Saints 1-0 Villa - Match Thread

[Streaky]

Saints you were the best I've seen 1st half in a very long time. Should have been more by half time but we dug in 2nd half. Overall dare I say it ralph maybe on to something!

[verlaine1979]

Did Che actually get the touch before the goal? On US TV it looked like it bounced off the defender, but they may not have shown the same angles.

[VictiAbNonem]

1 minute ago, verlaine1979 said:

Did Che actually get the touch before the goal? On US TV it looked like it bounced off the defender, but they may not have shown the same angles.

BBC aren't showing him for the assist either.

I thought he'd got a really good touch in, but I was watching on a smaller screen than usual.

[qwertyell]

Have to be happy with the win to cap off a decent run of results. Deserved points on the back of a dominant first half.

The second half, though, was the worst we've played all season. Worse than Everton away. We just lost all control of the game from minute 45 and our composure and decision making followed suit. So many heavy touches and misplaced passes.

It wasn't a great suprise - we ended the Watford game in a similar panic. 

Livramento, Bednarek, Sarmstrong were really poor - Salisu a mix of great interceptions and suicidal passing.

And yet McCarthy had nothing to do. A very strange game all round.

Good for Aarmstrong getting back in the goals again. After a rough period wondering who was going to score for us, we've suddenly got three strikers in a bit of goalscoring form. That's got to be positive.

And Lyanco getting some more minutes (and only dropping one bollock) can't be a bad thing.

Let's hope for a quiet international break and go bank another three points at Norwich.

 

 

[stknowle]

22 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

Well we barely had the ball second half so Moi just wasn't going to do much. Thought he was really positive first half. Everyone was. That first half is how I hoped we'd play without Redmond. None of the constant dallying on the ball, cutting back, letting their defence regroup. 

We didn't take advantage enough as KWP has no left foot. Not his fault, terrific player but had so much space but ended up very quickly easy to defend against. Perraud would have had a field day first half. 

Second half was awful but we got away with it. Good defending and villa being awful in the final third. Still nervous with McCarthy hesitant all the time. Never going to feel calm in a 1-0 lead. 

Overall got to be chuffed with another win but we're clearly a work in progress. Need to remain calm on the ball second half and use Perraud more.

You know what Adrian, I really agree with you about KWP, was going to post similar during the match but couldn't find the right words to articulate it in the heat of battle. He's such a tricky skillful little player, gets into good positions but down the left his 'rightfootedness' leads to a little attempt to slip in a pass with his right when the situation demands a left footed cross. None of this woulda been a consideration if it weren't for that meddling Livramento although he was oddly quiet tonight tbf.

[SaintBobby]

Fantastic atmosphere this evening. Solid performance. To pick holes, I guess you’d say we struggle to ever score more than 1 goal, but that aside it was a bit like the Leeds win. Oddly comfortable even with SEVEN minutes of stoppage time.

Romeu and Salisu were the stand outs for me.

Salisu is starting to look like the perfect genetic merger of Virgil VD and Wanyama!

[rallyboy]

Great finish, terrible ref, three points, nice.

Danny who?

[SaintBobby]

Only watched the game live at the stadium, so am still scratching my head on Lyanco on for Sarmstrong. Any insights in what happened there? I assumed 3 at the back to release Timo and KWP down the flanks? If so, it didn’t work.

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

Only watched the game live at the stadium, so am still scratching my head on Lyanco on for Sarmstrong. Any insights in what happened there? I assumed 3 at the back to release Timo and KWP down the flanks? If so, it didn’t work.

It quite clearly did work. We were much more solid after Lyanco and then Diallo came on. 

[macca155]

Just back M27 closed, had to go old school route.

Great win, I was worried Villa would up their game against Saints. Backs against the wall and all out.

That lasted 3 minutes😀 Great 1st half. Some lovely football. They were always going to go for it 2nd half as they are no mugs. Saints got down and ugly and comfortably held Villa at bay.

Villa should have been down to 10. Utter bottle job from the ref.

Great shift from Adams and I like the cut of Lyanco's jib. Don't think Bendarek does though. Dropped him right in it at the end.

[sydney_saint]

Maybe I am just becoming long in the tooth. But this kinda analysis fucking pisses me off. I don't think we are necessarily playing any better than we did in our opening games, just the level of opposition has gone down. The modern analysis seems to focus simply on W, D and L and no context. You could lose back to back to back games against City, Chelsea and Liverpool, and the media will be putting pressure on the manager for not getting points on the board. And if you beat watford, norwich and Brentford in consquetive games, you are on track to win the fucking league and do a Leicester. 

The simple analysis is that we played harder teams to start of, and whilst some were pissing their pants, we did well to get some points on the board. Now the games are easier, we are putting more points on.(this also goes for those wetting themselves thinking we play better without JWP cos he missed our easiest game of the season and we won). Likewise the opposite with Villa. I am now always flabbergasted by the sheer basic level of analysis that comes from the media. Villa were ahead because of fixtures, not because they were playing any better than us.

 

P.s. This was very satisfying. I will never in my life forget this not given as a penalty 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 November, 2021 by sydney_saint

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

Maybe I am just becoming long in the tooth. But this kinda analysis fucking pisses me off. I don't think we are necessarily playing any better than we did in our opening games, just the level of opposition has gone down. The modern analysis seems to focus simply on W, D and L and no context. You could lose back to back to back games against City, Chelsea and Liverpool, and the media will be putting pressure on the manager for not getting points on the board. And if you beat watford, norwich and Brentford in consquetive games, you are on track to win the fucking league and do a Leicester. 

The simple analysis is that we played harder teams to start of, and whilst some were pissing their pants, we did well to get some points on the board. Now the games are easier, we are putting more points on.(this also goes for those wetting themselves thinking we play better without JWP cos he missed our easiest game of the season and we won). Likewise the opposite with Villa. I am now always flabbergasted by the sheer basic level of analysis that comes from the media. Villa were ahead because of fixtures, not because they were playing any better than us.

See my season starts now thread to confirm this analysis. I had seen enough from those early games to offer encouragement to suggest we would start picking up some useful points and we've surpassed that so far. It's lazy to suggest we've suddenly got miles better without taking into account the quality of opposition. 

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It quite clearly did work. We were much more solid after Lyanco and then Diallo came on. 

I agree, I don't see by what metric it didn't work. I thought they were the right subs at the right time. Stu and Moi clearly needed to come off and Ralph did just that. Broja at the end gave them something new to think about defensively. Three at the back neutralised their early second half momentum and we kept a clean sheet. It wasn't pretty but I'm not sure what else you could ask for.

As Redknapp and Merse alluded to after, it's easy to start playing when you're a goal behind and have nothing to lose. If this game had been the other way around, this place would be screaming that:
A) We were abysmal first half, Ralph got the tactics completely wrong and they should have been 3 goals and a man ahead by half time.

B) Second half was a bit better but it could hardly have been much worse and for all our possession we rarely troubled their 'keeper.

[warsash saint]

1 hour ago, VictiAbNonem said:

Livramento didn't have his best game, but for the first half hour I thought he looked the best player on the pitch

I dont not what game you were watching .... he hardly touched the ball in the first half & when he did, he lost possession!

[MAY-Z]

3 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

I dont not what game you were watching .... he hardly touched the ball in the first half & when he did, he lost possession!

23 touches first half, 3 lost possessions with 2 of those 3 being crosses in our box.

what I liked was the goal came from a haphazard ball forward, Che occupies 2 defenders then a great finish, we spend so much time trying for controlled perfect buildup that defenders have time to react too, the hurried ball also hurries defenders.

Is a bit of a concern how poor we were for the first 10 mins of the second half though

[whelk]

Are Villa going to get a points deduction for fielding the suspended McGinn?

[woodsaint1]

1 hour ago, qwertyell said:

Have to be happy with the win to cap off a decent run of results. Deserved points on the back of a dominant first half.

The second half, though, was the worst we've played all season. Worse than Everton away. We just lost all control of the game from minute 45 and our composure and decision making followed suit. So many heavy touches and misplaced passes.

It wasn't a great suprise - we ended the Watford game in a similar panic. 

Livramento, Bednarek, Sarmstrong were really poor - Salisu a mix of great interceptions and suicidal passing.

And yet McCarthy had nothing to do. A very strange game all round.

Good for Aarmstrong getting back in the goals again. After a rough period wondering who was going to score for us, we've suddenly got three strikers in a bit of goalscoring form. That's got to be positive.

And Lyanco getting some more minutes (and only dropping one bollock) can't be a bad thing.

Let's hope for a quiet international break and go bank another three points at Norwich.

 

 

Bednarek doesnt half get some shit on here. He was very solid tonight I thought, definitely not 'really poor'. In fact none of our players were really poor. Villa on the other hand

[Saint Keef]

After tonight, the ones I really feel sorry for are the "Ralph Bashers". Compounded by the fact that they haven't been able to blame Jack Stephens for anything for a number of weeks, they now can't have a go at Alex for keeping another clean sheet, they can't blame Redmond for anything because he's got Covid and didn't play, and Adam Armstrong's goal proves he is obviously only Championship level. I mean, how on earth are these people going to occupy their minds over the weekend and into the International break?   

[CylonKing]

So, back at the hotel after what can only be described as a great night (thank you Rockstone & Black Phoenix). First half was great, the best we've played that I can remember seeing us since the Promotion seasons. 2nd half was tighter but to be honest, Villa never looked like scoring. The big problem I have is the faff with throw ins, corners and free kicks. We....are....so....slow....at....taking....yawn.... I've bored myself now. Just hurry it up. Once they are in position, you are unlikely to score. Get on with it. Rather 2-0 than watching you lot handing a ball back and forth to build up 7 mins of injury time. Anyway, it's a win and it was FANTASTIC to be back at St Mary's again...and the brass band at the front of the stadium and along the pitch were brilliant. 😁

P.S. Rom was superb, a few loose passes but a proper midfield performance for the team. 🌟

 

[CylonKing]

2 minutes ago, Saint Keef said:

After tonight, the ones I really feel sorry for are the "Ralph Bashers". Compounded by the fact that they haven't been able to blame Jack Stephens for anything for a number of weeks, they now can't have a go at Alex for keeping another clean sheet, they can't blame Redmond for anything because he's got Covid and didn't play, and Adam Armstrong's goal proves he is obviously only Championship level. I mean, how on earth are these people going to occupy their minds over the weekend and into the International break?   

Stuart's hair was a bit lacklustre tonight I thought.

[SaintBobby]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

It quite clearly did work. We were much more solid after Lyanco and then Diallo came on. 

Yeah, you may be missing the point. We were 1-0 up when the substitution was made. We ended up winning 1-0. I understood that from watching the game at St Mary's.

My question was what was the rationale for the substiution. S Armstrong off for a central defender seemed like a very big tactical call.

[Jimmy_D]

2 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

Yeah, you may be missing the point. We were 1-0 up when the substitution was made. We ended up winning 1-0. I understood that from watching the game at St Mary's.

My question was what was the rationale for the substiution. S Armstrong off for a central defender seemed like a very big tactical call.

Start of the second half we were getting overrun because their wing backs were pushing forward far more aggressively. Switching to three at the back allowed us to counter that by pushing our own wing backs more aggressively and forcing them to defend more. We looked far more stable against them after making that change.

[SaintBobby]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Start of the second half we were getting overrun because their wing backs were pushing forward far more aggressively. Switching to three at the back allowed us to counter that by pushing our own wing backs more aggressively and forcing them to defend more. We looked far more stable against them after making that change.

I get that. As it happened, I don't think we got KWP or Tino to be more aggresive, I think we just went deepet. Then Diallo coming on was even more defensive.

It worked cos we won. But felt to me like we should have been out of sight in 30 mins...and ended up defending the 1-0 very hard in the olast 30 mins.

[austsaint]

39 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

Yeah, you may be missing the point. We were 1-0 up when the substitution was made. We ended up winning 1-0. I understood that from watching the game at St Mary's.

My question was what was the rationale for the substiution. S Armstrong off for a central defender seemed like a very big tactical call.

I thought Ralph's rationale was fine.   S. Armstrong was not at his best tonight.   We were under threat for the first 10-15 minutes of the second half, thus the timing and tactic of bringing on Lyanco was sound.   We still had the attacking threat from our full backs, and the later subs of Diallo for a fading Elyounoussi and a fresh Broja for A.A. strengthened our defence but maintained a counter-attack balance.

[Gingeletiss]

Here's the thing, we have won three drawn five, lost three. Only six teams in the PL have lost less than three games, if two of them draws were wins,  we would be top 5, so I think we are doing OK given our first fixtures.

[JRM]

7 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Over the moon with the win of course, and again it’s a better result than the corresponding fixture last season so another step in the right direction.

in all seriousness though that second half performance needs analysing and fixing. We were lucky Villa we’re pretty toothless but better sides would have put us to the sword.

Agree it was similar at Watford, absolutely battered them first half, failed to take chances, then became much more defensive 2nd half and became a game of holding on, fantastic to win and keep a clean sheet but we won't keep getting away with that. 

Crowd was decent last night night both in numbers and getting behind the team, getting a buzz back around the place. 

[Billy the Kidd]

7 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Did Che actually get the touch before the goal? On US TV it looked like it bounced off the defender, but they may not have shown the same angles.

No I believe it his the arse of Matt Cash. Serves him right for his handball last season. And for having a fat ass. 

[egg]

3 hours ago, austsaint said:

I thought Ralph's rationale was fine.   S. Armstrong was not at his best tonight.   We were under threat for the first 10-15 minutes of the second half, thus the timing and tactic of bringing on Lyanco was sound.   We still had the attacking threat from our full backs, and the later subs of Diallo for a fading Elyounoussi and a fresh Broja for A.A. strengthened our defence but maintained a counter-attack balance.

Agreed. 3 at the back was logical. Tino and KWP were under a lot of pressure and were struggling to get up the field. The subs gave them cover and helped them get forward and push them back. It worked. The other subs were good too, and well timed. 

[CB Fry]

Absolutely delighted that Ralph made a tactical switch very early in the second half (ten mins in) that changed things enough to stop the Villa onslaught and even things up. It made sense because as others said it released our full backs again. 

People have moaned (i say people, me) about Ralph’s tendency to make no changes until it is too late. Well, let's appreciate what he did last night.

And at least now we have lost the tag of "they've lost the most points from winning positions" that yer commentators absolutely love to blather about. Clean sheets and solid one-nil wins literally the opposite of that shit. Fantastic Ralph.

[Chez]

7 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Have to be happy with the win to cap off a decent run of results. Deserved points on the back of a dominant first half.

The second half, though, was the worst we've played all season. Worse than Everton away. We just lost all control of the game from minute 45 and our composure and decision making followed suit. So many heavy touches and misplaced passes.

It wasn't a great suprise - we ended the Watford game in a similar panic. 

Livramento, Bednarek, Sarmstrong were really poor - Salisu a mix of great interceptions and suicidal passing.

And yet McCarthy had nothing to do. A very strange game all round.

Good for Aarmstrong getting back in the goals again. After a rough period wondering who was going to score for us, we've suddenly got three strikers in a bit of goalscoring form. That's got to be positive.

And Lyanco getting some more minutes (and only dropping one bollock) can't be a bad thing.

Let's hope for a quiet international break and go bank another three points at Norwich.

 

 

good analysis. terrible second half, but we deserved the 3 points on the first half showing. Its as good as we have played all season. We really are a mid table type of team.

but a very strange game indeed.  

[JRM]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Absolutely delighted that Ralph made a tactical switch very early in the second half (ten mins in) that changed things enough to stop the Villa onslaught and even things up. It made sense because as others said it released our full backs again. 

People have moaned (i say people, me) about Ralph’s tendency to make no changes until it is too late. Well, let's appreciate what he did last night.

And at least now we have lost the tag of "they've lost the most points from winning positions" that yer commentators absolutely love to blather about. Clean sheets and solid one-nil wins literally the opposite of that shit. Fantastic Ralph.

Losing points from winning positions had become a big issue for us and was the main reason I posted a few weeks back that I couldn't see where enough goals would come from for us to win games, fair play since then we've had three 1-0 wins. Ralph proved me wrong.  

[Chez]

22 minutes ago, egg said:

Agreed. 3 at the back was logical. Tino and KWP were under a lot of pressure and were struggling to get up the field. The subs gave them cover and helped them get forward and push them back. It worked. 

We had three CBs to clear crosses, but time after time the fullbacks ended up two one one and they could do little to prevent the cross. However the crosses didnt hurt us as we had bodies is the middle. It worked, but I hated it. The players in midfield didn't seem to understand their roles and JWP got pulled all over he place trying to close gaps. i bet he ran miles.

[Maya's Dad]

Yeap nice to see Ralph change it when we were under it second half and also to see Lyanco given some more minutes after his performance against Chelsea. Thought him and diallo were solid. I had KWP Che and Bednarek as our best performers. JWP and Oriol put in a shift as usual and we look really quite good from some of our play in the first half, we should have killed the game off earlier much like last week. 

Only complaint I had, we had 10 corners and don't recall us doing anything from any of them. Redmond?

[Chez]

13 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Absolutely delighted that Ralph made a tactical switch very early in the second half (ten mins in) that changed things enough to stop the Villa onslaught and even things up. It made sense because as others said it released our full backs again. 

People have moaned (i say people, me) about Ralph’s tendency to make no changes until it is too late. Well, let's appreciate what he did last night.

And at least now we have lost the tag of "they've lost the most points from winning positions" that yer commentators absolutely love to blather about. Clean sheets and solid one-nil wins literally the opposite of that shit. Fantastic Ralph.

agree, great to see him react quicker. it worked, but I think the players need more work on that formation. They don't seem to understand it at all hence being overloaded out wide and then giving the ball away non stop. 

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, Maya's Dad said:

Yand also to see Lyanco given some more minutes after his performance against Chelsea. Thought him and diallo were solid.

really? After a very measured display against Chelsea I thought last night he dived in (getting mugged) and looked bad myself - just the player the Torino fans had described. Maybe I am focusing too much on the negative.

Edited 6 November, 2021 by Chez

[Teddeer]

8 hours ago, danjosaint said:

Absolutely shocking kicking tho, has done better this season but too timid and awful distribution

Their keeper made two worldie saves, McCarthy did not need to.

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Chez said:

We had three CBs to clear crosses, but time after time the fullbacks ended up two one one and they could do little to prevent the cross. However the crosses didnt hurt us as we had bodies is the middle. It worked, but I hated it. The players in midfield didn't seem to understand their roles and JWP got pulled all over he place trying to close gaps. i bet he ran miles.

Yep, out of possession it was horrible to watch and the midfield looked a bit disjointed. It was better when Diallo came in. In possession though the additional CB gave the wing backs cover and gave us our best outlet to stop us dropping even deeper. 

[Chez]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Yep, out of possession it was horrible to watch and the midfield looked a bit disjointed. It was better when Diallo came in. In possession though the additional CB gave the wing backs cover and gave us our best outlet to stop us dropping even deeper. 

I am wondering if Ralph is able to make these changes, which he has done in several games now, because he trusts the subs more. The squad was woeful last season. Its deeper this year and he seems happy to get Diallo on etc and has no fear of taking anyone off in any position. Fresh legs makes a big difference. he has them right now and is using them.

[Maya's Dad]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

really? After a very measured display against Chelsea I thought last night he dived in (getting mugged) and looked bad myself - just the player the Torino fans had described. Maybe I am focusing too much on the negative.

Measured display? really? I thought he was an absolute animal that game and covered superbly. Nothing superb against Villa but did not do much wrong either. His distribution is miles better than both Bednarek or Sali, those balls out to the wings.. I cant get enough of him tbh

[Teddeer]

I think Villa sussed out that they needed to push onto our two full backs and stop them marauding forward because first half they were given the freedom of the park and played like wingers especially KWP. Once Villa solved this by pushing them back we were much less of a threat. Something for Ralph and the coaches to work on maybe. Overall we were good value for the 3 points because their keeper made two superb saves.

Edited 6 November, 2021 by Teddeer

[Chez]

8 hours ago, danjosaint said:

Absolutely shocking kicking tho, has done better this season but too timid and awful distribution

wasn't it just one horrific clearance and everything else was OK? There were lots of short passes in first half keeping the ball well. He went long when he needed to. Good decision making in my book and his positional play was god, getting Salisu out of jail big style.

Handling was spot on in first half.

He's been very good in recent weeks. The save last week was as better than Martinez last night, and that was pretty damn good,.You know that because there is next to no noise about him on here. Long may that continue.

 

[austsaint]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

I am wondering if Ralph is able to make these changes, which he has done in several games now, because he trusts the subs more. The squad was woeful last season. Its deeper this year and he seems happy to get Diallo on etc and has no fear of taking anyone off in any position. Fresh legs makes a big difference. he has them right now and is using them.

I'm sure that's right - the squad depth and lack of injuries must be a novelty for Ralph.   Just the same, he has made a few clangers earlier in the season, but for the last three games or so he has got things right and proven moaners and critics (like me) wrong.

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, Maya's Dad said:

Measured display? really? I thought he was an absolute animal that game and covered superbly. Nothing superb against Villa but did not do much wrong either. His distribution is miles better than both Bednarek or Sali, those balls out to the wings.. I cant get enough of him tbh

by measured, I meant he didn't sell himself like he did last night. He was excellent at Chelsea, no doubt about it. He wasn't last night, he was made to look a mug early on after coming on. I think you may have missed that or I am dreaming, which is very possible. A lack of sleep can do that to a man. 

[egg]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

I am wondering if Ralph is able to make these changes, which he has done in several games now, because he trusts the subs more. The squad was woeful last season. Its deeper this year and he seems happy to get Diallo on etc and has no fear of taking anyone off in any position. Fresh legs makes a big difference. he has them right now and is using them.

I was thinking this. There's been more flexibility in the b team too. I'd assumed it was some kind of tactical policy change across the teams but it could just be that the squads are better so there's more flexibility in tactics, line ups and subs. Really positive to see all 3 teams winning again though. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

These 1-0 wins scorelines are putting years on me. Great to be beating teams around us and moving up the table but I would like to see our hard work and improvement on the pitch produce a few more goals for comfort. Should get a win next game against Norwich, surely. 

[jimmer42]

7 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Only watched the game live at the stadium, so am still scratching my head on Lyanco on for Sarmstrong. Any insights in what happened there? I assumed 3 at the back to release Timo and KWP down the flanks? If so, it didn’t work.

Villa were much bigger than us and starting to out muscle us as they changed to a Wimbledonesque long ball 'get it in the mixer' approach and were looking dangerous with the Arial approach. I think the Lyanco substitution and switch in formation was the pivotal moment in us getting the three points......plus SArmstrong was knackered

All in, Ralph's game management was spot on last night, both in personnel changed and timing.

[wild-saint]

59 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Absolutely delighted that Ralph made a tactical switch very early in the second half (ten mins in) that changed things enough to stop the Villa onslaught and even things up. It made sense because as others said it released our full backs again. 

People have moaned (i say people, me) about Ralph’s tendency to make no changes until it is too late. Well, let's appreciate what he did last night.

And at least now we have lost the tag of "they've lost the most points from winning positions" that yer commentators absolutely love to blather about. Clean sheets and solid one-nil wins literally the opposite of that shit. Fantastic Ralph.

Agree with this, RH tactical changes have been far more sharp this season. However he has a much stronger bench this year wihich gives him better options. Where we too harsh last season when his option was to bring in djneppo or Walcott?

[hypochondriac]

Just popped back in to say isn't it glorious to get a win on a Friday? All weekend to be able to enjoy any of the rest of the footie knowing we already have our three points. Absolutely superb. 

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Just popped back in to say isn't it glorious to get a win on a Friday? All weekend to be able to enjoy any of the rest of the footie knowing we already have our three points. Absolutely superb. 

It'll be even sweeter if Everton and Leicester both lose tomorrow, as we could end up climbing into the top half on GD.

Too much to ask for though?

[whelk]

May have been discussed earlier in the thread but what the fuck can a manager scribble down that all the Villa players were reading?