Saints 0-0 West Ham - Match Thread

[Matthew Le God]

4 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

That’s your interpretation and opinion. Nothing wrong with that but it’s still just your opinion.  I disagree with it.

Nope, not merely my opinion... that of Mike Riley (head of refs).

Denying a clear chance is someone about to score and being hacked down, not someone maybe having a shot in 5 seconds time after the foul.

Edited 12 September, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

a large distance from the goal as denying a clear opportunity

I'll repeat my question... How close to the goal does a player have to be for it to not be considered "a large distance"? If you can't give a precise answer then we agree there's an element of interpretation/subjectivity involved. 

For example, I would interpret this as a clear goal scoring opportunity, others might not...

 

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Denying a clear chance is someone about to score and being hacked down, not someone maybe having a shot in 5 seconds time.

What about 3 seconds, or 2 seconds? 

[revolution saint]

5 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Nope, not merely my opinion... that of Mike Riley (head of refs).

Denying a clear chance is someone about to score and being hacked down, not someone maybe having a shot in 5 seconds time after the foul.

So still an opinion then? I repeat, there’s nothing in the rules that state play couldn’t continue.

[austsaint]

18 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Broja should be starting but Ralph is blind. He should be among the first names on the team sheet because he is everything this team lacks - powerful, strong, direct, fast, skillful and good in the air and with his feet. If Ralph continues to omit him from the starting line up you have to ask yourself if he knows what he is doing.

I offered the opinion a month or so ago that Broja might be "knocking the selection door down" sooner than later, and after todays cameo it's hard to argue with that.   There were several positives for Saints in a game which was dour, almost turgid, before Broja's arrival.    LIvramento once again showed his precocious talent; Perraud showed that he is going to fill Bertrand's spot very well - great crosses, showed speed with several wide bursts and defended well.   Salisu stamped himself as a genuine Prem CB and had Antonio in his pocket most of the day....hard to fault Stephens either.

The bad stuff!   Ralph selecting Redmond - and then leaving him on after his dismal first half - Broja showed in a few minutes that he can play wide right as well as up front.    Leaving Armstrong isolated up front and playing Elynoussi and JWP as attacking midfielders didn't work; nor did shoe-horning Diallo into that spot and dropping Ward-Prowse back to Romeu's defensive midfield role work out either.    Ralph just doesn't seem to see when to change formation or switch tactics - today would have been an ideal chance to play KWP at RB and push Livramento into Redmond's role.    I also think we would have got more out of Che Adams playing instead of Elynoussi which might have helped with some hold up play and linking up with an isolated Armstrong.   

[John Boy Saint]

9 minutes ago, austsaint said:

I offered the opinion a month or so ago that Broja might be "knocking the selection door down" sooner than later, and after todays cameo it's hard to argue with that.   There were several positives for Saints in a game which was dour, almost turgid, before Broja's arrival.    LIvramento once again showed his precocious talent; Perraud showed that he is going to fill Bertrand's spot very well - great crosses, showed speed with several wide bursts and defended well.   Salisu stamped himself as a genuine Prem CB and had Antonio in his pocket most of the day....hard to fault Stephens either.

The bad stuff!   Ralph selecting Redmond - and then leaving him on after his dismal first half - Broja showed in a few minutes that he can play wide right as well as up front.    Leaving Armstrong isolated up front and playing Elynoussi and JWP as attacking midfielders didn't work; nor did shoe-horning Diallo into that spot and dropping Ward-Prowse back to Romeu's defensive midfield role work out either.    Ralph just doesn't seem to see when to change formation or switch tactics - today would have been an ideal chance to play KWP at RB and push Livramento into Redmond's role.    I also think we would have got more out of Che Adams playing instead of Elynoussi which might have helped with some hold up play and linking up with an isolated Armstrong.   

Tella should have been on earlier - last few minutes of the 90 West Ham were blowing out of their arses especially at the back, Him and Broja would have not been fun to defend against.

[Matthew Le God]

39 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

So still an opinion then? I repeat, there’s nothing in the rules that state play couldn’t continue.

Not merely opinion. Yes there is things in the rules, I linked to rule 12 that states there is no advantage to be played if a second yellow offence occurs and there is no clear goalscoring opportunity. 

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

Plus, the tackle happened outside our own penalty area. That is clearly a huge distance from the West Ham goal.

The organisation responsible for the rules of the sport state distance from goal is a factor. Surely you can't deny our penalty area to the West Ham goal is a huge distance?

 

Edited 12 September, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Kermitzasaint]

Can't help but think we could be a decent side if not for Ralph. We have some decent options yet we are continually hamstrung by Ralph's complete inability to coach the side.

 

[Verbal Kint]

1 hour ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Can't help but think we could be a decent side if not for Ralph. We have some decent options yet we are continually hamstrung by Ralph's complete inability to coach the side.

 

I think the opposite. This is one of the weakest squads quality wise I can remember us having in the PL and Ralph set us up accordingly - protect the fragile CBs and be quite defensive.

Djenepo, Redmond, Elyounoussi, A. Armstrong is a championship level front 4 and that's what Ralph is dealing with. All 4 were terrible, as was JWP. 

It was an awful game until Broja came on and livened it up a bit. He looks very useful.

It will be a long season

[Billy the Kidd]

6 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Broja should be starting but Ralph is blind. He should be among the first names on the team sheet because he is everything this team lacks - powerful, strong, direct, fast, skillful and good in the air and with his feet. If Ralph continues to omit him from the starting line up you have to ask yourself if he knows what he is doing.

Is this the same manager who wanted to sign him on loan, who is integrating a young player into the way he wants us to play, and who has started once he has had such integration, to put him in the team?

Now I’m not sure Ralph will want to start him away at City, which I’d be ok with, but I do believe he will start many games and have a pretty good career. 

[Saints foreva]

Has the attendance been posted anywhere? It looked very low on my stream. They've well and truly ballsed up the pricing this season it seems. 

[Billy the Kidd]

Pretty decent game that, the manager seems to be learning new things, less stubborn than previous matches/seasons.

The players seem to be getting a better understanding from what Ralph wants, they all seem pretty much behind him, thought we played better as a unity and harder to beat.

I thought we would have 4 points by this point, from a win at Newcastle and draw today, so pretty happy. Will be delighted if we get another point from our next two games, and the season starts after that for me - we’ve had a hard run of games.

[Shroppie]

27 minutes ago, Saints foreva said:

Has the attendance been posted anywhere? It looked very low on my stream. They've well and truly ballsed up the pricing this season it seems. 

Pricing isn't the main factor. Many fans are still unwilling to return to large crowd situations.

Edited 12 September, 2021 by Shroppie

[The Cat]

34 minutes ago, Saints foreva said:

Has the attendance been posted anywhere? It looked very low on my stream. They've well and truly ballsed up the pricing this season it seems. 

There were loads of empty seats at the back of the Northam/Kingsland corner which was strange as those used to be full. Did everyone there move en masse to another part of the stadium?

[Sarisbury Saint]

40 minutes ago, Saints foreva said:

Has the attendance been posted anywhere? It looked very low on my stream. They've well and truly ballsed up the pricing this season it seems. 

Plus the the ticket office that doesn’t pickup the phone to sell tickets.

I tried 3 times this week and on three separate days at different times and on all occasions the phone kept ringing for 20 minutes before I hung up.

[Forester]

10 hours ago, UpweySaint said:

His end product is still lacking but Djenepo and Perraud showed early signs of a good partnership down the left. Some real plus points to come out of today - really solid at the back and it felt like we had options - even if we didn't use them all. Last year I looked at the bench and shrugged - this year when there is Broja, Armstrong, KWP, Diallo, Walcott, Adams, Tella I can see lots of ways we can impact a game. Ralph also made a good early sub!

This is a very good point.  The subs bench quality so far this season is incomparable to last couple of years

[Toussaint]

47 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Plus the the ticket office that doesn’t pickup the phone to sell tickets.

I tried 3 times this week and on three separate days at different times and on all occasions the phone kept ringing for 20 minutes before I hung up.

Seems to be geared for buying more online these days, it’s not too difficult once you are initially  set up.

[Patrick Bateman]

1 hour ago, Saints foreva said:

Has the attendance been posted anywhere? It looked very low on my stream. They've well and truly ballsed up the pricing this season it seems. 

I don't think I've seen a full up ground at any match on TV, so I think there are a couple of things a) pricing overall for football is ridiculous right now, especially considering the rises in costs of everything else like energy, so people maybe prioritising and b) there are still a lot of people who don't want to sit in a crowd which is fair enough. 

[Roo1976]

8 hours ago, austsaint said:

I offered the opinion a month or so ago that Broja might be "knocking the selection door down" sooner than later, and after todays cameo it's hard to argue with that.   There were several positives for Saints in a game which was dour, almost turgid, before Broja's arrival.    LIvramento once again showed his precocious talent; Perraud showed that he is going to fill Bertrand's spot very well - great crosses, showed speed with several wide bursts and defended well.   Salisu stamped himself as a genuine Prem CB and had Antonio in his pocket most of the day....hard to fault Stephens either.

The bad stuff!   Ralph selecting Redmond - and then leaving him on after his dismal first half - Broja showed in a few minutes that he can play wide right as well as up front.    Leaving Armstrong isolated up front and playing Elynoussi and JWP as attacking midfielders didn't work; nor did shoe-horning Diallo into that spot and dropping Ward-Prowse back to Romeu's defensive midfield role work out either.    Ralph just doesn't seem to see when to change formation or switch tactics - today would have been an ideal chance to play KWP at RB and push Livramento into Redmond's role.    I also think we would have got more out of Che Adams playing instead of Elynoussi which might have helped with some hold up play and linking up with an isolated Armstrong.   

Totally cant argue with any of your assessments of the game. How does Redmond keep getting starts?.......hes got the whole game to come up with something .

Unlike a sub, who if your on our bench seem to get between 8 or 9 or no time at all  to influence the game. Hes so not direct at all . That chat Pep had with him at City

a couple of seasons ago has affected him im sure of it .He shows no urgency and often slows the move down to a crawl and it ends up with a backwards pass. That said

both teams passing were poor today but i was expecting alot more from us as we were at home. Why cant we play 4-4-2 ?...... we seem to end up as the home team playing on the counter attack  with just one up front and 10 behind the ball. Tella must have forgotten to say morning boss somewhere along the line this term,

where is he? Should have been on for Redmond or ELy for at least last 10 mins when we at least seemed to have made a few attacking attempts and seemed on top.

[S-Clarke]

8 hours ago, austsaint said:

I offered the opinion a month or so ago that Broja might be "knocking the selection door down" sooner than later, and after todays cameo it's hard to argue with that.   There were several positives for Saints in a game which was dour, almost turgid, before Broja's arrival.    LIvramento once again showed his precocious talent; Perraud showed that he is going to fill Bertrand's spot very well - great crosses, showed speed with several wide bursts and defended well.   Salisu stamped himself as a genuine Prem CB and had Antonio in his pocket most of the day....hard to fault Stephens either.

The bad stuff!   Ralph selecting Redmond - and then leaving him on after his dismal first half - Broja showed in a few minutes that he can play wide right as well as up front.    Leaving Armstrong isolated up front and playing Elynoussi and JWP as attacking midfielders didn't work; nor did shoe-horning Diallo into that spot and dropping Ward-Prowse back to Romeu's defensive midfield role work out either.    Ralph just doesn't seem to see when to change formation or switch tactics - today would have been an ideal chance to play KWP at RB and push Livramento into Redmond's role.    I also think we would have got more out of Che Adams playing instead of Elynoussi which might have helped with some hold up play and linking up with an isolated Armstrong.   

I personally thought we looked better when Diallo played that attacking role, we had more mobility straight away. We did play quite a low block and a compact team, that probably made it harder for the likes of Armstrong or Moi to really stand out. West Ham themselves are a solid outfit too.

However I'd say that Redmond, with his pace - and Moussa - need to be our outlets in that kind of tactical setup, that is what they were there for. Redmond is just Redmond though, that chance summed him up - just f***ing hit it! I knew as soon as he took that extra touch it was done. That's him in a nutshell, he will never, ever change and it's infuriating to watch. He just wants too much time, he looks better in lower league games as he gets more time...but you don't get that at his level.

I'd like to have seen Tella to be honest, he commits and attacks with much more purpose than Redmond does - he's not afraid to have a crack for a start.

Moussa works hard and is likeable for sure, does a good job defensively for the team - but where we need him he just doesn't produce. All legs, no action.

[david in sweden]

well back to the match, anyway.    Scoring opportunities were few and far between for both sides.

A clean sheet and good performances from McCarthy and Salisu (who improves with every game), and gave 

as good as he got in the battle with Antonio, who finally lost out after his late scuffle with Jack Stephens who

seems to be happier playing " the last man " role with more freedom to roam. 

 

Many people have expressed sympathy for KWP, but that's football and who would not play Tino on his showings so far ?

We saw Ralph's plan B - with a type of 4-1-4-1 formation - which gave away possession, but countered the mass attack

style that Moyes likes. Whatever the formation, (sadly) Redmond playing on the right just didn't fit into it, and Adam Armstrong

had a tough day as a lone striker,  a role that might have suited Ché Adams a little better. 

It will take time for the two " A men" to form a  good strike partnership that we belatedly saw between Adams and Ings. 

It wasn't Romeu's best game ..(early yellow cards tend to tame the spirit a little,)  but Diallo came on and DAJFU.

After recent criticism,  Djenepo had a better game, and Perraud's left-wing sorties will cause defenders problems on another day.

 

Whilst screaming at my screen for earlier subs.   Armando Broja eventually appeared and almost won the game single-handedly.

(Apparently) ...We have a worse points record against W Ham than even v. Everton and Man. Utd, so perhaps a draw should 

be reviewed positively and looking at the Prem. table perhaps one point against West Ham and  Man. Utd  gives some cause for satisfaction.

 

The next  four Prem. fixtures may give some better indication as to where we really stand for the rest of the season.  

 

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Not merely opinion. Yes there is things in the rules, I linked to rule 12 that states there is no advantage to be played if a second yellow offence occurs and there is no clear goalscoring opportunity. 

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

Plus, the tackle happened outside our own penalty area. That is clearly a huge distance from the West Ham goal.

The organisation responsible for the rules of the sport state distance from goal is a factor. Surely you can't deny our penalty area to the West Ham goal is a huge distance?

 

I suspect that this is starting to get a bit monotonous for some readers but the important words here are “must consider”. This referee did nothing of the sort and jumped straight to the yellow card. It was not mandatory that he awarded a second yellow even if it was richly deserved. There are three other items in that list apart from the one about distance to goal.

[beatlesaint]

6 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Can't help but think we could be a decent side if not for Ralph. We have some decent options yet we are continually hamstrung by Ralph's complete inability to coach the side.

 

I think its Ralph's inability to pick the best side that will hamper us. Tino and KWP interchanging on the right is a no brainer, even the England U21 coach gave Ralph a clue midweek by playing Tino right midfield. 

Make the most of Broja while we have him, whichever one of Armstrong or Adams forms the best partnership with him gets the nod. 

[Charlie Wayman]

A dour and unimaginative performance from Saints contributed to a scrappy and in most part utterly forgettable match with few highlights and little genuine excitement. If this is what it takes to keep clean sheets then we are in for a long, boring and miserable season.

Salisu was our one player worthy of the MotM tag while McCarthy showed improvement with a couple of good reaction saves and increased aerial authority in his 6 yard box. Stephens was reliable and solid and did what he is paid to do. JWP & Romeu were way below par and Redmond frustrated as only he can. With a misfiring midfield we never really got going. Why Tella's pace wasn't used alongside Broja in the late stages of the game is beyond me, whet's the kid done to have fallen so far from grace? Leaving Armstrong to forage on his own for much of the match was a recipe for certain failure and we rarely offered a serious goal threat. 

It seems to me that we are not in good shape for next week's visit to City, caught between this new negative style of keeping a clean sheet at all cost, and our normal high-octane easy on the eye attacking play. Once again there were question marks over Ralph's team selection, while Tino seems to be his flavour of the month I am not convinced he is any better than Kyle W-P defensively or going forward. Certainly in the final third in positioning and decision making KWP is far superior. Ralph should not forget that Livramento is 18 and has a lot to learn.

Playing Djenepo, Elyonoussi and Redmond together seemed extravagant and short sighted especially with Theo side-lined, leaving us with no viable substitution options when they tired.

[Sheaf Saint]

I don't understand why MOTD didn't show the Redmond 'chance' from our breakaway after WH came close from a corner. They just cut it and showed a replay of that, ignoring the fact we came close to scoring immediately after. Very strange.

[Matthew Le God]

51 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I suspect that this is starting to get a bit monotonous for some readers but the important words here are “must consider”. This referee did nothing of the sort and jumped straight to the yellow card. It was not mandatory that he awarded a second yellow even if it was richly deserved. There are three other items in that list apart from the one about distance to goal.

Hasenhuttl needed the ref to explain the rules to him at the end of the game, like I have to you. Hasenhuttl has accepted the rules were followed... why can't you?

Quote

 

At first, I said that it was a bad decision but I must say that if he keeps Antonio on the pitch and he scores then I would be saying: ‘Why didn't he send him off?'

I got a yellow as I was very emotional and this is okay. I can understand his argument.

 

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/what-referee-david-coote-said-5905152

[Turkish]

What was the attendance? Looked empty on MOTD

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

What was the attendance? Looked empty on MOTD

-1 due to you not attending

[Roo1976]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I personally thought we looked better when Diallo played that attacking role, we had more mobility straight away. We did play quite a low block and a compact team, that probably made it harder for the likes of Armstrong or Moi to really stand out. West Ham themselves are a solid outfit too.

However I'd say that Redmond, with his pace - and Moussa - need to be our outlets in that kind of tactical setup, that is what they were there for. Redmond is just Redmond though, that chance summed him up - just f***ing hit it! I knew as soon as he took that extra touch it was done. That's him in a nutshell, he will never, ever change and it's infuriating to watch. He just wants too much time, he looks better in lower league games as he gets more time...but you don't get that at his level.

I'd like to have seen Tella to be honest, he commits and attacks with much more purpose than Redmond does - he's not afraid to have a crack for a start.

Moussa works hard and is likeable for sure, does a good job defensively for the team - but where we need him he just doesn't produce. All legs, no action.

Very good summary, my other view is Djenepo seems to always be looking to get fouled, very lightweight, and end product is more miss than hit. Bambi on ice all over the place ,as said in commentary  1 goal in last 45 matches i believe or something like that. Borja looks a good prospect, these signings from Chelsea seem very very good atm,

its good to see such drive and ambition on the pitch, pitty we haven't got this sort of talent up and coming through our system,or if we have Ralph doesn't trust them.

[LeBizzier69]

I’m guessing RH has his reasons for not playing KWP and pushing TL further up but I’m at a loss to understand why he felt Redmond (NR) was the better option. Surely that’s the biggest no brainer of any of them?!

[beatlesaint]

56 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I don't understand why MOTD didn't show the Redmond 'chance' from our breakaway after WH came close from a corner. They just cut it and showed a replay of that, ignoring the fact we came close to scoring immediately after. Very strange.

Maybe like the rest of us they knew it wasn’t a real chance given it was Redmond 🤣

But yeah, in all seriousness a game of fairly few highlights you would think they could have squeezed that in.

[Mr X]

Dejenpo & Redmond should never ever both be on the pitch at the same time again, both completely clueless in the final third!  dejenpo at least looks like he's trying I guess but he's been here years and still no end product same with Redmond. Will these two ever have an end product? 

[beatlesaint]

5 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Dejenpo & Redmond should never ever both be on the pitch at the same time again, both completely clueless in the final third!  dejenpo at least looks like he's trying I guess but he's been here years and still no end product same with Redmond. Will these two ever have an end product? 

I would rather have Dejenpo out of the two. If he doesn’t know what he’s gonna do next then niether do defenders. He needs to produce an end product, that’s what the coaching staff are there for, to help him with that.
 

You can’t fall the 100% effort he puts in, he worked his socks off yesterday.

Edited 12 September, 2021 by beatlesaint

[Mr X]

1 minute ago, beatlesaint said:

I would rather have Dejenpo out of the two. If he doesn’t know what he’s gonna do next then niether do defenders. He needs to produce an end product, that’s what the coaching staff are there for. 
 

You can’t fall the 100% effort he puts in, he worked his socks off yesterday.

Agree the efforts there not faulting that but he should be delivering some kind of end product even if it's not goals which he hasn't scored for years at least a correct decision in the final third he seems incapable of that wants too many touches and runs straight into trouble ala Redmond 

[Fatboy40]

1 hour ago, beatlesaint said:

Tino and KWP interchanging on the right is a no brainer...

Even giving RH the benefit of the doubt I'm still baffled why he hasn't tried this. Redmond was so bang average, it was frustrating watching him, and so many of the conversations around me were "why's KWP not starting with Tino in-front of him".

Has KWP shat in RH's coffee or something?

 

[jimmer42]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

A dour and unimaginative performance from Saints contributed to a scrappy and in most part utterly forgettable match with few highlights and little genuine excitement. If this is what it takes to keep clean sheets then we are in for a long, boring and miserable season.

Salisu was our one player worthy of the MotM tag while McCarthy showed improvement with a couple of good reaction saves and increased aerial authority in his 6 yard box. Stephens was reliable and solid and did what he is paid to do. JWP & Romeu were way below par and Redmond frustrated as only he can. With a misfiring midfield we never really got going. Why Tella's pace wasn't used alongside Broja in the late stages of the game is beyond me, whet's the kid done to have fallen so far from grace? Leaving Armstrong to forage on his own for much of the match was a recipe for certain failure and we rarely offered a serious goal threat. 

It seems to me that we are not in good shape for next week's visit to City, caught between this new negative style of keeping a clean sheet at all cost, and our normal high-octane easy on the eye attacking play. Once again there were question marks over Ralph's team selection, while Tino seems to be his flavour of the month I am not convinced he is any better than Kyle W-P defensively or going forward. Certainly in the final third in positioning and decision making KWP is far superior. Ralph should not forget that Livramento is 18 and has a lot to learn.

Playing Djenepo, Elyonoussi and Redmond together seemed extravagant and short sighted especially with Theo side-lined, leaving us with no viable substitution options when they tired.

you must have been watching a completely different game to me.

Coming out of the ground it seemed that most of the fans, like me, really enjoyed the game and most that I spoke to, thought we deserved to win

considering how Antonio completely bullied our Centre backs in the last few games, I was really impressed with how we played. The rest of my family are West Ham fans and my day would have been f*cking murder if we'd lost, so I'm grateful for that

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

Hasenhuttl needed the ref to explain the rules to him at the end of the game, like I have to you. Hasenhuttl has accepted the rules were followed... why can't you?

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/what-referee-david-coote-said-5905152

You don’t need to explain any of the Laws to me.

” and accepted that the correct call may well have been made.

You have obviously missed the point that I and others have made. In that situation the referee should wait a few seconds to see what advantage, if any, arises. Then he can stop play and administer the second yellow. We are not talking about a long time here, just some awareness of the onfield situation.

Antonio would have taken no part in that counter attack so could not have scored or made a block.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, jimmer42 said:

you must have been watching a completely different game to me.

Coming out of the ground it seemed that most of the fans, like me, really enjoyed the game and most that I spoke to, thought we deserved to win

considering how Antonio completely bullied our Centre backs in the last few games, I was really impressed with how we played. The rest of my family are West Ham fans and my day would have been f*cking murder if we'd lost, so I'm grateful for that

It was a good game between two evenly matched teams in my view. If West Ham had won they could have gone to the top of the table.

[SFC Forever]

Beat me to it. A ref always has the chance to wave play on if an attack looks promising and as WG says book Antonio after.

[Kermitzasaint]

7 hours ago, Verbal Kint said:

I think the opposite. This is one of the weakest squads quality wise I can remember us having in the PL and Ralph set us up accordingly - protect the fragile CBs and be quite defensive.

Djenepo, Redmond, Elyounoussi, A. Armstrong is a championship level front 4 and that's what Ralph is dealing with. All 4 were terrible, as was JWP. 

It was an awful game until Broja came on and livened it up a bit. He looks very useful.

It will be a long season

So why does Ralph pick those players then? The team wasn't set up to provide Armstrong the service he needs. The whole team was disjointed and was never going to work. 

[manji]

5 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Pretty decent game that, the manager seems to be learning new things, less stubborn than previous matches/seasons.

The players seem to be getting a better understanding from what Ralph wants, they all seem pretty much behind him, thought we played better as a unity and harder to beat.

I thought we would have 4 points by this point, from a win at Newcastle and draw today, so pretty happy. Will be delighted if we get another point from our next two games, and the season starts after that for me - we’ve had a hard run of games.

 

[Billy the Kidd]

15 minutes ago, Kermitzasaint said:

So why does Ralph pick those players then? The team wasn't set up to provide Armstrong the service he needs. The whole team was disjointed and was never going to work. 

Apart from hitting the post and having once cleared of the line.

If you take away our good play and chances then you are totally correct 👍

[manji]

As I’ve already said we would have lost the last three games last season. Ralph is doing well bearing in mind the “new” players in the team . Top ten finish.

[ecuk268]

1 hour ago, jimmer42 said:

you must have been watching a completely different game to me.

Coming out of the ground it seemed that most of the fans, like me, really enjoyed the game and most that I spoke to, thought we deserved to win

considering how Antonio completely bullied our Centre backs in the last few games, I was really impressed with how we played. The rest of my family are West Ham fans and my day would have been f*cking murder if we'd lost, so I'm grateful for that

That was the feeling that I got. The team got a  decent reception at the final whistle. 

This West Ham team had scored 10 goals in 3 games and we restricted them to a handful of chances and got our first clean sheet in 8 months.

If a team is struggling the first thing to do is to stop conceding. Yesterday showed that we can do that. 

[WALK DMC]

5 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

That was the feeling that I got. The team got a  decent reception at the final whistle. 

This West Ham team had scored 10 goals in 3 games and we restricted them to a handful of chances and got our first clean sheet in 8 months.

If a team is struggling the first thing to do is to stop conceding. Yesterday showed that we can do that. 

It certainly wasn't a free flowing performance, and once or twice we rode our luck, notably Soucek's missed header from a corner, but that was one of the best defensive displays I've seen from us for a while (probably Chelsea or Leicester home being the others). 

What I find encouraging is the fact that Ralph has started to experiment with different formations both as a starting team or during the match with 4-2-2-2, 3-5-2 & 4-1-4-1 all been seen in the first 4 matches. For Man U, the formation was switched at half-time and that is what I'd like us do more; with 3-5-2 & 4-1-4-1 we look defensively better and perhaps these can be utilised the next time we go ahead. 

Football fans (and especially those on social media) are not renowned for their patience but I have been a little surprised at the negativity from many on here regarding the performance yesterday. Yes, it was flawed, but the formation was experimental and we stopped a top 6 team (who had scored 10 in 3) from having any real clear cut chances. Something to build upon (shame that we have Man City and Chelsea away in 2 of our next 3 games). 

Changing formations take time; I recall going to Liverpool in the early 80s and Lawrie decided to experiment with a back 3, which wasn't popular in England at the time. We got absolutely murdered 5-0. Yet Lawrie persisted and that formation was the bedrock for our best ever season 83-84 when we came 2nd. 

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, jimmer42 said:

you must have been watching a completely different game to me.

Coming out of the ground it seemed that most of the fans, like me, really enjoyed the game and most that I spoke to, thought we deserved to win

considering how Antonio completely bullied our Centre backs in the last few games, I was really impressed with how we played. The rest of my family are West Ham fans and my day would have been f*cking murder if we'd lost, so I'm grateful for that

Depends I suppose on one's expectations, if being set up mainly to contain the opposition, keep a clean sheet and hit them on the break for a 1-0 then some might have enjoyed that and fair to argue that the ends justify the means. That's not what I want to see. Let's just hope we have not given up on being a slick passing fast running attacking team that creates loads of chances and scores a few goals.

Perhaps that is naive. Surely it cannot be that the quality of our players is so low that RH can only set us up to defend or attack but not both?

[hasper57saint]

I’ve just heard that Ralph is taking Redmond to a local farm where he will be given a shovel and he will be chained to an iron peg and instructed how to hit the barn. 
I’m concerned that he will turn a round and strike the peg.

[The Left Back]

3 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

A dour and unimaginative performance from Saints contributed to a scrappy and in most part utterly forgettable match with few highlights and little genuine excitement. If this is what it takes to keep clean sheets then we are in for a long, boring and miserable season.

Salisu was our one player worthy of the MotM tag while McCarthy showed improvement with a couple of good reaction saves and increased aerial authority in his 6 yard box. Stephens was reliable and solid and did what he is paid to do. JWP & Romeu were way below par and Redmond frustrated as only he can. With a misfiring midfield we never really got going. Why Tella's pace wasn't used alongside Broja in the late stages of the game is beyond me, whet's the kid done to have fallen so far from grace? Leaving Armstrong to forage on his own for much of the match was a recipe for certain failure and we rarely offered a serious goal threat. 

It seems to me that we are not in good shape for next week's visit to City, caught between this new negative style of keeping a clean sheet at all cost, and our normal high-octane easy on the eye attacking play. Once again there were question marks over Ralph's team selection, while Tino seems to be his flavour of the month I am not convinced he is any better than Kyle W-P defensively or going forward. Certainly in the final third in positioning and decision making KWP is far superior. Ralph should not forget that Livramento is 18 and has a lot to learn.

Playing Djenepo, Elyonoussi and Redmond together seemed extravagant and short sighted especially with Theo side-lined, leaving us with no viable substitution options when they tired.

I just don't agree with this description of the game.  I didn't find it dour, unimaginative, forgettable or lacking in excitement.  I guess we just see it differently.  To say only Salisu was our only MotM candidate is harsh on Stephens.  The comments about Tino just don't make any sense to me.  Pretty much everyone round me has been purring about him for 2 games now.   Perraud was good defensively and offensively and is starting to gel with Moussa, who I thought played pretty well too.

Agree we could have been more ambitious earlier in the game, by bringing Tella or Adams on with Broja at the hour mark.  I suspect Ralph may have done that if hadn't used up a sub earlier.   

14 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Depends I suppose on one's expectations, if being set up mainly to contain the opposition, keep a clean sheet and hit them on the break for a 1-0 then some might have enjoyed that and fair to argue that the ends justify the means. That's not what I want to see. Let's just hope we have not given up on being a slick passing fast running attacking team that creates loads of chances and scores a few goals.

Perhaps that is naive. Surely it cannot be that the quality of our players is so low that RH can only set us up to defend or attack but not both?

My expectations are to see a team working well together, trying their best, playing to a clear plan and creating good chances in a loud and energised stadium.  And yesterday I got that, albeit would have enjoyed more chances created in the first half.  We've had a couple of seasons of being panned for being poor defensively and so I'm happy to have a period of getting the defensive organisation more solid.  We know how Ralph wants to play, high press, slick pass, high energy, as you describe.  Have patience, it will come.

[captainchris]

4 hours ago, Roo1976 said:

Very good summary, my other view is Djenepo seems to always be looking to get fouled, very lightweight, and end product is more miss than hit. Bambi on ice all over the place ,as said in commentary  1 goal in last 45 matches i believe or something like that. Borja looks a good prospect, these signings from Chelsea seem very very good atm,

its good to see such drive and ambition on the pitch, pitty we haven't got this sort of talent up and coming through our system,or if we have Ralph doesn't trust them.

This is very true. It does bring into sharp focus our poor recruiting and or coaching of our youth teams not to say also the first team where certain players are crying out to be coached well but obviously are not being.

[LuckyNumber7]

8 hours ago, The Cat said:

There were loads of empty seats at the back of the Northam/Kingsland corner which was strange as those used to be full. Did everyone there move en masse to another part of the stadium?

I had a ST there for nearly 20 years but didn't renew this season, mainly because of the vaccine passport nonsense. Can't say I'm missing it that much either, used to be a good atmosphere there but it's got steadily worse over the last few years with more kids/family/tourist types who have no interest in creating any atmosphere. Not to mention our diabolical home record in recent seasons.