England/Hungary/Racism Discussion (Split)

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, egg said:

Cheers, I must confess that I don't know about the Yorkshire situation. That suggests that all clubs across Yorkshire were refusing to give Asian players a game. That seems extraordinary. On to football, I hope that we can all agree that young black players are given equal opportunity, the make up of first team and youth team squads seems to suggest that. Why that doesn't translate to coaching and management is a bit of a mystery though. I'd like to see some stats on how many black / asian people who do their coaching badges (Pro ones) get opportunities compared to white people. 

Extraordinary because it’s not true. I live in Yorkshire and know quite a few people associated with clubs or play cricket. Plenty of people of colour playing in Yorkshire cricket leagues. Yorkshire is a bloody big county when One of the main issues is what you alluded to earlier regarding access to teams. Most but not all of the cricket clubs here are from villages and towns with an overwhelmingly white population, so by default the vast majority of teams are white. Go to parts of Leeds and Bradford and there are plenty of Asian and black players but they are a minority not because no club wants them but someone from Bradford isn’t going to drive 60 miles to play for a village team In Pickering where they don’t know anyone.  They would have set this league up based on geographical and demographics not because no one wants any Asians in their teams 

Edited 5 September, 2021 by Turkish

[Turkish]

26 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What colour is the Spurs Manager?

Clubs would employ the Taliban leader if it guaranteed them success, so the thought they would not choose the best man because of his skin colour is bizarre. If they’re good enough they’ll get the job regardless of colour , it’s as simple as that 

We all know that’s the reality but that doesn’t suit the current narrative 

[eurosaint]

28 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This may divulge slightly off topic, but it's still relevant.

Personally I have no issues, and never have had any issues, with people who are of colour, people who are gay, lesbian, transsexual. Absolutley no problem. They don't offend me, I live my life and they live their lives. 

There's nothing wrong with raising awareness of when discrimination happens, not at all (and to be fair it's much better than it was many years ago) - but what I do have a problem with, and many people do, is being told how to act or what to say in order to keep certain sections of these groups happy - not the majority, let me add, as I have a lot of friends of colour who are against what is happening and they feel it's creating more divides - as we are probably seeing.

That NHS article above sums it all up really. This is exactly the waffle which is infiltrating organisations far and wide at the moment. To add some relevance, I was working with someone at work who was terrible. He made so many mistakes, so many errors, I was spending my own time fixing all his mistakes and he was incapable of learning and was taking the piss on the side. I was advised by management not to flag it as I would be seen as racist (he was coloured). That had nothing to do with it, he was just terrible at his job. Funnily enough this guy is still there and he hasn't improved.

I don't want to live my life walking on egg shells in case what I say or do is seen as the wrong thing or out of context. Any decent human being will have absolutely no problem with culture and embrace it naturally, we just don't want it rammed down our necks 24/7 and made to feel racist or homophobic if we dare disagree with one of their view points. Taking the knee is an example of this and it's run it's course now. I wouldn't boo it but it feels like it's creating more tension than good.

That's pretty much how I see it too !

Taking the knee is a particularly important issue for Gareth Southgate but IMHO that has run it's course and he should now become much more voluble on the finals in Qatar where human rights are being violated on an institutionalised (and daily) basis ! There is a racial element in this also as Arabs are treated totally differently to the Asian workers who are being exploited !

Everyone knows that FIFA only sanctioned it through corruption and if they are to be called out on it then a few of the big nations should take a stand and pull out of the competition ! I know that this won't happen but surely if gestures before every match are important to you then you have to include all races (not just black) !!

 

[East Kent Saint]

13 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Extraordinary because it’s not true. I live in Yorkshire and know quite a few people associated with clubs or play cricket. Plenty of people of colour playing in Yorkshire cricket leagues. Yorkshire is a bloody big county when One of the main issues is what you alluded to earlier regarding access to teams. Most but not all of the cricket clubs here are from villages and towns with an overwhelmingly white population, so by default the vast majority of teams are white. Go to parts of Leeds and Bradford and there are plenty of Asian and black players but they are a minority not because no club wants them but someone from Bradford isn’t going to drive 60 miles to play for a village team In Pickering where they don’t know anyone.  They would have set this league up based on geographical and demographics not because no one wants any Asians in their teams 

The Asian players weren’t banned from joining clubs just “not encouraged “ with the Asian population in Yorkshire you would think a few more would make it to the County team . Judging by the way they seem to be treated at YCC , it is no surprise.

[hypochondriac]

55 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This may divulge slightly off topic, but it's still relevant.

Personally I have no issues, and never have had any issues, with people who are of colour, people who are gay, lesbian, transsexual. Absolutley no problem. They don't offend me, I live my life and they live their lives. 

There's nothing wrong with raising awareness of when discrimination happens, not at all (and to be fair it's much better than it was many years ago) - but what I do have a problem with, and many people do, is being told how to act or what to say in order to keep certain sections of these groups happy - not the majority, let me add, as I have a lot of friends of colour who are against what is happening and they feel it's creating more divides - as we are probably seeing.

That NHS article above sums it all up really. This is exactly the waffle which is infiltrating organisations far and wide at the moment. To add some relevance, I was working with someone at work who was terrible. He made so many mistakes, so many errors, I was spending my own time fixing all his mistakes and he was incapable of learning and was taking the piss on the side. I was advised by management not to flag it as I would be seen as racist (he was coloured). That had nothing to do with it, he was just terrible at his job. Funnily enough this guy is still there and he hasn't improved.

I don't want to live my life walking on egg shells in case what I say or do is seen as the wrong thing or out of context. Any decent human being will have absolutely no problem with culture and embrace it naturally, we just don't want it rammed down our necks 24/7 and made to feel racist or homophobic if we dare disagree with one of their view points. Taking the knee is an example of this and it's run it's course now. I wouldn't boo it but it feels like it's creating more tension than good.

What's a friend of colour? 

[S-Clarke]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What's a friend of colour? 

I have black friends, but I've been shouted down for saying black in the past so I reverted to that. That's another example which probably illustrates my point of walking on egg shells/not sure what you can say or do anymore.

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

The Asian players weren’t banned from joining clubs just “not encouraged “ with the Asian population in Yorkshire you would think a few more would make it to the County team . Judging by the way they seem to be treated at YCC , it is no surprise.

there is a large Asian population but it’s very condensed into two or three areas. Yorkshire is a huge county outside of The cities a lot of it rural. When you say not encouraged I’m really not sure what you mean and it doesn’t make sense. I can’t imagine village teams have any need to go on recruitment drives in Bradford, in fact with a lot of locally football and cricket teams it’s a struggle to get in. My son is 8 and we had to try about 20 football teams before we found one with a space for him next season. equally, can’t imagine any Asians in Bradford would have any desire to travel 50 miles every week for a game of cricket with a load of bloke they don’t know when they can join a team on their doorstep. That’s the reality. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I have black friends, but I've been shouted down for saying black in the past so I reverted to that. That's another example which probably illustrates my point of walking on egg shells/not sure what you can say or do anymore.

I’ve got a few black friends but I get called racist if I mention it on here 🤣

[S-Clarke]

24 minutes ago, eurosaint said:

That's pretty much how I see it too !

Taking the knee is a particularly important issue for Gareth Southgate but IMHO that has run it's course and he should now become much more voluble on the finals in Qatar where human rights are being violated on an institutionalised (and daily) basis ! There is a racial element in this also as Arabs are treated totally differently to the Asian workers who are being exploited !

Everyone knows that FIFA only sanctioned it through corruption and if they are to be called out on it then a few of the big nations should take a stand and pull out of the competition ! I know that this won't happen but surely if gestures before every match are important to you then you have to include all races (not just black) !!

 

The taking the knee stance at the beginning served a point, to a degree. But now it's become more of a commercial gesture. You get the big corps like Sky and the PL all over it because it enhances their popularity and benefits their corporate image.

I don't think it's serving much in the way of 'stopping' anything happening as such, it may raise the awareness to a degree...but now it feels like it's having the opposite effect and creating more inflammatory responses and divisions - which is what this is suppose to be stopping.

[East Kent Saint]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

there is a large Asian population but it’s very condensed into two or three areas. Yorkshire is a huge county outside of The cities a lot of it rural. When you say not encouraged I’m really not sure what you mean and it doesn’t make sense. I can’t imagine village teams have any need to go on recruitment drives in Bradford, in fact with a lot of locally football and cricket teams it’s a struggle to get in. My son is 8 and we had to try about 20 football teams before we found one with a space for him next season. equally, can’t imagine any Asians in Bradford would have any desire to travel 50 miles every week for a game of cricket with a load of bloke they don’t know when they can join a team on their doorstep. That’s the reality. 

 I say that because having watched a program a while ago that is the reason they gave for setting up an Asian league !! What have you got to say about YCC and their record ???

[East Kent Saint]

5 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The taking the knee stance at the beginning served a point, to a degree. But now it's become more of a commercial gesture. You get the big corps like Sky and the PL all over it because it enhances their popularity and benefits their corporate image.

I don't think it's serving much in the way of 'stopping' anything happening as such, it may raise the awareness to a degree...but now it feels like it's having the opposite effect and creating more inflammatory responses and divisions - which is what this is suppose to be stopping.

Agreed .

[egg]

36 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Extraordinary because it’s not true. I live in Yorkshire and know quite a few people associated with clubs or play cricket. Plenty of people of colour playing in Yorkshire cricket leagues. Yorkshire is a bloody big county when One of the main issues is what you alluded to earlier regarding access to teams. Most but not all of the cricket clubs here are from villages and towns with an overwhelmingly white population, so by default the vast majority of teams are white. Go to parts of Leeds and Bradford and there are plenty of Asian and black players but they are a minority not because no club wants them but someone from Bradford isn’t going to drive 60 miles to play for a village team In Pickering where they don’t know anyone.  They would have set this league up based on geographical and demographics not because no one wants any Asians in their teams 

Cheers. That would have been my assumption. It's obvious that most people would want to play, and socialise with people that they know and preferably near to where they live. What surprises me also is the notion that a club, or indeed county, would refuse to play a better player simply because of his colour. I can't see that as anything like plausible. 

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

I’ve got a few black friends but I get called racist if I mention it on here 🤣

I’m not sure you would be called racist for saying that, but there is a valid point many have mentioned.

The company I work for, and many prior, made everyone take mandatory courses (I’m sure many on here also do), about loads of subjects, H&S, ED&I etc. The thing that has struck me over the last number of years is the constant updates and changes, one of which have been the term ‘black’ or ‘people of colour’. There is now a big push on unconscious bias and I have to admit it does seem a minefield.  

When I have discussed this with some of my friend who are black, they seem as confused as everyone, however I guess the point (or at least what I took from it) was that surely there doesn’t need to be referencing to someone’s colour. You know, we dont say ‘ oh have you met Dave? No who is he? Oh, he is the white guy who started in IT last week.’ That said, the same would apply to any skin colour, or obvious features, say if someone has ginger hair, a big nose, or are openly gay.

 

[East Kent Saint]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

Cheers. That would have been my assumption. It's obvious that most people would want to play, and socialise with people that they know and preferably near to where they live. What surprises me also is the notion that a club, or indeed county, would refuse to play a better player simply because of his colour. I can't see that as anything like plausible. 

Unfortunately it's true in sport as it is in business , organizations are quite capable of promoting duffers to A. get them out of the way B. Protect them as they are also Masons C. Not even give them an interview due to "it's easier not to go down that route "

PS I don't know what is the current OK term to call er " people of colour " Any updates on that ??

Edited 5 September, 2021 by East Kent Saint

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

The taking the knee stance at the beginning served a point, to a degree. But now it's become more of a commercial gesture. You get the big corps like Sky and the PL all over it because it enhances their popularity and benefits their corporate image.

I don't think it's serving much in the way of 'stopping' anything happening as such, it may raise the awareness to a degree...but now it feels like it's having the opposite effect and creating more inflammatory responses and divisions - which is what this is suppose to be stopping.

Did it? It's been a commercial gesture from the start or at least since football started doing it. The Nike ad with Colin kapernick predates the taking the knee at the football. 

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Unfortunately it's true in sport as it is in business , organizations are quite capable of promoting duffers to A. get them out of the way B. Protect them as they are also Masons C. Not even give them an interview due to "it's easier not to go down that route "

PS I don't know what is the current OK term to call er " people of colour " Any updates on that ??

Coloured people = racist

people of colour = absolutely fine 

🤷🏽‍♂️

[Verbal]

4 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

PS I don't know what is the current OK term to call er " people of colour " Any updates on that ??

'People of colour' is a bit of an Americanism.  The truth is - contra the EDL (Saintsweb division) - you can call black people black, Asian people Asian, Hispanic people Hispanic...and so on. We also don't typically append each ethnicity with nationality like the Americans do (Irish-American, Native-American, Asian-American, etc) - and when we do we invert it (British-Asian, for example), often to make a distinction about birthplace or to distinguish between UK nationals and people with other nationalities

So there are fewer 'rules' around now than before.  The term 'coloured' - used by S-Clarke above (which dates him as a 'British-Boomer') - was actually a term of abuse in Britain in the 50s and 60 ('No Coloureds, No Irish, No Dogs'), much used by Enoch Powell and his superfans, as well asa the Tory party activists who came up with campaign  slogans like 'Vote Labour, Get a N****er for a Neighbour)  In the 80s there was a countervailing demand from some pressure groups to refer to all UK ethnicities as 'black' - an idea that collapsed under the weight of its own stupidity. 

So relax - contrary to the snowflakes, people generally don't get offended unless your intent is to abuse.

[Turkish]

25 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

 I say that because having watched a program a while ago that is the reason they gave for setting up an Asian league !! What have you got to say about YCC and their record ???

It’s geographical and demographics plain and simple. Local league sport tends to be played by people from the local community. As for the YCC that’s a different case entirely as they have a history of being shall we say, questionable views. Still doesn’t change the fact that I really don’t believe these days they wouldn’t pick someone because of their skin colour. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Coloured people = racist

people of colour = absolutely fine 

🤷🏽‍♂️

Although several black people I know refer to non white people as coloured people. They'll be gutted to learn that they're racist. 

[kyle04]

3 minutes ago, Verbal said:

So relax - contrary to the snowflakes, people generally don't get offended unless your intent is to abuse.

Oh really? People have lost their livelihoods for using the "wrong" term, remember Greg Clarke who "resigned" after using the word "coloured" before MP's. Opinion seems to be that he was a bit of a cock anyway, but that event was the death knell for him. That's OK though, one more racist bigot gone, now onto the statues.

[Verbal]

8 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Oh really? People have lost their livelihoods for using the "wrong" term, remember Greg Clarke who "resigned" after using the word "coloured" before MP's. Opinion seems to be that he was a bit of a cock anyway, but that event was the death knell for him. That's OK though, one more racist bigot gone, now onto the statues.

Ckarke didn't 'resign'.  He actually resigned.  And it was for a whole lot of racial stereotyping - hardly something you want in a senior executive running such an inclusive-driven sport as football. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54894864

Also, the reason 'coloured' is taken as a term of abuse is explained in my previous post. It has a nasty history.

[East Kent Saint]

35 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s geographical and demographics plain and simple. Local league sport tends to be played by people from the local community. As for the YCC that’s a different case entirely as they have a history of being shall we say, questionable views. Still doesn’t change the fact that I really don’t believe these days they wouldn’t pick someone because of their skin colour. 

Unfortunately it is true , they don’t get picked just because of their skin colour , it is because of institutional bias against them in the first place . So you can disbelieve it but at the same time it’s true . I saw it at work , the barrier was set much higher for the few Asians (and females )in our workplace than us jolly Englishmen . I was on the suspect list for reading the Guardian , although the Telegraph readers were quite happy to read it !!!!

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Unfortunately it is true , they don’t get picked just because of their skin colour , it is because of institutional bias against them in the first place . So you can disbelieve it but at the same time it’s true . I saw it at work , the barrier was set much higher for the few Asians (and females )in our workplace than us jolly Englishmen . I was on the suspect list for reading the Guardian , although the Telegraph readers were quite happy to read it !!!!

I hope you followed your work whistle-blower policy to highlight discrimination in the workplace? Be the change you want to see. 

[Turkish]

26 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Unfortunately it is true , they don’t get picked just because of their skin colour , it is because of institutional bias against them in the first place . So you can disbelieve it but at the same time it’s true . I saw it at work , the barrier was set much higher for the few Asians (and females )in our workplace than us jolly Englishmen . I was on the suspect list for reading the Guardian , although the Telegraph readers were quite happy to read it !!!!

I hope you took this up with the appropriate people within your organisation to address this issue. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I’m not sure you would be called racist for saying that, but there is a valid point many have mentioned.

The company I work for, and many prior, made everyone take mandatory courses (I’m sure many on here also do), about loads of subjects, H&S, ED&I etc. The thing that has struck me over the last number of years is the constant updates and changes, one of which have been the term ‘black’ or ‘people of colour’. There is now a big push on unconscious bias and I have to admit it does seem a minefield.  

When I have discussed this with some of my friend who are black, they seem as confused as everyone, however I guess the point (or at least what I took from it) was that surely there doesn’t need to be referencing to someone’s colour. You know, we dont say ‘ oh have you met Dave? No who is he? Oh, he is the white guy who started in IT last week.’ That said, the same would apply to any skin colour, or obvious features, say if someone has ginger hair, a big nose, or are openly gay.

 

Oh believe me pal I’ve had quite a few jibes and spiteful comments about having black friends, usually from people who preach about racism all the time 

[East Kent Saint]

23 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I hope you followed your work whistle-blower policy to highlight discrimination in the workplace? Be the change you want to see. 

Didn’t exist in my day , the people to complain to were the problem in the first place ! My colleague managed ok until a type of dementia hit him .

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Didn’t exist in my day , the people to complain to were the problem in the first place ! My colleague managed ok until a type of dementia hit him .

So your example is historical not current then? 

[East Kent Saint]

12 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I hope you took this up with the appropriate people within your organisation to address this issue. 

I was one of the people that didn’t fit in to the new privatised industry ! There were no appropriate people to discuss it with as the whole personal department had been reduced to a couple of low grade people on site plus the people at HQ were totally in line with the new set up. 

[East Kent Saint]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

So your example is historical not current then? 

No less valid for that , carry on with your there is no real racism in the UK agenda , apart from the odd money chant provoked by Sterling .

[hypochondriac]

38 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

No less valid for that , carry on with your there is no real racism in the UK agenda , apart from the odd money chant provoked by Sterling .

Well it is less valid if we are discussing current systemic discrimination in the workplace and your evidence for its existence is some historic anecdote from presumably years ago. The only people who have ever claimed that there is no racism in the UK are those who like to falsely caricature their ideological opponents. 

Edited 5 September, 2021 by hypochondriac

[Turkish]

50 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

No less valid for that , carry on with your there is no real racism in the UK agenda , apart from the odd money chant provoked by Sterling .

Of course it’s less valid. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Oh believe me pal I’ve had quite a few jibes and spiteful comments about having black friends, usually from people who preach about racism all the time 

Mocked for using it as your trump card for validating your opinions.

out of interest have you asked his views on the Hungarian mob in T shirts? Carpathian Brigade or something. Does he consider them fighting the oppression of communism or does he like most of us consider them vile racist scum?

[East Kent Saint]

48 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Of course it’s less valid. 

Of course it’s not less valid it is a fact . So what is your actual position?   
 

Enlighten Saintsweb posters , are you saying their is no institutional racism , just occasional racist gestures incited by players ? Do you actually have a view or are you just a WUM troll as we all suspect? 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, East Kent Saint said:

Of course it’s not less valid it is a fact . So what is your actual position?   
 

Enlighten Saintsweb posters , are you saying their is no institutional racism , just occasional racist gestures incited by players ? Do you actually have a view or are you just a WUM troll as we all suspect? 

Pulled out the troll line again because I said something to didn’t like 🤣

 

My view has been made clear time and again. Britain isn’t a racist country but there are racist people in it. If you think it’s ever going to disappear 100% then you’re going to be disappointed. 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Of course it’s not less valid it is a fact . So what is your actual position?   
 

Enlighten Saintsweb posters , are you saying their is no institutional racism , just occasional racist gestures incited by players ? Do you actually have a view or are you just a WUM troll as we all suspect? 

Given his comment, I'd imagine that Turkish's view aligns quite closely with mine as outlined below:

 

On 03/09/2021 at 18:07, hypochondriac said:

I think there's a moral panic about racism at the football and that it's in the interest of the media to exagerrate a problem that-whilst very real- is not anywhere near as large as some would have you believe. I think the problem of anonymous social media accounts sending abuse to celebrities and high profile persons is a social media problem not a football problem but it suits the media narrative to conflate the two things. I am yet to be convinced that racism in English professional football is any greater than racism in society in general and the evidence I have seen is that it is mercifully rare to hear racist chanting or abuse in English football stadia and when it is it is roundly condemned and life bans are handed out sharpish.

I don't think that taking the knee has seen more instances of condemnation of this sort of abuse. You could argue that it adds to the current culture of highlighting anything racial at any game of football and making it front page news-whether you think that's a positive thing or not- but I would suggest it's the result of this sort of thinking rather than the cause.

 

[Turkish]

29 minutes ago, whelk said:

Mocked for using it as your trump card for validating your opinions.

out of interest have you asked his views on the Hungarian mob in T shirts? Carpathian Brigade or something. Does he consider them fighting the oppression of communism or does he like most of us consider them vile racist scum?

So using real life experiences of people know and are close to is trump card? Maybe we should just believe everything the guardian tell us instead

 

i haven’t asked them about the black t-shirt crew but like me I expect they find them cringeworthy and embarrassing. 

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Well it is less valid if we are discussing current systemic discrimination in the workplace and your evidence for its existence is some historic anecdote from presumably years ago. The only people who have ever claimed that there is no racism in the UK are those who like to falsely caricature their ideological opponents. 

Despite the Govt’s phoney enquiry , that has been disowned by any academic quoted in it as a misrepresentation of their studies , there is still ingrained institutional racism . Witness black prem footballer pulled over and searched as he was driving a posh car (which he couldn’t obviously afford ) and the Black Olympic athlete and her family , pulled over , handcuffed and with their children in the car had  , the car searched ! Crime : black person driving a flash car in London registered in Yorkshire !

[Billy the Kidd]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So using real life experiences of people know and are close to is trump card? Maybe we should just believe everything the guardian tell us instead

 

i haven’t asked them about the black t-shirt crew but like me I expect they find them cringeworthy and embarrassing. 

But isn’t that a really woke comment, tagging on to the media driven agenda?

Honestly Turkish, I’m confused, as no one heard anything those poorly treated, oppressed people of Hungary said the other day. 

[East Kent Saint]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Pulled out the troll line again because I said something to didn’t like 🤣

 

My view has been made clear time and again. Britain isn’t a racist country but there are racist people in it. If you think it’s ever going to disappear 100% then you’re going to be disappointed. 

OK fine we will agree to disagree , no I don’t think it will disappear 100% but I think the institutional racism is ingrained and will take years before people are judged on merit alone . The issue of other bias , old school tie , Masons, who you know will continue!

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

OK fine we will agree to disagree , no I don’t think it will disappear 100% but I think the institutional racism is ingrained and will take years before people are judged on merit alone . The issue of other bias , old school tie , Masons, who you know will continue!

That’s society though. There is bias everywhere. Some companies will only employ people with degrees even if you can do the job without a degree. 

 

8 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

But isn’t that a really woke comment, tagging on to the media driven agenda?

Honestly Turkish, I’m confused, as no one heard anything those poorly treated, oppressed people of Hungary said the other day. 

Finding a load of blokes in their 20s, 30s and 40s all dressed the same to go to a football match embarrassing is a woke comment? You don’t understand what woke is do you 

[East Kent Saint]

13 minutes ago, Turkish said:

That’s society though. There is bias everywhere. Some companies will only employ people with degrees even if you can do the job without a degree. 

 

Finding a load of blokes in their 20s, 30s and 40s all dressed the same to go to a football match embarrassing is a woke comment? You don’t understand what woke is do you 

Nobody understands what woke is supposed to mean , which is the whole point ! Other campaigning phrases such as levelling up and build back better are the same , totally meaningless .

[captainchris]

3 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

Unfortunately it is true , they don’t get picked just because of their skin colour , it is because of institutional bias against them in the first place . So you can disbelieve it but at the same time it’s true . I saw it at work , the barrier was set much higher for the few Asians (and females )in our workplace than us jolly Englishmen . I was on the suspect list for reading the Guardian , although the Telegraph readers were quite happy to read it !!!!

In my life experience your workplace is in the wilderness or at worse in a massive minority of British people and businesses or maybe your opinion of your workplace is skewed by your political and positive bias thought processes - maybe….

Racial discrimination is horrid but practised by a tiny minority of people and businesses in Britain. Taking the knee makes not a jot of difference to the minute number of people who practice discrimination and hatred but fuels their agenda and promotes their cause.

 

 

[Billy the Kidd]

24 minutes ago, Turkish said:

That’s society though. There is bias everywhere. Some companies will only employ people with degrees even if you can do the job without a degree. 

 

Finding a load of blokes in their 20s, 30s and 40s all dressed the same to go to a football match embarrassing is a woke comment? You don’t understand what woke is do you 

Think you are deliberately and conveniently missing my point from today and last time we had a chat.

Enjoy the game 👍🏿

Edited 5 September, 2021 by Billy the Kidd

[hypochondriac]

49 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Despite the Govt’s phoney enquiry , that has been disowned by any academic quoted in it as a misrepresentation of their studies , there is still ingrained institutional racism . Witness black prem footballer pulled over and searched as he was driving a posh car (which he couldn’t obviously afford ) and the Black Olympic athlete and her family , pulled over , handcuffed and with their children in the car had  , the car searched ! Crime : black person driving a flash car in London registered in Yorkshire !

Needless to say I completely disagree with your assertion. I don't think we need to go into the minutiae of each example you've given but let's just say I don't subscribe to your theory of institutional racism. Britain is one of the most tolerant and accepting nations on planet Earth (hence why so many want to come here) and we should be proud of that fact. 

[Billy the Kidd]

11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Needless to say I completely disagree with your assertion. I don't think we need to go into the minutiae of each example you've given but let's just say I don't subscribe to your theory of institutional racism. Britain is one of the most tolerant and accepting nations on planet Earth (hence why so many want to come here) and we should be proud of that fact. 

We are, but that doesn’t mean Institutional racism can’t co exist in certain factions of society

[hypochondriac]

18 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

We are, but that doesn’t mean Institutional racism can’t co exist in certain factions of society

That's true but that depends what is meant by "certain factions." I don't believe that the UK is institutionally racist. 

[Billy the Kidd]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That's true but that depends what is meant by "certain factions." I don't believe that the UK is institutionally racist. 

I agree, i think if you look at the Police, that’s wasnt necessarily institutional rascism, but faction of say the Police had problems with it, and others didnt or less so, same all across society. Largely, racism is a very small minority, and likely will never totally disappear, as people are human and think what they want. I mean we aren’t all Stepford Wives!

[hypochondriac]

14 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I agree, i think if you look at the Police, that’s wasnt necessarily institutional rascism, but faction of say the Police had problems with it, and others didnt or less so, same all across society. Largely, racism is a very small minority, and likely will never totally disappear, as people are human and think what they want. I mean we aren’t all Stepford Wives!

Cool looks like we agree then. Its very small minorities that are racist as most people have said all along. Calling something institutionally racist is imo an excuse to tar every member of a group as racist and do a bit of guilt by association without having to give specific examples. 

[captainchris]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Cool looks like we agree then. Its very small minorities that are racist as most people have said all along. Calling something institutionally racist is imo an excuse to tar every member of a group as racist and do a bit of guilt by association without having to give specific examples. 

Precisely put and is exactly what taking the knee implies, the practice should stop now. Football does not own the outrage the fast majority share about discrimination against all groups not just racial, or black or whatever BLM riot about.

 

[East Kent Saint]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Cool looks like we agree then. Its very small minorities that are racist as most people have said all along. Calling something institutionally racist is imo an excuse to tar every member of a group as racist and do a bit of guilt by association without having to give specific examples. 

Er the police don’t just decide out of the blue to stop someone , they have a profile which they are working to . So I am not saying these institutions are rotten to the core just that they have a bias . It is not the fact that there are a few racists on board but that the system has developed with a bias . Not easy to identify or correct but still needs looking at. I’m sure most people go about their job without giving it thought so we feel ok .