England/Hungary/Racism Discussion (Split)

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

The problem with that is anyone can just register a free, anonymous account in barely two minutes. You can delete and ban certain users and their material - and they should - but it won’t achieve much. It’s bad enough on this forum, banning some prat and 20 minutes later an entirely new ‘persona’ is arguing with the same people on the same threads.

 

The problem with SM is it warps people and their perspective on life. I could quite easily delete all my accounts, which I scarcely post on anyway, if I was getting any kind of hassle. On the other hand, I saw an interview with whichever one of Little Mix quit, where she said she was getting loads of abuse, considered suicide (apparently) and only after an intervention of some sort with her loved ones, did she finally delete her SM accounts. 
 

I always treat these ‘I thought about killing myself’ stories with a pinch of salt but the fact that someone would say that BEFORE deleting their Twitter is in itself quite alarming.

That's what I was saying earlier. It's a generational thing and many of the younger generation love the majority of their lives on social media and it dominates their lives to a greater degree than real life does. 

[Turkish]

15 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Racism isn’t just abuse on Twitter.

Rio Ferdinand says football is 'sliding backwards' because of racist abuse online - BBC Sport

Rio Ferdinand seems to think its the major issue. As you stated "The only people who can change that is the social media companies"

[Billy the Kidd]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Yes that was clear when you said you thought he had a point about current levels of racism in this country being the same as the 70s and 80s. Presumably you remember at least some of the period? 

Of course, I was born in the mid 70’s, only a couple of years older than Rio, and I do think he has a point. 

Remember, he didnt say it was as bad as that period, just it was going that way, or at least that is how I took it (where he said “rising to”.

[Billy the Kidd]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I agree I think a large number are thick people posting in the heat of the moment something shocking to express their anger. I support measures that may make them think twice about their actions but the best and most workable solution I have heard is to have an option for verified status on twitter and then allow people like footballers to only receive replies from people who have been verified if they choose to be so. Problem solved then as anyone receiving abuse after that has effectively made the choice to receive it. 

You may be correct, but I’m not on any social media network, other than LinkedIn, which I really only use for jobs and messaging a few old work colleagues.

I wouldn’t really understand or have an interest in how Twitter and the like actually operate at that detailed level.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Of course, I was born in the mid 70’s, only a couple of years older than Rio, and I do think he has a point. 

Remember, he didnt say it was as bad as that period, just it was going that way, or at least that is how I took it (where he said “rising to”.

"The former Manchester United defender said it was "disheartening" to see racism in football rising to the levels of the 1970s and 80s"

Ridiculous claim. 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Of course, I was born in the mid 70’s, only a couple of years older than Rio, and I do think he has a point. 

Remember, he didnt say it was as bad as that period, just it was going that way, or at least that is how I took it (where he said “rising to”.

In what way is racism rising to the levels of the 70s and 80s?

[Billy the Kidd]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

"The former Manchester United defender said it was "disheartening" to see racism in football rising to the levels of the 1970s and 80s"

Ridiculous claim. 

You can read my previous posts on this tonight. Not ridiculous at all in my opinion - he is saying it is rising to those levels. It may not be there yet, but it certainly isn’t getter much better. 

And even if it was only half as bad, it still isn’t acceptable - or do you think it is acceptable?

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

You may be correct, but I’m not on any social media network, other than LinkedIn, which I really only use for jobs and messaging a few old work colleagues.

I wouldn’t really understand or have an interest in how Twitter and the like actually operate at that detailed level.

I have twitter but I have disabled alerts so I only have a look when I feel like it. I have Facebook but I only ever use that for posting photos for family members who live far away. Personally I think a lot of the issues are to do with social media but giving the keys to the kingdom to the social media companies isn't the answer. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Billy the Kidd said:

You can read my previous posts on this tonight. Not ridiculous at all in my opinion - he is saying it is rising to those levels. It may not be there yet, but it certainly isn’t getter much better. 

And even if it was only half as bad, it still isn’t acceptable - or do you think it is acceptable?

I mean it literally is getting better all the time. Social attitude surveys show how much better its gotten in only the last decade or two. No one said that racism is acceptable, just that's its absolutely absurd to try to pretend that we are heading towards the levels of racism seen in the 70s and 80s. That's clearly ridiculous. 

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

In what way is racism rising to the levels of the 70s and 80s?

well, I thought you were following the discussion, about unacceptable levels of racism on social media.

So, therefore it may be around the levels of racist abuse that people are doing on, er, social media.

Barely a game seems to go by these days without some sort of abuse.

It does appear to have been largely eradicated from chants at stadiums (unless you are in Bulgaria, Hungary etc), and simply seems social media has taken that place.

[Billy the Kidd]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

I mean it literally is getting better all the time. Social attitude surveys show how much better its gotten in only the last decade or two. No one said that racism is acceptable, just that's its absolutely absurd to try to pretend that we are heading towards the levels of racism seen in the 70s and 80s. That's clearly ridiculous. 

But social surveys aren’t reflective of the regular racist abuse that happens on social media - they are a reflection of the people that say they aren’t racist etc.

If you think it is getting better, then good for you, I’m not sure I do, I think people feel they have found a platform they can try to hide behind and still behave appallingly.

If love you to go and have a scroll through some of the accounts of footballers, tennis players etc when they start getting 100s or 1000s of these messages and have the conversation with the recipients as to your views of if it is getting better or not…

[whelk]

39 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

The problem with that is anyone can just register a free, anonymous account in barely two minutes. You can delete and ban certain users and their material - and they should - but it won’t achieve much. It’s bad enough on this forum, banning some prat and 20 minutes later an entirely new ‘persona’ is arguing with the same people on the same threads.

 

The problem with SM is it warps people and their perspective on life. I could quite easily delete all my accounts, which I scarcely post on anyway, if I was getting any kind of hassle. On the other hand, I saw an interview with whichever one of Little Mix quit, where she said she was getting loads of abuse, considered suicide (apparently) and only after an intervention of some sort with her loved ones, did she finally delete her SM accounts. 
 

I always treat these ‘I thought about killing myself’ stories with a pinch of salt but the fact that someone would say that BEFORE deleting their Twitter is in itself quite alarming.

That Little Mix documentary was moving. Poor girl. I question how people are brought and become so vile. At least she seems to have come through

[Turkish]

26 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

You can read my previous posts on this tonight. Not ridiculous at all in my opinion - he is saying it is rising to those levels. It may not be there yet, but it certainly isn’t getter much better. 

And even if it was only half as bad, it still isn’t acceptable - or do you think it is acceptable?

It's never acceptable but if you think that there will never be a racist person or racist thing said ever again, especially in a climate where media actively goes looking to find it, then i am afraid you are going to be disappointed. 

[Lighthouse]

15 minutes ago, whelk said:

I question how people are brought and become so vile

A lot of people, to put it bluntly just hate themselves and project their insecurities onto others. I’m sure most of us have been in an unfortunate relationship at some point in our lives, where there was an element of that going on. I’m no psychologist but it’s probably some sort of desire for control, esteem and not to be seen as the bottom layer of society.

 

I guess it’s hard to understand for people who haven’t been there but it’s probably little different to a teenager smashing up a bus stop because his alcoholic stepdad beats him up.

[hypochondriac]

27 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

But social surveys aren’t reflective of the regular racist abuse that happens on social media - they are a reflection of the people that say they aren’t racist etc.

If you think it is getting better, then good for you, I’m not sure I do, I think people feel they have found a platform they can try to hide behind and still behave appallingly.

If love you to go and have a scroll through some of the accounts of footballers, tennis players etc when they start getting 100s or 1000s of these messages and have the conversation with the recipients as to your views of if it is getting better or not…

I think you need to recognise that social media abuse is its own separate thing with distinct motivations, that happens to almost everyone with a profile online. Social media abuse occurs because its quick and easy to fire off anonymous messages to people. That means threats of violence, rape threats, sexist abuse, homophobia and all manner of awful stuff. As someone said earlier its the convenience and the speed that encourages this stuff which is one of the biggest issues rather than everyone still being as racist as decades ago just moving it all online. I genuinely find it quite astonishing that you don't think racism has improved from fourty years ago. 

Edited 9 September, 2021 by hypochondriac

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

And there we go we start devolving into the personal attacks and the weird idea that I am "angry" because I'm typing some words on a forum. Why does how large a population is have any correlation with if someone is racist or not? Discrimination against someone based on their race and skin colour has nothing to do with how many people are in a group. I think it's incredibly sad that you think thay no one gives a shit about racism but I think that says more about you than me. 

There you go again , you probably need a bit of therapy to deal with your anger and bizarre reasoning , nothing we can say will help you until you can recognise your problem . Good luck .

[Billy the Kidd]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It's never acceptable but if you think that there will never be a racist person or racist thing said ever again, especially in a climate where media actively goes looking to find it, then i am afraid you are going to be disappointed. 

And I don’t think it will ever disappear either, just that it doesn’t mean people should tolerate or accept it. 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

There you go again , you probably need a bit of therapy to deal with your anger and bizarre reasoning , nothing we can say will help you until you can recognise your problem . Good luck .

Yes you've already done the bit where you avoid my questions by pretending I'm angry and that I need therapy. It's getting old. I'll try again. What does the size of a population have to do with if someone is racist or not? 

[East Kent Saint]

34 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I mean it literally is getting better all the time. Social attitude surveys show how much better its gotten in only the last decade or two. No one said that racism is acceptable, just that's its absolutely absurd to try to pretend that we are heading towards the levels of racism seen in the 70s and 80s. That's clearly ridiculous. 

I think you exceed all levels of ridiculousness with your obsession with pretending racism has almost disappeared.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Billy the Kidd said:

And I don’t think it will ever disappear either, just that it doesn’t mean people should tolerate or accept it. 

We are going in circles I think because I don't think anyone has been accepting that? 

[Billy the Kidd]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I think you need to recognise that social media abuse is its own separate thing with distinct motivations, that happens to almost everyone with a profile online. Social media abuse occurs because its quick and easy to fire off anonymous messages to people. That means threats of violence, rape threats, sexist abuse, homophobia and all manner of awful stuff. As someone said earlier its the convenience and the speed that encourages this stuff which is one of the biggest issues rather than everyone still being as racist as decades ago just moving it all online. I genuinely find it quite astonishing that you don't think racism has improved from fourty years ago. 

I haven’t said it didn’t improve, I said I agree with Rio that it appears to be getting worse. 

Amd just cos it’s happening to loads of people on SM, still don’t mean it is right, no matter if it is homophobic, racist or just plain shitty. 

[Billy the Kidd]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

We are going in circles I think because I don't think anyone has been accepting that? 

I think we may be going in circles as I genuinely don’t think you read and digest stuff that I have been saying 😂

[East Kent Saint]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

We are going in circles I think because I don't think anyone has been accepting that? 

Yes you are going round in circles , that’s why you should stop repeating yourself endlessly , we get your point , we just don’t agree with it so you don’t need to say it again and again endlessly.

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Yes you are going round in circles , that’s why you should stop repeating yourself endlessly , we get your point , we just don’t agree with it so you don’t need to say it again and again endlessly.

Thanks but I wasn't talking to you. 

 

10 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I haven’t said it didn’t improve, I said I agree with Rio that it appears to be getting worse. 

Amd just cos it’s happening to loads of people on SM, still don’t mean it is right, no matter if it is homophobic, racist or just plain shitty. 

Who said it was right? What I've said consistently is that it's not a football problem it's a social media facilitating abuse against high profile figures problem. Just because the media has decided to focus on it recently and in relation to footballers specifically doesn't change that. 

Edited 9 September, 2021 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I think we may be going in circles as I genuinely don’t think you read and digest stuff that I have been saying 😂

You asked Turkish if he considered racist abuse acceptable. My answer was that I don't know why you'd ask that as no one has ever claimed that it is. Not sure why you think that means I haven't read or digested what you posted? 

Edited 9 September, 2021 by hypochondriac

[Billy the Kidd]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You asked Turkish if he considered racist abuse acceptable. My answer was that I don't know why you'd ask that as no one has ever claimed that it is. Not sure why you think that means I haven't read or digested what you posted? 

Maybe that’s cos your only getting bits of a conversation with other people. Turkish and I were discussing stuff a good free days back. 

A lot of stuff I said it just doesn’t appear you have digested it all, anyhow I’m off to watch Django Unchained, enjoy your evening 👍

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Maybe that’s cos your only getting bits of a conversation with other people. Turkish and I were discussing stuff a good free days back. 

A lot of stuff I said it just doesn’t appear you have digested it all, anyhow I’m off to watch Django Unchained, enjoy your evening 👍

 

I'm sure Turkish can speak for himself but I'd be interested to know what conversation you had a few days ago that led you to believe he considered racism acceptable because I haven't seen any evidence of that. 

If you get time later it would be helpful if you tried to explain which part you feel I "haven't digested" because otherwise it just looks like you're being intentionally vague in order to dismiss what I was saying. 

Edited 9 September, 2021 by hypochondriac

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

 

I'm sure Turkish can speak for himself but I'd be interested to know what conversation you had a few days ago that led you to believe he considered racism acceptable because I haven't seen any evidence of that. 

If you get time later it would be helpful if you tried to explain which part you feel I "haven't digested" because otherwise it just looks like you're being intentionally vague in order to dismiss what I was saying. 

It’s stuff he made up. I’ve always been very consistent. Britain is not a racist country but that doesn’t mean there aren’t racist people in it. If anyone thinks racism will be eradicated forever then they are going to be disappointed. That doesn’t when it happens it should be ignored but the daily hand wringing with endless this that and everything is racist is causing resentment and creating division. People are actively looking to find things that racist now all the time, it’s almost like they want to find it. Whilst there are mugs around like soggy and aintclever who lap it all up shaking their heads behind their lap tops about how terrible it all is then it’ll go on and go. 

[Billy the Kidd]

11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

 

I'm sure Turkish can speak for himself but I'd be interested to know what conversation you had a few days ago that led you to believe he considered racism acceptable because I haven't seen any evidence of that. 

If you get time later it would be helpful if you tried to explain which part you feel I "haven't digested" because otherwise it just looks like you're being intentionally vague in order to dismiss what I was saying. 

I can’t be arsed to go over it again, and I’m not intentionally trying to dismiss you, I actually thought we engaged pretty well tonight even if we didn’t always agree. 

I was being a bit tongue in cheek about you missing stuff to be honest so sorry if that was a bit shitty. We just genuinely see things different which is fine, I’m not trying to change your views just explaining how I see things.

I also think I can understand your views, did you read true whole Rio interview as there is a lot of stuff in there, the couple of lines or so that were posted earlier on this thread aren’t totally reflective of what value he was saying. 

[Billy the Kidd]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s stuff he made up. I’ve always been very consistent. Britain is not a racist country but that doesn’t mean there aren’t racist people in it. If anyone thinks racism will be eradicated forever then they are going to be disappointed. That doesn’t when it happens it should be ignored but the daily hand wringing with endless this that and everything is racist is causing resentment and creating division. People are actively looking to find things that racist now all the time, it’s almost like they want to find it. Whilst there are mugs around like soggy and aintclever who lap it all up shaking their heads behind their lap tops about how terrible it all is then it’ll go on and go. 

Bollocks I made nothing up. You avoided my valid Qs the other day, I literally asked you stuff and you had no response. 

At least be honest about it, I’m happy if I get stuff wrong, we all do get shot wrong time to time. I said apologised to Hyper just note as I got something slightly wrong, maybe you can take a deep breath and try the same. 

Yeah, didn’t think so. 

I’ve never put anyone on ignore since I started on Not606 teen years ago, or since I joined here earlier this year, but I just don’t think I can tolerate you anymore, I tried this week but maybe best I just don’t see stuff you make up. 

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I can’t be arsed to go over it again, and I’m not intentionally trying to dismiss you, I actually thought we engaged pretty well tonight even if we didn’t always agree. 

I was being a bit tongue in cheek about you missing stuff to be honest so sorry if that was a bit shitty. We just genuinely see things different which is fine, I’m not trying to change your views just explaining how I see things.

I also think I can understand your views, did you read true whole Rio interview as there is a lot of stuff in there, the couple of lines or so that were posted earlier on this thread aren’t totally reflective of what value he was saying. 

Thanks for the considered reply and I agree our conversation was a lot more productive than other people who were just hurling abuse. I totally understand why someone like Ferdinand would be upset by some of the abuse he has received online. My problem is that he's probably not the best person to be recommending policies given his clearly very personal experience of being on the receiving end of this stuff. What I consider to be of vital importance is that we don't charge through a load of laws on the pretext of "ending racism online" or protecting children and then find out that its actually all a massive overreach which effectively ends any lively discourse on social media. 

I listened to a Graham linehan podcast this week and he made the point that he doesn't believe that humans have evolved to be able to handle the Internet sufficiently. I'd be inclined to agree with him. 

Edited 9 September, 2021 by hypochondriac

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Bollocks I made nothing up. You avoided my valid Qs the other day, I literally asked you stuff and you had no response. 

At least be honest about it, I’m happy if I get stuff wrong, we all do get shot wrong time to time. I said apologised to Hyper just note as I got something slightly wrong, maybe you can take a deep breath and try the same. 

Yeah, didn’t think so. 

I’ve never put anyone on ignore since I started on Not606 teen years ago, or since I joined here earlier this year, but I just don’t think I can tolerate you anymore, I tried this week but maybe best I just don’t see stuff you make up. 

What questions didnt I answer? You flounced off saying you weren’t going to engage with me anymore now you’re doing it again. Grown men/women/transgenders flouncing around on an Internet forum because they don’t like someone else’s view 🤣🤣

[Billy the Kidd]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Thanks for the considered reply and I agree our conversation was a lot more productive than other people who were just hurling abuse. I totally understand why someone like Ferdinand would be upset by some of the abuse he has received online. My problem is that he's probably not the best person to be recommending policies given his clearly very personal experience of being on the receiving end of this stuff. What I consider to be of vital importance is that we don't charge through a load of laws on the pretext of "ending racism online" or protecting children and then find out that its actually all a massive overreach which effectively ends any lively discourse on social media. 

I listened to a Graham linehan podcast this week and he made the point that he doesn't believe that humans have evolved to be able to handle the Internet sufficiently. I'd be inclined to agree with him. 

Yeah I agree with this, except maybe Rio giving advice. I just think there has to be a considered advice on how to take this, and people like him can add weight to highlight the issues, and that maybe can be a good thing.  
 

Whilst I’m not on SM, I still think the companies like Twitter etc could do far more, and I think they don’t want to go to far too upset the masses. I mean I’m so much as this is a problem with the minority of people behaving this way, and i wonder if the issue is about censoring content which in some ways disabled their platforms and attraction of use. Like i day i don’t use them so could be wrong. 

[Billy the Kidd]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

What questions didnt I answer? You flounced off saying you weren’t going to engage with me anymore now you’re doing it again. Grown men/women/transgenders flouncing around on an Internet forum because they don’t like someone else’s view 🤣🤣

Erm you know well I asked you stuff after I said that, but let’s not let the facts get in the way of your bullshit. 

Night sweetheart 😘

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Yeah I agree with this, except maybe Rio giving advice. I just think there has to be a considered advice on how to take this, and people like him can add weight to highlight the issues, and that maybe can be a good thing.  
 

Whilst I’m not on SM, I still think the companies like Twitter etc could do far more, and I think they don’t want to go to far too upset the masses. I mean I’m so much as this is a problem with the minority of people behaving this way, and i wonder if the issue is about censoring content which in some ways disabled their platforms and attraction of use. Like i day i don’t use them so could be wrong. 

Maybe but I didn't like the lack of balance from the evidence that I saw. It was just a load of people on one side of an issue hammering social media and demanding regulation of things even if they weren't illegal. This bill is an absolute nightmare for freedom of expression and more needs to be made of the implications of just allowing social media companies to decide what is acceptable and unacceptable to discuss online. 

I expect if there really is this heavy censorship in the UK that what will happen is that there will either be a load of smaller social media companies that pop up for uncensored speech or vpn use will just go way up. Some may argue that that's good enough because it will present enough of an obstacle to stop the worst offenders but I would say its a slippery slope. You'll be getting digital rights holders demanding the removal or media from search engines next and then the end of fair use. What this leads to is control of the majority of Internet to a tiny number of largely "woke" and companies who will decide for everyone else what is acceptable to do online and I don't think that's a good thing at all even if the intention to reduce racist comments on twitter is understandable. 

[Verbal]

21 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Erm you know well I asked you stuff after I said that, but let’s not let the facts get in the way of your bullshit. 

Night sweetheart 😘

I think you're being unfair to Turkish.  You clearly don't understand that he's so committed to freedom of expression that he's granted it to his bowels.  I for one am impressed and i won't hear a word otherwise. 

[East Kent Saint]

On 09/09/2021 at 21:13, hypochondriac said:

Thanks for the considered reply and I agree our conversation was a lot more productive than other people who were just hurling abuse. I totally understand why someone like Ferdinand would be upset by some of the abuse he has received online. My problem is that he's probably not the best person to be recommending policies given his clearly very personal experience of being on the receiving end of this stuff. What I consider to be of vital importance is that we don't charge through a load of laws on the pretext of "ending racism online" or protecting children and then find out that its actually all a massive overreach which effectively ends any lively discourse on social media. 

I listened to a Graham linehan podcast this week and he made the point that he doesn't believe that humans have evolved to be able to handle the Internet sufficiently. I'd be inclined to agree with him. 

Your line seems to consist that the only racism are comments made on line , you have promoted this line consistently . Racism is not just a bit of on line abuse it is about lack of equality in all aspects of life . This can be clubs of any sport tolerating racial discrimination or the fact that clubs have not allowed non white people to progress to higher levels in said clubs . In that respect that is what anti racism in football is about , not social media abuse alone but the inequality through out the industry . This is why your constant repetition of the same point , over and over again is sterile .

[Lord Duckhunter]

28 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

the fact that clubs have not allowed non white people to progress to higher levels in said clubs . 

Which club have “not allowed” non whites to progress? If it’s a fact, you’ll be able to name them easily.  

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, East Kent Saint said:

Your line seems to consist that the only racism are comments made on line , you have promoted this line consistently . Racism is not just a bit of on line abuse it is about lack of equality in all aspects of life . This can be clubs of any sport tolerating racial discrimination or the fact that clubs have not allowed non white people to progress to higher levels in said clubs . In that respect that is what anti racism in football is about , not social media abuse alone but the inequality through out the industry . This is why your constant repetition of the same point , over and over again is sterile .

Absolute nonsense. My point has never ever been that racism is solely online, my point is that the abuse highlighted in the media is almost entirely from social media and that any episodes of racism in football stadia is normally dealt with incredibly strongly and I believe that levels of that have improved markedly (certainly from a few decades ago) and I haven't seen any evidence that it is any worse than in society in general. That doesn't mean that minorities in a crowd shouldn't be dealt with if racism can be proven. 

Inequality is not evidence of racism that's ridiculous. What evidence do you have of sports clubs tolerating racism? The only reason I've repeated some points is because some posters are making the same false claims repeatedly which need challenging and also people like you are saying I've said things I've never ever said like racism is only ever made online. 

Edited 15 September, 2021 by hypochondriac

[egg]

3 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

Your line seems to consist that the only racism are comments made on line , you have promoted this line consistently . Racism is not just a bit of on line abuse it is about lack of equality in all aspects of life . This can be clubs of any sport tolerating racial discrimination or the fact that clubs have not allowed non white people to progress to higher levels in said clubs . In that respect that is what anti racism in football is about , not social media abuse alone but the inequality through out the industry . This is why your constant repetition of the same point , over and over again is sterile .

I'm bored with this debate so won't get into anything else, but I can't agree with this at all. 

Player wise, black men make up a huge proportion of the players in pro football - over represented in % terms. 

If your point is coaching / management, sure the % is much lower, but it's wrong to say that it is a "fact" that non white people aren't "allowed" to progress. 

What I haven't seen is the stats of the racial split of the people that have got pro coaching badges. If the number of jobs being given to black graduates is out of kilter with their white counterparts then I think there's a case to answer, but I'm not aware that is the case. 

[whelk]

Troy Townsend was really good pundit on Football Weekly podcast recently just talking football. Hope he doesn’t try to make anything of Chris Highton’s sacking.

shame as was easy money betting against Forest every game