Chelsea 3-1 Saints - Match Thread

[DT]

Watford talking to Ranieri after doing their manager sacking. Jealous. 

[stknowle]

4 minutes ago, sad saints fan said:

https://www.whoscored.com/Referees/85/Show/Mike-Dean

There I have found something . Think this proves he has no vendetta against SFC

I don't think he has a vendetta or is involved in any kind of conspiracy. I do however think he is an absolute cunt.

[Lord Duckhunter]

What reason has Dean got to engage in a vendetta against us. Risking his whole career, reputation (for what it’s worth), for a small provincial club that’s won one thing it’s it’s whole history. The upshot of his cunning plan is what? What has he got to win by stitching us up. We’re of no consequence to the wider football world. Fuck me, some of our supporters are prized Nods. 

Edited 3 October, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[whelk]

27 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

Except it wasn't a red card offence, it was no more than a yellow.

A terrible change of decision. 

You do know Dean wasn’t the ref yesterday?

[Chapel End]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

You do know Dean wasn’t the ref yesterday?

Yes

[HarvSFC]

The issue with Dean isn't that he has a dislike/vendetta against us, it's that he thrives off the attention that comes with being a referee and enjoys making the big decisions that seem "soft", because he knows it will get people talking about him. This has always been clear when he's the match referee and has been thrown at him many a time before. Now he can do the same from the VAR set-up and even as a fan of Tranmere, when he knows the Sky cameras are about, he's going to put on a show.

[Chapel End]

1 hour ago, DT said:

Watford talking to Ranieri after doing their manager sacking. Jealous. 

Toddle off to Watford then 🙄

Edited 3 October, 2021 by Chapel End

[nta786]

2 hours ago, JRM said:

I'm fairly sure Dean wasn't involved in any of our games after this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55922560

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11700/12208471/southampton-appeal-jan-bednarek-red-no-truth-in-mike-dean-and-lee-mason-requests-to-avoid-future-games
 

Here you are, I think the Athletic reported similar too. 
You’re right he didn’t officiate any more games after the Old Trafford humbling but I think given the rumours generated it was easy for PGMOL to take him off any of our games.

I don’t think Dean has anything against us, I just think the bloke is a knob. Though no doubt these comments from Ralph could be fuelling something soon.
If i remember correctly he also incorrectly sent off an WHU player the following game which caused vitriol too.

It seems like every time Dean refs there is just something contentious or he wants all the limelight where possible. I’ll give it to him he does a bloody good job of it everytime too.

In an ideal world he should be relegated to the Championship but the PGMOL is very much a closed circle and he might even have dirt on Mike Riley or something... we’ll never know. 

[Turkish]

 

 

5 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Tell me that’s a joke please 

I wish it was 

[egg]

2 hours ago, Chapel End said:

Except it wasn't a red card offence, it was no more than a yellow.

A terrible change of decision. 

We'll agree to differ. If that tackle was the other way around, we'd all have been calling for a red. 

[Millbrook Saint]

47 minutes ago, egg said:

We'll agree to differ. If that tackle was the other way around, we'd all have been calling for a red. 

You're missing the point, some refs would have given a red, some a yellow, var is there if the ref missed something, he missed nothing and gave a yellow, if he'd given a red so be it, what happened afterwards was Dean looked at it, decided he would have given a red and instructed the referee to take a look again, it's not var, or deans job to say I would have given this for that, it's their job to say 'hey that player just gave matey a slap and you were looking the other way, go look' or 'you gave nothing for that challenge, think you should take another look, he took him right out' it's not there so dean can micro ref every decision made by the on pitch officials

Edited 3 October, 2021 by Millbrook Saint

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

You're missing the point, some refs would have given a red, some a yellow, var is there if the ref missed something, he missed nothing and gave a yellow, if he'd given a red so be it, what happened afterwards was Dean looked at it, decided he would have given a red and instructed the referee to take a look again, it's not var, or deans job to say I would have given this for that, it's their job to say 'hey that player just gave matey a slap and you were looking the other way, go look' or 'you gave nothing for that challenge, think you should take another look, he took him right out' it's not there so dean can micro ref every decision made by the on pitch officials

I'm missing nothing. Var felt it was worth another look, and as a result the yellow became the red it should have been. Its not a complicated thing, or the vendetta that some people seem to think. 

[Chapel End]

1 hour ago, egg said:

We'll agree to differ. If that tackle was the other way around, we'd all have been calling for a red. 

Speak for yourself. 

[Hawkswood]

1 hour ago, egg said:

We'll agree to differ. If that tackle was the other way around, we'd all have been calling for a red. 

I agree. I thought it was a red card also, especially under current rules. 

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm missing nothing. Var felt it was worth another look, and as a result the yellow became the red it should have been. Its not a complicated thing, or the vendetta that some people seem to think. 

It wasn’t VAR, it was Mike Dean. His decision and his alone.

[Chapel End]

If it hadn't gone to VAR, no one on here would have said anything 

[egg]

10 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

Speak for yourself. 

Watch it without your red and white specs on. He arrived late and took both his legs. No malice, but bloody dangerous. A red all day long. 

As I say, we'll agree to differ. 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

25 minutes ago, egg said:

Watch it without your red and white specs on. He arrived late and took both his legs. No malice, but bloody dangerous. A red all day long. 

As I say, we'll agree to differ. 

 

We do differ. Both his legs???

[Mosin]

50 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm missing nothing. Var felt it was worth another look, and as a result the yellow became the red it should have been. Its not a complicated thing, or the vendetta that some people seem to think. 

But var is for clear and obvious mistakes, ref didnt miss the foul, just didnt punish accordly to the official behind the screen which is wrong and not how var is meant to be used.

Just for the record, its a red for me, but var shouldnt be getting invloved in things the on field ref didnt miss, It was not a clear and obvious mistake

[whelk]

So when Brighton had player sent off against us after VAR took a look at tackle presumably we got lucky as we had a ref who had a vendetta against Brighton?
 

 

 

 

Edited 3 October, 2021 by whelk

[whelk]

24 minutes ago, Mosin said:

But var is for clear and obvious mistakes, ref didnt miss the foul, just didnt punish accordly to the official behind the screen which is wrong and not how var is meant to be used.

Just for the record, its a red for me, but var shouldnt be getting invloved in things the on field ref didnt miss, It was not a clear and obvious mistake

Fuck me how do people watch football and not have a clue how VAR works? 
 

[austsaint]

4 hours ago, Chapel End said:

Except it wasn't a red card offence, it was no more than a yellow.

A terrible change of decision. 

I'm weighing in late.   Ward-Prowse would have been lucky to get away with a yellow for that botched attempt at a tackle.  Have a look at the distance the Chelsea players foot moves after the studs up contact with the ankle; there is substantial contact and force - it did remind me of Bertrand's red v Leicester.     As for Dean - he strikes me as an official who likes a bit of spotlight and drama.    He would be well suited as a Rugby Union referee - but accusations of singling out Saints?    Nah.

[There when Franny scored]

32 minutes ago, whelk said:

Fuck me how do people watch football and not have a clue how VAR works? 
 

Seems like you don't understand what "clear and obvious" means. I think it was a red card. However, the fact that they're even debating it on MOTD means that it wasn't a clear and obvious error. By the application of the rules of the game, as we are led to believe they are applied, the yellow card should not have been overturned. 

[Mosin]

16 minutes ago, whelk said:

Fuck me how do people watch football and not have a clue how VAR works? 
 

i know how it works,

All red cards awarded in the Premier League will automatically be checked by the Video Assistant Referee (VAR).

The VAR will also check for possible red-card incidents for which the on-field referee has awarded a yellow card or no card at all.

The VAR will look to identify a “clear and obvious error”.


Chelsea made a big mistake and JWP was a fraction late on a challange that could put them in with a chance to score and take the lead, it was a worthy of a red card but also a yellow, but the orginal decision shouldnt have been overturned as it wasnt clear and obvious error imho and is more down to opinion on how serious one thinks the tackle was than any thing else.

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 minutes ago, There when Franny scored said:

Seems like you don't understand what "clear and obvious" means. I think it was a red card. However, the fact that they're even debating it on MOTD means that it wasn't a clear and obvious error. By the application of the rules of the game, as we are led to believe they are applied, the yellow card should not have been overturned. 

The VAR clearly thought it was a clear and obvious error. The referee could have stood with his original decision, but didn’t. Do people really think Mike Dean can influence the referee to such an extent that he thought “it’s a yellow, but as Mike thinks it’s a red, it must be a red”. 

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, There when Franny scored said:

Seems like you don't understand what "clear and obvious" means. I think it was a red card. However, the fact that they're even debating it on MOTD means that it wasn't a clear and obvious error. By the application of the rules of the game, as we are led to believe they are applied, the yellow card should not have been overturned. 

I've just watched Murphy, Lineker, and Wright on MOTD agree unanimously that it was a red card and the right decision?

It was a red card. If Jorginho's foot is an inch further back JWP would have made full contact on his ankle at speed and out of control. It would have been an ankle breaker. Do we only want to send players off for dangerous tackles when a player gets injured?

I can't even see how our fans think its contentious tbh, makes you realise how perceptions vary. I thought he was very lucky to get a yellow as it happened, and JWP's reaction said similar from him... then i remembered there is VAR and sure enough he got his orders. A shame though. And its a total injustice when we get crap like the man city decision going the other way against us.

Edited 3 October, 2021 by Saint86

[SaintTex]

wont be seeing JWP until 5 Nov. 

[egg]

9 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We do differ. Both his legs???

Yep. Sure the contact was minimal, and matey went down like he'd been shot, but it was late and reckless. 

 

[Dman]

9 hours ago, egg said:

Watch it without your red and white specs on. He arrived late and took both his legs. No malice, but bloody dangerous. A red all day long. 

As I say, we'll agree to differ. 

 

Yep. 100% a red, on another day it was a leg breaker. 

VAR used correctly and doing exactly what It should. 

[Billy the Kidd]

I can see why it was a red, but the fact there are so many differing opinions on here suggest it could have been a red, could have been a yellow. It was late, and stupid i think, but he went in 1 footed studs barely up. 

For me, VAR is to rectify clear/obvious mistakes. I dont think it was so clear to be a red, and therefore VAR wasnt correctly used. In the same way if the ref gave a red and it was VAR reviewed, I dont think it should have been downgraded to a yellow.

[whelk]

I was at the game and was fuming at decision. However not naive enough to think VAR doesn’t look at all dive tackles that get a yellow. 

[whelk]

19 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I can see why it was a red, but the fact there are so many differing opinions on here suggest it could have been a red, could have been a yellow. It was late, and stupid i think, but he went in 1 footed studs barely up. 

For me, VAR is to rectify clear/obvious mistakes. I dont think it was so clear to be a red, and therefore VAR wasnt correctly used. In the same way if the ref gave a red and it was VAR reviewed, I dont think it should have been downgraded to a yellow.

I don’t think you want to use ‘opinions on here’ as a barometer. Surprised someone hasn’t disputed Chilwell’s shot crossed the line.

[Turkish]

10 hours ago, egg said:

Watch it without your red and white specs on. He arrived late and took both his legs. No malice, but bloody dangerous. A red all day long. 

As I say, we'll agree to differ. 

 

Red card all day long, he was 1/2 second late, it wasn't malicious but that's a red card all day.

[StrangelyBrown]

14 hours ago, Chapel End said:

Except it wasn't a red card offence, it was no more than a yellow.

A terrible change of decision. 

It really was a red card. Jwp had both feet off the floor and therefore was not in control = red card.

[Billy the Kidd]

22 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

It really was a red card. Jwp had both feet off the floor and therefore was not in control = red card.

He never had two feet off the floor, certainly not when he caught the player. Red card, possibly, but not quite as you see it, at least for me.

[Billy the Kidd]

27 minutes ago, whelk said:

I don’t think you want to use ‘opinions on here’ as a barometer. Surprised someone hasn’t disputed Chilwell’s shot crossed the line.

I must admit I wasnt sure it crossed the line, but seeing the graphic it was only just but still a goal.

Although thought it was funny one poster, not sure who, moaned the keeper didnt dive for that goal. I thought Macca had his best game in a long while for us on Saturday, and did a good attempt to save the 3rd goal.

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I must admit I wasnt sure it crossed the line, but seeing the graphic it was only just but still a goal.

Although thought it was funny one poster, not sure who, moaned the keeper didnt dive for that goal. I thought Macca had his best game in a long while for us on Saturday, and did a good attempt to save the 3rd goal.

Maybe, but I still think that he plays too close to his goal line.

[Whitey Grandad]

Peter Walton in The Times today (the first sentence refers to the Werner disallowed ’goal’)

”But I don’t think it was sufficient contact for a foul. It was not enough for a “clear and obvious” error, and the bar was set too low in the intervention of VAR. Thomas Tuchel and Ralph Hasenhüttl both criticised the VAR, Mike Dean, and I do think he intervened too much on Saturday. VAR had an influence on the game, and this is not what it is for. It is not there to always get the correct decision, but to prevent howlers.”

I don’t always agree with him but I do today. 

[Billy the Kidd]

39 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Maybe, but I still think that he plays too close to his goal line.

Yeah I agree with that, the Burnely goal direct from a corner was bad, and we know he isn’t great and likely to upgrade next season so will be fine as back up next year. 

[Chickendippers]

I don't think either VAR intervention was correct or necessary by which I think the ref got it right on both occasions. There was barely any momentum when JWP made contact with Jorghino - it was definitely not a 'leg breaker'. the slo mo made it look much worse than it was. Werners 'goal' for 2-0 should have stood - we had plenty of time to get organised (and we were) - our defence just didn't do a very good job in marking him. Again the ref got the decision right to award the goal. i doubt either side or supporters would have been too bothered if those decisions had stood as they were. I'm still fuming about the Man City referral which possibly cost us 2 points and now we have lost our captain for a couple of games due to another uneccesary VAR intervention.

[whelk]

19 minutes ago, Chickendippers said:

I don't think either VAR intervention was correct or necessary by which I think the ref got it right on both occasions. There was barely any momentum when JWP made contact with Jorghino - it was definitely not a 'leg breaker'. the slo mo made it look much worse than it was. Werners 'goal' for 2-0 should have stood - we had plenty of time to get organised (and we were) - our defence just didn't do a very good job in marking him. Again the ref got the decision right to award the goal. i doubt either side or supporters would have been too bothered if those decisions had stood as they were. I'm still fuming about the Man City referral which possibly cost us 2 points and now we have lost our captain for a couple of games due to another uneccesary VAR intervention.

Werner’s disallowed goal was just Mike Dean throwing people off the scent as realised he was getting close to having his Saints vendetta exposed.

[Charlie Wayman]

Has it not occurred to people that because JWP comes across as a decent bloke and a generally good sport that refs actually like him and probably more disposed to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Perhaps Atkinson on this occasion gave JWP the benefit of any doubts he had about his dangerous and ill-judged tackle. Refs do have some discretion in making in-play judgements after all. Thus a clear and obvious error on Atkinson's part when it should have been a red card immediately.

[StrangelyBrown]

6 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

He never had two feet off the floor, certainly not when he caught the player. Red card, possibly, but not quite as you see it, at least for me.

It might not be a Head height Kung Fu kick but both feet are not in any way connected to the ground or in control of his body.

[Billy the Kidd]

7 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

It might not be a Head height Kung Fu kick but both feet are not in any way connected to the ground or in control of his body.

I’m not sure how you expect people to make a sliding tackle with one leg planted on the ground - it cant be done 😅

Why do you feel both feet (or one) need to be on the floor to tackle - that just isn’t how football happens.

I think you have a view, which is fine, that the tackle was reckless, but you cant start making things up to back up your point.

The only thing JWP did wrong was be .5 second late, had it been timed correctly it is likely it wouldn’t have been a foul.

[StrangelyBrown]

12 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I’m not sure how you expect people to make a sliding tackle with one leg planted on the ground - it cant be done 😅

Why do you feel both feet (or one) need to be on the floor to tackle - that just isn’t how football happens.

I think you have a view, which is fine, that the tackle was reckless, but you cant start making things up to back up your point.

The only thing JWP did wrong was be .5 second late, had it been timed correctly it is likely it wouldn’t have been a foul.

What exactly have I made up?

I think actually were largely in agreement but if you need to turn this into a pissing contest crack on...

[Whitey Grandad]

26 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

It might not be a Head height Kung Fu kick but both feet are not in any way connected to the ground or in control of his body.

His left leg spends the entire time on the ground.

Reckless is a yellow.

Reckless with excessive force is a red.

[OldNick]

Amazing that Zovachic did a bad tackle that injured Redmond and didnt get a yellow. 

[Billy the Kidd]

4 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

What exactly have I made up?

I think actually were largely in agreement but if you need to turn this into a pissing contest crack on...

Sorry if you think im turning it into a pissing contest - why would you think that - strange way of reading my posts!!

You have been saying he was two footed off the ground and out of control - that is the bit I was saying didnt happen.

I mean, it is largely irrelevant as he was sent off so who cares, but he wasnt out of control or two footed - he was a fraction late into the tackle.

[SaintSteve]

10 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Sorry if you think im turning it into a pissing contest - why would you think that - strange way of reading my posts!!

You have been saying he was two footed off the ground and out of control - that is the bit I was saying didnt happen.

I mean, it is largely irrelevant as he was sent off so who cares, but he wasnt out of control or two footed - he was a fraction late into the tackle.

Yes he was out of control. It was a senseless tackle as even if he’d won the ball, a free kick would have been awarded.

I’m not too disappointed as Ward-Prowse has been average at best this season and I want to see Diallo given a run as our forward play may well speed up as a result.

[Billy the Kidd]

20 minutes ago, SaintSteve said:

Yes he was out of control. It was a senseless tackle as even if he’d won the ball, a free kick would have been awarded.

I’m not too disappointed as Ward-Prowse has been average at best this season and I want to see Diallo given a run as our forward play may well speed up as a result.

In your opinion, which I recognise.

In my opinion, I dont believe had he timed it perfectly it would have been a free kick.

Maybe Diallo will come in and play great, he may play in JWPs defensive position, so not sure he would be too much further forward. Or SA may go next to Romeu, allowing Diallo to go further forward, that said, Diallo is hopeless at shooting and not sure his passing is much better since watching him play when he gets the chance.

JWP seems to have a niggling injury, was a yard off the pace, so maybe this works out for the best all round.