Mental Health Discussion

[badgerx16]

7 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Nobody tell him we’re here. I’ll jingle my car keys to distract him.

So it's one of THOSE parties !

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It is relevant to the thread. We are talking about how men have been taught not to express their emotions and are sometimes ridiculed when they do.( Whatever others think, the Liverpool result clearly meant a great deal to him).

Men are less likely to express their emotions because they often don't want to share their emotions in the same way that women do. Many men don't want to be lectured about expressing their emotions all the time. They relieve stress and overcome adversity in different ways to women on average. 

[egg]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Men are less likely to express their emotions because they often don't want to share their emotions in the same way that women do. Many men don't want to be lectured about expressing their emotions all the time. They relieve stress and overcome adversity in different ways to women on average. 

Sog's point is a good one though, men get ridiculed for showing emotion, thus does it not follow that they'll bottle up negative feelings and suffer in silence? Isn't it better out than in? 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Yep. Ralph crying ain't a sign of a mental attitude illness or weakness. It's a bloke showing his emotions. What I disagree with is criticism of him for displaying his emotions. Crying isn't necessary, but if that's his reaction, it's nobody else's business. 

If I get angry in a meeting at work should I just let out all of my rage for health reasons?

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

If I get angry in a meeting at work should I just let out all of my rage for health reasons?

I'm inclined to say, 'yes and report back' TBH.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Sog's point is a good one though, men get ridiculed for showing emotion, thus does it not follow that they'll bottle up negative feelings and suffer in silence? Isn't it better out than in? 

Not all men release negative feelings by discussing how they are feeling all the time. Look at boxing for example and the amount of men who have credited it with saving their lives. So yes better to release your emotions, it's just not always necessary to achieve that by talking about them and having a cry. 

Edited 6 November, 2021 by hypochondriac

[egg]

21 minutes ago, whelk said:

If I get angry in a meeting at work should I just let out all of my rage for health reasons?

Stay on subject. At a funeral and you felt like crying, would you be conscious of it and fight it, or let it out? 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Stay on subject. At a funeral and you felt like crying, would you be conscious of it and fight it, or let it out? 

Depends doesn't it. I'd normally have a quiet cry but I'd probably resist the urge to start bawling my eyes out or wailing. Interesting because I attended a funeral this week and faced that very situation. 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not all men release negative feelings by discussing how they are feeling all the time. Look at boxing for example and the amount of men who have credited it with saving their lives 

Sure, I've boxed all my life, and have used the punchbag as a release of frustration and anger. If that's not used, or speaking, what then, bottle it up? Drink? Self harm? Worse?

We're still seemingly at the point on here that "men are men" so should just suck it up and get on it. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Depends doesn't it. I'd normally have a quiet cry but I'd probably resist the urge to start bawling my eyes out or wailing. Interesting because I attended a funeral this week and faced that very situation. 

Why resist the urge? Aren't we back to  pride and ego? 

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not all men release negative feelings by discussing how they are feeling all the time. Look at boxing for example and the amount of men who have credited it with saving their lives 

I did hear one person claim that football hooliganism was in essence a ‘mentally healthy’ pastime for young men. It indulges the natural instincts of tribal togetherness and fighting physically for superiority. I’m not sure anything like that has ever passed a credible, peer reviewed study but it’s an interesting theory.

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, egg said:

Sure, I've boxed all my life, and have used the punchbag as a release of frustration and anger. If that's not used, or speaking, what then, bottle it up? Drink? Self harm? Worse?

We're still seemingly at the point on here that "men are men" so should just suck it up and get on it. 

But I've never said "all men" have I? Sure for some men they might fancy a chat about their feelings or a cry but I'd wager that's probably the minority and I think it's worth acknowledging that there are other perfectly healthy ways that men cure mental health issues that don't involve chatting or crying. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

But I've never said "all men" have I? Sure for some men they might fancy a chat about their feelings or a cry but I'd wager that's probably the minority and I think it's worth acknowledging that there are other perfectly healthy ways that men cure mental health issues that don't involve chatting or crying. 

I'm with you on the variety of ways point, but let's not be dismissive of two of those ways. 

[whelk]

13 minutes ago, egg said:

Stay on subject. At a funeral and you felt like crying, would you be conscious of it and fight it, or let it out? 

It is on subject. There are societal norms that we conform to and whilst they may inhibit in some ways people know also where they stand and I am largely comfortable with them and as far as I know am not suppressing emotions to build up mental health issues.

I genuinely have very little urge to want to cry in public although actually well up easily at a drama on tv or hearing sad stories.

Funerals are often place of sadness so crying would be quite normal

[hypochondriac]

14 minutes ago, egg said:

Why resist the urge? Aren't we back to  pride and ego? 

No. I was facing the family of a young person who had died in horrible circumstances. I rightly reasoned that the funeral wasn't about me upstaging things or making it about melyself in any way. Nothing to do with pride or ego. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm with you on the variety of ways point, but let's not be dismissive of two of those ways. 

And I haven't been which is why in almost every post I've caveated by explaining that talking and crying is a valid option for some. Not sure how I've dismissed it. It's clearly of value to some. 

[whelk]

14 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I did hear one person claim that football hooliganism was in essence a ‘mentally healthy’ pastime for young men. It indulges the natural instincts of tribal togetherness and fighting physically for superiority. I’m not sure anything like that has ever passed a credible, peer reviewed study but it’s an interesting theory.

Fully understand it. There are primeval urges men have and they need outlets. Our era  is just a snapshot but probably never have men been more emasculated and confused. 

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I did hear one person claim that football hooliganism was in essence a ‘mentally healthy’ pastime for young men. It indulges the natural instincts of tribal togetherness and fighting physically for superiority. I’m not sure anything like that has ever passed a credible, peer reviewed study but it’s an interesting theory.

I could understand that. There's a line of thinking where you could just lock them in a cage and let them go at it as long as they're consenting and not hurting others. 

[The Kraken]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

We're still seemingly at the point on here that "men are men" so should just suck it up and get on it. 

I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with various of the individual posts in here, but to this point I’ll comment based on my own experience down the years (anxiety and depression). I don’t like the term “man up” but in my experience there is a bit of truth to it. We should never be scared to admit that we’re struggling, and to seek help for it when we need it in whatever form that may be. But, again in IMO, self help is the best coping mechanism there is. I’m not saying to ignore your issues and just get on with it, but to make the real effort to find the ways personal to you that make things better, and continually do them. For me, those things are often, in my mind, the things that scare me most and the things I maybe don’t immediately want to do. And while I find a little bit of comfort when I’m not in a great place to talk it through with 2 or 3 friends who experience similar feelings and therefore understand, at the end of the day I always know that’s it only me that can get me out of this hole. 

My anxiety for instance often makes me want to stick to known routines, often to not go out, not to go to work and not to see anyone at all when I’m feeling low. But I always know that the best thing to combat those fears is to force through it, and that’s what i choose to do. Being signed off from work was never an option I ever wanted to consider, simply because I truly feel it would make me feel worse and not better. 

I used to work with a girl who had anxiety too, and I used to chat with her to help her fairly regularly. My advice was always to not give in to it. Get out of bed, go to work, go and do the things you’re afraid of. And, if you do need time off, then do it but do something completely productive with it.

Just my experience of it. ‘Man up’ is a crap term but imo there’s some truth to it.

[SFC1906]

This pretty much sums up my own personal experience and I was going to write something similar - so you have saved me the time Kraken thanks😃

Talking about your issues is a massive help - but only really you as the individual have the power to get yourself through these things.

I still have the odd relapse but recognise the signs very quickly now and am therefore able to employ my coping mechanisms/strategies to get myself out of them. 

Having a very supportive and understanding partner and friends to talk to helps massively - but it is ultimately me that needs to pull myself through.

Same as others I hate the term 'Man up' mainly because that was what I was told most of my life and was absolutely partly responsible for my issues - as I just bottled things up through fear of admitting 'weakness'.

BUT the individual has take responsibility of their own mental health, the same as any other health issue, and work to make themselves better and pull through.

I do feel there is a growing tendency in society to just 'give up or give in' when faced with any kind of adversity and expect others to deal with all your issues. But once you accept that a lot of these things are actually your issues then it becomes much easier to deal with them as you are the one in control of them.

Just my thoughts and experiences and I fully accept that others will have had different experiences.

 

[sadoldgit]

20 hours ago, The Kraken said:

I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with various of the individual posts in here, but to this point I’ll comment based on my own experience down the years (anxiety and depression). I don’t like the term “man up” but in my experience there is a bit of truth to it. We should never be scared to admit that we’re struggling, and to seek help for it when we need it in whatever form that may be. But, again in IMO, self help is the best coping mechanism there is. I’m not saying to ignore your issues and just get on with it, but to make the real effort to find the ways personal to you that make things better, and continually do them. For me, those things are often, in my mind, the things that scare me most and the things I maybe don’t immediately want to do. And while I find a little bit of comfort when I’m not in a great place to talk it through with 2 or 3 friends who experience similar feelings and therefore understand, at the end of the day I always know that’s it only me that can get me out of this hole. 

My anxiety for instance often makes me want to stick to known routines, often to not go out, not to go to work and not to see anyone at all when I’m feeling low. But I always know that the best thing to combat those fears is to force through it, and that’s what i choose to do. Being signed off from work was never an option I ever wanted to consider, simply because I truly feel it would make me feel worse and not better. 

I used to work with a girl who had anxiety too, and I used to chat with her to help her fairly regularly. My advice was always to not give in to it. Get out of bed, go to work, go and do the things you’re afraid of. And, if you do need time off, then do it but do something completely productive with it.

Just my experience of it. ‘Man up’ is a crap term but imo there’s some truth to it.

I obviously can’t speak for others, but in my case I spent of great deal of time “manning up” and forcing myself to do things when it was a real struggle. The trouble is over a period of time the draining effect on me got so much that I hit a brick wall and my system just shut down. Like anything, when something is wrong and you keep forcing eventually there is a good chance that it will break. It is easier to fix something and to get it working properly again before it is completely broken. We are not the best judges of these matters, that is why it is important to get professional help if you start to feel that things are getting out of control. Unless you buddy is a mental health expert, there is no way that he can tell what is happening to you and what you need to do to deal with it. As I have said before so many family members and friends have not recognised how close their loved ones were to taking their own lives. It’s a tough enough job for a professional but at least they have the skill set required. The man up thing needs to be put into perspective. If you are worried about asking a girl you fancy to dance in case she says no, your mate is entitled to tell you to man up and do it. If you are terrified of flying and your mate says man up and get on the plane, that really isn’t helpful and you need proper help for your phobia. The phobic reactions are there for a reason, they are meant to help protect us. When phobic reactions kick in in unhelpful situations, clearly there is a problem and manning up isn’t the proper long term solution.

[The Kraken]

Not sure you’ve read or understood my post properly there.  I thought I was clear in saying “We should never be scared to admit that we’re struggling, and to seek help for it when we need it in whatever form that may be.”

Your post focuses on only speaking to friends as the way forward. It isn’t, and I wasn’t suggesting only that.

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

Not sure you’ve read or understood my post properly there.  I thought I was clear in saying “We should never be scared to admit that we’re struggling, and to seek help for it when we need it in whatever form that may be.”

Your post focuses on only speaking to friends as the way forward. It isn’t, and I wasn’t suggesting only that.

Yes I am confused as I am not saying that talking to friends is the way forward?Talking to anybody about your problems has to be good but if you are having suicidal thoughts you really, ultimately, need to be talking to your doctor or mental health professionals.Your friends may offer support but they can’t prescribe meds or provide you with the access to the therapy that is best for your condition. I think we have probably confused each other and are on the same page.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Yes I am confused as I am not saying that talking to friends is the way forward?Talking to anybody about your problems has to be good but if you are having suicidal thoughts you really, ultimately, need to be talking to your doctor or mental health professionals.Your friends may offer support but they can’t prescribe meds or provide you with the access to the therapy that is best for your condition. I think we have probably confused each other and are on the same page.

Why are you talking about suicidal thoughts? Kraken didn't mention that. 

[buctootim]

9 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Why are you talking about suicidal thoughts? Kraken didn't mention that. 

The more relevant question is why you  still need to try and pick holes or interpret someone’s views negatively even on a thread about mental health and even when two posters have opened up about their struggles. Sometimes consider stfu as an option 
 

 

[hypochondriac]

55 minutes ago, buctootim said:

The more relevant question is why you  still need to try and pick holes or interpret someone’s views negatively even on a thread about mental health and even when two posters have opened up about their struggles. Sometimes consider stfu as an option 
 

 

Because kraken didn't say don't seek professional help if you have suicidal thoughts. He made an interesting point about dealing with any issues he has and the point he has made has been misinterpreted. Unfortunate that you're trying to derail the thread which had been quite a good discussion up until this point. Maybe take some of your own advice. 

Edited 8 November, 2021 by hypochondriac

[Lighthouse]

11 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Why are you talking about suicidal thoughts? Kraken didn't mention that. 

He didn’t but I think SOGs point is a reasonable progression of that chain of thought. He hasn’t said anything unreasonable IMO.

[hypochondriac]

30 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

He didn’t but I think SOGs point is a reasonable progression of that chain of thought. He hasn’t said anything unreasonable IMO.

And TBF I never claimed it was unreasonable, simply that that isn't what kraken was saying. Kraken makes a good point about the value of self resilience and I completely agree that there's a real value in it. Professional help or talking about feelings is not the only solution and should not be viewed as a magic bullet for the reasons already discussed in this thread. Just worth emphasising that.

[Wiggles31]

Interesting thread guys. Just FYI;
 

The Lighthouse is a crisis cafe in Southampton which can accessed out of hours if someone is in distress/feeling suicidal. Also a better to option to going to A&E (unless you need medical attention) as they can link you into services without the horrendous wait and stress of A&E. 

https://www.solentmind.org.uk/support-for-you/our-services/the-lighthouse/

iTalk is also a self-referral service to access CBT in Hampshire. 
https://www.italk.org.uk/self-referral/

Every area will have a crisis line (just google mental health crisis line in my area) who can be reached for advice and support. 

A good GP should point these out but often don’t and just prescribe and send you on your way. 

 

 

Edited 12 November, 2021 by Wiggles31

[whelk]

Documentary on young people’s mental health on BBC now highlighting how stretched CAMHS is

[sadoldgit]

33 minutes ago, whelk said:

Documentary on young people’s mental health on BBC now highlighting how stretched CAMHS is

You beat me to it Whelk. Excellent programme and yes, it shows just how the NHS can’t cope with this and what a huge problem this is.

[Picard]

New menu of treatment options for those suffering from depression

More therapy, less pills?

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Picard said:

New menu of treatment options for those suffering from depression

More therapy, less pills?

Good. For too long now doctors have been lazily prescribing antidepressants as a one size fits all remedy, with too little thought of the consequences of creating a dependency on them.

Literally everyone I know who has ever gone on 'a short course' of ADs is still on them to this day. My wife included. The first time she tried to come off them (Citalopram) she suffered a severe psychotic episode from the withdrawal. She had weaned herself down to a much smaller dose now, but she's still dependent on it.

ADs work for some people, but for many others they have caused more problems than they have solved.

[whelk]

10 years ago Gary Speed died

 

[The Kraken]

Still remember him whacking in a long ranger against us at the Dell, it absolutely flew in. Such a sad story, RIP. Great reaction from the Leeds fans.

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Still remember him whacking in a long ranger against us at the Dell, it absolutely flew in. Such a sad story, RIP. Great reaction from the Leeds fans.

That was when they beat us 4-0 the year they win the league. He was a great player and a great guy, really sad. 

[benjii]

I remember that day well. Albert Adomah tore us a new arse at Bristol City.

[The Cat]

This is nice.

 

 

[Saint Mikey]

Interesting thread. Some of you guys may enjoy Ryan Holiday's material. I have read three of his books and they have fundamentally changed the way I view stresses/challenges in my life. His lessons are aligned mostly with Stoicism principles and draw on a millennia of examples, including Marcus Aurelius, Lincoln, Edison, Steve Jobs, Richard Branson etc.

The biggest thing I've taken from them is the self-awareness and the sense of personal responsibility that it encourages, particularly the book on ego. He also has a podcast 'The Daily Stoic' and has done the rounds on loads of others including Rangan Chatterjee, Tim Ferris etc.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18668059-the-obstacle-is-the-way?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=rgykQklapo&rank=1

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27036528-ego-is-the-enemy?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=rgykQklapo&rank=2

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43582733-stillness-is-the-key?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=rgykQklapo&rank=4

Edited 23 December, 2021 by Saint Mikey

[Turkish]

I just listened to a very interesting podcast with Dan Carter, All Blacks legend, made a very good point that 25 years ago if anyone in Rugby went to see a pyschiatrist everyone would think there was something wrong with them, these days if you dont they think there is something wrong with them. He also directly attributes the all black failure in 2007 v success in 2011 down to their mentality, they believed if they trained more they'd win the world cup easily when it was their mentality of freezing when the going got tough, for 2011 they brought in a psychologist who absolutely transformed the teams mindset. I know its on a slightly different tangent to the theme but shows how attitudes have changed over the years and how much of a difference the right mentality can make to performance. 

[whelk]

I know all this sports psychology and visualisation works for some but in a 100m sprint someone will always come last even if they are all visualising coming first.

I just look in the mirror each morning and chant Whelk you are a winner for a minute. 

Although in terms of inspiring quotes I do like Eleanor Roosevelt’s: “no one can make you feel inferior without your consent”

 

Edited 26 January, 2022 by whelk

[whelk]

Maybe if wasn’t open season for the fraudsters we might have some money to fund critical services. Sunak seems to be an illusionist getting his customary free ride from most of the press. Maybe the cost of living shock will wake up some of the electorate. Doubt if though 

 https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/apr/03/swamped-nhs-mental-health-services-turning-away-children-say-doctors

[Sheaf Saint]

Dominic Calvert-Lewin: Everton striker says talking about mental struggles 'saved my life' - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/61559088

Very interesting, and powerful. It's all too easy to criticise footballers for not having the right mindset, but they are still only human after all. 

Many dismissed DCL this season as not being focused and eyeing up his next move, but this puts his season in a completely different perspective.

[whelk]

Interesting discussion yesterday on Newsagents podcast. Made me think I need to be more sympathetic and understanding. Clearly complex but funding shortage is a travesty.

 

[OldNick]

On 27/11/2021 at 16:09, whelk said:

10 years ago Gary Speed died

 

I often wonder if he had a dark secret that played on his mind as he was coached as a kid by one of those paedophiles. He was a great player and a credit to himself and family

[Turkish]

On 27/11/2021 at 19:18, The Kraken said:

Still remember him whacking in a long ranger against us at the Dell, it absolutely flew in. Such a sad story, RIP. Great reaction from the Leeds fans.

Was that when he scored two in a 4-0 win for Leeds the year they won’t be title? Night game. What a player and what a guy. People up this way still speak about him with great affection. He was a regular customer in a clothes shop my now wife used to work in. Always charming and polite. 

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Was that when he scored two in a 4-0 win for Leeds the year they won’t be title? Night game. What a player and what a guy. People up this way still speak about him with great affection. He was a regular customer in a clothes shop my now wife used to work in. Always charming and polite. 

That’s the one. They decimated us that game. Speed’s goal from 55 seconds.

 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

I often wonder if he had a dark secret that played on his mind as he was coached as a kid by one of those paedophiles. He was a great player and a credit to himself and family

sadly there are some rumours in this area, not what you suggest but some other stuff which would have similar effect. I wont share what they are as they are just rumours. 

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

That’s the one. They decimated us that game. Speed’s goal from 55 seconds.

 

they were brilliant that night and so was he. Class player, he was in a midfield with McCallister, Batty and Strachan which had a bit of everything. I also remember how loud their fans were, they had a reputation back then after what had happened at Bournemouth but they filled most of the archers for a night game and were probably the loudest support i'd heard at the point.

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

they were brilliant that night and so was he. Class player, he was in a midfield with McCallister, Batty and Strachan which had a bit of everything. I also remember how loud their fans were, they had a reputation back then after what had happened at Bournemouth but they filled most of the archers for a night game and were probably the loudest support i'd heard at the point.

If Baz let that 4th in there would be posts saying he had made a mistake!!