scraps isn’t helping. 

I seriously hope Ralph is working with his composure, both mentally and physically, as I think he could be a great player for us. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Let's see how he goes. He's no Dan N'lundulu, but he's a million miles away from the young Dan Ings that people suggest he is imo. For our budget he was worth a punt so I don't see him as a bad signing as such, but I'm not sure he's got much room for improvement. 

I wouldn't say he's a million miles away from Danny. Danny is a better finisher, no doubt. But Armstrong has traits Danny didn't. He is much much faster, he is very two footed, a better dribbler, and has hamstrings not made of glass.

Danny is better right now, but not much better, and Armstrong is still a lot younger. Despite this, Armstrong has the exact same number of goal involvements as Ings this season (one more if the Che goal was not given as an OG which it shouldn't have been imo). He is a decent player and given the option to swap for Ings right now, considering Ings' injury record and the fact he's already done his hammy once this season, I wouldn't. This season he will level Ings for scoring, next season he will comfortably surpass imo.

[egg]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

If you are going to lose the midfield regardless then why not just come to terms with this and have more defence for the inevitable floods of attacks anyway? Also, if this is such an unviable strategy then why is it used so often and consistently when smaller sides play bigger sides? Parking the bus, having a target man, trying to nick it from set pieces is not a revolutionary idea.

Regarding Ralph admitting the tactics being wrong, maybe he believes that and I disagree. Maybe he doesn't believe that and is trying to take pressure off the players, which I agree is an admirable move. Who knows, the point is my views are my views and aren't based on "Ralph said it so it must be true, because he's so clever". I think parking the bus at big sides works, and going blow to blow in midfield mostly doesn't. Whether Ralph agrees or disagrees doesn't change that.

Their 3 in midfield were able to do what they wanted both with the ball and movement off it. Another body in there reduces that. 

If, as you say, a back 5 gives more protection than a back 4, care to explain why we were better in the second half with less defenders? 

You've said above that someone can't possibly know the inner workings of Ralph's mind but here you are saying that you do, and also you are essentially saying that he lied when he admitted the that he got his tactics wrong. 

The mind boggles. 

[TWar]

Just now, Billy the Kidd said:

Yeah and importantly he is getting into good positions. 

The one in the 2nd half where he fluffed it with his left foot with the defender sliding in, I thought he should have cut back on to his right and slotted it home. That is the things about him snatching, and feeding off scraps isn’t helping. 

I seriously hope Ralph is working with his composure, both mentally and physically, as I think he could be a great player for us. 

Me too, Ralph did a good job of adding more composure to Jack Stephens game, as well as Bednarek, JWP and Romeu. I know Bednarek has off games now, yesterday included, but he is still miles better than he was under Hughes.

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Me too, Ralph did a good job of adding more composure to Jack Stephens game, as well as Bednarek, JWP and Romeu. I know Bednarek has off games now, yesterday included, but he is still miles better than he was under Hughes.

Yeah Ralph has improved some, but Bednarek should not be a starting CB for us just now, he is the weakest link out of the defenders, and I wonder if Ralph will bench him for Lyanco, or more likely Jack. 

I thought Bednarek was at fault for allowing Thiago to literally waltz past him, I was fuming at that. 

[TWar]

Just now, egg said:

Their 3 in midfield were able to do what they wanted both with the ball and movement off it. Another body in there reduces that. 

If, as you say, a back 5 gives more protection than a back 4, care to explain why we were better in the second half with less defenders? 

You've said above that someone can't possibly know the inner workings of Ralph's mind but here you are saying that you do, and also you are essentially saying that he lied when he admitted the that he got his tactics wrong. 

The mind boggles. 

If we had an extra body in midfield it may have slowed their midfield down slightly (may not even have done that against an elite midfield). But would have been at the cost of a man in defence in the box marking Salah, Jota, and Mane. I think extra defensive measures are more valuable than throwing more resources at a losing battle in midfield.

Regarding your second point. Liverpool when 3-0 took their foot off the peddle. They subbed off their best midfielder for a pretty mediocre player in AOC, and just generally seemed to calm down and pass it around, conserving energy and having the midweek merseyside derby in mind. If they needed to, they could have put a few more past us. They even brought off their striker on a hatrick to rest him so they could play Taki, a player we are all grimly aware of his quality...

Where am I saying I do? I said maybe he said it to take pressure off the team, it's possible. Or maybe he was right the first time in my opinion and wrong to second guess himself. Either way I disagree with him.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Yeah Ralph has improved some, but Bednarek should not be a starting CB for us just now, he is the weakest link out of the defenders, and I wonder if Ralph will bench him for Lyanco, or more likely Jack. 

I thought Bednarek was at fault for allowing Thiago to literally waltz past him, I was fuming at that. 

I doubt Bednarek starts going forward imo. Stephens should be straight back in when he returns imo.

[Turkish]

45 minutes ago, TWar said:

No one has any idea of the inner workings of Ralphs head except Ralph, yourself included. 95% of supporters can believe what they want, I expect that if he did do it to take pressure off the team he'd be happy that so many of supporters buy it. 

I don't know what this "supreme analyst" thing comes from. I gave my opinion, that a back three/five is a good way of parking the bus against a big team and trying to nick it on the break and had already worked this season against bigger teams so wasn't inherently a bad idea. It's not even a particularly complicated opinion, I'm not sure where this "supreme analyst" thing comes from, I'm just giving my views like everyone else.

Because you think you know better than everyone else, that’s why. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Because you think you know better than everyone else, that’s why. 

I really don't. I think I know better than you, but I think almost all posters know better than you. Regarding everyone else, there are a lot of very insightful and high quality posters on here who know easily more than I do.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

I really don't. I think I know better than you, but I think almost all posters know better than you. Regarding everyone else, there are a lot of very insightful and high quality posters on here who know easily more than I do.

You keep on believing that pal, but there is only one person most people are pointing and laughing at on this thread and it ain’t me.

[TWar]

Just now, Turkish said:

You keep on believing that pal, but there is only one person most people are pointing and laughing at on this thread and it ain’t me.

Having a different opinion to the majority doesn't bother me. Forums aren't popularity contests for me, they are a place to discuss your views with other fans. If they disagree and have good arguments great, if they change your mind, even better (I am changing my mind on Lyanco for example). If you change their mind thats cool too.

If you see forums as a super combative way to try and laugh at and win arguments and get some sort of embarrassing forum cred, then that's fine. But it's not what I'm about. I'm just here to discuss the team I support with other reasonable fans.

[Micky]

53 minutes ago, TWar said:

Luckily the club is run by people like me. I was one of the few calling for Ralph to remain at the back half of last season when a lot of others were calling for him to go. He did remain and now he's doing better. The people running the club won't be too bothered by a loss to Liverpool, I promise you that. A win is great, a loss is expected.

Luckily? Why, are you happy with mediocrity and barely competing? They may not be bothered about a loss to Liverpool, but they should be bothered about performance.  Will they have been bothered about a loss at lowly Norwich, or will that have simply been swept under the carpet?  

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, Micky said:

Luckily? Why, are you happy with mediocrity and barely competing? They may not be bothered about a loss to Liverpool, but they should be bothered about performance.  Will they have been bothered about a loss at lowly Norwich, or will that have simply been swept under the carpet?  

What do you mean by "competing"? You want us to be going for a premier league title? Or do you mean competing for europe?

We can't compete right now, we don't have the resources. If we buy a load of young up and coming players, give them chances and improve them, sell them for big fees and reinvest then maybe we can crack the top 8 again like we did before. But "competing" for europe with this squad isn't something Pep or Klopp could do. It's a long road for teams who can't just buy their way there.

Regarding the norwich game, we played well, made more chances, got a goal, and were fucked by two massive goalkeeping errors and an inability to kill the game in the first half. I imagine this reupped the people upstairs' urge to sign a keeper next summer (hopefully Johnstone) and the need to maybe look at better attacking mids. They will care about that game, and will address it hopefully with a bit of financial backing for Ralph.

Edited 28 November, 2021 by TWar

[Turkish]

12 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

Lineker is such a wanker.

On first MOTD in a game where we get hammered.

Played out of our skin v city and iirc we were still about 5th game on.

AGAINST CITY.

Blokes a tosser.

Edit: can't remember exactly what slot we had, MLG.

Inb4.

It was a thing of beauty though. Highlighting taking the knee and gushing over the applause before immediately switching to a shot of someones boots with the rainbow laces and more gushing about how great that is. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Luckily the club is run by people like me.

Fucking hell, this explains why we’re a fucking shambles. 

[stevy777_x]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Yep. He's not remotely cultured - hectic is a great description. He's got pace, movement, energy, but players need that plus touch, turn and technique to become a good top flight player. 

I ve said it all along he doesn t have the attributes in his game to become a good PL player. Adams is way ahead of him in that department

[Toadhall Saint]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

If we had an extra body in midfield it may have slowed their midfield down slightly (may not even have done that against an elite midfield). But would have been at the cost of a man in defence in the box marking Salah, Jota, and Mane. I think extra defensive measures are more valuable than throwing more resources at a losing battle in midfield.

Regarding your second point. Liverpool when 3-0 took their foot off the peddle. They subbed off their best midfielder for a pretty mediocre player in AOC, and just generally seemed to calm down and pass it around, conserving energy and having the midweek merseyside derby in mind. If they needed to, they could have put a few more past us. They even brought off their striker on a hatrick to rest him so they could play Taki, a player we are all grimly aware of his quality...

Where am I saying I do? I said maybe he said it to take pressure off the team, it's possible. Or maybe he was right the first time in my opinion and wrong to second guess himself. Either way I disagree with him.

You don’t need to lose anyone in a back 5 to put an extra body in midfield- 5-3-2 or even 5-4-1. 

[The Kraken]

Just now, Toadhall Saint said:

You don’t need to lose anyone in a back 5 to put an extra body in midfield- 5-3-2 or even 5-4-1. 

I reckon Ralph was planning on 5-3-2 as he said he had to reshuffle because ‘Ibra’ got injured and couldn’t play.

[TWar]

Just now, Toadhall Saint said:

You don’t need to lose anyone in a back 5 to put an extra body in midfield- 5-3-2 or even 5-4-1. 

The issue with those formations is you would find it very tricky to break on them. If we play a 532 then the front two are super isolated with no link (also we couldn't play it as Diallo and Armstrong were injured), a 541 could work if the 4 had two industrious linking mids in front of JWP and Romeu (like Armstrong and Djenepo for example), but then it is basically a 3421 which isn't much more effective than a 3412 

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

I reckon Ralph was planning on 5-3-2 as he said he had to reshuffle because ‘Ibra’ got injured and couldn’t play.

That’s my view too

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

The issue with those formations is you would find it very tricky to break on them. If we play a 532 then the front two are super isolated with no link (also we couldn't play it as Diallo and Armstrong were injured), a 541 could work if the 4 had two industrious linking mids in front of JWP and Romeu (like Armstrong and Djenepo for example), but then it is basically a 3421 which isn't much more effective than a 3412 

5-3-1-1?

[LuckyNumber7]

I do think Ralph got the tactics wrong as we gave them far too much space in the middle of the park, so the back three were constantly faced by Liverpool forwards bombing at them with little resistance. It's great having three forwards but if you've got no-one to feed the ball to them it's pointless, and we were just overrun in that first half. However realistically we would have got humped regardless of formation as Liverpool are just on another planet to us right now, we have to expect these results every now and then. The two upcoming home games are far more important and we need to be looking at taking at least four points from those.

As for positives I thought under the circumstances Lyanco looked pretty good again, certainly our best defender on the day. Bednarek is truly dire and should be relegated to fourth choice once Jack is back from injury. 

We had our moments in attack and were a bit unlucky not to score, and Broja looked a menace again. We're just lacking that quality end product.

[HarvSFC]

1 hour ago, austsaint said:

I'm still confident Armstrong will make the grade.  Don't disagree with you and S. Clarke re the rushed, slightly hectic style of play - but I disagree (with Clarkey) about him resembling a young Shane Long - he's much better than that; and the composure and refinement will come.

He's more reminiscent of Jay Rodriguez when he first joined, who was also rushed and hectic. He turned into a completely different player after his injury, but we all remember how good he was before it and following a difficult first period at the club, where he scored just the one league goal in his first 15 appearances.

Armstrong will never have the touch, composure, or class that Lambert had, but hopefully he develops as Rodriguez did here. The only downside being is that we had other goal scorers in 2012-13.

[Charlie Wayman]

A morning for reflection.

Many of you have missed the whole point of Ralph's team selection and set-up for this match. It is quite obvious that he set us up to stop Mane & Sala from scoring and he succeeded, they rarely had a sniff so what are you complaining about?

Edited 28 November, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[Charlie Wayman]

9 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

He's more reminiscent of Jay Rodriguez when he first joined, who was also rushed and hectic. He turned into a completely different player after his injury, but we all remember how good he was before it and following a difficult first period at the club, where he scored just the one league goal in his first 15 appearances.

Armstrong will never have the touch, composure, or class that Lambert had, but hopefully he develops as Rodriguez did here. The only downside being is that we had other goal scorers in 2012-13.

Armstrong is a very limited player and what you see is all you are going to get but to be fair he was up against a world class defender yesterday who happens to be 2 feet taller than him with a stride and speed over the ground to match. That was never going to be a fair or equal contest.

[Forester]

Long journey for an awful performance.  For my part I don’t think it was the three at the back per se that was hardest to fathom, although if you are doing that against Liverpool front three you have to be either very deep with midfield picking them up or super high to get tight on them with wing backs tucking in.  We did neither.

 

For me the biggest crime was picking three pure forwards, meaning that we usually had just eight behind the ball rather than the ten we needed when out of possession.  I personally would also have gone three at the back, but with two of Tella, Redmond or Moussa working with one of the three strikers (probably Adams).  That would have given us pace on the counter, but feeling like 5, 4, 1 out of possession.

[JustinSFC]

4 hours ago, macca155 said:

In fairness Ralph put his hands up and fully accepted it was the wrong decision. That doesn't excuse it but let's hope he learns.

Learn?

The blokes 4 years in.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

3 hours ago, TWar said:

Luckily the club is run by people like me. I was one of the few calling for Ralph to remain at the back half of last season when a lot of others were calling for him to go. He did remain and now he's doing better. The people running the club won't be too bothered by a loss to Liverpool, I promise you that. A win is great, a loss is expected.

That first sentence is pretty arrogant if you don’t mind me saying. In fact your near messianic defence of Ralph is a bit strange too. He is far from perfect. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

A morning for reflection.

Many of you have missed the whole point of Ralph's team selection and set-up for this match. It is quite obvious that he set us up to stop Mane & Sala from scoring and he succeeded, they rarely had a sniff so what are you complaining about?

Can't speak for others, but for me the fact that he left us set up to get battered, which we did. 

[Billy the Kidd]

And ‘the bloke’s’ also changed lots this season, compared to last season. 

1. Tactics
2. Formations
3. Players as subs
4. Timings of subs
5. Harder to score against

I’m sure others can state more (calling @TWar), but one thing I cant really agree with is that Ralph hasn’t learned.

Still, perhaps we should be lucky you didnt post in deiner gewohnt aggressiven Weise.

Good for you.

 

[Saint Billy]

6 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Learn?

The blokes 4 years in.

Agreed, not sure what to make of the setup yesterday, and why he chose it against Liverpool. My initial reaction was, that's brave, but mixed with, that's suicide. 

By now you would have thought that Ralph would not pick a formation that leaves our defence, such as it is, exposed against one of the best teams in the world. 

[Chez]

 

1 hour ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

As for positives I thought under the circumstances Lyanco looked pretty good again, certainly our best defender on the day. Bednarek is truly dire and should be relegated to fourth choice once Jack is back from injury. 

We had our moments in attack and were a bit unlucky not to score, and Broja looked a menace again. We're just lacking that quality end product.

Lyanco inspires zero confidence. What the fuck was he doing for their first goal?

The second goal last week was largely down to him and looking at their fourth yesterday, I wonder if he is partly to blame too. If he is meant to be playing zone, then he should be holding his position and then he wins an easy header. I might be being harsh here, as I don't know the instruction, but if you watch it side on, his defending is limp. 

I don't think we were unlucky not to score, I think our strikers did a bad job.

I agree fully about Broja. He caused them big problems and he starts for me when fit.  The so called partnership of Armstrong and Che simply is not a thing. 

[Chez]

3 hours ago, TWar said:

Agreed. This was his worst game and I still thought he looked alright.

he was poor. I like what I have seen in recent weeks, but he was rubbish yesterday. Strikers get cut far too much slack, whilst defenders and keepers get murdered if they make an error. There was a situation yesterday when we caught them on the break. Amstrong was on the ball and ran into the box on the left side and from there he needs to set up Broja or shoot and score. He completely fucks up and there isn't even a shot on goal. It was woeful. Stuff like this needs calling out in the same poor defending is. There needs to be balance when criticising players and performance, and thats why I have mentioned him a few times on this thread and also why I've called out anyone mentioning McCarthy who wasn't really at fault at all. 

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Forester said:

Long journey for an awful performance.  For my part I don’t think it was the three at the back per se that was hardest to fathom, although if you are doing that against Liverpool front three you have to be either very deep with midfield picking them up or super high to get tight on them with wing backs tucking in.  We did neither.

 

For me the biggest crime was picking three pure forwards, meaning that we usually had just eight behind the ball rather than the ten we needed when out of possession.  I personally would also have gone three at the back, but with two of Tella, Redmond or Moussa working with one of the three strikers (probably Adams).  That would have given us pace on the counter, but feeling like 5, 4, 1 out of possession.

absolutely spot on. These are the words I have been looking for.

We somehow managed to isolate both the three up front AND the three at the back. Killed us. 

[The Cat]

52 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Learn?

The blokes 4 years in.

People are always learning though aren't they? Doesn't matter how many years they have been playing or managing there's always scope to know more.

[JustinSFC]

1 minute ago, The Cat said:

People are always learning though aren't they? Doesn't matter how many years they have been playing or managing there's always scope to know more.

Does he really have to learn not to go 2 in midfield V that lot?

I mean... Really?