"MP Sir David Amess stabbed multiple times in incident at constituency surgery"

[trousers]

Shocking news....  

https://news.sky.com/story/conservative-mp-david-amess-stabbed-multiple-times-in-incident-at-constituency-surgery-12434498

Edited 15 October, 2021 by trousers

[AlexLaw76]

Has died, apparently

[sydney_saint]

Really devastating news. No one should die just doing their job. Rhetoric needs to die down. Wtf is wrong with some people

[whelk]

Horrendous news. What is the matter with people? Father of 5. 

[Plastic]

Appalling. Imagine we'll say goodbye to open constituency surgeries after this, and I can't blame MPs if it happens. 

[Verbal]

I got to know David Amess pretty well after he won his Southend seat in 1983 - probably met him three or four times a year until the late eighties.  Never liked his politics - he was a committed Eurosceptic even then - but he was an immensely amiable man who was happy to hear strongly held views different to his, and to discuss them at length.  He was also almost totally lacking in conventional political ambition - for him, winning his seat was like winning the lottery, and he revelled in the mundane and time-consuming work of being a constituency MP.

He wasn't unique - there are a number of MPs in the Commons quite like him in temperament and calling, which makes recently heard the 'scum' label all the worse.  But a talent for being genuinely nice - and I mean Ted Lasso-level nice - was something he clearly never lost. 

What a depressing day.

[sadoldgit]

Maybe it is time to give MP’s armed police guards when they are in their surgeries in future. Dreadful news. Too many nut jobs on the streets.

[Saint_clark]

The end result of demonising those who hold a differing opinion - people actually think they're doing a good thing by attacking them. 

RIP.

[Manuel]

Perhaps the Labour MPs who wear "Tory Scum" badges should shoulder some responsibility. 

[whelk]

  On 15/10/2021 at 17:29, Manuel said:

Perhaps the Labour MPs who wear "Tory Scum" badges should shoulder some responsibility. 

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Total bullshit. This is the problem as this is sort of reaction to any tragedy these days, let’s pile on someone else as if it is Raynor’s fault.

[whelk]

Also now being led by anti terrorist police

[Manuel]

  On 15/10/2021 at 17:37, whelk said:

Total bullshit. This is the problem as this is sort of reaction to any tragedy these days, let’s pile on someone else as if it is Raynor’s fault.

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Obviously it's not her fault, but if you dehumanise a group of people it's more likely that group will receive violence against them.  This is why we report hate crime these days and aren't allowed to call people who belong to groups derogatory names.  She should reconsider the language she uses.  

[whelk]

  On 15/10/2021 at 17:42, Manuel said:

Obviously it's not her fault, but if you dehumanise a group of people it's more likely that group will receive violence against them.  This is why we report hate crime these days and aren't allowed to call people who belong to groups derogatory names.  She should reconsider the language she uses.  

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Obviously aggressive rhetoric doesn’t help tolerance of any opposing views. No simple solution as such hostility generally- just look at the anti vaxxers posts about Jeremy Vine. Looked like half of them genuinely wanted to see him in a noose for trusting science.

[Manuel]

Apparently the suspect is a foreign national.  Perhaps not a simple Tory-hate crime then.  Probably best not to speculate too much but you know, human nature and all that. 

[badgerx16]

  On 15/10/2021 at 18:02, Manuel said:

Probably best not to speculate too much but you know, human nature and all that. 

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"Round up the usual suspects".

[Turkish]

  On 15/10/2021 at 18:02, Manuel said:

Apparently the suspect is a foreign national.  Perhaps not a simple Tory-hate crime then.  Probably best not to speculate too much but you know, human nature and all that. 

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Probably just another individual with mental problems. 

[saint1977]

  On 15/10/2021 at 17:40, whelk said:

Also now being led by anti terrorist police

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Standard practice until they 100 per cent rule out that the motivation isn’t terrorism if that makes sense.

I didn’t meet him but heard from people who did that even if his politics weren’t yours that he was one of the most generous and kind MPs. The devastation and emotion expressed on all sides from neighbouring Essex MPs to people on the Labour left is testament. Worryingly, that’s 4 attacks and three fatalities since 2000 affecting all three main parties, 3 of them since 2010. Even worse, ITN reported earlier that there has been several people jailed for plotting attacks on MPs in recent years but the MPs and media were asked not to speak publicly so as not to encourage more repeats of today and Jo Cox.

Rhetoric has to calm down in general and once we know more about who the arrested suspect is, we will see if social media played a role in radicalising. The only thing I can think of is being a former member of Friends of Israel membership that may have inspired a loon, if that was the case plenty of MPs in both main parties will be worried. No excuses at all, whatever the killer was thinking.

As Verbal said, a very depressing day for this country even by recent standards. Thoughts with Sir David’s family and friends. 

[Warriorsaint]

  On 15/10/2021 at 17:29, Manuel said:

Perhaps the Labour MPs who wear "Tory Scum" badges should shoulder some responsibility. 

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Heard of Jo Cox? This is where stoking culture wars ends up.

[hypochondriac]

Given that the last MP killed was used to further certain political aims in an absolutely shocking way, I hope that people avoid that temptation with this whoever the identity of the killer is. 

[Turkish]

  On 15/10/2021 at 20:46, hypochondriac said:

Given that the last MP killed was used to further certain political aims in an absolutely shocking way, I hope that people avoid that temptation with this whoever the identity of the killer is. 

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Quite sad that people would use a tragedy to push their political agenda, sadly some will..

[Winnersaint]

I don’t identify with his political views but this is just plain wrong. Product of the vile political discourse in this country.

[hypochondriac]

I see that bellend Femi has already started on twitter. The Internet has largely ruined society. 

[harvey]

  On 15/10/2021 at 17:37, whelk said:

Total bullshit. This is the problem as this is sort of reaction to any tragedy these days, let’s pile on someone else as if it is Raynor’s fault.

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Tbf she hardly helps!

[trousers]

 

[AlexLaw76]

  On 15/10/2021 at 16:36, sadoldgit said:

Maybe it is time to give MP’s armed police guards when they are in their surgeries in future. Dreadful news. Too many nut jobs on the streets.

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maybe, people should be protected from Somalian/Islamic terrorists instead?

Edited 16 October, 2021 by AlexLaw76

[Warriorsaint]

  On 15/10/2021 at 22:43, harvey said:

Tbf she hardly helps!

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Well done on the gaslighting 👏

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 16/10/2021 at 06:47, Warriorsaint said:

Well done on the gaslighting 👏

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Gaslighting?

Isn't that something that happens within relationships?

[hypochondriac]

  On 15/10/2021 at 17:48, whelk said:

Obviously aggressive rhetoric doesn’t help tolerance of any opposing views. No simple solution as such hostility generally- just look at the anti vaxxers posts about Jeremy Vine. Looked like half of them genuinely wanted to see him in a noose for trusting science.

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It's a separate point and not really anything to do with this case, but I don't see why anyone has to refer to someone else as scum for simply being involved with a different mainstream political party from their own. I think supporters of Corbyn are ridiculous and he was potentially dangerous had he got into power but I don't doubt that they are largely kind people doing what they think is best. For some reason, some people on the left think it's acceptable to call their political opponents things like scum among other insults yet think they are justified in doing so. No side should be describing their opponents in such terms, it does add to an atmosphere where people from both sides feel justified in hurling abuse or worse at a politician because they disagree with their views. Diane Abbott is an awful politician with some extreme views that I would never agree with bit she deserves to go about her business free from extreme abuse just like everyone else. 

[sadoldgit]

  On 16/10/2021 at 06:13, AlexLaw76 said:

maybe, people should be protected from Somalian/Islamic terrorists instead?

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Maybe women should be protected from men? Maybe we should all just stay home? What a stupid comment, even by your low standards Delldays. How would your plan have saved the life of Jo Cox?

Edited 16 October, 2021 by sadoldgit
Add

[AlexLaw76]

  On 16/10/2021 at 07:33, sadoldgit said:

Maybe women should be protected from men? Maybe we should all just stay home? What a stupid comment, even by your low standards Delldays. How would your plan have saved the life of Jo Cox?

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stick to the topic.

[hypochondriac]

  On 16/10/2021 at 07:33, sadoldgit said:

Maybe women should be protected from men? Maybe we should all just stay home? What a stupid comment, even by your low standards Delldays. How would your plan have saved the life of Jo Cox?

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I expect he is referring to the statistics such as this: 

 

[Fan The Flames]

  On 16/10/2021 at 07:27, hypochondriac said:

It's a separate point and not really anything to do with this case, but I don't see why anyone has to refer to someone else as scum for simply being involved with a different mainstream political party from their own. I think supporters of Corbyn are ridiculous and he was potentially dangerous had he got into power but I don't doubt that they are largely kind people doing what they think is best. For some reason, some people on the left think it's acceptable to call their political opponents things like scum among other insults yet think they are justified in doing so. No side should be describing their opponents in such terms, it does add to an atmosphere where people from both sides feel justified in hurling abuse or worse at a politician because they disagree with their views. Diane Abbott is an awful politician with some extreme views that I would never agree with bit she deserves to go about her business free from extreme abuse just like everyone else. 

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I totally agree that someone in the shadow cabinet shouldn't be using the word scum about political opponents. It's preaches to the choir and turns off the others, totally counter productive. Call out policies not names.

Not a Corbyn fan but isn't it a bit of a leap in to the conspiracy world to call a leader of a mainstream party dangerous.

[hypochondriac]

  On 16/10/2021 at 10:20, Fan The Flames said:

I totally agree that someone in the shadow cabinet shouldn't be using the word scum about political opponents. It's preaches to the choir and turns off the others, totally counter productive. Call out policies not names.

Not a Corbyn fan but isn't it a bit of a leap in to the conspiracy world to call a leader of a mainstream party dangerous.

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It's a side point but I don't have any problem with someone discussing someone's ideas and whether they would have dangerous outcomes. That's not really the same as personal attacks or calling someone scum for example. 

[Turkish]

  On 16/10/2021 at 07:33, sadoldgit said:

Maybe women should be protected from men? Maybe we should all just stay home? What a stupid comment, even by your low standards Delldays. How would your plan have saved the life of Jo Cox?

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Some Women aren’t safe from men at home either. What a stupid comment even by your low standards Soggy.

[sadoldgit]

  On 16/10/2021 at 08:14, AlexLaw76 said:

stick to the topic.

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So you don’t have a problem if a murder is carried out by a white supremacist?

[AlexLaw76]

  On 17/10/2021 at 08:20, sadoldgit said:

So you don’t have a problem if a murder is carried out by a white supremacist?

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Not sure what you are on about, but carry on with your own self-embarrassment!

Edited 17 October, 2021 by AlexLaw76

[whelk]

  On 17/10/2021 at 08:20, sadoldgit said:

So you don’t have a problem if a murder is carried out by a white supremacist?

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Classic SOG

[hypochondriac]

  On 17/10/2021 at 08:20, sadoldgit said:

So you don’t have a problem if a murder is carried out by a white supremacist?

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What do you think about the stats I posted above? It suggests that offences of this nature are vastly disproportionately committed by Asian or self identified as Muslim. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 17/10/2021 at 09:17, whelk said:

Classic SOG

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He would never reference the clear and obvious problem that the Muslim community has with terrorism in the UK. It doesn't matter how many attacks there are. 

[rooney]

  On 17/10/2021 at 09:18, hypochondriac said:

What do you think about the stats I posted above? It suggests that offences of this nature are vastly disproportionately committed by Asian or self identified as Muslim. 

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Not surprised to see these stats at all. They come here for a better life and then wish to kill us and we have to pay to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives.

[hypochondriac]

  On 18/10/2021 at 07:59, rooney said:

Not surprised to see these stats at all. They come here for a better life and then wish to kill us and we have to pay to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives.

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Important to point out it's still a minority, albeit a minority that is vastly bigger than from other groups. It's clear there's an issue but political correctness or apologism means it won't be addressed. 

Edited 18 October, 2021 by hypochondriac

[Winnersaint]

I know he's a bit Marmite but James O'Brien doing a nice tribute to the man this morning on LBC, getting callers to recall when their MPs did something for them. Nice call from a lifelong Labour voter who was helped by his local Tory MP in Hemel Hempstead.

[whelk]

Good to see in Parliament MPs being civil and sympathetic across all sides.

[sadoldgit]

  On 17/10/2021 at 09:17, whelk said:

Classic SOG

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It’s a fair point though. Delldays didn’t kick off when Jo Cox was killed by a white supremacist but when I suggested that MPs (all of them) be given armed guards he comes back with his usual anti foreigner jibe. He only seems to have a problem with specific types of murderers.

[Fan The Flames]

  On 18/10/2021 at 08:41, hypochondriac said:

Important to point out it's still a minority, albeit a minority that is vastly bigger than from other groups. It's clear there's an issue but political correctness or apologism means it won't be addressed. 

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There is an issue with religious mentalists and fascists. The authorities attempt to deal with it through anti-terrorist agencies and the Prevent program. But its very difficult.

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 19/10/2021 at 11:50, sadoldgit said:

It’s a fair point though. Delldays didn’t kick off when Jo Cox was killed by a white supremacist but when I suggested that MPs (all of them) be given armed guards he comes back with his usual anti foreigner jibe. He only seems to have a problem with specific types of murderers.

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Classic SOG

Edited 19 October, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Turkish]

  On 19/10/2021 at 11:50, sadoldgit said:

It’s a fair point though. Delldays didn’t kick off when Jo Cox was killed by a white supremacist but when I suggested that MPs (all of them) be given armed guards he comes back with his usual anti foreigner jibe. He only seems to have a problem with specific types of murderers.

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So do you…

[hypochondriac]

  On 19/10/2021 at 13:20, Fan The Flames said:

There is an issue with religious mentalists and fascists. The authorities attempt to deal with it through anti-terrorist agencies and the Prevent program. But its very difficult.

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Yes but the point is that the religious mentalists are overwhelmingly from one religion according to the stats. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 19/10/2021 at 11:50, sadoldgit said:

It’s a fair point though. Delldays didn’t kick off when Jo Cox was killed by a white supremacist but when I suggested that MPs (all of them) be given armed guards he comes back with his usual anti foreigner jibe. He only seems to have a problem with specific types of murderers.

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I see you've ignored the stats I posted above. 

[Turkish]

  On 19/10/2021 at 16:05, hypochondriac said:

I see you've ignored the stats I posted above. 

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If you didn’t know better you’d think soggy was a wind up merchant. Genuinely don’t understand how someone like that survives in life