Gerrard New Villa Boss

[rooney]

10 hours ago, manji said:

Rangers fans suggesting Hasenthull moving to Scotland due to the Ross Wilson connection.

Not going to happen but it would be a dreadful fit for both Ralph and Rangers.

 

I think Gerrard will take him to Villa as Director of Tallness.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

28 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Gerrard was a very good footballer. The trouble is he will long be remembered for THAT slip. Probably still gives him nightmares. 😃

He was obviously a really good player but not that smart or good positionally. I can remember him playing on the right for England and causing chaos by drifting inside and leaving his full back exposed

[TWar]

59 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Gerrard was a very good footballer. The trouble is he will long be remembered for THAT slip. Probably still gives him nightmares. 😃

I have to say, I personally remember him for rallying one of the most incredible comebacks I've ever seen against AC Milan in the CL final.

[suewhistle]

11 hours ago, manji said:

Rangers fans suggesting Hasenthull moving to Scotland due to the Ross Wilson connection

Surely that would be one reason why he'd stay well away?!

[Jeremy Corbyn]

52 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

He was obviously a really good player but not that smart or good positionally. I can remember him playing on the right for England and causing chaos by drifting inside and leaving his full back exposed

His best seasons were playing as a number 10 or in a midfield 3 where he had a couple of other players anchoring.  Brilliant footballer though.

[Saint86]

22 hours ago, TWar said:

Team in freefall with 5 losses on the bounce and no identity and little quality having sold their best player hires a man with zero experience in a top league off the basis of basically winning a one horse race in Scotland. I can see this all ending in tears personally.

I don't think you can call it a one horse race in Scotland? Celtic had won the last 9 consecutive seasons. He ended that and went unbeaten.

Villa have had a bad injuries and suspensions etc. That squad is pretty good and they'll be near to us by the end of the season. Board sacked smith on a 5 game loss run knowing the new manager would have the international break and is bound to pick up form given players will be returning.

Personally think Gerrard will do pretty well there. He's been successful so far albeit over a short managerial career within which he is relatively untested - but he can only prove himself against what is in front of him.

He'll likely manage Liverpool and/or England one day depending on how he plays his cards. Taking the villa job at this time is the right thing to do career wise. He's done all he can in Scotland and that move shows ambition and a willingness to step up.

[st alex]

27 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I don't think you can call it a one horse race in Scotland? Celtic had won the last 9 consecutive seasons. He ended that and went unbeaten.

Villa have had a bad injuries and suspensions etc. That squad is pretty good and they'll be near to us by the end of the season. Board sacked smith on a 5 game loss run knowing the new manager would have the international break and is bound to pick up form given players will be returning.

Personally think Gerrard will do pretty well there. He's been successful so far albeit over a short managerial career within which he is relatively untested - but he can only prove himself against what is in front of him.

He'll likely manage Liverpool and/or England one day depending on how he plays his cards. Taking the villa job at this time is the right thing to do career wise. He's done all he can in Scotland and that move shows ambition and a willingness to step up.

If he does well at Villa he might be in the frame for an England/Liverpool job in the future. That's a very big IF though. The PL is far more competitive than the SPL.

Managerial success at one club doesn't make him a top manager just yet. His success as a player is irrelevant.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, st alex said:

If he does well at Villa he might be in the frame for an England/Liverpool job in the future. That's a very big IF though. The PL is far more competitive than the SPL.

Managerial success at one club doesn't make him a top manager just yet. His success as a player is irrelevant.

At no point have I said that Gerrard's success at Rangers means he is a top manager.... 😅 how did you read what i put and come out with that? 🙈

I've just said that I think Gerrard has done all that he can in Rangers, and that moving to villa is a logical step up and shows he is ambitious and willing to stretch himself. I've not said that he's been good at Rangers so will automatically be good at Villa - just that the only way develop and test someone's ability is is to challenge them. And Villa (and the prem) are the step up for Gerrard in challenging his managerial ability.

He wants the Liverpool job ultimately. Proving himself at Rangers was a start, and he's now chosen to go to Villa as the next rung on the ladder in developing and demonstrating his managerial ability. He's doing it the right way unlike Lampard who just went straight to Chelsea with little experience. Ditto Viera is proving himself the right way after cutting his teeth at a lower level and now palace - when Arteta goes at Arsenal he will be very well set if he continues as he is atm.

Also, there is absolutely no requirement to be remotely competent to be the England manager. Southgate sets that bar incredibly low. If the job was available right now and Gerrard applied i'd wager he'd have a good chance to get it after his success at Rangers.

Edited 12 November, 2021 by Saint86

[Saint86]

23 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

He wouldn't have to do that well to be in the frame for the england job. International football doesn't attract many top managers so you end up with people confused and thinking Martinez and Southgate are good. Funny how no one thinks Low is despite winning a world cup. I don't rate Deschamps and he has too. Someone has to win the things even if everyone is exhausted and poorly coached. 

Not sure how to judge Gerrard what with it being Rangers and the bias of wanting him to fail which I definitely do. Villa is a great job thanks to Grealish leaving and Smith doing badly this year. Lofty expectations have gone in the short term, yet they have a good squad. Not many go into a struggling club and have two goalscorers like Watkins and Ings. Luiz, McGinn, Buendia, Bailey...there's a well balanced talented midfield. Just depends on tactics. I think they'd be well suited to Ralph's 4222. 

They just have a dodgy defence. Good keeper, but they'll concede a lot.  Shame if they waste Buendia. I really wanted him at Saints, think he'd have been perfect as the right no10 in our system but it hasn't happened for him yet. Guess the time to buy was when they went down, his value was crazy really at 33m.

Agreed pretty much verbatum 👌🏼

[Wade Garrett]

He obviously rates our Danny. 😀

[Lord Duckhunter]

On 11/11/2021 at 11:31, TWar said:

Team in freefall with 5 losses on the bounce and no identity and little quality having sold their best player hires a man with zero experience in a top league off the basis of basically winning a one horse race in Scotland. I can see this all ending in tears personally.

He’s already won more games than Ralph in the premier league this season. 😂 

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s already won more games than Ralph in the premier league this season. 😂 

Oh well that proves he's better then...

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, TWar said:

Oh well that proves he's better then...

Ralphs does have a better squad (apparently)

[TWar]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Ralphs does have a better squad (apparently)

Gerrard has had a new manager bounce and they have been quite fortunate in a number of games. Long term I still back us to finish above them or atleast in the same sort of position.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Ralphs does have a better squad (apparently)

And Villa are in “free fall”. Still no need to get too carried away, he’s only beaten Norwich today, any halfwit could manage a win against them. 

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

And Villa are in “free fall”. Still no need to get too carried away, he’s only beaten Norwich today, any halfwit could manage a win against them. 

You'd think this was a villa forum with how quickly you've come to wank them off for the first time they have been more than 3 points up on us (despite us having a game in hand)

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

You'd think this was a villa forum with how quickly you've come to wank them off for the first time they have been more than 3 points up on us (despite us having a game in hand)

Not wanking them off, just laughing at your ridiculous opinions…..again. But I have been “impressed” with the start he’s made. Hopefully, we’ll get the same start from our next guy. 

 

Stop digging. 

Edited 14 December, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[TWar]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

Not wanking them off, just laughing at your ridiculous opinions…..again.

 

Stop digging. 

Is "stop digging" becoming a catch phrase? You seem to post it a lot.

They happen to be above us right now, with the season barely half way through, a few weeks ago we were above them. If we win tomorrow its a 3 point gap. If this is what you think counts as declaring a victory then you mustn't get many.

Also, have you thought about supporting a different team, with how quickly you rush to put every other team above us and only seem to come online when we lose? I get serious SKDMan skate vibes from you sometimes.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

only seem to come online when we lose? 

Fake news.

 

Stop digging. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fake news.

 

Stop digging. 

Tell you what, I'll keep an eye out next time we win to see if you are about and being positive and not trying to call the victory "lucky", saying it was because the other team were shite, or conspicuously absent. Because waiting all season to bump a thread comparing us to another team for the moment they are more than one win above us (deliberately posting before we have played) doesn't strike me as something a fan would do. Strikes me as a troll.

[Sarisbury Saint]

21 minutes ago, TWar said:

You'd think this was a villa forum with how quickly you've come to wank them off for the first time they have been more than 3 points up on us (despite us having a game in hand)

Says the man in love with Liverpool.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Says the man in love with Liverpool.

Huh? When have I ever been in love with liverpool? I recognise they are very good, like City or PSG but I don't love either of them either.

Edited 14 December, 2021 by TWar

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Gerrard has had a new manager bounce and they have been quite fortunate in a number of games. Long term I still back us to finish above them or atleast in the same sort of position.

I hear it's nice living in cloud cuckoo land.

[Dman]

9 hours ago, TWar said:

Tell you what, I'll keep an eye out next time we win to see if you are about and being positive and not trying to call the victory "lucky", saying it was because the other team were shite, or conspicuously absent. Because waiting all season to bump a thread comparing us to another team for the moment they are more than one win above us (deliberately posting before we have played) doesn't strike me as something a fan would do. Strikes me as a troll.

LOOOL. Been made to look an idiot…. Again, so has had to resort to throwing out the skate / troll card 😂😂

FWIW; you can still be a fan but be against the manager, owner, think the players are shit.. etc. 

[TWar]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

LOOOL. Been made to look an idiot…. Again, so has had to resort to throwing out the skate / troll card 😂😂

FWIW; you can still be a fan but be against the manager, owner, think the players are shit.. etc. 

Fans of saints don't only turn up when they are losing, never when they are winning, and say they are worse than league one pompey and their manager is worse than that of san marino. You'd have thought the name change would have encouraged you to be a bit less blatant about your fishy leanings...

Also "made to look an idiot" because I said saints were better than Villa and yet they are currently 6 points ahead? You know the seasons not over yet and we play tonight, right? At the end of the season if Villa are miles ahead of us then I'll concede I underestimated them, but them going through a new manager bounce while we're in a spell of bad form and them happening to play the day before us so they open up a slightly bigger gap does not mean anyone who thinks we are as good or better than them is an "idiot". What is really idiotic is thinking pompey, a team with no academy, no good players, and a toilet for a stadium have more "room to grow" than a team that has produced some of the best players in football.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by TWar

[Toussaint]

13 hours ago, TWar said:

Gerrard has had a new manager bounce and they have been quite fortunate in a number of games. Long term I still back us to finish above them or atleast in the same sort of position.

I think that one may come back to bite you, hope not, but think it will. 

[Saint86]

Gerrard was always going to get a bounce in form. They sacked smith when they severe injuries. Gerrard would have to be shite to not get a bounce as all his players start coming back 😅

[TWar]

8 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I think that one may come back to bite you, hope not, but think it will. 

We shall see. To be honest I think Villa have been quite fortunate. I know some people hate these stats but the expected points for this season (points if expected goals had happened) has us as the third most underperforming side (behind brentford and palace), underperforming by 4.7 points and Villa as the third most overperforming side by 3.2 points behind Chelsea and United. I expect teams to regress to the statistical mean a little tbh. Full table here if people are interested: https://understat.com/league/EPL

Also a team who starts Ashley Young, Matt Targett, and Mings every week isn't one we should see as out of our league.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by TWar

[Charlie Wayman]

Come on chaps, credit where it is due. Stephen Gerrard did a fantastic job at Rangers and is doing a similarly good job at Villa Park. The man has something about him, he knows football inside out and he knows how to motivate a dressing room. We need to move away from the old agenda that all English mangers are crap and accept that one day we will produce some really good managers. It will be the intelligent younger guys who have played in the modern game that lead the charge and we should be excited about it.

[Give it to Ron]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

Fans of saints don't only turn up when they are losing, never when they are winning, and say they are worse than league one pompey and their manager is worse than that of san marino. You'd have thought the name change would have encouraged you to be a bit less blatant about your fishy leanings...

Also "made to look an idiot" because I said saints were better than Villa and yet they are currently 6 points ahead? You know the seasons not over yet and we play tonight, right? At the end of the season if Villa are miles ahead of us then I'll concede I underestimated them, but them going through a new manager bounce while we're in a spell of bad form and them happening to play the day before us so they open up a slightly bigger gap does not mean anyone who thinks we are as good or better than them is an "idiot". What is really idiotic is thinking pompey, a team with no academy, no good players, and a toilet for a stadium have more "room to grow" than a team that has produced some of the best players in football.

The Gerrard and Villa that have won as many games in 5 weeks that Ralph has inn7 months?

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Give it to Ron said:

The Gerrard and Villa that have won as many games in 5 weeks that Ralph has inn7 months?

with an apparent lesser squad - TWar(tm)

[Neef]

Villa have a better squad and 1st XI than us. They've spent almost £300M in three years. Perspective is needed for where we are at, and where they are at.

"Villa have - somewhat incredibly and despite spending 330 million euros in the last three seasons -only brought in 11 million euros worth of sales in the same period."

https://www.marca.com/en/football/premier-league/2021/08/05/610bc633e2704e14338b45d3.html

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Neef

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

The Gerrard and Villa that have won as many games in 5 weeks that Ralph has inn7 months?

I mean, objectively untrue. Gerrard has won 4 games. We have won 5 this season including cups. In those 7 months are you including preseason friendlies? If not, it was physically impossible to win games for almost 3 of them, so a little disingenuous...

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, Neef said:

Villa have a better squad and 1st XI than us. They've spent almost £300M in three years. Perspective is needed for where we are at, and where they are at.

"Villa have - somewhat incredibly and despite spending 330 million euros in the last three seasons -only brought in 11 million euros worth of sales in the same period."

https://www.marca.com/en/football/premier-league/2021/08/05/610bc633e2704e14338b45d3.html

This may be a little outdated, they brought in £100m this summer from one player.

Either way, I don't think they have a better squad or better first 11. Some of the money they spent was comical. Almost £40m on Buendia, £40m on Mings, almost £20m on Targett etc.

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

This may be a little outdated, they brought in £100m this summer from one player.

Either way, I don't think they have a better squad or better first 11. Some of the money they spent was comical. Almost £40m on Buendia, £40m on Mings, almost £20m on Targett etc.

inferior squad and manager.  Well, they will probably go down then as we will not likely finish much above 17th

[TWar]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

inferior squad and manager.  Well, they will probably go down then as we will not likely finish much above 17th

I think we'll both finish between 12th and 16th with maybe 5 points between us at most. I rate us to finish higher though as we are better imo.

[Toussaint]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

We shall see. To be honest I think Villa have been quite fortunate. I know some people hate these stats but the expected points for this season (points if expected goals had happened) has us as the third most underperforming side (behind brentford and palace), underperforming by 4.7 points and Villa as the third most overperforming side by 3.2 points behind Chelsea and United. I expect teams to regress to the statistical mean a little tbh. Full table here if people are interested: https://understat.com/league/EPL

Also a team who starts Ashley Young, Matt Targett, and Mings every week isn't one we should see as out of our league.

Thinking about your last bit, I don't like Mings, but I think he's a good center back. Looking at their key positions, Ings, Watkins, Mings, Martinez, McGinn, I'd have all of those as first choice in our team. Moving the argument a little, I expect Gerrard was given a bit of a budget to improve the weakest positions (Targett) etc. Whatever happens this season, I'm convinced they will finish comfortably  higher than us, and unlike us, they are on the way up.  

[TWar]

23 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Thinking about your last bit, I don't like Mings, but I think he's a good center back. Looking at their key positions, Ings, Watkins, Mings, Martinez, McGinn, I'd have all of those as first choice in our team. Moving the argument a little, I expect Gerrard was given a bit of a budget to improve the weakest positions (Targett) etc. Whatever happens this season, I'm convinced they will finish comfortably  higher than us, and unlike us, they are on the way up.  

Of those, I'd have Martinez and Ings. Watkins isn't as effective a partner for Ings as Che is so you could play him as a lone striker but I think I prefer the Adams Ings partnership, Mings is pretty useless, definitely wouldn't have him over Salisu who is our LCB, I'd have Konsa as our RCB in a heartbeat. McGinn plays the JWP role for them (not the pure DM) and the disparity in class between those two is massive. JWP is about 100 miles ahead imo. My combined team would be:

Martinez

Tino Konsa Salisu KWP

Romeu JWP

Bailly Buendia

Ings Adams

And honestly, that's generous to Buendia as Stu isn't fit and on form this season. If he was I'd put him ahead of Buendia at the moment certainly. Also, while Ings Adams is definitely the best first choice forward pairing from the two sides, I still am not convinced Ings will outscore Armstrong/Broja (whoever nails the forward spot down) as he is crocked. If he stays fit he should but that is something of a task for him.

This "they are on the way up" is something I heard their fans say a lot in the summer, they certainly don't look better than last season to me. They seem to have regressed massively.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by TWar

[Toussaint]

11 minutes ago, TWar said:

Of those, I'd have Martinez and Ings. Watkins is showing at the moment he isn't as effective a partner as Che is, Mings is pretty useless, definitely wouldn't have him over Salisu who is our LCB, I'd have Konsa as our RCB in a heartbeat. McGinn plays the JWP role for them (not the pure DM) and the disparity in class between those two is massive. JWP is about 100 miles ahead imo. My combined team would be:

Martinez

Tino Konsa Salisu KWP

Romeu JWP

Bailly Buendia

Ings Adams

And honestly, that's generous to Buendia as Stu isn't fit and on form this season. If he was I'd put him ahead of Buendia at the moment certainly. Also, while Ings Adams is definitely the best first choice forward pairing from the two sides, I still am not convinced Ings will outscore Armstrong/Broja (whoever nails the forward spot down) as he is crocked. If he stays fit he should but that is something of a task for him.

This "they are on the way up" is something I heard their fans say a lot in the summer, they certainly don't look better than last season to me. They seem to have regressed massively.

THe reason Id have McGinn is his resilience of character, which we lack

[TWar]

Just now, Toussaint said:

THe reason Id have McGinn is his resilience of character, which we lack

His character wasn't so resilient in the 5 game losing spree which got Smith sacked. He was woeful against us in Smiths last game, misplacing everything. Romeu and JWP bossed that midfield battle.

[Neef]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

This may be a little outdated, they brought in £100m this summer from one player.

Either way, I don't think they have a better squad or better first 11. Some of the money they spent was comical. Almost £40m on Buendia, £40m on Mings, almost £20m on Targett etc.

"And though that might be offset by the impending 120 million euro departure of Jack Grealish to Manchester City, Villa would still be in the top three for net spend over the past three seasons with that money banked.

Look back even further to the last five seasons and Villa are in the top five for net spend even then, despite spending two of those campaigns in the Championship."

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, Neef said:

"And though that might be offset by the impending 120 million euro departure of Jack Grealish to Manchester City, Villa would still be in the top three for net spend over the past three seasons with that money banked.

Look back even further to the last five seasons and Villa are in the top five for net spend even then, despite spending two of those campaigns in the Championship."

Oh OK, cool. Yeah their net spend was nuts for 2 seasons but unfortunately they are the second worst team effected by FFP right now so the spending will have to stop pronto, just like Everton have had to. This was kind of shown in the summer where they actually made a profit on transfers. We aren't in a great spot either, but tbh the £37m of wiggle room we have we aren't spending regardless.

I think this might be why people think Villa are on the up, they spent big two seasons on the bounce and maybe people assume they will keep doing so until they are a european side but there are rules against such things, unfortunately for them.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by TWar

[st alex]

On 12/11/2021 at 11:42, Saint86 said:

At no point have I said that Gerrard's success at Rangers means he is a top manager.... 😅 how did you read what i put and come out with that? 🙈

I've just said that I think Gerrard has done all that he can in Rangers, and that moving to villa is a logical step up and shows he is ambitious and willing to stretch himself. I've not said that he's been good at Rangers so will automatically be good at Villa - just that the only way develop and test someone's ability is is to challenge them. And Villa (and the prem) are the step up for Gerrard in challenging his managerial ability.

He wants the Liverpool job ultimately. Proving himself at Rangers was a start, and he's now chosen to go to Villa as the next rung on the ladder in developing and demonstrating his managerial ability. He's doing it the right way unlike Lampard who just went straight to Chelsea with little experience. Ditto Viera is proving himself the right way after cutting his teeth at a lower level and now palace - when Arteta goes at Arsenal he will be very well set if he continues as he is atm.

Also, there is absolutely no requirement to be remotely competent to be the England manager. Southgate sets that bar incredibly low. If the job was available right now and Gerrard applied i'd wager he'd have a good chance to get it after his success at Rangers.

 

Quote

I don't think you can call it a one horse race in Scotland? Celtic had won the last 9 consecutive seasons. He ended that and went unbeaten... Personally think Gerrard will do pretty well there... He'll likely manage Liverpool and/or England one day...

Reading between the lines that seemed to be what you were alluding to. Think you'd have to be more than decent to get the Liverpool and/or England manager job in the future. Klopp and Southgate have been the most successful managers in those roles in the last 30 years by far. Not really interested in splitting hairs over what defines a top manager or good manager or whatever.

My point was that I think it's far too early to be lining up top jobs for managers still cutting their teeth. It feels like there's a large degree of bias based on them having had a good playing career at a top club. Even the other managers you've used as compassions reinforce this (Vieira, Arteta, and Lampard). 

The likes of Darren Moore and Scott Parker I think have done excellent jobs as up and coming managers but they're not even getting what you're calling 'lower level jobs' (which are actually at mid-table PL clubs) because they don't have the reputations or connections or whatever from their playing careers. They're having to get actual lower level jobs and are having success yet I'm not seeing them touted as future England or Champions League level managers.

Lampard came in to Chelsea and did alright for a bit steading the ship before floundering. Gerrard, Vieira and Arteta have been chucked in and are just treading water for the time being, time will tell whether they sink or swim. I'm happy to wait and see how they do before preempting them into a top job or writing them off. I just think it's far too early to be lining Gerrard up as the future Liverpool manager, I know he's a one club man who was a great player for them, but as we've just seen with Solskjaer it takes that bit more to be successful at that level as a manager.

I would imagine that for both Vieira and Gerrard their time at Villa and Palace will end either in success and they'll leave because they're offered a bigger job, or they'll be sacked because they're at the wrong end of the table. So far the assumption seems to be that they can only go upwards.

We've seen in recent years that many of the best managers were rubbish players, or didn't play at all (Klopp, Tuchel, Sarri, etc). Maybe being a Saints fan means I'm biased for underdogs and the under rated but I'd sooner talk up the likes of Graham Potter or Scott Parker as future England mangers than preempting Stephen Gerrard.

[Saint86]

3 hours ago, st alex said:

Reading between the lines that seemed to be what you were alluding to. Think you'd have to be more than decent to get the Liverpool and/or England manager job in the future. Klopp and Southgate have been the most successful managers in those roles in the last 30 years by far.

I enjoy the discussion Alex, but that's not at all what I was trying to say! I think you've misunderstood me. I was just saying that I think Gerrard has achieved what he can in Scotland, and that he's recognised it and taken the step to try out a midtable prem side. If he wants to develop his skills and reputation thats the way to do it - although riskier than staying at rangers for a few more seasons.

On your point about saying that the england job requires a "top manager" - lets just take Southgate, he should be nowhere near the England job quality wise, and i'd argue a better manager would have won one of the last two tournaments (fuck it i'd argue BFS would have done better and been more exciting) - the sad face is he gets the job because top managers don't seem to really go for international football (at least for England). But Southgate isn't a top manager, should never even be classed in the same sentence as "top manager" and wouldn't get near a top club in England - surely you aren't going to argue that? Its a shame because we'll never get as good a chance to win a major tournament as the last two tournaments and we had southgate spaffing it up the wall with his 7RB's and appalling game managerment vs inferior italy and coratia sides.

3 hours ago, st alex said:

My point was that I think it's far too early to be lining up top jobs for managers still cutting their teeth. It feels like there's a large degree of bias based on them having had a good playing career at a top club. Even the other managers you've used as compassions reinforce this (Vieira, Arteta, and Lampard). 

We agree? Hence me trying to say Gerrard is taking the appropriate steps in moving to Villa to grow into being a top manager 🤷‍♂️ I have never rated Lampard. And Arteta is learning whilst skirting the very fringes of getting sacked. Gerrard going to villa is an appropriate level for him imo.
 

3 hours ago, st alex said:

The likes of Darren Moore and Scott Parker I think have done excellent jobs as up and coming managers but they're not even getting what you're calling 'lower level jobs' (which are actually at mid-table PL clubs) because they don't have the reputations or connections or whatever from their playing careers. They're having to get actual lower level jobs and are having success yet I'm not seeing them touted as future England or Champions League level managers.

I broadly agree and didn't argue different  Moore is okay but hasn't set the world alight. Scott Parker looks to be a very promising manager. But he needs to step up to prove it. Bournemouth was a shrewd move if he gets them promoted, but if he doesn't you've got to think he'll be looking for a villa level job. Who knows, we might end up with him at saints if Ralph gets chopped?

3 hours ago, st alex said:

I would imagine that for both Vieira and Gerrard their time at Villa and Palace will end either in success and they'll leave because they're offered a bigger job, or they'll be sacked because they're at the wrong end of the table. So far the assumption seems to be that they can only go upwards.

We've seen in recent years that many of the best managers were rubbish players, or didn't play at all (Klopp, Tuchel, Sarri, etc). Maybe being a Saints fan means I'm biased for underdogs and the under rated but I'd sooner talk up the likes of Graham Potter or Scott Parker as future England mangers than preempting Stephen Gerrard.

So - Playing devils advocate, thats generally what happens to managers unless they get old and retire at a club 😅 Ala Hodgson (would you argue he was a top manager?)  / Ferguson.

Is your issue here that Ole and Lampard were shit and its colouring your view of all managers? 😆 Because equally Guardiola, Zidane, Pochetino, Conte, Bobby Robson, Dalglish, Simeone, Clough, Ancelotti, Beckenbauer, Cruyff (to name a few) and even Koeman (less so) were all superb players that did pretty well as managers? The reality is that managers have to take steps up to prove themselves. And whilst none of them should have a right to walk into top clubs, Gerrard at Villa / Parker at Fulham + Bournemouth / Viera at Palace are all more appropriate than Lampard's apointment at Chelsea after one season / OLE at United after Molde.. Which I think we agree on? 

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Saint86