England/Hungary/Racism Discussion (Split)

[whelk]

33 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Interesting piece on Newsnight tonight about systematic racism in this country. The number of young people out of work is vastly higher than white people. False CVs were sent out with identical qualifications and experience and those with white sounding names were more likely to get a call back than the black sounding names. Still, we are a tolerant country and it is all being blown out of all proportion.

What is a black sounding name? What is ‘systematic racism’? More blacks unemployed ergo must be racist employers. Simple huh and no other factors?

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Interesting piece on Newsnight tonight about systematic racism in this country. The number of young people out of work is vastly higher than white people. False CVs were sent out with identical qualifications and experience and those with white sounding names were more likely to get a call back than the black sounding names. Still, we are a tolerant country and it is all being blown out of all proportion.

Yes soggy we've had this fallacy come up in these conversations before. It's a class thing not race and these studies are biased because there's no such thing as "black names". Asked and answered and we are a lovely tolerant nation. Here is another one of your racist dragons slain. 

For example, in his study, the name most-commonly and correctly judged as a black-sounding name was “DaShawn.” This name was also most-commonly given by black mothers with a high school degree or less. Names most-commonly given by black mothers with a college education, such as “Jalen,” were much less likely to be associated as a black-sounding name.

So these names do not always convey race in the ways that researchers have previously assumed, Gaddis said. “Only commonly given black names from lower social status origins are a strong signal of a person’s race. We are sending signals of both social class and race when we use names like Lakisha and Jamal.”

Edited 9 September, 2021 by hypochondriac

[Jeremy Corbyn]

9 hours ago, whelk said:

What is a black sounding name? What is ‘systematic racism’? More blacks unemployed ergo must be racist employers. Simple huh and no other factors?

Do you actually read the posts you reply to?

[The Left Back]

This thread has been running a week now.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had their opinions shifted at all by the seven pages of input?  Has anyone moved in their previously-held beliefs about the topics being raised?

The reason I ask is that, as someone who has spent lots of time following these conversations, it seems to me that all they do is deepen the trenches that people were already standing in at the start.  "Institutional racism is rife in this country".  "No it's not" "Yes it is" "No it's not".  "BLM is a Marxist organisation" "No it isn't" "Yes it is "No it isn't"

Occasionally people pull in some data to the debate to strengthen their rightness.  But it is rarely accepted by those in the other trench. and so it goes on.  The trench gets deeper, reconciliation, or even agreement, gets harder.  Perhaps I'm missing the point.  In which case I'm sure I'll be told.

[Chewy]

35 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

This thread has been running a week now.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had their opinions shifted at all by the seven pages of input?  Has anyone moved in their previously-held beliefs about the topics being raised?

The reason I ask is that, as someone who has spent lots of time following these conversations, it seems to me that all they do is deepen the trenches that people were already standing in at the start.  "Institutional racism is rife in this country".  "No it's not" "Yes it is" "No it's not".  "BLM is a Marxist organisation" "No it isn't" "Yes it is "No it isn't"

Occasionally people pull in some data to the debate to strengthen their rightness.  But it is rarely accepted by those in the other trench. and so it goes on.  The trench gets deeper, reconciliation, or even agreement, gets harder.  Perhaps I'm missing the point.  In which case I'm sure I'll be told.

Fair point. 
I think more pertinent perhaps is the fact that we have 7 pages of people arguing about responses to racism/perceived racism of which at least half portray a pretty high degree of anger at the press/‘woke’ peoples’ reactions and ‘preaching’.

While some of this ‘preaching’ is likely over the top, I don’t recall seeing quite as many angry posts about actual racist abuse received by players at the euros. Pretty sure we didn’t get to 7 pages … or even close.

I’d suggest if you genuinely feel deep-seated anger that needs expressing on this forum about perceived over-stating of/over-reaction to racism than actual racism itself there’s something fundamentally wrong with what things you consider wholly unpalatable in the modern world.

Same applies to the pride shirt thread. How many pages of anger??

Really???

[Turkish]

11 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Interesting piece on Newsnight tonight about systematic racism in this country. The number of young people out of work is vastly higher than white people. False CVs were sent out with identical qualifications and experience and those with white sounding names were more likely to get a call back than the black sounding names. Still, we are a tolerant country and it is all being blown out of all proportion.

Maybe you could have a word with your barber and bairmaid in your local, if they could employ a couple of black people not only would reduce their unemployment stats it'd double the amount you know.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, The Left Back said:

This thread has been running a week now.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had their opinions shifted at all by the seven pages of input?  Has anyone moved in their previously-held beliefs about the topics being raised?

The reason I ask is that, as someone who has spent lots of time following these conversations, it seems to me that all they do is deepen the trenches that people were already standing in at the start.  "Institutional racism is rife in this country".  "No it's not" "Yes it is" "No it's not".  "BLM is a Marxist organisation" "No it isn't" "Yes it is "No it isn't"

Occasionally people pull in some data to the debate to strengthen their rightness.  But it is rarely accepted by those in the other trench. and so it goes on.  The trench gets deeper, reconciliation, or even agreement, gets harder.  Perhaps I'm missing the point.  In which case I'm sure I'll be told.

Isn't that the whole point of why the kneeling is a futile exercise? Supporters have said it is important because it keeps the conversation going, yet its pretty likely made things more divisive and hasn't changed any minds of any real racists that I have seen. 

 

34 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Fair point. 
I think more pertinent perhaps is the fact that we have 7 pages of people arguing about responses to racism/perceived racism of which at least half portray a pretty high degree of anger at the press/‘woke’ peoples’ reactions and ‘preaching’.

While some of this ‘preaching’ is likely over the top, I don’t recall seeing quite as many angry posts about actual racist abuse received by players at the euros. Pretty sure we didn’t get to 7 pages … or even close.

I’d suggest if you genuinely feel deep-seated anger that needs expressing on this forum about perceived over-stating of/over-reaction to racism than actual racism itself there’s something fundamentally wrong with what things you consider wholly unpalatable in the modern world.

Same applies to the pride shirt thread. How many pages of anger??

Really???

Surely the point is that this is clearly a contentious issue. With actual open racism at football there's less to discuss because the response is almost universally negative against those who are racist. Not sure anyone is really angry, it seems the personal insults have come from those on the other side of the discussion. My concern is with the incorrect portrayal of Britain as a racist, sexist and homophobic nation when its one of the most tolerant and open on Earth. These false narratives are then used to push for things we've seen on this thread like racist diversity officers on 80k a year, to erode women's rights, to discriminate against people in the jobs market based on their race and sex, to hand social media companies incredible powers of censorship and to spend precious man hours of police time recording non crime hate incidents. 

So it's not just a case of getting angry at so called anti racism. 

Edited 9 September, 2021 by hypochondriac

[East Kent Saint]

38 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Isn't that the whole point of why the kneeling is a futile exercise? Supporters have said it is important because it keeps the conversation going, yet its pretty likely made things more divisive and hasn't changed any minds of any real racists that I have seen. 

 

Surely the point is that this is clearly a contentious issue. With actual open racism at football there's less to discuss because the response is almost universally negative against those who are racist. Not sure anyone is really angry, it seems the personal insults have come from those on the other side of the discussion. My concern is with the incorrect portrayal of Britain as a racist, sexist and homophobic nation when its one of the most tolerant and open on Earth. These false narratives are then used to push for things we've seen on this thread like racist diversity officers on 80k a year, to erode women's rights, to discriminate against people in the jobs market based on their race and sex, to hand social media companies incredible powers of censorship and to spend precious man hours of police time recording non crime hate incidents. 

So it's not just a case of getting angry at so called anti racism. 

I don’t recognise the description of the current situation in our country at all , not even close . I would spend more time worrying about the slow decline in our democracy, the present govt attempts to dilute the law system to give them a free hand and the continuing growing gap between the rich and poor . Much gnashing of teeth due to shortage of HGV drivers , before Brexit and covid there was a shortage it is just worse now . Cause ? Big business outsourcing to logistic companies who screwed down pay and conditions until thousands of drivers left to get a life . Same firms now forced to dish out 30% pay rises and joining fees .

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, East Kent Saint said:

I don’t recognise the description of the current situation in our country at all , not even close . I would spend more time worrying about the slow decline in our democracy, the present govt attempts to dilute the law system to give them a free hand and the continuing growing gap between the rich and poor . Much gnashing of teeth due to shortage of HGV drivers , before Brexit and covid there was a shortage it is just worse now . Cause ? Big business outsourcing to logistic companies who screwed down pay and conditions until thousands of drivers left to get a life . Same firms now forced to dish out 30% pay rises and joining fees .

It's not a subjective description of the country, its things that have actually happened and that can be evidenced. Luckily I can do multiple things at once so I'm able to care about the things I outlined whilst also caring about the growing wealth divide for example. That's the luxury everyone has as multi faceted individuals. Caring about women's rights for example or racist blogs from NHS chiefs doesn't mean that I am incapable of caring about open racists at the football or closeted retired racists in leafy suburbs of middle England. 

Probably best not to get into the specifics of your example about hgv vehicles as different sources give differing reasons as to the cause. I can also care about that as well though who knew? 

[whelk]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Do you actually read the posts you reply to?

Yes why do you ask?

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

It's not a subjective description of the country, its things that have actually happened and that can be evidenced. Luckily I can do multiple things at once so I'm able to care about the things I outlined whilst also caring about the growing wealth divide for example. That's the luxury everyone has as multi faceted individuals. Caring about women's rights for example or racist blogs from NHS chiefs doesn't mean that I am incapable of caring about open racists at the football or closeted retired racists in leafy suburbs of middle England. 

Probably best not to get into the specifics of your example about hgv vehicles as different sources give differing reasons as to the cause. I can also care about that as well though who knew? 

You are still off beam about racist blogs and you seem to have an obsession with this subject which is unhealthy for you . This will all blow over soon , I would also question “things that have happened and evidenced “ as they seem to be interpreted differently by you . 
The HGV drivers : all agree we are short of drivers , the fact that we were short before has been pointed out by people of the industry . The outsourcing problem has been going on for 20 years or more and applies to all manner of industry from office cleaners , hospital services , power stations etc . The “drivers” of outsourcing are the same : cheaper , transfer of responsibility, single point management etc . Result poorer conditions, wages and job security.

Edited 9 September, 2021 by East Kent Saint

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

You are still off beam about racist blogs and you seem to have an obsession with this subject which is unhealthy for you . This will all blow over soon , I would also question “things that have happened and evidenced “ as they seem to be interpreted differently by you . 
The HGV drivers : all agree we are short of drivers , the fact that we were short before has been pointed out by people of the industry . The outsourcing problem has been going on for 20 years or more and applies to all manner of industry from office cleaners , hospital services , power stations etc . The “drivers” of outsourcing are the same : cheaper , transfer of responsibility, single point management etc . Result poorer conditions, wages and job security.

It's not "off beam" I've read the words in the article. It was disgusting and the only reason I've brought it up again is because of how shocking it is and your poor attempts to deflect from the words in, the blog. It was awful. It's not a matter of interpretation, there have been racists promoted into senior positions in organisations like the NHS and they are dammed by their own words. Similarly it is factually accurate that social media companies are about to be given an unprecedented amount of power online to censor speech that they dislike. 

I'm sorry I don't really want to go on a tangent about hgv drivers. 

[East Kent Saint]

43 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It's not "off beam" I've read the words in the article. It was disgusting and the only reason I've brought it up again is because of how shocking it is and your poor attempts to deflect from the words in, the blog. It was awful. It's not a matter of interpretation, there have been racists promoted into senior positions in organisations like the NHS and they are dammed by their own words. Similarly it is factually accurate that social media companies are about to be given an unprecedented amount of power online to censor speech that they dislike. 

I'm sorry I don't really want to go on a tangent about hgv drivers. 

They are not racists and it’s not shocking and they are not dammed ! You should be feeling totally secure now we have the most right wing government since …… specially with anti woke agenda, replacing anyone at museums, National Trust , BBC  Ch4 , university’s, making up free speech commissioners for Universities and even trying to put Dacre as head of Ofcom ! They failed first time round as no one thought he was any way suitable BUT they are trying again ! Unfortunately for Boris and company they can’t scrape together enough people to form an interview panel as everyone has turned them down . You must be in seventh heaven with all your Christmas’s come at once so why do you keep banging on and on ? We know your views so …….

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

They are not racists and it’s not shocking and they are not dammed ! You should be feeling totally secure now we have the most right wing government since …… specially with anti woke agenda, replacing anyone at museums, National Trust , BBC  Ch4 , university’s, making up free speech commissioners for Universities and even trying to put Dacre as head of Ofcom ! They failed first time round as no one thought he was any way suitable BUT they are trying again ! Unfortunately for Boris and company they can’t scrape together enough people to form an interview panel as everyone has turned them down . You must be in seventh heaven with all your Christmas’s come at once so why do you keep banging on and on ? We know your views so …….

See I can't take you seriously when you call someone like Boris really right wing. It's clear you have clear bias with your political leanings. I'm not a fan of the conservatives or the loony left, I'd much prefer to have a liberal government in charge with a small l rather than Boris and his flip flopping and I'd prefer that you didn't make assumptions about my political leanings based on the caricatures you've made up in your own head. 

That NHS blog article has provoked widespread outrage and it's horribly racist. The fact she cited the works of the likes of Kehinde Andrews-an appaling racist and grifter- gives you an idea of where the article is going. Imagine if I wrote a bloke calling for black people to be uncomfortable your response would be unequivocal. It's clear you treat actions differently based on the race of the victims and that's incredibly racist in itself. 

[hypochondriac]

Anyway back on topic. Rio Ferdinand said this today about racist abuse of footballers online:

"The former Manchester United defender said it was "disheartening" to see racism in football rising to the levels of the 1970s and 80s."

 

What do we reckon? An accurate reflection to compare the levels of racism today to the 1970s and 80s?

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Anyway back on topic. Rio Ferdinand said this today about racist abuse of footballers online:

"The former Manchester United defender said it was "disheartening" to see racism in football rising to the levels of the 1970s and 80s."

 

What do we reckon? An accurate reflection to compare the levels of racism today to the 1970s and 80s?

Jesus Wept. It's never ending.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Jesus Wept. It's never ending.

They won't stop until social media companies are given ultimate power as chief censors online. Anything considered even vaguely contentious will be preemptively banned by AI. One of the people today was calling for the removal of content that is legal but which might cause harm. Shocking. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

They won't stop until social media companies are given ultimate power as chief censors online. Anything considered even vaguely contentious will be preemptively banned by AI. One of the people today was calling for the removal of content that is legal but which might cause harm. Shocking. 

This utter nonsense from Ferdinand doesn't help. It's almost like they're trying to ignite a race war. 

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, Turkish said:

This utter nonsense from Ferdinand doesn't help. It's almost like they're trying to ignite a race war. 

Ferdinand won't even have any first hand knowledge of the 70s. 

[Verbal]

Well look at you two lovey-doveys.  Is there anything you disagree on?  Like who's top and who's bottom?

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Verbal said:

Well look at you two lovey-doveys.  Is there anything you disagree on?  Like who's top and who's bottom?

That sounds mildly homophobic. Didn't you promise your partner you'd stop posting on here? 

[IFHP]

Has Hungary been charged and found guilty yet be FIFA over the reported racism?

Maybe I’ve missed it but can’t seem to recall seeing any punishment ? 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, IFHP said:

Has Hungary been charged and found guilty yet be FIFA over the reported racism?

Maybe I’ve missed it but can’t seem to recall seeing any punishment ? 

The last I heard they, were investigating. I would imagine it takes quite a while for it to be done properly. 

[Billy the Kidd]

16 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Ferdinand won't even have any first hand knowledge of the 70s. 

Well, Rio was born in 78, so not much of the 70’s but he is probably well placed to recall the stuff that went on in the 80’s.

And even if he didnt, not sure why that is relevant - the racism people faced back then was well documented.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Well, Rio was born in 78, so not much of the 70’s but he is probably well placed to recall the stuff that went on in the 80’s.

And even if he didnt, not sure why that is relevant - the racism people faced back then was well documented.

Hence why it is absolutely ludicrous to say that racism in football is rising to those levels. 

[Billy the Kidd]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Hence why it is absolutely ludicrous to say that racism in football is rising to those levels. 

It’s may be me, but I dont understand your point.

I think he is saying that, through social media, the issue is getting towards the levels from the 70/80s, and perhaps he has a point.

I font have a n issue with people using their prominence to highlight such an important issue, and hopefully people doing this will reduce the amount of abuse that goes on.

[Saint_clark]

4 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

, and hopefully people doing this will reduce the amount of abuse that goes on.

Spoiler alert - it won't. Being racist isnt socially acceptable like it was back in the day, anyone who was going to stop being racist through shame already has. 

Now you're dealing with a generation of tech savvy wankers who will say anything to anyone based purely on what will get the largest reaction - and the more attention you draw to it, the more likely they are to carry on.

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, Saint_clark said:

Spoiler alert - it won't. Being racist isnt socially acceptable like it was back in the day, anyone who was going to stop being racist through shame already has. 

Now you're dealing with a generation of tech savvy wankers who will say anything to anyone based purely on what will get the largest reaction - and the more attention you draw to it, the more likely they are to carry on.

Yeah dont doubt it, but i think if penalties start getting stronger, maybe that will have an impact.

This may sound weird, but I’m not even totally sure a large number of people doing this are fundamentally racist - I mean they may be saying stuff in the way that someone says shit about someone who is fat, ginger, big noses etc. I imagine many are racist, but not all - just think some of them say shit out loud as it were without really thinking about it - those things are maybe things that can change through education, people like Rio and others talking about it, and maybe punishments.

The fundamental racists, I’m not sure will be able to change their views, certainly not so easily.

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

See I can't take you seriously when you call someone like Boris really right wing. It's clear you have clear bias with your political leanings. I'm not a fan of the conservatives or the loony left, I'd much prefer to have a liberal government in charge with a small l rather than Boris and his flip flopping and I'd prefer that you didn't make assumptions about my political leanings based on the caricatures you've made up in your own head. 

That NHS blog article has provoked widespread outrage and it's horribly racist. The fact she cited the works of the likes of Kehinde Andrews-an appaling racist and grifter- gives you an idea of where the article is going. Imagine if I wrote a bloke calling for black people to be uncomfortable your response would be unequivocal. It's clear you treat actions differently based on the race of the victims and that's incredibly racist in itself. 

Sorry but you seem to disappeared up your own arse on the blog and Boris , you need counselling to address your anger issues re the white overwhelming majority being attacked by the tiny minority non white people . 
most people don’t give a shit unless they are stirred  up by Brexit or Patel .

[East Kent Saint]

Are Hypo and Turk the same posters ? I think we should be told mods …..

 

 

[East Kent Saint]

26 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Hence why it is absolutely ludicrous to say that racism in football is rising to those levels. 

Another ridiculous response from the forums ultra ….

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

This utter nonsense from Ferdinand doesn't help. It's almost like they're trying to ignite a race war. 

Utter nonsense from Turkish / Hypo helps even less , Ha Ha Ha …

[sadoldgit]

18 hours ago, whelk said:

What is a black sounding name? What is ‘systematic racism’? More blacks unemployed ergo must be racist employers. Simple huh and no other factors?

Watch a rerun of it and come to your own conclusion.

As for the oft repeated argument that people taking the knee or making a stand against racist behaviour are only making things worse, seriously? That shit stirrer Martin Luther King has got a lot to answer for then. Nearly as ridiculous as hypo trying to pretend he is a liberal. 

[hypochondriac]

35 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

It’s may be me, but I dont understand your point.

I think he is saying that, through social media, the issue is getting towards the levels from the 70/80s, and perhaps he has a point.

I font have a n issue with people using their prominence to highlight such an important issue, and hopefully people doing this will reduce the amount of abuse that goes on.

Of course he doesn't have a point. Nobody seriously believes that racism is rising to the levels of the 70s and 80s all it does is devalue the actual issue by exaggerating it to an absurd degree. He would be better served highlighting the actual issues and putting forward realistic solutions that don't involve handing the censorship of the Internet to Google and Facebook. 

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Of course he doesn't have a point. Nobody seriously believes that racism is rising to the levels of the 70s and 80s all it does is devalue the actual issue by exaggerating it to an absurd degree. He would be better served highlighting the actual issues and putting forward realistic solutions that don't involve handing the censorship of the Internet to Google and Facebook. 

Yeah, I think me and you feel differently about this issue, and what Rio said 👍🏼

[hypochondriac]

29 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Yeah dont doubt it, but i think if penalties start getting stronger, maybe that will have an impact.

This may sound weird, but I’m not even totally sure a large number of people doing this are fundamentally racist - I mean they may be saying stuff in the way that someone says shit about someone who is fat, ginger, big noses etc. I imagine many are racist, but not all - just think some of them say shit out loud as it were without really thinking about it - those things are maybe things that can change through education, people like Rio and others talking about it, and maybe punishments.

The fundamental racists, I’m not sure will be able to change their views, certainly not so easily.

I agree I think a large number are thick people posting in the heat of the moment something shocking to express their anger. I support measures that may make them think twice about their actions but the best and most workable solution I have heard is to have an option for verified status on twitter and then allow people like footballers to only receive replies from people who have been verified if they choose to be so. Problem solved then as anyone receiving abuse after that has effectively made the choice to receive it. 

Edited 9 September, 2021 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Sorry but you seem to disappeared up your own arse on the blog and Boris , you need counselling to address your anger issues re the white overwhelming majority being attacked by the tiny minority non white people . 
most people don’t give a shit unless they are stirred  up by Brexit or Patel .

And there we go we start devolving into the personal attacks and the weird idea that I am "angry" because I'm typing some words on a forum. Why does how large a population is have any correlation with if someone is racist or not? Discrimination against someone based on their race and skin colour has nothing to do with how many people are in a group. I think it's incredibly sad that you think thay no one gives a shit about racism but I think that says more about you than me. 

[whelk]

Regarding Rio’s comments this might sound naive but if I was black I would expect to be proud of that fact so while wankers abusing me on social media would make me pity the sad fuckers how woudl it make me suicidal? And if I was that deeply upset by such things to take me to such a desperate place I definitely woudl not have a social media account that was open for any bastard to abuse me. 

I only caught headlines so have assumed he was talking about footballers with his suicide statement?

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Yeah, I think me and you feel differently about this issue, and what Rio said 👍🏼

Yes that was clear when you said you thought he had a point about current levels of racism in this country being the same as the 70s and 80s. Presumably you remember at least some of the period? 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, whelk said:

Regarding Rio’s comments this might sound naive but if I was black I would expect to be proud of that fact so while wankers abusing me on social media would make me pity the sad fuckers how woudl it make me suicidal? And if I was that deeply upset by such things to take me to such a desperate place I definitely woudl not have a social media account that was open for any bastard to abuse me. 

I only caught headlines so have assumed he was talking about footballers with his suicide statement?

I expect its a bigger issue for a younger generation who live a lot of their life online. I totally get how online abuse can make problems feel larger than they are and really you can find almost anything on twitter it's horrible. I'd still argue against those who say it's something unique to football though. Politicians get some absolutely horrendous abuse for example. 

[whelk]

Ok just read what he said and understand now and makes sense. Although must agree hyperbole to say back to 70s and 80s. Doesn’t seem anywhere close

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I expect its a bigger issue for a younger generation who live a lot of their life online. I totally get how online abuse can make problems feel larger than they are and really you can find almost anything on twitter it's horrible. I'd still argue against those who say it's something unique to football though. Politicians get some absolutely horrendous abuse for example. 

I woudl just retweet ‘look at this horrible sad cunt’ and watch everyone else  pile on. Not very mature contribution I know

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

I woudl just retweet ‘look at this horrible sad cunt’ and watch everyone else  pile on. Not very mature contribution I know

Sure but it can't be nice if you're getting multiple death threats or rape threats against your female family members as has happened to some high profile people. As we know some real scumbags online. 

[aintforever]

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

 I'd still argue against those who say it's something unique to football though. Politicians get some absolutely horrendous abuse for example. 

Not unique but I think the tribal nature of football probably does attract the racist types. I’ve been to enough England away games to see what sort of scumbags follow the game. That’s probably why they want to carry on taking the knee, hopefully those types will feel alienated when they see how much support the lads get and stay away.

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Not unique but I think the tribal nature of football probably does attract the racist types. I’ve been to enough England away games to see what sort of scumbags follow the game. That’s probably why they want to carry on taking the knee, hopefully those types will feel alienated when they see how much support the lads get and stay away.

Isn't the major problem online abuse? So even if these scumbags felt alienated by show of support in the stadium why would that prevent them from going online and sending monkey emojis to any black players they want to? 

[aintforever]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Isn't the major problem online abuse? So even if these scumbags felt alienated by show of support in the stadium why would that prevent them from going online and sending monkey emojis to any black players they want to? 

The only people who can change that is the social media companies, hopefully they will be made more responsible for what appears on their sites, as Rio said, they can take down non copyrighted stuff quickly enough, the technology should be there to stamp out offensive material and ban people.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The only people who can change that is the social media companies, hopefully they will be made more responsible for what appears on their sites, as Rio said, they can take down non copyrighted stuff quickly enough, the technology should be there to stamp out offensive material and ban people.

So why bother taking the knee then?

[Lighthouse]

7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The only people who can change that is the social media companies, hopefully they will be made more responsible for what appears on their sites, as Rio said, they can take down non copyrighted stuff quickly enough, the technology should be there to stamp out offensive material and ban people.

The problem with that is anyone can just register a free, anonymous account in barely two minutes. You can delete and ban certain users and their material - and they should - but it won’t achieve much. It’s bad enough on this forum, banning some prat and 20 minutes later an entirely new ‘persona’ is arguing with the same people on the same threads.

 

The problem with SM is it warps people and their perspective on life. I could quite easily delete all my accounts, which I scarcely post on anyway, if I was getting any kind of hassle. On the other hand, I saw an interview with whichever one of Little Mix quit, where she said she was getting loads of abuse, considered suicide (apparently) and only after an intervention of some sort with her loved ones, did she finally delete her SM accounts. 
 

I always treat these ‘I thought about killing myself’ stories with a pinch of salt but the fact that someone would say that BEFORE deleting their Twitter is in itself quite alarming.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The only people who can change that is the social media companies, hopefully they will be made more responsible for what appears on their sites, as Rio said, they can take down non copyrighted stuff quickly enough, the technology should be there to stamp out offensive material and ban people.

The absolutely huge difference between copyrighted material and abusive comments is a distinct digital footprint present for the majority of copyrighted material. That's not comporable to any number of abusive or racist comments that could be presented in any number of ways. Social media companies have no way to manually monitor posts in real time so will inevitably use AI and machine learning and it will be a safety first approach in case they miss anything. Posts will be divorced of any context and there will be mass deletions with any hint of controversy. 

[aintforever]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So why bother taking the knee then?

Racism isn’t just abuse on Twitter.