Nathan Redmond - Opportunity lost?

[Professor]

Preferred over Che against West Ham but for me, he was the weak spot up front. Poor decision making and poor execution. Given the ball for a clear run into the Area he hesitated far too long, losing the ball. Having failed to shoot when he could, moments later he attempted a hopeless shot from a wide angle, instead of passing. 
My feeling is he won’t be in Ralph’s starting line next time. Not sure he should even be on the bench. 

Edited 13 September, 2021 by Professor

[Ldnsaint]

He wasn't up front... it was 4-1-4-1

[Saint Garrett]

Thought he did ok, he didn't play up front, he was more of a wide right, which he hasn't played much really. 

Think it took them all a bit of time to get used to the new formation, and therefore they all struggled a bit.  Djenepo was a livewire, but trips over his own feet, Elyounoussi did bugger all, and JWP looked a bit lost that far up the pitch tbh.   Was much better once he went deeper and Diallo played further up.

Certainly don't think Redmond deserves being singled out every week by certain members of our fanbase.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Redmond's best position is wide on the left, drifting inside where he can either play in the overlapping full back or attacking players through the centre.  He played that role against Newcastle and was excellent.  It should be a straight contest between him and Djenepo on the left and Armstrong and Moi on the right (with Tella as a versatile option).

[Saint Garrett]

34 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Redmond's best position is wide on the left, drifting inside where he can either play in the overlapping full back or attacking players through the centre.  He played that role against Newcastle and was excellent.  It should be a straight contest between him and Djenepo on the left and Armstrong and Moi on the right (with Tella as a versatile option).

Yup I agree, and Walcott to flip in and out off the back of form.

If we want the slightly more unpredictable player then Djenepo, if we want the more reliable option, but more predictable, it's got to be Redmond.

[Charlie Wayman]

We have surely seen the best and worst of Redmond over the years. Why should we expect anything different to what we have seen and endured over the seasons.

In my opinion he has never been sufficiently professional to have knuckled down and worked really hard on correcting his weaknesses. If only he had the dedication and determination of a Romeu or a JWP for example he could have been a half decent player but he doesn't and he isn't. 

He is what he is and never will be consistent enough to warrant and hold down a permanent place in the starting XI. 

[Bob76]

Sorry but Redmond is reliable but over the years he has been here it is reliably poor. No way should he start, bench player at best.

[ErwinK1961]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

Thought he did ok, he didn't play up front, he was more of a wide right, which he hasn't played much really. 

Think it took them all a bit of time to get used to the new formation, and therefore they all struggled a bit.  Djenepo was a livewire, but trips over his own feet, Elyounoussi did bugger all, and JWP looked a bit lost that far up the pitch tbh.   Was much better once he went deeper and Diallo played further up.

Certainly don't think Redmond deserves being singled out every week by certain members of our fanbase.

I think people's issue with Redmond in particular (or at least mine), is he clearly has it in him to be better but all too often his decision making lets him down. The phase of play on Saturday summed him up - Armstrong played him in, he need to be direct, run towards goals then have a shot. Instead, he cut inside, was too negative, dallied and wasted the chance. He then got the ball back and rather than crossing to the 2/3 men in the box, blasted a pathetic shot into the stands. So he passed when he should have shot, then shot when he should have passed. 

Agree that it's unfair he cops more stick than others - Djenepo and Moi are equally as poor and aren't good enough. Djenepo seems to get credit because he works hard and does his defensive duties - but at the end of a day, he's an attacking player that offers us next to nothing going forward. 1 goal in 45 games (with minimal assists) is rubbish. 

[Saint_clark]

That chance he fucked on Saturday was criminal. All it required was for him to run diagonally across the last man - who then had to either let him go or bring him down and get a red/give away a pen- and then he'd have had a shot on his favoured right foot. 

Or just run straight and chance a shot on his left. 

But what he actually did should never have been an option. 

For some reason he is still well regarded in the wider footballing community, so for me we should try and cash in (anything about £10million) and move on. 

[Tony F]

Where I sit in Itchen/Chapel corner there are a couple of people whose sole agenda for the entire match seems to be to slag off Redmond; its almost an obsession.  I am not sure what drives such vindictive, relentless negativity.  We've all got the message .....but they drone on and on.

Meanwhile on the pitch, taking Saturday as an example, it was galling to see Redmond waste the few chances he had, also the number of times he got the ball, and could have set up a quick, penetrative attack but, no, he passed back inside.  By failing to make an impact on the match he is feeding the terrace trolls.  

Where do we go from here?  That Right Mid spot seems to be a problem.  Clearly Walcott can play there....but I think we desperately need S Armstrong back

[Whitey Grandad]

He is both frustrating and annoyingsince there is obviously a talented and capable player in there somewhere it's just that it doesn't show itself very often. You'd think that he could be trained up to be a lethal addition to the tem but so far it's mainly disappointment.

[cloggy saint]

31 minutes ago, Tony F said:

Where I sit in Itchen/Chapel corner there are a couple of people whose sole agenda for the entire match seems to be to slag off Redmond; its almost an obsession.  I am not sure what drives such vindictive, relentless negativity.  We've all got the message .....but they drone on and on.

You have the misfortune to sit next to DT?

[thesaint sfc]

Redmond for me is Shane Long only faster. I'd be glad to see the back of both of them.

Wish we still had Tadic

[Convict Colony]

I'd like to see a breakdown of how far redmond runs towards his own goal v the opposition goal per match.

[Sheaf Saint]

25 minutes ago, thesaint sfc said:

Redmond for me is Shane Long only faster. I'd be glad to see the back of both of them.

Wish we still had Tadic

Don't agree with this at all. Long is a player with incredibly limited technical ability but decent enough pace in a straight line to cause defenders problems with his direct running at them.

Redmond is clearly talented, but even when he does decide to run at players he's not all that quick. It's just the fact that he dithers so much and always, without fail, wastes good attacking opportunities by delaying too long before choosing the wrong option anyway.

He's infuriating, because we know he can do it. When he set up Moi's goal against Newcastle, he showed what he can do by going past a defender and putting in a decent cross. 

If Redmond had the same eagerness to drive forward at defenders that Long has (or used to have), we'd have a proper player on our hands, and he probably would have been poached by one of the bigger clubs by now. 

[Whitey Grandad]

20 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

I'd like to see a breakdown of how far redmond runs towards his own goal v the opposition goal per match.

He starts almost on the centre line and what goes up must come down so just see where he is at the final whistle.

[S-Clarke]

I don't think there's much more than can be said about Redmond. He's just a very poor PL player. There's no coaching that's going to change that, he's just shit.

He wants too much time on the ball because he doesn't have the football brain to see things quick enough or make quick decisions.

He has some decent physical attributes, but nothing more than that.

We lost an opportunity to sell him. Could have got £2.5m for him and brought in Gray and had a million quad change. 

[the saint in winchester]

I'm not defending Redmond, but I recall when he had that two goal salvo against Bournemouth, he said he was very much a confidence player.

His confidence is clearly low at present, and having the fans back in the stadium barracking him is making him worse.

That the case for his defence m'lud. Having said that, he wouldn't be making my team selection on a weekly basis.

[OldNick]

The sad face of football forums. I suspect every club have the players that are always the hate is channelled at.

Watching the match thread you'd think he never does anything as peoples minds are poisoned. Romeau did a badly weighted backheel that apparently was Redmonds fault for not getting to. Watching it on playback he couldnt have got it, whilst it was said he should have anticipated that Romeau was going to do something that he has never done before and so be ready for it. Had he jumped in and not got the ball they would have been on the counter and of course he would have been wrong for that.

Personally I think he is an asset and had he have all the attributes that make him a special player we would be pouring bile on him as he had gone to another higher placed club. Any of our players who stay long term are average, the really good ones clear off.

[SFC Forever]

I am sorry but I do not see him as an asset. Some will disagree but I see no reason why Broja or Tella couldn't be used instead. Tella has pace to burn and Broja seems to have it all. I would also like to see Broja as a number 9.

[OldNick]

8 minutes ago, SFC Forever said:

I am sorry but I do not see him as an asset. Some will disagree but I see no reason why Broja or Tella couldn't be used instead. Tella has pace to burn and Broja seems to have it all. I would also like to see Broja as a number 9.

They play different positions! Perhaps Tella could but not Broja

[SFC Forever]

Playing Broja in a wide position could give both him and us different options. It almost certainly give us more goal-scoring opportunities. Every game our wide players cut inside and sometimes are already in the centre.  Talented players with drive are often used in positions that they haven't played regularly or at all.

[Mr Nimbus]

The two things that frustrate me the most with him are, constantly cutting inside and how often he gives the ball away.

Opposition full backs must know what he is going to do as he seemingly does it so often.

I don't think we will see a coming of age, he is what he is. A lower PL/Championship squad player IMO.

[Saint86]

At this point, he should not be keeping players like Tella, Adams, Livramento/KWP etc out of the team. Even Djenpo should be above him.

There are times where Redmond can be very effective, but his standard is consistently that of a bottom 3rd player - and we have better on the bench,

[Jeremy Corbyn]

I think you sort of have to build a team around Redmond as he plays like a wide playmaker rather than a winger.  You players running off him, rather than him being the one making the runs.

[Badger]

38 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

I think you sort of have to build a team around Redmond as he plays like a wide playmaker rather than a winger.  You players running off him, rather than him being the one making the runs.

A new level of stupidity

Perhaps no surprise given your username (chosen with a view to simply wind up).

[Jeremy Corbyn]

5 minutes ago, Badger said:

A new level of stupidity

Perhaps no surprise given your username (chosen with a view to simply wind up).

What on earth are you talking about?

[Badger]

"Build a team round Redmond" - one of the most inconsistent players in the squad. No further comment required.

[Toussaint]

50 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

I think you sort of have to build a team around Redmond as he plays like a wide playmaker rather than a winger.  You players running off him, rather than him being the one making the runs.

He ain't Ray Wilkins or Frank Lampard Snr. 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

"Build a team round Redmond" - one of the most inconsistent players in the squad. No further comment required.

I didn't say we should build a team around him, I was saying that in order to get the most out of him then I think it needs to be based around his strengths.  Christ.

[Badger]

53 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

I think you sort of have to build a team around Redmond as he plays like a wide playmaker rather than a winger.  You players running off him, rather than him being the one making the runs.

 

1 minute ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

I didn't say we should build a team around him, I was saying that in order to get the most out of him then I think it needs to be based around his strengths.  Christ.

Looks pretty clear to me Jeremy, even allowing for the "sort of". 

 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Just now, Badger said:

 

Looks pretty clear to me Jeremy, even allowing for the "sort of". 

 

Right, well as explained I didn't mean that we should, I was saying what I think's required to get him playing well.  Not sure what your problem is.

[Toussaint]

7 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Right, well as explained I didn't mean that we should, I was saying what I think's required to get him playing well.  Not sure what your problem is.

...Head transplant, find some old footballer with a really good football brain, swap heads, job done! Can't believe no one else has thought of it?

[Hatch]

The only thing that is consistent about Redmond,   is his inconsistency

Edited 14 September, 2021 by Hatch

[sydney_saint]

About 6 months ago I really laid into Redmond's performances and showed that no other attacking player has been given more chances than him over the last five seasons. Despite all these chances, he's near the bottom for goals/assists out of all the attacking players used in that time (when taken into account he's played lots more).

After the Bournemouth game, people started raving about him and said he's a confidence player and to watch him get better. We are 6 months down the line and he is just as poor as ever.  His game hasn't progressed since he arrived and he's now just a squad blocker for other players, particularly younger players, who deserve their chance. 

[sydney_saint]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

 

Looks pretty clear to me Jeremy, even allowing for the "sort of". 

 

To be fair he's right. He said what a team would 'need' to do to get most out of Redmond. That's very different to say we should do it

[Alanh]

3 hours ago, SFC Forever said:

Playing Broja in a wide position could give both him and us different options. It almost certainly give us more goal-scoring opportunities. Every game our wide players cut inside and sometimes are already in the centre.  Talented players with drive are often used in positions that they haven't played regularly or at all.

Completely disagree that Redmond playing in his most regular wide left position could be easily interchanged with Broja in the same position.  Broja is clearly a big centre forward, not someone who will take on a full back or play the sort of throughballs into strikers in the box.  Redmond isn't the best but in our squad you would replace him with S Armstrong, Walcott or Tella before Broja.

 

To take it slightly off tangent, Ralph's big challenge in the next couple of months is finding out which combination of A Armstrong, Adams and Broja works best in attack when we play 4-2-2-2, and how to keep the defensive resiliance that we saw with the 4-1-4-1 formation on Saturday.

[cambsaint]

I consider the endless criticism of Redmond by some on this column to be both inappropriate, unhelpful and it must be very upsetting to the player himself hardly the best way to instill self confidence. 

I look at it this way, he is obviously given instructions by Ralph as how he wants him to play. Presumably if the manager considers his performance poor, or not as instructed he will either substitute him or not pick him. Many many years ago the fans were exactly the same with Frank Saul (possibly deserved) and John Sydenham  (definitely undeserved). I cannot understand why some Saints fans appear to need a whipping boy .I have never witnessed it to such an extent at any other club.

Clearly it is the manager's decision as to who plays and fans should direct their criticism to him.

If you support the team you should support the players. Clearly this dose not preclude rational considered criticism, but imo with Redmond some take it far further than this. 

PersonallyI think he's a reasonably sound squad member, certainly not outstanding but as good as his equivalents in the several of the other teams in the bottom half of the Prem, but I just wish he he could score goals, it must be a matter of confidence that he nearly always misses.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

22 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think there's much more than can be said about Redmond. He's just a very poor PL player. There's no coaching that's going to change that, he's just shit.

He wants too much time on the ball because he doesn't have the football brain to see things quick enough or make quick decisions.

He has some decent physical attributes, but nothing more than that.

We lost an opportunity to sell him. Could have got £2.5m for him and brought in Gray and had a million quad change. 

Why would Gray choose us over Everton?

I agree though that there not much left to say about Redmond. He does have some ability but seems unlikely to ever fulfill it

[John Boy Saint]

I think the big problem is we have seen what he is capable of in the time he has been with us, trouble is most of real Nathan Redmond is in his past. 
“The Pep talk” was probably on the money when he said that Redmond tore them apart in the previous season, we get snapshots of what he can do, now almost it’s as if he doesn’t believe in himself that he can do it - The amount of times we have all seen him race up to the box only to be greeted by a couple of bigger boys and you can see the steam coming out of his ears as he says to himself “errr” “what do I do now?”. 
Saturday that dilly dallying in the box was beyond belief. What was nearly as  criminal was one of his runs to nowhere across the pitch outside the box, Mo was stood in a gaping gap between the WH back line pointing to the spot he should have played the ball to for him to be in on, blinkered he just carried on to have a look at the cement mixers over the road. 
You need decisive play around the box, I would imagine most defences are comfortable with the ball at his feet approaching them and our players. Trying to guess when he is going to play it.

Its not good that many of us knock him but when many of us can read him like a book it’s hard to be enthused when his name appears on the team sheet.

[Wade Garrett]

Garbage, a defender’s dream.

[pimpin4rizeal]

On 13/09/2021 at 15:27, thesaint sfc said:

Redmond for me is Shane Long only faster. I'd be glad to see the back of both of them.

Wish we still had Tadic

I get the comparison with long actually ,Redmond is kind of the winger version of long both have this uncanny knack of making a dogs dinner of what ever good chances or positions they find themselves in.

the chance where Redmond was put through was him in a nutshell makes the usual taking to many touches mistake finds himself in trouble and completely messes things up then has his default annoying look of shock and exasperation on his face.

i actually really can’t stand this player,

even those who say he is inconsistent are wrong you know exactly what your gonna get with him every game-him making things as hard as possible through stupidity and slow thinking and stupid face expressions after he does that 🤬

[HnycS]

Posters who defend Nathan Redmond are in the "Not even wrong" category, we will never know if his PL career stalled out because too many mangers gave him incorrect playing instructions and coaching, or he doesn't have the skills and talent to make it at the PL level? Either way it would probably be best if himself and the club look for a way of pulling him out of this before his confidence is completely and permanently shot. 

Think Ralph H maybe of the same opinion, seems to have experimented with him in all kinds of roles in the team, none of which have really worked, he seems resigned to have him in the team, his tracking back and tackling are not as bad as other parts of his game and he has few other better options.

So here are my suggestions;

1. Keep him out of the PL team, let him rip-up lower league teams in the Cup, them send him on loan at Xmas for a roll of the dice and hope he comes back with his confidence rebuilt.
2. Buy him the Ronaldo DVD set and tell him to follow the instructions on how to build a career with confidence.
3. Engage Andros Townsend's mum to compile a Redmond DVD (wouldn't take that long for sure).

Any other proactive suggestions for unlocking his talent?

Edited 16 September, 2021 by HnycS
Grammar

[Saint Martini]

My god he is frustrating. He has the technicals skills to succeed and he has the physical attributes to succeed but his decision making is just so poor.

Jenas pointed out two situations on MOTD where he could have easily created a big chance but he makes the wrong choice when the right one is soo obvious.

 

Dribbling inside when you have a 4-on-2 counter?!

Trying the cutback when only Adams is there being marked by two defenders and Armstrong is free as a bird at the far post.

 

It's like he always wants to do something extra when he is at his best when he plays simple and to add to that he likes to slow the play down when he is most dangerous when he comes at the defence with speed. 

[Saint Garrett]

Thought he had a great game yesterday personally. 

[Tom & Gerry]

Player of the season 2 years ago  but apparently he's never been any good. Do people have short memories are you the only ones that didn't vote for him?

[goodymatt]

He does so many things really well, just that final decision or hesitation that scuppers those big opportunities  at the moment and this was a problem last season too.

When he was our player of the season he was much more decisive and had that confidence in his decisions. He does seem to show this against lower league opposition in cup games.

Just wish he could get that confidence back at the top level. Only thing I know for sure is fans getting in his back is not the solution to get him there. Appreciate he’s had a lot of opportunities to reach that consistent level by now. 

In the context of yesterday’s game, he may have not picked the right pass on those few occasions but his general play and work against the ball was excellent.

[Tom & Gerry]

9 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

He does so many things really well, just that final decision or hesitation that scuppers those big opportunities  at the moment and this was a problem last season too.

When he was our player of the season he was much more decisive and had that confidence in his decisions. He does seem to show this against lower league opposition in cup games.

Just wish he could get that confidence back at the top level. Only thing I know for sure is fans getting in his back is not the solution to get him there. Appreciate he’s had a lot of opportunities to reach that consistent level by now. 

In the context of yesterday’s game, he may have not picked the right pass on those few occasions but his general play and work against the ball was excellent.

I thought we played some great football yesterday and Redmond was part of it. Like all players he makes mistakes and when people get frustrated by that they are blind to the good things he does. He's frustrating in the final third like several of our players but that's the hardest part and the players trying to stop him are pretty good.

[OldNick]

On 19/09/2021 at 13:46, Saint Martini said:

 

Trying the cutback when only Adams is there being marked by two defenders and Armstrong is free as a bird at the far post.

 

It's like he always wants to do something extra when he is at his best when he plays simple and to add to that he likes to slow the play down when he is most dangerous when he comes at the defence with speed. 

if you watch the game again, he was in a similar position and tried to put the ball across the box but it was cut out, he tried the other option the 2nd time.

As for Jenas, they have to find somebody to pick apart and if you looked at AA's game you could have foumd 3 or 4 examples as well. Its TV they fill time

[Matthew Le God]