Saints 2-2 Burnley - Match Thread

[Minsk]

8 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I have no idea, but trying a very pacey, attack minded, skillful RB as RM doesn't feel too much of a stretch to me. Ralph does have a history of playing players out of position, but more square pegs in round holes rather than in this instance taking the calculated risk of putting Tino further forward, which could easily be re shuffled if it wasn't working. I am not hung up on Tino playing mid, it would be good to see him and KWP on together, I am more concerned regarding his sentimental attachment to Walcott and at times Redmond. 

As I said, I agree with the Theo thing. As for Redders, he glaring miss aside, I think he has put in some decent performances of late. Ralph absolutely should have played either Che or Arma up alongside Broja; with any of Redders, Moi or Tella starting behind. (Really didn't look like Stuey was ready to start still on Saturday).

I would also be interested to see how Tino would play at RM, ahead of KWP. I can, however, completely understand why Ralph hasn't done that yet. Maybe an experiment for a friendly or cup match against lower league opposition. But we all know if Ralph had tried that against West Ham and we had subsequently lost, or if he had tried it against Wolves and the result had still been 1-0 (due to the CB fiasco) Ralph would now be getting both barrels from the haters for having tried it, as opposed to not having tried it. I have yet to see anyone say they would an accept a league defeat in return for him trying it; yet loads slate him for not doing so. Go figure.....

[Toussaint]

1 minute ago, Minsk said:

As I said, I agree with the Theo thing. As for Redders, he glaring miss aside, I think he has put in some decent performances of late. Ralph absolutely should have played either Che or Arma up alongside Broja; with any of Redders, Moi or Tella starting behind. (Really didn't look like Stuey was ready to start still on Saturday).

I would also be interested to see how Tino would play at RM, ahead of KWP. I can, however, completely understand why Ralph hasn't done that yet. Maybe an experiment for a friendly or cup match against lower league opposition. But we all know if Ralph had tried that against West Ham and we had subsequently lost, or if he had tried it against Wolves and the result had still been 1-0 (due to the CB fiasco) Ralph would now be getting both barrels from the haters for having tried it, as opposed to not having tried it. I have yet to see anyone say they would an accept a league defeat in return for him trying it; yet loads slate him for not doing so. Go figure.....

If the specific question is Tino at rm and kwp at rb, then I would unreservedly support it, even if it didn’t work. That support being conditional on Ralph changing  it  promptly if it became apparent it wasn’t working. 

[Minsk]

12 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

If the specific question is Tino at rm and kwp at rb, then I would unreservedly support it, even if it didn’t work. That support being conditional on Ralph changing  it  promptly if it became apparent it wasn’t working. 

The actual question was 'would you accept a loss if he tried it and that was the result?'

[Toussaint]

5 minutes ago, Minsk said:

The actual question was 'would you accept a loss if he tried it and that was the result?'

In that case the "actual" answer is yes, but I'd still caveat that with an expectation that he would change it, at a sensible stage of the game, if it was failing. 

[Give it to Ron]

5 minutes ago, Minsk said:

The actual question was 'would you accept a loss if he tried it and that was the result?'

Well it depends if it works doesn’t it just because that may work won’t make up for another Bednarek weak defensive or McCarthy error. It may take a couple of games, but who has deserved to start there?

[Minsk]

Just now, Toussaint said:

In that case the "actual" answer is yes, but I'd still caveat that with an expectation that he would change it, at a sensible stage of the game, if it was failing. 

Okay. Thanks for answering.

[Minsk]

1 minute ago, Give it to Ron said:

Well it depends if it works doesn’t it just because that may work won’t make up for another Bednarek weak defensive or McCarthy error. It may take a couple of games, but who has deserved to start there?

And there's the rub:

If Ralph tries it and it doesn't work, he will get slated.

If Ralph tries it and it does work, he will get slated for not trying it sooner.

If Ralph doesn't try it he gets slated.

Just my opinion, of course.

Who does deserve to start at RM? Hopefully Stu Armstrong after getting more minutes against Chelsea tomorrow. Failing that, Tella, Redmond and Moi. Yes, I would rather see Tino there than Theo, given his recent couple of performances, but not over and above any other option possible. (And, as I said, it would be great to see it given a go in a friendly/cup match.)

[Teddeer]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

This is the latest in a long line of pony spouted by the Ralph apologist, that somehow he knew the exact moment to play    Broja and that’s why he now looks the part. The truth is a bit simpler than that, the player Ralph did pick, the one he thought was  our best striker wasn’t  doing it. Coupled with Che’s injury,he picked the next striker off the rank, Broja. Lots of managers stubble upon their best side, but I’ve never seen it portrayed as a great management before. But then we haven’t seen the Cult of Ralph before. When he eventually plays Tino and KWP down the right, the cult will proclaim that as proof of his visionary approach and getting the timing spot on again. Hail to King Ralph…. 

Spot on.

[Teddeer]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I seem to remember reading that he wasn't fit enough when he first joined and some of the senior players pointed this out to him. 

What, you mean those very fit senior players, most of whom miss nearly every chance they are presented with? I think even a half fit Broja scores more than them.

[LiberalCommunist]

I'm worried that Ralph seems to see everything last. 

Come on, help us apologists out sometimes Ralph, pretend to be competent. 

[Sheaf Saint]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

This is the latest in a long line of pony spouted by the Ralph apologist, that somehow he knew the exact moment to play    Broja and that’s why he now looks the part. The truth is a bit simpler than that, the player Ralph did pick, the one he thought was  our best striker wasn’t  doing it. Coupled with Che’s injury,he picked the next striker off the rank, Broja. Lots of managers stubble upon their best side, but I’ve never seen it portrayed as a great management before. But then we haven’t seen the Cult of Ralph before. When he eventually plays Tino and KWP down the right, the cult will proclaim that as proof of his visionary approach and getting the timing spot on again. Hail to King Ralph…. 

So let me make sure I understand you correctly - not subscribing to your Ralph Out campaign means being an apologist and part of a cult, yeah?

[Teddeer]

59 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Yep. Broja even admitted in his post match interview after the Leeds game that he hadn't been pulling his weight in training, and was reprimanded by some senior players for it. But hey, Tedder has watched every match he has ever played in and knows everything managing young footballers. Be interesting to know which professional teams he has coached/managed. Must be loads.

Don't get so hung up about everything. This is an open forum where fans are free to publish views which probably won't always conform to yours. Just because Ralph is our manager and he is paid millions doesn't mean he never makes mistakes and big ones at that - anyone who has presided over two nine nil defeats is not some kind of genius. I still believe that, if Che hadn't got injured he would not have picked Broja and we wouldn't have seen him yet - again, just my take on it. I watched plenty of videos of Broja before he joined us and judged that he has all the tools to be a top quality striker and offers a lot that neither AA or Che do ie pace combined with power, he can head the ball and also make powerful runs into the box and finish into the corners. Maybe I was impatient to see him in the team but he has shown exactly what I expected of him.

Along with many others I think Tino has shown enough signs with his passing ability, strong tackling, forages down the wing, trickery and ability to get shots away to demonstrate he could play on the right in front of KWP (not sure what other attributes a right sided midfielder needs but we have a number who've played there and have few of them). It may not work but then Ralph tries other things that don't work eg starting Theo. It just seems a pity that one of our best players, KWP, in a fairly limited squad can't be fitted into the team and this may lead to us losing him. Again, I get that you don't agree with that and that is your prerogative.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

So let me make sure I understand you correctly - not subscribing to your Ralph Out campaign means being an apologist and part of a cult, yeah?

It’s hardly a “campaign”. But no, not everybody who wants Ralph to remain in place are part of the cult. The ones who make excuses for him, put spin on his poor team selections, think it’s great that he cried, cherry pick results & performances, judge him differently than predecessors and make out he’s some sort of guru, are…..

[OldNick]

On 24/10/2021 at 12:46, S-Clarke said:

It's because he's brain dead, you can't coach the mental aspects - that's just part of them as a player.

He may have all the tools technically, and he does have the pace, the touch, the skill...but his mind is the problem, hence why his decision making at crucial moments during a high pressured situation is an absolute disaster. He'll always be one of those 'almost there' kind of players, but he'll never make it to the top or become mega consistent because of his lack of footballing brain.

and he wouldnt be with us if he did. Then of course you would give him pelters for not being loyal and staying lol 

[John Boy Saint]

1 hour ago, LiberalCommunist said:

I'm worried that Ralph seems to see everything last. 

Come on, help us apologists out sometimes Ralph, pretend to be competent. 

Crikey thats why Redmond is seemingly getting so much slack, they are one and the same......peas in a pod. As I've said many times about Redmond, if you actually sit in the stadium and watch the game with your own eyes he is without any shadow of a doubt reactive not proactive player. 

The question earlier as to whether Ralph should try the KWP - Tino combo and if it went wrong would I complain - not at all. Because even on paper how could it - both like to get up the field, both are direct, both know how to defend = goal congruence.

 

[Manuel]

1 hour ago, John Boy Saint said:

The question earlier as to whether Ralph should try the KWP - Tino combo and if it went wrong would I complain - not at all. Because even on paper how could it - both like to get up the field, both are direct, both know how to defend = goal congruence.

Starting to agree with this.  Especially seeing Tino increasingly hungry to get on goal.  My only thought is that it's been tried in training and somehow doesn't work.  

[Mosin]

I honestly thought we didnt play wide mids and that the 2 mids that play with OR and  jwp / Diallo are more central behind the striker roles ( Inside forwards )? apart from redders - Che - Armstrong and Broja who has been playing up front, and the full backs no one else seems to go wide..........

 

Edited 25 October, 2021 by Mosin
spelling.

[Sheaf Saint]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s hardly a “campaign”. But no, not everybody who wants Ralph to remain in place are part of the cult. The ones who make excuses for him, put spin on his poor team selections, think it’s great that he cried, cherry pick results & performances, judge him differently than predecessors and make out he’s some sort of guru, are…..

Not a campaign? How else would you describe your relentless berating of anyone who dares to have a viewpoint that differs from your rabid opposition to Ralph's tenure?

Your hatred of the man has obviously made you so blinkered that you think people who, from what I can see, are objective enough to recognise the improvement in our performances and the mitigating circumstances for our current league position are some sort of deranged fanboys. Literally everyone posting on here who doesn't want him sacked has acknowledged his flaws and accepts there are things he could do better. 

You don't like him and want him gone - fine. We get the message. You don't need to bleat on about it day after day and use every draw or defeat as a stick to beat him with. Even when we beat Leeds you still got on his back and wouldn't give him any credit. It's getting incredibly boring now.

 

Edited 25 October, 2021 by Sheaf Saint

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Teddeer said:

What, you mean those very fit senior players, most of whom miss nearly every chance they are presented with? I think even a half fit Broja scores more than them.

It doesn’t work like that, and I suspect that you know it. Being fit is a starter for ten, or in Latin a ‘sine qua non’

[Lord Duckhunter]

41 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

 

Your hatred of the man has obviously made you so blinkered that you think people who, from what I can see, are objective enough to recognise the improvement in our performances and the mitigating circumstances for our current league position are some sort of deranged fan boy. 

 

Firstly, I don’t hate the bloke. 
 

Secondly, you’ve proved my point again. What are these “mitigating” circumstances” that have given us 1 win this season. It’s always “mitigating circumstances “, never that he’s a poor manager who has been sussed out. 

[Sheaf Saint]

35 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Firstly, I don’t hate the bloke. 
 

Secondly, you’ve proved my point again. What are these “mitigating” circumstances” that have given us 1 win this season. It’s always “mitigating circumstances “, never that he’s a poor manager who has been sussed out. 

If we were playing badly every week and getting humiliated time after time, maybe you would have a point. But we're not. Ralph may make one or two questionable selections, but overall the performances have been a massive improvement on the appalling dross we saw in the second half of last season. 

You go on about how we only beat Leeds because they had 3 key players missing, while ignoring the fact we've been without our best attacking player (Stu) since the start of the season and without our captain for the last two. 

We're playing OK. We're creating chances but not putting them away. That isn't Ralph's fault and it doesn't make him a poor manager who's been sussed out. If we weren't creating anything and getting carved open at the back then I'd be worried, but that just isn't the reality. The way you go on about it, anyone would think we were getting out-fought and out-thought every week. 

Ralph isn't perfect by any stretch, but I don't know how much more you can expect from him with this squad. If he was good enough to get this bunch consistently over-performing then he'd have been poached from us by now.

I'll follow all this up by saying if we're still where we are after we've played everyone once then I'll be concerned. But I'm confident we won't be.

 

Edited 25 October, 2021 by Sheaf Saint

[danjosaint]

I'd also like to know these mitigating circumstances, as from where I see it, he's had enough time in the job he's now got the team he wants but still doesn't know his best formation or starting 11 (yes I appreciate the different formations require poss different players) He has to much credit with the club and I really don't know why bar being a nice guy, but that's what the public see, I don't think it's hard to see that behind the scenes he could be a stubborn ar*****e with a big old ego. Yes we've somewhat tightened up but that wasn't hard but are now clueless going forward, that falls on him and the players he picks, the bringing on Long whilst looking for a goal against Wolves and starting Theo against Burnley then leaving him on for 75min shows how he really hasn't a clue about game management,  he did this with Leipzig, started off well then fell out when it went downhill, now I like Ralph but its now time to refresh for both parties, although I definitely don't want Howe

[Sheaf Saint]

16 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

I'd also like to know these mitigating circumstances

How about the hardest set of opening fixtures on paper in the entire league? Wolves aside, which games *should* we have done better in? Burnley? They're a well organised team who know well how to grind out draws, and better teams than us will fail to beat them this season.

16 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

bringing on Long whilst looking for a goal against Wolves and starting Theo against Burnley then leaving him on for 75min shows how he really hasn't a clue about game management

I'll agree these two things demonstrated poor judgement, and we all make mistakes in life, but come on - showing he "doesn't have a clue" is a ridiculous exaggeration. What about the tactical change he made at HT against Chelsea to get us back in the game? If you're going to criticise his failures then at least acknowledge his successes.

Like Ducky you seem to be intent on painting an unfairly negative picture of him which I just cannot agree with. Yes, things *could* be better right now, but the way we're set up and playing as a team, which is the remit of the manager, is not our main issue. 

[Chris cooper]

38 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

If we were playing badly every week and getting humiliated time after time, maybe you would have a point. But we're not. Ralph may make one or two questionable selections, but overall the performances have been a massive improvement on the appalling dross we saw in the second half of last season. 

You go on about how we only beat Leeds because they had 3 key players missing, while ignoring the fact we've been without our best attacking player (Stu) since the start of the season and without our captain for the last two. 

We're playing OK. We're creating chances but not putting them away. That isn't Ralph's fault and it doesn't make him a poor manager who's been sussed out. If we weren't creating anything and getting carved open at the back then I'd be worried, but that just isn't the reality. The way you go on about it, anyone would think we were getting out-fought and out-thought every week. 

Ralph isn't perfect by any stretch, but I don't know how much more you can expect from him with this squad. If he was good enough to get this bunch consistently over-performing then he'd have been poached from us by now.

I'll follow all this up by saying if we're still where we are after we've played everyone once then I'll be concerned. But I'm confident we won't be.

 

You only have to go as far as his team selections to see he himself is so blinkered and has lost the plot ..not putting Kwp in the right back role with tino ahead of him.. Also giving Shane long and Theo Walcott contracts is the most inept move he has made ..playing those players ahead of Nathan tella is a traversty !! His late subs and hands in his pockets looking lost in his thoughts ..dropping to his knees on the touch line was so embarrassing.. his now waistcoat and wearing no socks is up there .. along with going moist wen pep or klopp are in the vicinity is cringe to the point where no one can can look .

[Minsk]

5 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Don't get so hung up about everything. This is an open forum where fans are free to publish views which probably won't always conform to yours. Just because Ralph is our manager and he is paid millions doesn't mean he never makes mistakes and big ones at that - anyone who has presided over two nine nil defeats is not some kind of genius. I still believe that, if Che hadn't got injured he would not have picked Broja and we wouldn't have seen him yet - again, just my take on it. I watched plenty of videos of Broja before he joined us and judged that he has all the tools to be a top quality striker and offers a lot that neither AA or Che do ie pace combined with power, he can head the ball and also make powerful runs into the box and finish into the corners. Maybe I was impatient to see him in the team but he has shown exactly what I expected of him.

Along with many others I think Tino has shown enough signs with his passing ability, strong tackling, forages down the wing, trickery and ability to get shots away to demonstrate he could play on the right in front of KWP (not sure what other attributes a right sided midfielder needs but we have a number who've played there and have few of them). It may not work but then Ralph tries other things that don't work eg starting Theo. It just seems a pity that one of our best players, KWP, in a fairly limited squad can't be fitted into the team and this may lead to us losing him. Again, I get that you don't agree with that and that is your prerogative.

I'm not hung up on anything. I get that people have different opinions, hence why we are discussing them. Mine are really not so different from yours, if you actually bothered reading everything I had written. I just don't claim to know more about our players than the coaching staff who train them day in day out, or claim they are completely inept because they haven't picked a player/formation/tactic that I really, really, really, want them to. I have also never said that Ralph doesn't make mistakes. We all do. I am very open and critical of the things he does which just do not seem to make sense. I can think of 3 off the top of my head: sticking with KWP at LB against Wolves, when he was clearly having a mare; bringing Long on in the same match; starting at persevering with Theo against Burnley.

As I've said many times, I agree with you that Broja looks to have all the attributes to be a top striker. Yes, it did look that way from some video clips when he joined, but how many times have we been duped by such clips? De Ridder? You disagree that Ralph has been man-managing him, yet Broja himself even admitted to not pulling his weight at the beginning. You think Ralph was deliberately ignoring him. I think he was easing him in. Who knows whether or not he would have started against Leeds had Adams been fit? It seemed to me though that Ralph dropped Arma for Broja. Otherwise, why not just play him instead? Ralph also then opted to keep in the starting 11 for Burnley. You should have been overjoyed but your response was to come and give it the 'big I am', slating Ralph for not starting him (in the league) sooner. 

As for Tino, again, I have said many times that he will probably make a good RM and that I would like to see him given a go there. I just don't think we should be doing such experiments in the league in our current situation. 

It's a long old season and is far more of a squad game nowadays than it ever was. I am sure KWP will get plenty of game time by the end of it.

[CB Fry]

6 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Don't get so hung up about everything. This is an open forum where fans are free to publish views which probably won't always conform to yours. Just because Ralph is our manager and he is paid millions doesn't mean he never makes mistakes and big ones at that - anyone who has presided over two nine nil defeats is not some kind of genius. I still believe that, if Che hadn't got injured he would not have picked Broja and we wouldn't have seen him yet - again, just my take on it. I watched plenty of videos of Broja before he joined us and judged that he has all the tools to be a top quality striker and offers a lot that neither AA or Che do ie pace combined with power, he can head the ball and also make powerful runs into the box and finish into the corners. Maybe I was impatient to see him in the team but he has shown exactly what I expected of him.

Along with many others I think Tino has shown enough signs with his passing ability, strong tackling, forages down the wing, trickery and ability to get shots away to demonstrate he could play on the right in front of KWP (not sure what other attributes a right sided midfielder needs but we have a number who've played there and have few of them). It may not work but then Ralph tries other things that don't work eg starting Theo. It just seems a pity that one of our best players, KWP, in a fairly limited squad can't be fitted into the team and this may lead to us losing him. Again, I get that you don't agree with that and that is your prerogative.

He picked Broja against Sheffield United. He was fucking shit.

[austsaint]

43 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

He picked Broja against Sheffield United. He was fucking shit.

Prior to that he was given 15 minutes against West Ham and was magnificent.  What's your point?

[LiberalCommunist]

Great opportunity for Adam Armstrong tonight. I bet he's chomping at the bit after being benched for the last couple. 

2-1 Saints. We got this

[John Boy Saint]

12 hours ago, Manuel said:

Starting to agree with this.  Especially seeing Tino increasingly hungry to get on goal.  My only thought is that it's been tried in training and somehow doesn't work.  

That just made me think of the Jimmy Tarbuck gag in the programme before we beat Liverpool donkeys years ago 3-2 (great game) - Lawrie Mac chatting to Bob Paisley whilst walking down the Solent, asking how he can get Saints to play more like Liverpool, Bob says dustbins, we put dustbins out on the training pitch and the lads practise round them: works a treat. Couple of weeks later Bob asks, how did you get on with the dustbins Lawrie? - Not so well Bob, dustbins won 3-1! 

[The Left Back]

I'm coming to this very late but as it's a thread that just keeps going I thought I'd add my two penneth.  I've kept half an eye on the thread as it's developed (from about page 11) and so some of this is a reaction to all that.  

Team announced - surprised Walcott started but the rest of the team was fairly predictable.  I'd have liked to see either Djenepo, Tella or Tino (with KWP in at RB) there.  It's obviously S Armstrong's place in the team but he's still clearly working his way back.

Atmosphere walking to the ground noticeably more up beat.  A lovely buzz about the place pre-match.  Brass band excellent and didn't even notice Burnley were on the pitch.  Warm and generous applause for taking the knee - couldn't hear any boos.

Then the game started but we didn't.  For 30 minutes Burnley were best in every way, including pressing and passing - not something I've seen from them before.  They were up for it and we were outplayed, out thought and out fought.  I thought we would do well to get to half time only 1 down.  And then it was like a switch flicked.  It was after a break in play when pretty much the whole team went over to the bench.  Something was obviously said but I didn't notice a change in formation.  It was like we suddenly switched on.  We became unplayable and should have scored 4 goals before half time.  Walcott's miss wound me up.  Redmond's was inexplicable - we were all up and celebrating the goal that never was.  I really felt sorry for him on a human level - his smile was nothing more than disbelief.  When we did score he was right in front of us and let out the most almighty cheer/shout - the relief was tangible.

Second half we started well and the goal was a feature of pressing and panic, followed by a great finish from Broja (very similar to one he got for Albania?). He does look the real deal if still a bit raw.  I felt that if we could hold the lead for 15 minutes we would be home and dry because Burnley had lost their spark.  Their equaliser sort of came out of nothing.  Having seen a replay it was pretty weak from Bednarek.  Then the game sort of became an ordinary game between two evenly matched average teams.  They made an attacking sub in Jay rod that didn't work for them (and he could have been sent off immediately).  We took too long to make our changes.  I would have had Walcott off when they equalised and made at least one more change before 70 mins.

Came away from the game thinking that it was much more entertaining than Burnley normally is.  The buzz out of the ground was still pretty upbeat (very different to reading this thread). I feel like it was 2 points dropped but for me we're still settling into the season and so there was plenty of encouragement in the performance.  I thought Tino, Salisu, Redmond, Oriol and Broja all played well.  Moi and Diallo both grew into the game.  McCarthy didn't have much to do - but his distribution its still iffy.  

9 games down - we've had better starts and we've had worse starts (it feels like we've had more worse starts than better starts).  I don't understand the entrenched argument about winning stats - it's pretty obvious everyone will use the numbers to enhance an opinion they already have.  You could say we have 4 points from 2 games, 8 points from 9 games, x points this year, y points last year.  It's all taking factual data and presenting in such a way as to justify a view.   If you believe we are doomed and/or need to sack Ralph you are obviously going to use different arguments from someone who believes we are not doomed and/or need to hang on to Ralph.  In the end it becomes a gut view - my gut view at this point in time is that we will be ok.  

 

[Baird of the land]

 

I see Theo made Football365's team of the week.

[david in sweden]

On 25/10/2021 at 14:43, Teddeer said:

All this guff about Ralph man managing Broja! I get that he was never going to play him in the first match of the season but he is clearly the best striker at the club so, in my opinion, Ralph 'man managing' him for a few games would have had little affect and is not the reason that Broja has scored two in two starts. A good manager knows his best players and starts them. 

Without taking anything away from Broja's excellent performances in the Prem. so far, it's a brand new experience for him

and although he puts in his 100%, he's clearly not upto 95 minutes of intensive Prem. football - at the moment.

Much of his previous (Chelsea) success had come in " the boys league" (PL2)  and perhaps Ralph probably sees a way to

bring him upto a better level of fitness and (hopefully) use him more in the forthcoming games.

Yes - of course he scored goals for Albania as well,  but some of those came from his late substitute apps.

[Whitey Grandad]

25 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Without taking anything away from Broja's excellent performances in the Prem. so far, it's a brand new experience for him

and although he puts in his 100%, he's clearly not upto 95 minutes of intensive Prem. football - at the moment.

Much of his previous (Chelsea) success had come in " the boys league" (PL2)  and perhaps Ralph probably sees a way to

bring him upto a better level of fitness and (hopefully) use him more in the forthcoming games.

Yes - of course he scored goals for Albania as well,  but some of those came from his late substitute apps.

A few for Vitesse Arnhem too last season. 30 appearances, 10 goals, finished as their joint top scorer in the Eredivisie.

[david in sweden]

12 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

A few for Vitesse Arnhem too last season. 30 appearances, 10 goals, finished as their joint top scorer in the Eredivisie.

Quite correct Whitey, but I wouldn't compare Eredivisie standard too closely with the Premier League. 

There a some outstanding players in the Dutch league, but not all of them can cut it in the Prem.

but Broja is a fast developing talent and it'll be a pity if we won't be able to buy him at the end of the loan.