Liverpool 4-0 Saints - Match Thread

[obelisk]

I'm beginning to think that Ralph might be the problem.

[Saint Matty 76]

1 minute ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Of course you are correct. 

We just wont allow last week v Norwich to count either.

Nobody is excusing that result?

[OttawaSaint]

Presumably Bednarek will be made to walk home.

[whelk]

Just now, Mr Saints said:

Another tactical masterclass. 3 centre forwards against them?! Jesus wept.

Think though it may keep away the predators and we get to keep the tactical genius who defies the odds getting a tune out of these players

[Saints foreva]

Poor performance. Made it too easy for them which is the most disappointing thing about that result. Lucky they missed a few sitters and that this manager has made 4-0 thrashings feel like 1-0s. 

[TWar]

We were beaten by one of the best teams in the world. It was a comfortable victory but so were their victories against Arsenal and United who are much bigger and richer teams than us. It is obviously a shame we lost but this isn't the end of the world.

The usual suspects will already blame the manager as if a good manager would easily brush aside a team like liverpool with our players. We played a back 3, it was effective against Chelsea earlier in the season and the second halves against United and City so there is definitely logic for using it, they were just too good. We deployed Che as a deeper 10 behind the two forwards which in my opinion isn't a bad shout and didn't cause the loss, Liverpools sheer quality caused the loss.

[northam soul]

I actually thought Lyanco looked ok considering the crap in front of him.

We just don’t have the quality going forward.

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

We were beaten by one of the best teams in the world. It was a comfortable victory but so were their victories against Arsenal and United who are much bigger and richer teams than us. It is obviously a shame we lost but this isn't the end of the world.

The usual suspects will already blame the manager as if a good manager would easily brush aside a team like liverpool with our players. We played a back 3, it was effective against Chelsea earlier in the season and the second halves against United and City so there is definitely logic for using it, they were just too good. We deployed Che as a deeper 10 behind the two forwards which in my opinion isn't a bad shout and didn't cause the loss, Liverpools sheer quality caused the loss.

😂

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Just now, obelisk said:

I'm beginning to think that Ralph might be the problem.

There are no absolutes in all this.  Ralph has his strengths and his weaknesses but he's about as good as we can attract at the moment.  Combine Ralph's qualities along with the lack of investment in the team and the overall output is to be expected.  We're slowing dying, anyone can see it.  It's not attributable to a single player or the manager, its the big picture problem of being broke and playing in the richest league in the world.  We'll get relegated soon, the question is how soon.  That is the reality of the situation unless club ownership changes.  Everyone around us gets richer or invests more and our current strategy is to pick up kids from other Academies as first team players.  It's a very bad situation to be in and messing around with managers or changing goalkeepers won't change a thing about the course of direction that the club is on.

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, Mr Saints said:

Another tactical masterclass. 3 centre forwards against them?! Jesus wept.

Che is usually a support striker more than a "Centre Forward". We was used as a 10 sitting deeper to help hold up play, while allowing Broja to be a target man and Armstrong to have the pace to run in behind. We did actually make a chance or two so what was going on up top wasn't really the issue (aside from some poor finishing). The issue is Salah, Jota, Mane is a different class to our defence. They are a different class to a lot of defences though to be honest.

[qwertyell]

Kept it under 9. So that's a positive.

Need to somehow find a win from Brighton or Leicester next week to stop the rot from setting in.

Scoring goals continues to be a massive issue.

[trousers]

After conceding in the first couple of minutes, 4-0 is a better outcome than we were all fearing at that point. That's clutching-at-straws territory for anything positive in that performance though. 

Liverpool have put 4 past Man Utd and Arsenal this season, and 3 past plenty of others too, so in that context, it's not the end of the world.

A couple of home games coming up to hopefully get some mojo back.

P.s. Tella has to start next game, surely? The only Saints player who looked up for it today. 

 

Edited 27 November, 2021 by trousers

[Saint_Tony]

not sure what else was expected. We have won a few games against teams around us recently, and should have enough to avoid the drop. We can't compete with the big boys, weve constantly had a lower net spend than any other team in recent years, that's our level.

[aintforever]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

We deployed Che as a deeper 10 behind the two forwards which in my opinion isn't a bad shout and didn't cause the loss, Liverpools sheer quality caused the loss.

Che as a number ten is a shit idea IMO.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

I guess we were always likely to lose this one. I just wish we hadn't gift wrapped it with another disastrously bizarre Ralph formation. I feel for those who went there to witness it first hand...

[AlexLaw76]

That was a good result for us, yes?

We are a pretty crap team who will do very well to stay up.  We played like it today, so no complaints from me.

[TWar]

Just now, trousers said:

After conceding in the first couple of minutes, 4-0 is a better outcome than we were all fearing at that point. That's clutching-at-straws territory for anything positive in that performance though. 

Liverpool have put 4 past Man Utd and Arsenal this season too, and 3 past plenty of others do, in that context, it's not the end of the world.

A couple of home games coming up to hopefully get some mojo back.

P.s. Tella has to start next game, surely? The only Saints player who looked up for it today. 

 

This is the sensible take. Liverpool are very good. People will cry about the manager and misunderstand how our attack was structured today (while also pretending like the attack was the issue), but Liverpool are a quality side. We have already given United, Chelsea, and City a good game, we can't be always expected to stand up to the big sides, they are still obviously a lot lot better than us.

[whelk]

7 minutes ago, doc oli said:

Honestly. Couldn’t have been wishing a fifth goal more if he was sat on the kop. 

Yeah hope he has a car crash on the way home. Not too hurt just a bit of impaling on a spike

[Badger]

20 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

Bus. Parking, for use of. 
 

why didn’t we?

Because we can't.

Don't recall a time whilst I've been watching Saints (since the 1960's) that we've mastered the art of constantly just nullifying the opposition.

[CB Fry]

4 minutes ago, TWar said:

We were beaten by one of the best teams in the world. It was a comfortable victory but so were their victories against Arsenal and United who are much bigger and richer teams than us. It is obviously a shame we lost but this isn't the end of the world.

The usual suspects will already blame the manager as if a good manager would easily brush aside a team like liverpool with our players. We played a back 3, it was effective against Chelsea earlier in the season and the second halves against United and City so there is definitely logic for using it, they were just too good. We deployed Che as a deeper 10 behind the two forwards which in my opinion isn't a bad shout and didn't cause the loss, Liverpools sheer quality caused the loss.

I think the main takeaway from this match is how much more knowledgeable you are compared to every other contributor on this forum. You, like, know everything.

[TWar]

Just now, aintforever said:

Che as a number ten is a shit idea IMO.

I disagree, he passes well and has good hold up. I think him in that role is better than anyone else we had fit and available to give an outball. 

[Nemi]

The problem isn’t losing 4-0 at Anfield. The problem is that Saints just don’t look very likely to score that often.

[Lighthouse]

7 minutes ago, Saints foreva said:

Poor performance. Made it too easy for them which is the most disappointing thing about that result. Lucky they missed a few sitters and that this manager has made 4-0 thrashings feel like 1-0s. 

We’ve not lost any other game by more than two goals this season and that includes Chelsea, where we were drawing until a silly foul on 70 minutes, and Everton away.

[Bazzyfryer]

Arsenal lost 4-0 to Liverpool last time out and everyone was saying what a great side they were. They are certainly a better team than us and probably one Liverpool player is worth the whole of the Saints side. What an unequal league the Premier League is I wonder how the likes of Klott and Guardiola would get on managing Saints with our limited resources get a grip we will never challenge for honours in this league unless some dodgy regime buys us out

[Sarisbury Saint]

3 minutes ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

I guess we were always likely to lose this one. I just wish we hadn't gift wrapped it with another disastrously bizarre Ralph formation. I feel for those who went there to witness it first hand...

Agree with that.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

We’ve not lost my other game by more than two goals this season and that includes Chelsea, where we were drawing until a silly foul on 70 minutes, and Everton away.

This is the problem, a big team was always going to have a comfortable victory against us at one point and a load of people were going to come out and be very unhappy and start talking about how crap it makes the manager/various players. Liverpool have thumped much bigger teams than us, sometimes you just have to recognise a bigger fish. We did well to take points off City and United but lets not go crazy with our expectations.

[beatlesaint]

Any chance Ralph holds his hands up and admits he got the formation wrong first half?

[Micky]

Meh it was a free hit, before the game I said if we could get out with a 3 nil loss I'd take it, so it was close.   3 up front at Anfield, what on earth was he thinking, this is a team that scores goals for fun.  We needed more in midfield to try and stay in the game longer, as it was it was all over by half time.  Look on the bright side, it's another early night for me, no need to wait for MOTD tonight, thinking about it I rarely watch it these days..!

[Boris Karloff]

I will give Ralph a pass on this one. I guess the thinking of having 3 up was to keep TAA and Robertson from playing so high up. 

Worked to an extent with TAA. But going behind so early didn't help. 

Broja looked lively and much as I love Oriol, for the second week running he hasn't been the best at tracking Beck with runners and against Liverpool you get punished. 

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I think the main takeaway from this match is how much more knowledgeable you are compared to every other contributor on this forum. You, like, know everything.

To be fair, a lot of people are popping up with similar takes. Sometimes it's very cathartic after watching your team lose to hop on the forum and call the manager a useless know-nothing idiot. In the coming days and cold light of day people will be a bit more pragmatic about the fact sometimes big teams will have comprehensive victories against teams our size. People called it a "shot to nothing" or "free hit" beforehand, they will remember that soon.

[Pamplemousse]

Bad performance but we have to move on. Two big home games coming up.

Edited 27 November, 2021 by Pamplemousse

[OttawaSaint]

Two goals scored in November.

How many for December? I'll go for 5.

Leicester (h)

BHA (h)

Arsenal (a)

Palace (a)

Brentford (h)

WHU (a)

Spurs (h)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 November, 2021 by OttawaSaint

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Any chance Ralph holds his hands up and admits he got the formation wrong first half?

Do you think if we had a 4222 we would have won?

I don't think he did get the formation wrong, a 3412 had the best chance of success, but given Liverpool are an excellent side, that chance was still very low. It doesn't prove he made the wrong decision imo.

[Mr X]

4-0 bad enough but could have & probably should have been much worse! so we have to take it as damage limitation (yes 4-0 was an escape), we never really looked like causing then any problems though

[Fitzhugh Fella]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

After conceding in the first couple of minutes, 4-0 is a better outcome than we were all fearing at that point. That's clutching-at-straws territory for anything positive in that performance though. 

Liverpool have put 4 past Man Utd and Arsenal this season too, and 3 past plenty of others do, in that context, it's not the end of the world.

A couple of home games coming up to hopefully get some mojo back.

P.s. Tella has to start next game, surely? The only Saints player who looked up for it today. 

 

If Tella was the only player "up for it" I don't see your comment "it's not the end of the world" offering much comfort. The fact we went to Anfield and 10 of our players weren't "up for it" must surely be a real concern? To get anything today we should have picked a settled well-drilled side who knew each others game inside out and the game plan. Instead we sent up a round hole square peg sort of team which was almost like Ralph threw the squad names onto a blank canvass a la Jackson Pollack and went with the 11 names nearest the middle. One week Perraud next week Walker Peters etc etc. The players must be bemused, the fans are certainly confused and I'm not really sure Ralph knows his arse from his elbow these days.

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, Boris Karloff said:

I will give Ralph a pass on this one. I guess the thinking of having 3 up was to keep TAA and Robertson from playing so high up. 

Worked to an extent with TAA. But going behind so early didn't help. 

Broja looked lively and much as I love Oriol, for the second week running he hasn't been the best at tracking Beck with runners and against Liverpool you get punished. 

Agree with all of this, Romeu did have a poor game imo as did Bednarek. It was mostly due to their strength that they won, but those two were fairly below par, as was Adam Armstrong.

[cloggy saint]

Three or four nil is about par for the course with this fixture, I have no problem with the result.

[Totton Saint]

Just now, Pamplemousse said:

Bad performance but we have to move on. Two big home games coming up.

I get very depressed waiting each week for Saturday to come round only to be disappointed. Saints are so inconsistent

[Sarisbury Saint]

6 minutes ago, TWar said:

This is the problem, a big team was always going to have a comfortable victory against us at one point and a load of people were going to come out and be very unhappy and start talking about how crap it makes the manager/various players. Liverpool have thumped much bigger teams than us, sometimes you just have to recognise a bigger fish. We did well to take points off City and United but lets not go crazy with our expectations.

Let’s play that formation against all the top teams 😂

[saint lard]

16 minutes ago, TWar said:

We were beaten by one of the best teams in the world. It was a comfortable victory but so were their victories against Arsenal and United who are much bigger and richer teams than us. It is obviously a shame we lost but this isn't the end of the world.

The usual suspects will already blame the manager as if a good manager would easily brush aside a team like liverpool with our players. We played a back 3, it was effective against Chelsea earlier in the season and the second halves against United and City so there is definitely logic for using it, they were just too good. We deployed Che as a deeper 10 behind the two forwards which in my opinion isn't a bad shout and didn't cause the loss, Liverpools sheer quality caused the loss.

Did Norwich’s sheer quality cause the loss?….or was that down to pure lack of in game management and tactical nouse by Hasenhüttl….again?

[JRM]

Not sure what was more disappointing, the result or watching Ralph smiling enjoying his cuddle with Klopp at the end and Nathan Redmond having a good laugh with Van Dijk  at final whistle. 

[TWar]

Just now, Sarisbury Saint said:

Let’s play that formation against all the top teams 😂

Well we have, at times, played three at the back against all of City, Liverpool, United, West Ham and Chelsea this season and have come away with four draws out of five (Chelsea being decided on pens after obviously). So yeah, maybe we should play it against top teams. There is no perfect formation, sometimes you will lose against better teams. I'd say it, and we, have a pretty good hit rate against top sides...

[TWar]

1 minute ago, saint lard said:

Did Norwich’s sheer quality cause the loss?….or was that down to pure lack of in game management and tactical nouse by Hasenhüttl….again?

That was down to two pretty poor goalkeeping errors.

Edited 27 November, 2021 by TWar

[Micky]

3 minutes ago, saint lard said:

Did Norwich’s sheer quality cause the loss?….or was that down to pure lack of in game management and tactical nouse by Hasenhüttl….again?

Decent point.  The Norwich result is the one that we will rue, not todays. 

Edited 27 November, 2021 by Micky

[Bazzyfryer]

Don’t think our record against the top sides is very good really maybe a bit better this season but overall pretty poor.

[DRAGONZ_RULE]

Overall Perraud did a pretty good job on Salah, all things considered - no game time, playing against the form player in the league, and he kept him pretty much chance-less ... KWP comes on, and within a minute Salah had burned him on the inside and took that shot (which hit the corner flag to be fair😁).

Ralph needs to pick one and stick with him at left back for a while. Tino's performances are noticeably regressing, little surprise given such young legs not used to playing EPL intensity week in, week out - perhaps KWP should shift over to the right for a few games as a starting point?

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

If Tella was the only player "up for it" I don't see your comment "it's not the end of the world" offering much comfort. The fact we went to Anfield and 10 of our players weren't "up for it" must surely be a real concern? To get anything today we should have picked a settled well-drilled side who knew each others game inside out and the game plan. Instead we sent up a round hole square peg sort of team which was almost like Ralph threw the squad names onto a blank canvass a la Jackson Pollack and went with the 11 names nearest the middle. One week Perraud next week Walker Peters etc etc. The players must be bemused, the fans are certainly confused and I'm not really sure Ralph knows his arse from his elbow these days.

The team selection made sense to me tbh. Three at the back to try and firm up our defence and so Lyanco could mark the false 9 they play with. Perraud over KWP as Perraud is better at wingback, KWP is better at fullback, not so bemusing. Since we only have room for one "ten" and we desperately needed someone who could hold up the ball and provide an outball as well as winning things in the air we played our player who was best at those attributes there, Adams. This left Broja and Che as the obvious choices up top.

It didn't work, but it is a tactically sound attempt. It's not dissimilar defensively to the style that worked so well against Chelsea and in the second halves against United and City. Che playing that lone 10 role behind Broja and Armstrong is new, but I didn't hate that and to be honest our attacking endeavour and chance creation wasn't the issue today, we actually had a good couple of chances at times. 

[Chez]

23 minutes ago, northam soul said:

I actually thought Lyanco looked ok considering the crap in front of him.

We just don’t have the quality going forward.

I honestly don't recall him doing anything at all in the whole game other than missing the header for their fourth. Whether he was genuinely going for it or indeed whether ti was even possible get I;'m not sure.

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, TWar said:

The team selection made sense to me tbh. Three at the back to try and firm up our defence and so Lyanco could mark the false 9 they play with. Perraud over KWP as Perraud is better at wingback, KWP is better at fullback, not so bemusing. Since we only have room for one "ten" and we desperately needed someone who could hold up the ball and provide an outball as well as winning things in the air we played our player who was best at those attributes there, Adams. This left Broja and Che as the obvious choices up top.

It didn't work, but it is a tactically sound attempt. It's not dissimilar defensively to the style that worked so well against Chelsea and in the second halves against United and City. Che playing that lone 10 role behind Broja and Armstrong is new, but I didn't hate that and to be honest our attacking endeavour and chance creation wasn't the issue today, we actually had a good couple of chances at times. 

When doesn't it?

[beatlesaint]

11 minutes ago, TWar said:

Do you think if we had a 4222 we would have won?

No, but I do wonder why he played a different formation than the one that worked against Man City and, bar the sending off, Chelsea.

And oh look, he reverted to that when we are 3 down !