Saints 0-0 West Ham - Match Thread

[Matthew Le God]

52 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

I had a ST there for nearly 20 years but didn't renew this season, mainly because of the vaccine passport nonsense. 

So you didn't renew for a daft reason and now that daft reason is not even going to happen...!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58535258

Edited 12 September, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Minsk]

1 hour ago, captainchris said:

This is very true. It does bring into sharp focus our poor recruiting and or coaching of our youth teams not to say also the first team where certain players are crying out to be coached well but obviously are not being.

What a load of twaddle. It is quite obvious to anyone with any idea of football how many players have improved under Ralph and his team's coaching. 

And you do realise the huge gulf in finances between ourselves and Chelsea, especially in regard to the youth systems?

[LuckyNumber7]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

So you didn't renew for a daft reason and now that daft reason is not even going to happen...!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58535258

Firstly I said main reason, not the only one. Second how is it daft if I literally am banned from getting in? At the time of renewals it seemed almost certain passports would be required. Even if the government don't implement them the PL likely will anyway.

As I said, I'm not even missing it much anyway, the whole matchday experience at Saints has become pretty rubbish.

[stknowle]

13 hours ago, Verbal Kint said:

I think the opposite. This is one of the weakest squads quality wise I can remember us having in the PL and Ralph set us up accordingly - protect the fragile CBs and be quite defensive.

Djenepo, Redmond, Elyounoussi, A. Armstrong is a championship level front 4 and that's what Ralph is dealing with. All 4 were terrible, as was JWP. 

It was an awful game until Broja came on and livened it up a bit. He looks very useful.

It will be a long season

This contains some valid points but - Jesus - a tad negative no? I thought there was plenty on show to be positive about. We obviously aren't going to tear up the league but I think we'll be fine.

Edited 12 September, 2021 by stknowle

[Matthew Le God]

26 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Firstly I said main reason, not the only one. Second how is it daft if I 1) literally am banned from getting in? At the time of renewals it seemed 2) almost certain passports would be required. Even if the government don't implement them the PL likely will anyway.

1) Why would you have been 'literally banned'? 

2) How did you determined the certainty when it was just a suggestion and a long way from being actual policy?

 

Edited 12 September, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Billy the Kidd]

[LiberalCommunist]

How did we not win that? 

Some green shoots are sprouting. Players coming in and taking the chance.

Even Ralphs stubborn nature can't hold them back.

Redmond getting benched. Roll on the next game. 

[LuckyNumber7]

5 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) Why would you have been 'literally banned'? 

2) How did you determined the certainty when it was just a suggestion and a long way from being actual policy?

 

I know you love to be pedantic but is it really that difficult to understand?

I haven't had and won't be having the jabs, so with vaccine passports I would not be allowed into the stadium.

Up until today it has looked very likely passports would be implemented, and still might be by clubs/the PL even if not by government. Therefor I decided not to renew rather than waste hundreds of pounds on something I probably wouldn't be able to use. There were other reasons too but that was the biggest one.

That's my three posts so if you still don't get it I can't help. Have a good evening.

[stknowle]

9 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I personally thought we looked better when Diallo played that attacking role, we had more mobility straight away. We did play quite a low block and a compact team, that probably made it harder for the likes of Armstrong or Moi to really stand out. West Ham themselves are a solid outfit too.

However I'd say that Redmond, with his pace - and Moussa - need to be our outlets in that kind of tactical setup, that is what they were there for. Redmond is just Redmond though, that chance summed him up - just f***ing hit it! I knew as soon as he took that extra touch it was done. That's him in a nutshell, he will never, ever change and it's infuriating to watch. He just wants too much time, he looks better in lower league games as he gets more time...but you don't get that at his level.

I'd like to have seen Tella to be honest, he commits and attacks with much more purpose than Redmond does - he's not afraid to have a crack for a start.

Moussa works hard and is likeable for sure, does a good job defensively for the team - but where we need him he just doesn't produce. All legs, no action.

Thing is he went through a period of being good and hitting it early. That goal against Burnley for example. WTF he hasn't pushed on who knows but he hasn't and like you say never will. He's a top championship level player stealing a living in the Prem.

[SaintSteve]

8 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

A dour and unimaginative performance from Saints contributed to a scrappy and in most part utterly forgettable match with few highlights and little genuine excitement. If this is what it takes to keep clean sheets then we are in for a long, boring and miserable season.

Salisu was our one player worthy of the MotM tag while McCarthy showed improvement with a couple of good reaction saves and increased aerial authority in his 6 yard box. Stephens was reliable and solid and did what he is paid to do. JWP & Romeu were way below par and Redmond frustrated as only he can. With a misfiring midfield we never really got going. Why Tella's pace wasn't used alongside Broja in the late stages of the game is beyond me, whet's the kid done to have fallen so far from grace? Leaving Armstrong to forage on his own for much of the match was a recipe for certain failure and we rarely offered a serious goal threat. 

It seems to me that we are not in good shape for next week's visit to City, caught between this new negative style of keeping a clean sheet at all cost, and our normal high-octane easy on the eye attacking play. Once again there were question marks over Ralph's team selection, while Tino seems to be his flavour of the month I am not convinced he is any better than Kyle W-P defensively or going forward. Certainly in the final third in positioning and decision making KWP is far superior. Ralph should not forget that Livramento is 18 and has a lot to learn.

Playing Djenepo, Elyonoussi and Redmond together seemed extravagant and short sighted especially with Theo side-lined, leaving us with no viable substitution options when they tired.

My sentiments exactly. It was turgid at best. Ralph’s team selection and formation beggars belief, the only result of which was to hope for a draw.

[Badger]

17 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Thing is he went through a period of being good and hitting it early. That goal against Burnley for example. WTF he hasn't pushed on who knows but he hasn't and like you say never will. He's a top championship level player stealing a living in the Prem.

Was my view on signing him, and one good season aside - which IIRC drew a new contract - he's maintained the same level most of the time with us, and doesn't look like changing.

[UpweySaint]

23 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

I know you love to be pedantic but is it really that difficult to understand?

I haven't had and won't be having the jabs, so with vaccine passports I would not be allowed into the stadium.

Up until today it has looked very likely passports would be implemented, and still might be by clubs/the PL even if not by government. Therefor I decided not to renew rather than waste hundreds of pounds on something I probably wouldn't be able to use. There were other reasons too but that was the biggest one.

That's my three posts so if you still don't get it I can't help. Have a good evening.

Could you not have returned negative tests to get passports as needed? You're entitled to your opinion about the vaccine but do you have strong feelings about the odd swab? They're not terribly intrusive.

 

As you say you had other reasons - it just seems a shame you're decision has been influenced by such a broadly common policy.

 

Also, way to feed the MLG! 

[stknowle]

7 hours ago, Fatboy40 said:

Even giving RH the benefit of the doubt I'm still baffled why he hasn't tried this. Redmond was so bang average, it was frustrating watching him, and so many of the conversations around me were "why's KWP not starting with Tino in-front of him".

Has KWP shat in RH's coffee or something?

 

You ain't the only one. Didn't realise Livramento played in midfield for England U21's in midweek as confirmed further up this thread. Makes it even more bizarre it hasn't been tried. I'm going to keep on banging on about this until it finally happens.

[The Cat]

37 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Thing is he went through a period of being good and hitting it early. That goal against Burnley for example. WTF he hasn't pushed on who knows but he hasn't and like you say never will. He's a top championship level player stealing a living in the Prem.

He's a weird one because whenever we play lower league teams he's on fire and looks far better than them, yet in the Premier League he's wildly inconsistent.

Too good for the championship, not consistent enough to regularly perform at a high level in the premier league.

[stknowle]

1 minute ago, The Cat said:

He's a weird one because whenever we play lower league teams he's on fire and looks far better than them, yet in the Premier League he's wildly inconsistent.

Too good for the championship, not consistent enough to regularly perform at a high level in the premier league.

Unfortunately you get players like that and in this case it's unfortunate for us.  Billy Sharp, Jordan Rhodes, prolific marksmen in the championship but ineffecitve/not trusted in the Prem (did Rhodes ever actually play at that level, I think possibly not?) there are probably countless other examples and not just attackers, Cat. Like you say, a weird one. Some players - eg Lambert - seem to just adjust and prove effective at whatever level they play at whereas others who look outstanding at a lower level - eg Lee Trundle - don't even get the chance to prove they can't cut it higher up, which can only be because the coaches/talent spotters concluded for whatever reason he simply would not have made it. 

For the sake of himself (and me, and probably lots of us tbh) I'd like to see Nathan drop a division and rip it up for another club in the Championship.

[Billy the Kidd]

4 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Unfortunately you get players like that and in this case it's unfortunate for us.  Billy Sharp, Jordan Rhodes, prolific marksmen in the championship but ineffecitve/not trusted in the Prem (did Rhodes ever actually play at that level, I think possibly not?) there are probably countless other examples and not just attackers, Cat. Like you say, a weird one. Some players - eg Lambert - seem to just adjust and prove effective at whatever level they play at whereas others who look outstanding at a lower level - eg Lee Trundle - don't even get the chance to prove they can't cut it higher up, which can only be because the coaches/talent spotters concluded for whatever reason he simply would not have made it. 

For the sake of himself (and me, and probably lots of us tbh) I'd like to see Nathan drop a division and rip it up for another club in the Championship.

I was always hoping Norwich would be daft enough to bid for him in the summer. Although not sure we would have sold him.

[JRM]

12 hours ago, Shroppie said:

Pricing isn't the main factor. Many fans are still unwilling to return to large crowd situations.

Doesn't seem to be affecting other clubs in the Premier league? Perhaps they have larger reserve of fans who are ready to take the place of those who had stopped coming. 

People I know who aren't going is mainly due to getting out of the habit and spending £50 just doesn't appeal, need a run of victories to tempt them back as our poor form of 2021 isn't going to. 

 

[SFC Forever]

I would have paid for his taxi to get anywhere else where he could play. He can't have much longer on his contract surely.

[Kermitzasaint]

8 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Apart from hitting the post and having once cleared of the line.

If you take away our good play and chances then you are totally correct 👍

The good play only came once Armstrong was replaced. 

[Hawkswood]

2 hours ago, The Cat said:

yet in the Premier League he's wildly inconsistent.

Hes not. Redmond is incredibly consistent in the Premier League.

[Billy the Kidd]

25 minutes ago, Kermitzasaint said:

The good play only came once Armstrong was replaced. 

So? Few teams can dominate an entire game, and we came closest to winning. 

I’m just not sure what is wrong with that, the game plan worked pretty well I thought, but horses for courses as they say. 

[suewhistle]

3 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

I haven't had and won't be having the jabs, so with vaccine passports I would not be allowed into the stadium.

What about being tested: would you agree to that? Or do you not want to do anything about other people's health and their concerns? It's not surprising there were gaps yesterday if people consider others a risk.

As it happens I didn't think the atmosphere too bad, and the whole ground was singing at times. The couple next to me visiting from Norn Ireland were certainly making a decent noise too.

Given the moans about our defence recently, and the way we have been bullied by West Ham in the recent past I thought the approach was valid, and we certainly had the better chances:  Redmond (pity it wasn't Adams or Tella) from a lovely pass from Armstrong, the shot off the post and the one off the line. The consensus in the ground was that it was a decent game, as the applause at the end testified.

 

[captainchris]

5 hours ago, Minsk said:

What a load of twaddle. It is quite obvious to anyone with any idea of football how many players have improved under Ralph and his team's coaching. 

And you do realise the huge gulf in finances between ourselves and Chelsea, especially in regard to the youth systems?

Talking of twaddle!

[teamsaint]

1 hour ago, suewhistle said:

What about being tested: would you agree to that? Or do you not want to do anything about other people's health and their concerns? It's not surprising there were gaps yesterday if people consider others a risk.

As it happens I didn't think the atmosphere too bad, and the whole ground was singing at times. The couple next to me visiting from Norn Ireland were certainly making a decent noise too.

Given the moans about our defence recently, and the way we have been bullied by West Ham in the recent past I thought the approach was valid, and we certainly had the better chances:  Redmond (pity it wasn't Adams or Tella) from a lovely pass from Armstrong, the shot off the post and the one off the line. The consensus in the ground was that it was a decent game, as the applause at the end testified.

 

Until there is either some actual evidence that vaccine passports have some public health benefit, ( and the parliamentary committee found that they didn’t) or even a strong case made for how that might be, there is no case whatsoever even for the threat of imposing them.

And of course, the plan for passports with no testing option , is actually complete nonsense , in the sense that many of those who would have been free to attend are actually more likely to be infected than those unvaxxed who had tested negative.

 

[suewhistle]

8 hours ago, teamsaint said:

Until there is either some actual evidence that vaccine passports have some public health benefit, 

I'm fine with no vaccine passports: my issue is with people who won't take the vaccine (can't is another issue). My mum has just come out of hospital and for most of the time she was in isolation and getting very down, having probably been in contact with someone in A&E where it's more difficult to control.  The hospital were obviously taking the issue seriously even if a lot of other people now aren't, and the numbers still don't look good.

[Ldnsaint]

Solid performance, fair result. Perraud and the rest of the back 4 impressive. 

Romeu and JWP poor

Can't wait for Stu Armstrong to be back.

 

[Scummer]

On 11/09/2021 at 16:50, Suhari said:

Bizarre drop ball thing?

Surprised there has not been more discussion of this. Ogbonna went down, ref stops play for a head injury but the player them receives treatment for cramp/leg injury. Followed by the strangest drop ball situation I've ever seen. Did the ref realise he'd made a mistake and just make up a completely new way of restarting the game to try and make it up to us? I was expecting West Ham to pass it all the way back to our keeper, not some strange uncontested drop ball where their players had to stay 6 yards away until we played the ball.....

[ErwinK1961]

1 hour ago, Scummer said:

Surprised there has not been more discussion of this. Ogbonna went down, ref stops play for a head injury but the player them receives treatment for cramp/leg injury. Followed by the strangest drop ball situation I've ever seen. Did the ref realise he'd made a mistake and just make up a completely new way of restarting the game to try and make it up to us? I was expecting West Ham to pass it all the way back to our keeper, not some strange uncontested drop ball where their players had to stay 6 yards away until we played the ball.....

Ref generally had a bit of a shocker in the last 15 mins. Seemed to wait until we had played ourselves in before stopping for the head injury (which turned out to be a load of bollocks anyway), booked Salisu for a perfectly good tackle, didn't even look to see what advantage there was before stopping the game to second yellow Antonio. 

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Scummer said:

Surprised there has not been more discussion of this. Ogbonna went down, ref stops play for a head injury but the player them receives treatment for cramp/leg injury. Followed by the strangest drop ball situation I've ever seen. Did the ref realise he'd made a mistake and just make up a completely new way of restarting the game to try and make it up to us? I was expecting West Ham to pass it all the way back to our keeper, not some strange uncontested drop ball where their players had to stay 6 yards away until we played the ball.....

I'd like to think it's a new rule they've introduced on the sly, but honestly the ref seemed to have no clue what he was doing the entire game. Ogbonna should have been booked for simulation there and the fact he stopped the game at the end when we were breaking away to give Antonio his second yellow...my god.

[Whitey Grandad]

And that weird decision early on when JWP got fouled so he played on and then decided later to bring the game back for a free kick to us.

An uncontested dropped ball is new to me since I stopped blowing my whistle so I have just looked up the decision of the IFAB

 

• In all other cases, the referee drops the ball for one player of the team that last touched the ball at the position where it last touched a player, an outside agent or, as outlined in Law 9.1, a match official

• All other players (of both teams) must remain at least 4 m (4.5 yds) from the ball until it is in play

     The ball is in play when it touches the ground.

https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/the-start-and-restart-of-play/#introduction

Now here's the weird bit. As I recall Redmond didn't touch the ball as it was dropped and the West Ham players all hared after it. The referee sent them back and dropped it again even though the ball was in play after it had touched the ground irrespective of whether Redmond had touched it or not.

[Minsk]

17 hours ago, captainchris said:

Talking twaddle!

I know you were. I already said that!

 

[StDunko]

I was at MK Dons game and witnessed the "Mars Bar on his head" incident (thankfully from a safe distance). I didn't ever expect that to be surpassed, but a group of Hammers fans at central station after the game delivered...

The sheer delight they all had in chanting "We've got a toilet brush, we've got a toilet brush" whilst waving the rather stained looking object around, (probably flinging tiny bits of turd and piss over their stone island jumpers).

We're going to have to up our game to match that!

[Danbert]

On 12/09/2021 at 20:48, The Cat said:

He's a weird one because whenever we play lower league teams he's on fire and looks far better than them, yet in the Premier League he's wildly inconsistent.

Too good for the championship, not consistent enough to regularly perform at a high level in the premier league.

He was deservedly our player of the season in 2018/19, so clearly he is capable of regularly performing at a high level. Personally, I also think he's one of our better wide players. I'd far rather have him in the side than Elyounoussi. 

[Saint Keef]

On 13/09/2021 at 12:47, Whitey Grandad said:

And that weird decision early on when JWP got fouled so he played on and then decided later to bring the game back for a free kick to us.

An uncontested dropped ball is new to me since I stopped blowing my whistle so I have just looked up the decision of the IFAB

 

• In all other cases, the referee drops the ball for one player of the team that last touched the ball at the position where it last touched a player, an outside agent or, as outlined in Law 9.1, a match official

• All other players (of both teams) must remain at least 4 m (4.5 yds) from the ball until it is in play

     The ball is in play when it touches the ground.

https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/the-start-and-restart-of-play/#introduction

Now here's the weird bit. As I recall Redmond didn't touch the ball as it was dropped and the West Ham players all hared after it. The referee sent them back and dropped it again even though the ball was in play after it had touched the ground irrespective of whether Redmond had touched it or not.

Redmond was probably trying to make his mind up whether the ball had touched the ground or not.

[Whitey Grandad]

14 minutes ago, Saint Keef said:

Redmond was probably trying to make his mind up whether the ball had touched the ground or not.

He’s still not sure even now.