Man City 0-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Warriorsaint]

34 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

How on earth can that fat fuck Jon Moss think that’s not a penalty after looking at it again? Another one that shouldn’t be anywhere near a Premier League game. 

Saw it in real time. Knew it wasn’t a pen, Armstrong played for it. Our Crowd knew it at the time and knew it would be overturned.

However after VAR overturned it and we saw the replay  in the stadium we were stunned. In the replay it looked more of a pen than in real time.

On another note VAR in stadium is awful. Needs scrapping completely. I can live with ref mistakes,

VAR kills the fluidity and rhythm and flow of  the game.

It also adds 10 minutes injury time and you have no idea how long is left in the game.

Edited 18 September, 2021 by Warriorsaint

[Warriorsaint]

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

We're back to opposing teams/fans thinking they just played badly against us when actually we stifled them with our system 

Nonsense, City fans most generous fans you’ll find. They were glad to have a game. Fans that go to games are knowledgeable and most at that game gave Kudos to a team that had a gameplan and came to play.

40,000 City fans were supporting their team in Div 2 and we had idiots singing “ where were you when you were shit” 

They support their team through thick and thin. Much rather have them than that other lot in Salford.

[badgerx16]

MOTD analysis; definite penalty but not a red card for Walker. Jermaine Jenas said they thought that the ref was invited to the pitchside monitor to review and negate the red card, not the whole decision.

Edited 18 September, 2021 by badgerx16

[vectraman]

Fab performance Saints and an exceptional point. Well played, tactically spot on Ralph, let’s get our first win now against Wolves next week. Come on Saints 😀

[niceandfriendly]

Not sure about you but I do love a good tackle on a defender who's running behind me when I'm through on goal. That's what I like about AA, he's very unselfish. Not always thinking to shoot.

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, M271 said:

I don't know how BBC work out the players scores, seems flawed though as the scores given doesn't coincide with the views on here from people who saw the match. They have Romeu as 6th best for Saints as an example.

 

My 500th post, it's only taken me 12 and a half years to get there!!

It takes Trousers 12 and a half days to achieve that.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

2 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

We're back to opposing teams/fans thinking they just played badly against us when actually we stifled them with our system 

Have you read what he said? "You were excellent". 

[Turkish]

19 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

MOTD analysis; definite penalty but not a red card for Walker. Jermaine Jenas said they thought that the ref was invited to the pitchside monitor to review and negate the red card, not the whole decision.

That’s how I saw it. Definite pen not a red. But as usual a decision against a big club might impact the premier league brand so can’t have it

[suewhistle]

I've been entertaining since seeing a City goal on a dodgy thread and saying a very loud "shit" and then having to dash to see to my guest. Since saw that we drew and just got the chance to comment. Did Walker touch the ball for the disallowed penalty? Anyway, well done Saints for a cracking performance, and not conceding 5 goals like the previous 3 teams at City. 

To the pre-game commenters on here.. Phthtttphttt!!!

 

[Patrick Bateman]

7 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

I've been entertaining since seeing a City goal on a dodgy thread and saying a very loud "shit" and then having to dash to see to my guest. Since saw that we drew and just got the chance to comment. Did Walker touch the ball for the disallowed penalty? Anyway, well done Saints for a cracking performance, and not conceding 5 goals like the previous 3 teams at City. 

To the pre-game commenters on here.. Phthtttphttt!!!

 

No. Walker didn't touch the ball, at all.

The way I (and many others I think) saw it was he (Moss) was checking whether it was a red card offence, then overturned the whole f**king decision. It was stonewall penalty. Little push, then a complete clatter and no ball touched. 

[trousers]

39 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

It takes Trousers 12 and a half days to achieve that.

Since November 2006, I've posted 8.84 times per day on average, ergo it would take 56.56 days for me to amass 500 posts. (and, yes, I was indeed sad enough to spend the last 7 minutes working that out )

Edited 18 September, 2021 by trousers

[saint lard]

If Ings was playing for us today…..we win. 

Edited 18 September, 2021 by saint lard

[Red]

4 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

Just back from the game, Fantastic performance. Some really good players on show. Did not look like hundreds of millions of pounds between the teams.

Really good down the wings but seeing Armstrong in the flesh is disappointing. Id rather have Brett Ormerod to be honest.

Broja is a unit and when he came on you could tell he is a step up. If he scores goals he’s a £50 million striker.

The real reason City didn’t win is they don’t have a Striker. Lots of side to side when they get into the box but they didn’t have it. They miss Aguero badly.

Thought Stephens looked good and gives a bit to the oppo team. Just the kind of disrespect our players need.

Have to say Ralph is the right man for the job. Got the  team selection just right. Redmond gets a lot of stick but up close you could see his experience and you could tell he is playing the way the manager wants. A really well drilled performance and a lot of compliments from city fans on the way back.

Got fucked off with a bunch of our retarded fans who thought it was more fun to goad opposing fans than watch the game and support the team. Some of the stuff they came out with was embarrassing.

Also in the dying minutes some really good shithousery and time wasting and some of our fans got on the teams back. 
 

All in all, really good performance and a draw a fair result.

shoutout to the City stewards and staff. Really chilled people and a good laugh. Balti Pie good , not as good as Burnley’s but pretty good anyway and at £4.50 it needed to be.

 

Thanks for the report. Not sure I agree with some of it though but it's an opinion forum so my thoughts:

Firstly Redmond - I think he's ok/average, not great but not shite either. You probably didn't get a chance to see the MOTD analysis on him (and others) yet but it summed up exactly what is lacking with Redders - he doesn't have the vision when in good positions to make the incisive pass where a player might/should end up when the pass arrives. Hard to explain in words but the BBC with their tech did it really well. It's kind of football chess - think one or two steps ahead. Don't blame Redders for this - it's just not in his locker and at this stage he will never get/learn it. Other than that he tries hard, has reasonable pace, can dribble at times (not sure why he doesn't more often? Maybe instructed by Ralph not to in case we lose possession - Ralph does seen obsessed by this), and his grin/stupid smile is just frustration at not having achieved what he was trying.

Ralph - really not sure with him being the right man. He has been manager nearly 3 years now which is fairly long in the PL these days and I'm not convinced he knows how to succeed in the PL. He's gone from wanting a small squad to large, from different formations, to not knowing his best 11, taking instant dislikes to certain players etc. Not picking Lyanco as he can't speak English allegedly (Leeds manager still can't after 3 years doesn't seem to be an issue). Being stubborn against all other evidence. Again I think he's an average manager who doesn't get the PL and is in awe of some of his hero's (crying when beating Klopp was embarrassing enough but he is always drooling over Pep etc. as well). He was unemployed when we appointed him and in reality hadn't achieved much before that. I don't want him sacked but he does need to step up.

Final part - agree, great performance and result and if not for the great injustice would have been eve better - for me the greatest travesty was to over turn a decision already given with a clear and obvious error.

Anyway onwards and upwards and hope we get our first win next week.

[GarrettIvo]

Back to back clean sheets for the first time since December-January.

 

[Maya's Dad]

10 hours ago, VictiAbNonem said:

Chris Bevan

Manchester City 0-0 Southampton: Shot-shy Man City fortunate to draw with Saints - BBC Sport

the guardian is more generous:

"Jonathan Moss gave a penalty and showed Walker a red card. VAR ordered him to the monitor, and the referee decided the right-back crashed into Armstrong as the latter wrapped a leg around the ball, so overturned his decisions. If Moss adjudged this a clear and obvious error, the official may wish to consult a dictionary to reacquaint himself with the terms’ definitions."

both panels from motd and sss unanimous that it was a stonewall pen, the check perhaps was to rescind the red but never should have affected the pen

[JibMcdo]

6 hours ago, Red said:

Ralph - really not sure with him being the right man. He has been manager nearly 3 years now which is fairly long in the PL these days and I'm not convinced he knows how to succeed in the PL. He's gone from wanting a small squad to large, from different formations, to not knowing his best 11, taking instant dislikes to certain players etc. Not picking Lyanco as he can't speak English allegedly (Leeds manager still can't after 3 years doesn't seem to be an issue). Being stubborn against all other evidence. Again I think he's an average manager who doesn't get the PL and is in awe of some of his hero's (crying when beating Klopp was embarrassing enough but he is always drooling over Pep etc. as well). He was unemployed when we appointed him and in reality hadn't achieved much before that. I don't want him sacked but he does need to step up.

Jesus Christ. Deserves a permanent ban. 

[Shroppie]

7 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

No. Walker didn't touch the ball, at all.

The way I (and many others I think) saw it was he (Moss) was checking whether it was a red card offence, then overturned the whole f**king decision. It was stonewall penalty. Little push, then a complete clatter and no ball touched. 

This sounds feasible. The red card decision was probably wrong, as the rules say it's only red for denial of goal scoring opportunity if there is no attempt to play the ball in the penalty area (although, bizarrely, outside the box it's red anyway it it's denial of goal scoring opportunity). So the question was did he make any attempt to get the ball, and I'd accept that he did.

But still a clear foul and the pen should never have been reviewed. Why didn't VAR make that clear to Moss?

[Give it to Ron]

6 hours ago, saint lard said:

If Ings was playing for us today…..we win. 

He would have missed it through injury 

[Toussaint]

6 hours ago, saint lard said:

If Ings was playing for us today…..we win. 

I thought that, we aren’t creating a lot, and the strikers we have have a low conversion rate, whereas Ings could score out of very little. 

[Billy the Kidd]

54 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

This sounds feasible. The red card decision was probably wrong, as the rules say it's only red for denial of goal scoring opportunity if there is no attempt to play the ball in the penalty area (although, bizarrely, outside the box it's red anyway it it's denial of goal scoring opportunity). So the question was did he make any attempt to get the ball, and I'd accept that he did.

But still a clear foul and the pen should never have been reviewed. Why didn't VAR make that clear to Moss?

I think the even weirder thing is they gave the foul against Armstrong. I cant really get my head around anyh of it, other than it probably wasnt a red.

[Sheaf Saint]

Interesting that even the MOTD analysts concluded that Redmond is rubbish at choosing the right option when he gets in or near the box. They highlighted a couple of moments where he wasted a good attack which, on repeat viewing, look even worse than they did at the time.

If it's a confidence issue then he really needs to engage with a sports psychologist.

[david in sweden]

11 hours ago, redder freak said:

Stonewall penalty from the highlights. Walker nowhere near the ball. Pure body check on top of Armstrong. If that had been Salisu on Sterling we all know how it would have gone. But money talks. They bought that draw.

and Jon Moss also thought about ......whether he'd still be able to find his car to drive home after the match !

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

I thought that, we aren’t creating a lot, and the strikers we have have a low conversion rate, whereas Ings could score out of very little. 

He can, but he was never going to stay at the club so it's pretty irrelevant. Plus the person who replaced Ings won a penalty which might have led to 3 points if it wasn't for Jon Moss's lunacy.

Maybe we'd have won if Stuart Armstrong was fit because he's our best attacking midfielder.

[OldNick]

6 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Interesting that even the MOTD analysts concluded that Redmond is rubbish at choosing the right option when he gets in or near the box. They highlighted a couple of moments where he wasted a good attack which, on repeat viewing, look even worse than they did at the time.

If it's a confidence issue then he really needs to engage with a sports psychologist.

I watched that twice, the first occasion he has 2 options he went for the player closest to him, and the ball across the box would have to be very precise the second! he was running in the opposite direction when AA made his run and so would have had to do a back heel or the like. I suspect AA run was to make space as it did. Had they done a similar piece on any of the City forwards they could no doubt find bits where they should have made a btter or perfect pass.

Anyway its like talking to a brick wall he will never win people over. As I have said previously had he have all the skills he would have gone elsewhere and we would be spitting bile for being disloyal

[OldNick]

Another thing we get a nil nil away at City and there are still moans lol. I doubt many expected anything, I did tell a another Saints fan I felt we would get something today, I just had the feeling

[The Cat]

Looking at their forum, a lot giving us praise. One said Romeu and Ward Prowse bossed the midfield, loads saying we easily deserved the point and probably more.

"The drive and desire of Southampton is something we could learn from"

"Saints were impressive"

"Saints were brilliant and comfortable, deserved 3 points"

"Whole team was poor"

"We were lucky to get nil"

Quotes like these show just how well organised we were which is obviously down to the preparation in training and the players on the pitch carrying out those instructions.

Some of their fans think Sterling is shit. Some are moaning about the manager.

And that's just from the first 20 pages of 97. If there's one downside to becoming one of the best teams in the world it's having to trawl through nearly 100 pages of a post match thread after every game.

[Shroppie]

29 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I watched that twice, the first occasion he has 2 options he went for the player closest to him, and the ball across the box would have to be very precise the second! he was running in the opposite direction when AA made his run and so would have had to do a back heel or the like. I suspect AA run was to make space as it did. Had they done a similar piece on any of the City forwards they could no doubt find bits where they should have made a btter or perfect pass.

Anyway its like talking to a brick wall he will never win people over. As I have said previously had he have all the skills he would have gone elsewhere and we would be spitting bile for being disloyal

Shows how much we miss Stuart Armstrong. He runs directly and can shoot, but also is intelligent and good at seeing a pass. Even Walcott has better vision than Redmond.

[Papa_Waigo1]

Rescinding the pen decision so hard to understand. 'Clear and obvious' it wasn't! Communication between VAR ref and on field ref ought to be public, like in rugby. Transparency would improve decision making.

[Totton Saint]

11 hours ago, Saint_lambden said:

How on earth can that fat fuck Jon Moss think that’s not a penalty after looking at it again? Another one that shouldn’t be anywhere near a Premier League game. 

Agreed. When did tackling from behind stop being a foul?  The refs should let us know.  Moss should do the decent thing and resign or retire

[Sheaf Saint]

34 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

Agreed. When did tackling from behind stop being a foul?  The refs should let us know.  Moss should do the decent thing and resign or retire

At the very least he should be hauled in front of the PGMOL and made to explain the thought process behind his decision, because it appears that he didn't apply the rule about 'clear and obvious error' correctly.

Edited 19 September, 2021 by Sheaf Saint

[Chapel End]

23 minutes ago, Papa_Waigo1 said:

Rescinding the pen decision so hard to understand. 'Clear and obvious' it wasn't! Communication between VAR ref and on field ref ought to be public, like in rugby. Transparency would improve decision making.

The only thing  "clear and obvious " was it shouldn't have been overturned 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Really pleased with the result and the performance. If given that result and the start would have accepted it with both hands. Although counts for nothing if we don't beat Wolves.

[Whitey Grandad]

33 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

The only thing  "clear and obvious " was it shouldn't have been overturned 

Since it was the referee himself who changed his mind does it have to be a clear and obvious error?

[Sheaf Saint]

35 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Since it was the referee himself who changed his mind does it have to be a clear and obvious error?

Well yes, because he has to be certain that his original call was wrong.

[Matthew Le God]

The footage Jonathan Moss saw on the pitch-side monitor was just from one angle over and over on a loop. There was an even more damming angle they chose not to show him!

Edited 19 September, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Why do they have the thing of making the ref watch it on a monitor? It delays the game even more and puts extra pressure on the ref

[Forester]

10 hours ago, Red said:

Thanks for the report. Not sure I agree with some of it though but it's an opinion forum so my thoughts:

Firstly Redmond - I think he's ok/average, not great but not shite either. You probably didn't get a chance to see the MOTD analysis on him (and others) yet but it summed up exactly what is lacking with Redders - he doesn't have the vision when in good positions to make the incisive pass where a player might/should end up when the pass arrives. Hard to explain in words but the BBC with their tech did it really well. It's kind of football chess - think one or two steps ahead. Don't blame Redders for this - it's just not in his locker and at this stage he will never get/learn it. Other than that he tries hard, has reasonable pace, can dribble at times (not sure why he doesn't more often? Maybe instructed by Ralph not to in case we lose possession - Ralph does seen obsessed by this), and his grin/stupid smile is just frustration at not having achieved what he was trying.

Ralph - really not sure with him being the right man. He has been manager nearly 3 years now which is fairly long in the PL these days and I'm not convinced he knows how to succeed in the PL. He's gone from wanting a small squad to large, from different formations, to not knowing his best 11, taking instant dislikes to certain players etc. Not picking Lyanco as he can't speak English allegedly (Leeds manager still can't after 3 years doesn't seem to be an issue). Being stubborn against all other evidence. Again I think he's an average manager who doesn't get the PL and is in awe of some of his hero's (crying when beating Klopp was embarrassing enough but he is always drooling over Pep etc. as well). He was unemployed when we appointed him and in reality hadn't achieved much before that. I don't want him sacked but he does need to step up.

Final part - agree, great performance and result and if not for the great injustice would have been eve better - for me the greatest travesty was to over turn a decision already given with a clear and obvious error.

Anyway onwards and upwards and hope we get our first win next week.

Agree with Redmond analysis, but can’t agree with Ralph comments.  I would say he has come on leaps and bounds tactically this season, and every one of our points accumulated so far was a defeat in corresponding fixture last season.  A strange day to call him into question

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

The footage Moss saw on the monitor was just from one angle over and over on a loop. There was an even more damming angle they chose not to show him.

They only ever seem to show one angle, the one that is most likely to overturn the decision. How many time has a ref reviewed something and stuck with the original conclusion ?

[Matthew Le God]

I suspect they were covering up the red card double jeopardy fuck up. It probably should have been a penalty, but no red card. Jonathan Moss probably didn't want to be in the position of removing the red card but still giving the penalty. If only we could hear the conversation between the VAR and ref!

[Charlie Wayman]

3 hours ago, Toussaint said:

I thought that, we aren’t creating a lot, and the strikers we have have a low conversion rate, whereas Ings could score out of very little. 

Not doing much for Villa is he. Seemed pretty anonymous yesterday in highlight clips

[John Boy Saint]

13 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I suspect they were covering up the red card double jeopardy fuck up. It probably should have been a penalty, but no red card. Jonathan Moss probably didn't want to be in the position of removing the red card but still giving the penalty. If only we could hear the conversation between the VAR and ref!

Don’t worry Billy Shite has a reliable source for the VAR transcripts - we should see it in the next couple of days when he submits his post match report 😜

[rallyboy]

A neutral observer could even suggest there was no great reason for reviewing the red card  - did that really look like a genuine attempt to play the ball?

It had all the hallmarks of there's a player through on the keeper, I'll desperately lunge at him from behind just to prevent a goal and take my chances with the ref.

I wasn't especially impressed with Moss making time to discuss it with the already-dismissed Walker before he went to the monitor either.

 

[Shroppie]

8 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

I wasn't especially impressed with Moss making time to discuss it with the already-dismissed Walker before he went to the monitor either.

Very much agree with this. Ref should have waved away all the players.

[S-Clarke]

I know there's a lot of chatter about Man City being 'shit', and yes, they were slightly below par - otherwise we wouldn't have stood a chance, but....we contributed to the fact they were below par and made sure that they had no easy game to coast through.

Pressure, tenacity, always a threat on the break so they couldn't relax etc. This wasn't a backs to the wall 0-0 by any stretch.

We've shown a different side to ourselves against West Ham, United and City - balls and steal to our game for a change. I think we're benefiting from it being early season and we're still fairly fresh and have full weeks to train etc, but it's still a refreshing approach.

We do need a win soon though, otherwise psychologically that hangs over you and it can become difficult to shake - as Sheff U found last year. We're definitely competitive though, a match of any team, I'm just slightly nervous that we don't seem to be showing the quality or ability to actually win these games.

Edited 19 September, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Chez]

42 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

They only ever seem to show one angle, the one that is most likely to overturn the decision. How many time has a ref reviewed something and stuck with the original conclusion ?

as soon as the ref is asked to review he knows that a colleague thinks he has made an error, so natural inclination is to change the decision. The VAR then uses one angle to reinforce their difference in opinion. Is basically bollocks. VAR always has been. 

[Chez]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I know there's a lot of chatter about Man City being 'shit', and yes, they were slightly below par - otherwise we wouldn't have stood a chance, but....we contributed to the fact they were below par and made sure that they had no easy game to coast through.

Pressure, tenacity, always a threat on the break so they couldn't relax etc. This wasn't a backs to the wall 0-0 by any stretch.

We've shown a different side to ourselves against West Ham, United and City - balls and steal to our game for a change. I think we're benefiting from it being early season and we're still fairly fresh and have full weeks to train etc, but it's still a refreshing approach.

We do need a win soon though, otherwise psychologically that hangs over you and it can become difficult to shake - as Sheff U found last year. We're definitely competitive though, a match of any team, I'm just slightly nervous that we don't seem to be showing the quality or ability to actually win these games.

lose that genuine goal scoring quality and you are left with a workmanlike side. Badly need Armstrong to score a few from range like he showed last season and Ings regularly did.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Chez said:

as soon as the ref is asked to review he knows that a colleague thinks he has made an error, so natural inclination is to change the decision. The VAR then uses one angle to reinforce their difference in opinion. Is basically bollocks. VAR always has been. 

VAR isn't bollocks as a technology, it's those who interpret and utilise the technology that are bollocks.

The Euro's showed it positively, and so does the UCL to some degree. You just get on with games at those levels, things are checked, given, not given...no big debate about it. But the ref's in this country who are put in charge of the technology are beyond inept. They are not fit for the job in any way, it needs a change up - different people on VAR at the very least.

[austsaint]

12 hours ago, vectraman said:

Fab performance Saints and an exceptional point. Well played, tactically spot on Ralph, let’s get our first win now against Wolves next week. Come on Saints 😀

It was a super performance, and well deserving of the point, if not all three - still can't see why the penalty was disallowed; red card overturned, yes.  Ralph did well tactically - a couple of question marks though - not starting Salisu surprised me; though Stephens and Bednarek did well, Salisu deserved to hold his place and was excellent after replacing JS.    Thought Romeu was outstanding - strong in the tackle; composed on the ball,  deft range of passing and put his body on the line.   Walker-Peters showed why he should be starting most games, adapted to the unfamiliar LB and did well on Jesus, Grealish and Sterling at different times.   Can't understand the criticism of Armstrong A. - he ran hard all day; has a nice first touch, tracked back in defence, linked up well and goals are certain to come.   I'm starting to see why Elynoussi is being given his chance - he has improved and looks more confident.

Perhaps someone can tell me why Ralph decided to employ an attacking formation today (and all credit to him) with two up front against the best team in the Country on their home patch in contrast to the more defensive set up against the Hammers last week at St Marys?  

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

lose that genuine goal scoring quality and you are left with a workmanlike side. Badly need Armstrong to score a few from range like he showed last season and Ings regularly did.

Without doubt, that's my only fear with our start. We look competitive but we look so short up front and in the attacking third in general, moussa, redmond, adams etc.

Armstrong makes the right runs, his movement is good and sharp but I've not seen anything in his game 'yet' to suggest he will hit anywhere near Ings totals at this level. He doesn't seem capable of getting a goal out of nothing like Ings was. He's unfortunate to not have any time to adapt either, it's pretty much sink or swim for him as he was our big striker signing.

Would expect to see a bit more of Broja as we progress through the season though. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Walkers reaction does it for me. I know the refs can’t go on players reactions but he clearly thought he’d given away a penalty, it was only when the red card was shown that he got upset with that decision. The clear course of action was penalty & a yellow card, with the modern ruling on double jeopardy the red card was a horrendous decision. 
 

Id still have taken 1-1 even against 10 men. Against most sides 1-0 and playing 10 men you’d expect to win, but city fired up with a sense of injustice, and nothing to lose are fucking dangerous, even with 10.