Saints 0-1 Wolves - Match Thread

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Personally I though that Bednarek was foulded but  there again there were plenty of other incidents that I thought were fouls too. 

Fair enough, I wondered if he had initially, but on serving viewing he just want strong enough and got rolled, for me I’d be fuming if we had a goal disallowed for that. 

[Billy the Kidd]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Given Jiminez is holding Bednarek's arm and Bednarek is holding Jiminez's shirt, doesn't who should've been awarded a foul depend on who grabbed who first? (I've no idea who grabbed who first btw)

Possibly but to me it was six of one etc, like I just said to Whiteley I’d be well pissed if we were pulled back for a foul on the defender. 

[Micky]

There isn't a foul in there.  Suck it up - we got done, at home, again.

[beatlesaint]

5 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If somebody had turned up with 5 minutes left and didn’t know the score , they’d have thought it was 0-0. There was absolutely no urgency or a change of approach from us. We chucked Shane Long and the big fella on, and then continued to pass it backward square and slowly. Why wasn’t golden bollocks getting hold of the game and the side, pushing them on, driving us forward. Instead he was fannying around pushing up his passing stats. Woeful. 

When has he ever got hold of a game and driven us forward ? He’s a free kick specialist who at present can’t even take a fkin corner. Last year he was very good, so far this year he’s reverted to the days when every manager (Poch, Koeman, Puel, the Argie bloke) picked him then ended up having to drop him cos he was ineffective. Basically this season we haven’t just lost Ings, we’ve lost JWP as well.

The biggest problem yesterday was the front four were totally ineffective. Adams and Armstrong aren’t gonna score enough to keep us up despite some people wheeling out their “they only need to score 6 or 7 each” bloody stat. Redmond and Moi are unable to feed the strikers, Moi has more about him than the other bloody fool but he’s not very quick at doing it.

Half time should have seen Broja, Tella and Perrard on with Redmond, Moi and Adams off and use the pace of Tella down one side and Tino on the other  to just run at them and get the ball in the box. But no, we fuck around with JWP or Romeu coming back towards the centre backs to pick up the ball.

Edited 27 September, 2021 by beatlesaint

[Lord Duckhunter]

Telling that not one of our players got into Bednarek or the referee after the goal, not one. They just dropped their heads and waited for wolves to get back for the kick off like the nice polite boys they are. Does either one of our keepers ever dish out bollockings when we’re done, does the skipper ever gee people up or get on their case. No, we’re soft as shite. 

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Telling that not one of our players got into Bednarek or the referee after the goal, not one. They just dropped their heads and waited for wolves to get back for the kick off like the nice polite boys they are. Does either one of our keepers ever dish out bollockings when we’re done, does the skipper ever gee people up or get on their case. No, we’re soft as shite. 

Agreed, I often find that colleagues screaming abuse in my face if I make a mistake significantly improves my performance thereafter.

[Toussaint]

27 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

When has he ever got hold of a game and driven us forward ? He’s a free kick specialist who at present can’t even take a fkin corner. Last year he was very good, so far this year he’s reverted to the days when every manager (Poch, Koeman, Puel, the Argie bloke) picked him then ended up having to drop him cos he was ineffective. Basically this season we haven’t just lost Ings, we’ve lost JWP as well.

The biggest problem yesterday was the front four were totally ineffective. Adams and Armstrong aren’t gonna score enough to keep us up despite some people wheeling out their “they only need to score 6 or 7 each” bloody stat. Redmond and Moi are unable to feed the strikers, Moi has more about him than the other bloody fool but he’s not very quick at doing it.

Half time should have seen Broja, Tella and Perrard on with Redmond, Moi and Adams off and use the pace of Tella down one side and Tino on the other  to just run at them and get the ball in the box. But no, we fuck around with JWP or Romeu coming back towards the centre backs to pick up the ball.

If the vibes coming from Ralph are to be believed it sounds as though Broja doesn't give a crap about being here. (this weeks Total Saints Podcast)

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, Toussaint said:

If the vibes coming from Ralph are to be believed it sounds as though Broja doesn't give a crap about being here. (this weeks Total Saints Podcast)

didnt look like that against West Ham a fortnight ago

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Agreed, I often find that colleagues screaming abuse in my face if I make a mistake significantly improves my performance thereafter.

Who said anything about screaming abuse. Watch other sides, they dig each other out. Players have done it for years. 
 

Why didn’t anyone go to the referee, other sides do it. Nope, we’re good little boys, credit to the game. 
 

Have you ever wondered why we keep making mistakes? 

Edited 27 September, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Toussaint]

5 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

didnt look like that against West Ham a fortnight ago

Ralph said something before that game about his application, then he had the good cameo against West Ham, apparently (according to Dan Sheldon), he looked poor against Sheffield United reserves last week.  

[Lighthouse]

31 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Who said anything about screaming abuse. Watch other sides, they dig each other out. Players have done it for years.

Then you're going to have to be more specific about the precise level of anger you expect to be displayed. I'm afraid I don't know how you define, "digging each other out," and, "getting into Bednarek," and how that differs from shouting abuse.

31 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Why didn’t anyone go to the referee, other sides do it

Does it work?

31 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Have you ever wondered why we keep making mistakes?

Because they are human beings, they aren't infallible and they playing against some of the best players in the world. You criticise our players for not getting in the refs face, 'like other sides do' but disregard the fact that other team's players also make plenty of mistakes 

[derry]

One of our biggest problems is recycling the ball without movement or tempo whilst our opponents are allowed to reset and defend in numbers as the congestion gets worse.

We need to play at a high tempo from the back, get the ball going forward quickly and breaking the defensive lines while there is space behind. Hassenhutl doesn't seem to get some basic don't does. Unless there is no alternative do not play players out of position. Perrault at left back. Piss or get off the pot. Tino or KWP, alternatively try both on the right. On the left Redmond and Djenepo give us different problems for me go pace with Tella or Broja or even both of them on either side if Adams has to play.. Up front Adams runs about but is nearly always late getting into the box.

We need to up our tempo and pace That then leaves JWP, Romeu and Bednarek as the players lacking pace. We need to break at pace and don't need JWP and Romeu working the ball around. They would be best holding in front of the centre backs and giving us a bit of cover. They rarely do anything useful up front anyway.

[derry]

Another thing that we shouldn't be doing is the centre backs defending square. One attacker, Bednarek goalside to aggressively deal with the attacker, Salisu tucked in diagonally goalside of Bednarek who can ruthlessly deal with the forward without fear of being sent off.

Edited 27 September, 2021 by derry

[DT]

4 hours ago, SalmonSi said:

Not the best way to make your introduction post on a forum, but I had a bet on us losing yesterday as it was just so obvious. I think the mistake a lot of fanms make is getting over excited and seeing ponly the best in the players without realising the truth that they will probablyu only play that well as a team about 10 games a season. The rest of the time we are bottom 4 or 5 side at best. 

Personally I think it is time for Raplh to go. We need a fresh new direction. Yeah, I know EH took Bournemouth down, but as we all know in this game, it does not always follow that a failure before means a failure at another club. In any case, I honestly think it is clear as crystal that RH has kind of lost the plot with his selections and subs. 

Agreed. But suspect we’re so skint that we can’t afford his and his staff’s payoff. It needs to be done soon or it’s curtains. 

[Totton Saint]

21 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

What a shitty game. I know that we were poor but Wolves have lost any respect that I might have had for their illustrious past. Lying around all over the place like a bunch of cripples. Nast, niggling, destructive, whatever happened to the beautiful game? I go to watch football even if it is the other team that’s playing it.

Only six minutes of added time, twenty-five of which were for their goal celebration, substitutions and above all, time wasting.

Yes - what did happen to the beautiful game?  It has lost its soul.  Players milling around all behind the goal at the first sign of an attack. It's a wonder any one goes to the games now

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

Yes - what did happen to the beautiful game?  It has lost its soul.  Players milling around all behind the goal at the first sign of an attack. It's a wonder any one goes to the games now

It sold its soul to the TV companies.

[hackedoff]

1 hour ago, derry said:

One of our biggest problems is recycling the ball without movement or tempo whilst our opponents are allowed to reset and defend in numbers as the congestion gets worse.

We need to play at a high tempo from the back, get the ball going forward quickly and breaking the defensive lines while there is space behind. Hassenhutl doesn't seem to get some basic don't does. Unless there is no alternative do not play players out of position. Perrault at left back. Piss or get off the pot. Tino or KWP, alternatively try both on the right. On the left Redmond and Djenepo give us different problems for me go pace with Tella or Broja or even both of them on either side if Adams has to play.. Up front Adams runs about but is nearly always late getting into the box.

We need to up our tempo and pace That then leaves JWP, Romeu and Bednarek as the players lacking pace. We need to break at pace and don't need JWP and Romeu working the ball around. They would be best holding in front of the centre backs and giving us a bit of cover. They rarely do anything useful up front anyway.

This is the prime reason we are woeful at scoring,the attacks are so long in coming due to the constant sideways/backward passing,the opponents are all back defending. Yet he still persists with it in the vain hope that something will change.

Oh yes,I nearly forgot,it makes for a dire,boring spectable of entertainment ad well.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

15 minutes ago, hackedoff said:

This is the prime reason we are woeful at scoring,the attacks are so long in coming due to the constant sideways/backward passing,the opponents are all back defending. Yet he still persists with it in the vain hope that something will change.

Oh yes,I nearly forgot,it makes for a dire,boring spectable of entertainment ad well.

 

Made even worse if the opposition score first and can just sit back and defend.

[East Kent Saint]

44 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

Yes - what did happen to the beautiful game?  It has lost its soul.  Players milling around all behind the goal at the first sign of an attack. It's a wonder any one goes to the games now

They keep changing the rules , in the old days you could pass back to the keeper , once the defence got the ball they rolled it back to the keeper . The attacking side retreated until the keeper booted or threw the ball out again . Hence end to end football …

[DT]

Watching Palace v Brighton. The difference in pace and intensity between both teams and us is stark. 

[hackedoff]

11 minutes ago, DT said:

Watching Palace v Brighton. The difference in pace and intensity between both teams and us is stark. 

Whereas we have a team with very little skill,pace or fight. Doesn't auger well.

[Minsk]

11 hours ago, SalmonSi said:

Not the best way to make your introduction post on a forum, but I had a bet on us losing yesterday as it was just so obvious. I think the mistake a lot of fanms make is getting over excited and seeing ponly the best in the players without realising the truth that they will probablyu only play that well as a team about 10 games a season. The rest of the time we are bottom 4 or 5 side at best. 

Personally I think it is time for Raplh to go. We need a fresh new direction. Yeah, I know EH took Bournemouth down, but as we all know in this game, it does not always follow that a failure before means a failure at another club. In any case, I honestly think it is clear as crystal that RH has kind of lost the plot with his selections and subs. 

We were 6 games unbeaten before this match. Can't really knock team selections when that happens. In the first match we were the better team in the 1st half; fell apart in the 2nd. For this match we were the better team in everything excepts where it matters, goals scored - more possession, far better passing, around 3.5 times as many shots, twice as many on target. Again, how can you knock his team selection? I called the team on the 4th post of this thread; there really weren't many options - KWP or Perraud at LB and which two played in AM positions. KWP had a good match last time out, so can see why he was picked. He just had a poor game yesterday. With our best AM injured, there isn't really much between the others. Redmond's finish for the off-side goal was actually quite decent; Moi is doing better than most thought he would, but still lacks pace; Djenepo can go past a player and has learned to tackle - just lacks the end product.

I think Ralph has done much better with his use of subs so far this season - although can't for the life of me understand why he brought Long on instead of Tella on Sunday, but I guess he had his reasons. He has also got the team playing in different shapes, both from the outset and during matches. Yes we haven't won yet, but we didn't win any of the corresponding matches last season either. In fact we lost all bar 1, which we drew. Imagine if that were the same this time around.......

Really don't want EH here. Failed at Bournemouth (in the prem) where he had a lot more money to spend than Ralph has had with us, and failed at Burnley. What makes you think he would succeed here?

[Hayling Saint]

3 minutes ago, Minsk said:

We were 6 games unbeaten before this match. Can't really knock team selections when that happens. In the first match we were the better team in the 1st half; fell apart in the 2nd. For this match we were the better team in everything excepts where it matters, goals scored - more possession, far better passing, around 3.5 times as many shots, twice as many on target. Again, how can you knock his team selection? I called the team on the 4th post of this thread; there really weren't many options - KWP or Perraud at LB and which two played in AM positions. KWP had a good match last time out, so can see why he was picked. He just had a poor game yesterday. With our best AM injured, there isn't really much between the others. Redmond's finish for the off-side goal was actually quite decent; Moi is doing better than most thought he would, but still lacks pace; Djenepo can go past a player and has learned to tackle - just lacks the end product.

I think Ralph has done much better with his use of subs so far this season - although can't for the life of me understand why he brought Long on instead of Tella on Sunday, but I guess he had his reasons. He has also got the team playing in different shapes, both from the outset and during matches. Yes we haven't won yet, but we didn't win any of the corresponding matches last season either. In fact we lost all bar 1, which we drew. Imagine if that were the same this time around.......

Really don't want EH here. Failed at Bournemouth (in the prem) where he had a lot more money to spend than Ralph has had with us, and failed at Burnley. What makes you think he would succeed here?

so true

[cloggy saint]

I wouldn't call taking Bournemouth from the brink to the PL a failure. Wouldn't really want him here though.

[Singapore Saint]

On 26/09/2021 at 23:57, OttawaSaint said:

The problem is, we need to score to win. Where’s that goal going to come from?

Adams P71 G13 18.3%

A Armstrong P6 1G 16.7%

Redmond P172 G20 11.6%

Elyanoussi P22 G4 18%

Djenepo P51 G3 5.9%

JWP P275 G31 11.3%

Romeu P186 G5 2.9%

No one better then a goal every 5 games...

You haven't got Shane Long's stats in there, does he not score goals?

[HnycS]

You haven't got Shane Long's stats in there, does he not score goals?

What a great question, now I get it Ralph is playing Moneyball and brought Shane Long on in the near certainty that he would turn the game around based upon this excellent analysis from a highly trusted source! 

Per WIkipedia Long P185 G27 14.6%

What does this prove? Ralph should play Adams, Armstrong and Long, given an infinite amount of games one of them will win a game with a hat-trick, one will score the fastest hat-trick ever and the other will out score Ronaldo, difficult to know which one will do which though!

 

Edited 28 September, 2021 by HnycS

[East Kent Saint]

2 hours ago, Singapore Saint said:

You haven't got Shane Long's stats in there, does he not score goals?

🤣 I can't remember him scoring apart for a long range effort some years ago ......

[Saints foreva]

7 hours ago, cloggy saint said:

I wouldn't call taking Bournemouth from the brink to the PL a failure. Wouldn't really want him here though.

They were bankrolled. 

[rallyboy]

Surely we didn't put that much in the buckets?

[Cabrone]

Best we can hope for is just avoiding relegation. There is no energy or hope about the club at the moment.

[MAY-Z]

On 27/09/2021 at 05:35, Saint86 said:

This is utter nonsense. Pony in fact. Wolves' goal came off of a longball from the goalkeeper straight to Jiminez.... 🙃 What do you want our attackers to do from the opposing keepers goal kick?!?!?!

Outside of that goal, they had 1 chance prior to scoring and we totally outplayed them. They parked the bus and won with a very well taken goal from a top class striker. The only real complaint saints can have from today is that our new look attack has the age old problem of not being able to break down a well drilled defence.

I don’t think you understand at all what I was getting at. I am not blaming the attackers at all.

I know it was a long ball from the keeper, that it my point, it was a long quick ball upfield played before a defence could get set. We are not allowed to play long quick balls, we have to build up very slowly allowing opposition defences to get into position.

ralph requires the same slow build up every time, and whilst he does that we will never be able to hit teams unaware or in space

[cloggy saint]

1 hour ago, Cabrone said:

Best we can hope for is just avoiding relegation. There is no energy or hope about the club at the moment.

With a (very) few exceptions that's the best I've hoped for in 45 years of supporting Saints.

[beatlesaint]

4 hours ago, Saints foreva said:

They were bankrolled. 

Yeah but that was only after they had reached the Premier League wasnt it ?

Either way it was only when Howe had money to spend it went tits up for him, he/they bought a load of rubbish and never addressed their main issue which was they couldnt defend to save their lives.

He wouldnt have any problem with spending a lot of money here !

Having said that I dont want him at Southampton thankyou very much.    

[Berkshire Saint]

4 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Yeah but that was only after they had reached the Premier League wasnt it ?

 

Seem to recall they breached financial fair play rules in their Championship winning season. Fairly sure their owner took them over when still in League 1. 

[captainchris]

On 27/09/2021 at 16:07, DT said:

Agreed. But suspect we’re so skint that we can’t afford his and his staff’s payoff. It needs to be done soon or it’s curtains. 

In that case give Ralph chief bib monitor status for a while…… 

[Teddeer]

8 hours ago, MAY-Z said:

I don’t think you understand at all what I was getting at. I am not blaming the attackers at all.

I know it was a long ball from the keeper, that it my point, it was a long quick ball upfield played before a defence could get set. We are not allowed to play long quick balls, we have to build up very slowly allowing opposition defences to get into position.

ralph requires the same slow build up every time, and whilst he does that we will never be able to hit teams unaware or in space

It's obviously written in his play book.

[Toussaint]

17 hours ago, Singapore Saint said:

You haven't got Shane Long's stats in there, does he not score goals?

Yes, he does not

[Minsk]

6 hours ago, SalmonSi said:

I don't think we can look at it in this way. Better starts, better defence etc. Fact is we have i think 31 points from 36 games, RH still using players out of position. He brings on Long as a super sub. There are clearly many things he is doing wrong. As for EH, as I say, some managers just fit in at certain clubs. Plus I believe he would get the best out of a bad bunch. RH is looking for bang average players to play a style they will never be ready for. 

I'm really not bothered about the matches from last season. Just as the Ralph knockers don't care about out top 4 results of 2020.

Which players out of position have been a cause for concern, barring KWP not getting his crosses in against Wolves? He was excellent at LB against City.

Long was brought on to play a specific role in a change of formation. I would have rather seen Tella introduced, but hey-ho. 

There is a whole other thread about Ralph. Perhaps pop across to express all these other things you think he is doing wrong.

Don't think Ralph goes out to look for 'bang average' players. Maybe that's all we can afford? - Not that I would call Salisu or Livramento, or even Diallo, 'bang average' in any shape or form, and believe it is way too early to label any of our summer signings in such a manner after only a handful of difficult outings.

Out of curiosity, what makes you think EH would be a success here when he hasn't been at any other PL club? (Yes, he was good at getting Bournemouth promoted, largely thanks to Russian money - which he then wasted once up.)

[SNSUN]

So I've waited until now to write my thoughts on the game, partly because I had a busy weekend and partly because my daughter has been ill.

Anyway, result aside, I thoroughly enjoyed my first trip to SMS on Saturday in nearly 2 years and really hope to go again soon if shift work allows. I thought the band were decent and the pre-match buzz around the stadium meant that many thought we could win that.

 

Then the game started.

 

We weren't terrible, we were just dull and without ideas. We did have chances just not really clear cut ones. Wolves, like us, seemed to be low on confidence, but that moment of class from Jimenez and iffy defending from us was all that separated us from another draw. I'll stop short at ratings but I thought McCarthy, Salisu, Livramento, Romeu (for the most part, he started poorly) and Redmond did OK, and Armstrong was the better of the two strikers. The rest weren't up to much at all really. I think having 2 attackers at the moment is all wrong and we need an extra midfielder - I'd be tempted to start Romeu as a deep DM and have JWP and Diallo as box to box. We wanted to play wide but we don't have decent wide players. KWP and Livramento on the right would make so much more of a difference IMO.

 

Still overall I enjoyed the game and, though it looks worrying right now, especially with Chelsea ahead, I still think we'll have enough to avoid the drop. Goals are an issue but with Stu Armstrong to come back hopefully we can play someone shite and get a confidence boosting win.

[Nordic Saint]

On 28/09/2021 at 06:45, Saints foreva said:

They were bankrolled. 

Most successful clubs are, none more so than Man City and Chelsea. Bournemouth and Brighton's recent success has been a direct result of the money their owners have put in. Football clubs, like race horses, have always been rich men's play things. The idea that football clubs should be viewed as business investments is a relatively new one and it usually seems to result in unsuccessful football teams.

[Singapore Saint]

On 28/09/2021 at 16:39, cloggy saint said:

With a (very) few exceptions that's the best I've hoped for in 45 years of supporting 

I've been supporting Saints for 45 years too, since 1976! 

[cloggy saint]

I was very surprised to see Jimenez's goal get third place in GOTM, I mean it was just a hopeful punt forward followed by catastrophic defensive errors .....