January 2022 Transfer Window

[nta786]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Interesting. I expect we'll be putting most of it into a new keeper with Forster entering the last 6 months of his contract.

That aside, what areas do we need to strengthen?

As others have alluded to, we can pretty much rule out buying a new striker right now.

AM - numbers are good but could do with a boost in quality.

FB - good options on either side. No need to invest there atm.

CM maybe, with only 3 senior players for 2 positions it only takes a bit of bad luck with injury to leave us relying on kids.

Another CB perhaps? Hopefully Stephens will be back by then though so we'll have enough cover, assuming Lyanco is up to it of course.

If we want 2 quality players in each position, then you could argue we don't have a second left back assuming Thierry Small is a purchase for the "B"/U23 team.

Also CM as you say, we only have 3 there but I think Ralph will use Stu Armstrong there should we get injuries.

Also at ST - if we get rid of Long in Jan we would have 3 there too (assuming Redmond, Walcott and Tella are seen as wide no. 10s)

However, I think a GK and extending some contracts will be the focus.

I hope Alex McCarthy doesn't get a huge payrise though; his pay should reflect that of a reserve GK for a bottom 10 side; this is our best opportunity in ages to try and buy a solid GK to cement for next few years 

[Sheaf Saint]

11 minutes ago, nta786 said:

If we want 2 quality players in each position, then you could argue we don't have a second left back assuming Thierry Small is a purchase for the "B"/U23 team.

Small didn't leave Everton just to sit in our B team. He's very much our backup LB and if we were to sign another senior LB ahead of him now he would be back where he was at Everton with his pathway to the first team blocked. Not a chance he would have agreed to sign for us if he knew that was likely.

Remember, he didn't have a pre-season so he's only just getting up to speed and hasn't completed 90 mins for the B team yet. Won't be long before we see him in the matchday squad, I'm sure of it. He's a very exciting prospect. Perhaps not quite at the level of Livramento but not far off.

[Charlie Wayman]

50 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Interesting. I expect we'll be putting most of it into a new keeper with Forster entering the last 6 months of his contract.

That aside, what areas do we need to strengthen?

As others have alluded to, we can pretty much rule out buying a new striker right now.

AM - numbers are good but could do with a boost in quality.

FB - good options on either side. No need to invest there atm.

CM maybe, with only 3 senior players for 2 positions it only takes a bit of bad luck with injury to leave us relying on kids.

Another CB perhaps? Hopefully Stephens will be back by then though so we'll have enough cover, assuming Lyanco is up to it of course.

Funny you should say that as Barca's keeper is out of contract and could move

[Saint Garrett]

24 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Small didn't leave Everton just to sit in our B team. He's very much our backup LB and if we were to sign another senior LB ahead of him now he would be back where he was at Everton with his pathway to the first team blocked. Not a chance he would have agreed to sign for us if he knew that was likely.

Remember, he didn't have a pre-season so he's only just getting up to speed and hasn't completed 90 mins for the B team yet. Won't be long before we see him in the matchday squad, I'm sure of it. He's a very exciting prospect. Perhaps not quite at the level of Livramento but not far off.

Agree he's here to break into the first team, though he's going to be behind Perraud and KWP there.  If we get a few injuries, or we have a bit of a cup run, I think we could see him come off the bench or get the odd start. Potentially even as a LW

[Matthew Le God]

3 hours ago, nta786 said:

If we want 2 quality players in each position, then you could argue we don't have a second left back assuming Thierry Small is a purchase for the "B"/U23 team.

Why would you assume that? Why do you think he left Everton to join Saints? He did not have a pre-season which is why he has been in the under 23s recently for gametime, but I very much doubt Saints will sign another left back and block the pathway they likely used to convince Small to leave Everton for.

Edited 21 October, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Dman]

13 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why would you assume that? Why do you think he left Everton to join Saints? He did not have a pre-season which is why he has been in the under 23s recently for gametime, but I very much doubt Saints will sign another left back and block the pathway they likely used to convince Small to leave Everton for.

Ahhh the good old Pathway bollox again. 

if you’re good enough, you’ll play. If you’re not, we’ll replace or get cover in that position. 

Prime example being Tella. When we had a thin squad last season he was playing regularly. Now everyone is back and we’ve brought in players in his position (Theo / Armstrong & Broja), he’s not getting a sniff. 

Having a thin squad and relying on youngsters (not blocking the pathway), fucked us last season. So if Ralph doesn’t think that Small is good enough / ready and feels like we need cover at LB (we don’t given KWP can play there) then, yes he’ll bring in a replacement. 

[Matthew Le God]

6 minutes ago, Dman said:

Ahhh the good old Pathway bollox again. 

if you’re good enough, you’ll play. If you’re not, we’ll replace or get cover in that position. 

Prime example being Tella. When we had a thin squad last season he was playing regularly. Now everyone is back and we’ve brought in players in his position (Theo / Armstrong & Broja), he’s not getting a sniff. 

Having a thin squad and relying on youngsters (not blocking the pathway), fucked us last season. So if Ralph doesn’t think that Small is good enough / ready and feels like we need cover at LB (we don’t given KWP can play there) then, yes he’ll bring in a replacement. 

Why do you think he left Everton to join Saints? What do you think Saints told him and his agent in the summer? It wasn't to sit in our B team, like he would be if still at Everton.

Hasenhuttl talked about him in terms of the 1st team...

“We have already signed a player this summer with good experience at left-back in Romain Perraud, and Thierry’s arrival now gives us a very good balance and a strong additional option in that position, and this is encouraging that we now have this on both sides of our defence.”

Edited 21 October, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Sheaf Saint]

20 minutes ago, Dman said:

Ahhh the good old Pathway bollox again. 

Only in this case, it's not bollox - it's the very reason he left Everton and signed for us. He wouldn't have done that if he was happy to carry on playing U23 football, especially as bigger clubs than us were interested in him. He is very much in Ralph's first team plans.

 

22 minutes ago, Dman said:

if you’re good enough, you’ll play. 

Trust me - he is and he will.

[Dman]

8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why do you think he left Everton to join Saints? What do you think Saints told him and his agent in the summer? It wasn't to sit in our B team, like he would be if still at Everton.

Hasenhuttl talked about him in terms of the 1st team...

“We have already signed a player this summer with good experience at left-back in Romain Perraud, and Thierry’s arrival now gives us a very good balance and a strong additional option in that position, and this is encouraging that we now have this on both sides of our defence.”

Who knows what we’ve offered him. It could be money. Realistically, long term, you’d have to say he has more chance of breaking through here (a team who’s main ambition is to be above the bottom 3), than Everton (a club with significantly more spending power and a minimum ambition to be top 6/7). 

Currently, he’s 3rd choice behind Peruard and KWP. Which is sensible for a club our size. As I said, I don’t think we’ll sign another as we have enough cover there already (excluding small). 

Similarly, Simeu has seemingly left Chelsea u23’s (one of the best around), to join our B team. Presumably for that exact reason, long term.

 

[Matthew Le God]

7 minutes ago, Dman said:

Similarly, Simeu has seemingly left Chelsea u23’s (one of the best around), to join our B team. Presumably for that exact reason, long term.

Simeu was not talked about as being in the first team by Hasenhuttl this season.

Thierry Small has been talked about by Hasenhuttl in that manner... 

“We have already signed a player this summer with good experience at left-back in Romain Perraud, and Thierry’s arrival now gives us a very good balance and a strong additional option in that position, and this is encouraging that we now have this on both sides of our defence.”

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2021-08-24/announcement-thierry-small-everton-southampton-transfer

Edited 21 October, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[The Left Back]

46 minutes ago, Dman said:

Who knows what we’ve offered him. It could be money. Realistically, long term, you’d have to say he has more chance of breaking through here (a team who’s main ambition is to be above the bottom 3), than Everton (a club with significantly more spending power and a minimum ambition to be top 6/7). 

Currently, he’s 3rd choice behind Peruard and KWP. Which is sensible for a club our size. As I said, I don’t think we’ll sign another as we have enough cover there already (excluding small). 

 

I'd be interested to know where you got these ambition statements from.  The Saints one echoes an opinion I offered (though in a different context) earlier this season.  But I've not seen it laid out as a fact in the way you did.  And the Everton one sounds more like a hope or at best an aspiration rather than a stated ambition.  Not necessarily disagreeing with you on either, but the way you've laid it out sounds sort of bitter.

As to Small being 3rd choice - I think that's only a feature of him not being yet up to match fitness.  I've never seen him play, so have no idea if this is right, but based on views here and Ralph's utterances I would guess he is 2nd choice LB at the club but not fit. Your argument is a bit like saying Stephens is now 4th choice because he has an injury.  If you want to apply your logic I'd argue Small is at the moment also behind Salisu and Djneppo in the LB pecking order and so 5th.

[nta786]

2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why would you assume that? Why do you think he left Everton to join Saints? He did not have a pre-season which is why he has been in the under 23s recently for gametime, but I very much doubt Saints will sign another left back and block the pathway they likely used to convince Small to leave Everton for.

Only because he hasn't really made the bench much or featured in the league cup games but if that is due to fitness then I didn't know that

I'm not advocating buying a left back at all, if that's due to fitness then no problem I'm happy for Small to be given time to get up to speed because the position isn't a pressing issue at all.

I'm not sure exactly when Tino signed but I don't think it was till early August - you could argue he didn't get a "full" pre-season either.

 

Edited 21 October, 2021 by nta786

[skintsaint]

Get Josh Cavallo in. Marketing opportunity 110%.

[tajjuk]

Nketiah scored for Arsenal last night, only his 2nd appearance of the season and is out of contract in the summer. 22, young English promising player, needs more game time and cheap, something we should look at in Jan I reckon, like £4-5 million bid, show him the likes of Tino getting game time and developing. 

[Chez]

when looking at transfers we'd like/need, you need to focus on gaps in the squad and players to be out of contract. Its incredibly hard to shift unwanted senior players due to the wage demands, and financially you can only bring one in, if another leaves. According the keep track of contracts thread, the one year to go clan (focusing on first team players) are:

• Alex McCarthy
• Fraser Forster
• Jack Stephens
• Shane Long
• Armando Broja (end of loan)

So there's your potential gaps. 

However, in light of the clubs policy to do everything they can to avoid players leaving for free (that they want), then the two year contract (which will be one next summer) guys are going to be either rewarded with new deals or look to be sold.

• Yan Valery
• Oriol Romeu
• Mohamed Elyounoussi
• Moussa Djénépo
• Nathan Redmond
• Nathan Tella
• Theo Walcott

So maybe a few more gaps, but not until the summer.

Edited 27 October, 2021 by Chez

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

when looking at transfers we'd like/need, you need to focus on gaps in the squad and players to be out of contract. Its incredibly hard to shift unwanted senior players due to the wage demands, and financially you can only bring one in, if another leaves. According the keep track of contracts thread, the one year to go clan (focusing on first team players) are:

• Alex McCarthy
• Fraser Forster
• Jack Stephens
• Shane Long
• Armando Broja (end of loan)

So there's your potential gaps. 

However, in light of the clubs policy to do everything they can to avoid players leaving for free (that they want), then the two year contract (which will be one next summer) guys are going to be either rewarded with new deals or look to be sold.

• Yan Valery
• Oriol Romeu
• Mohamed Elyounoussi
• Moussa Djénépo
• Nathan Redmond
• Nathan Tella
• Theo Walcott

So maybe a few more gaps, but not until the summer.

Macca signed a new contract recently so this info is out of date.

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, Sheaf Saint said:

Macca signed a new contract recently so this info is out of date.

If he really did sign a new contract when it was claimed, what possible reason is there for the club not to announce it like they do for every other first team player?

[Sheaf Saint]

5 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

If he really did sign a new contract when it was claimed, what possible reason is there for the club not to announce it like they do for every other first team player?

I don't know, but it was reported in the Athletic...

https://twitter.com/dansheldonsport/status/1430493087961337860?t=Q1Z9D0cW17NwMaoabhb8dg&s=19

[trousers]

7 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I don't know, but it was reported in the Athletic...

https://twitter.com/dansheldonsport/status/1430493087961337860?t=Q1Z9D0cW17NwMaoabhb8dg&s=19

Depends which publication one believes I guess... Yet to happen according to this Echo article last week: https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/19644326.alex-mccarthy-happy-southampton-will-likely-renew-deal/

[Matthew Le God]

8 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I don't know, but it was reported in the Athletic...

https://twitter.com/dansheldonsport/status/1430493087961337860?t=Q1Z9D0cW17NwMaoabhb8dg&s=19

I know, but it is a struggle to think of a good reason why the club would not announce it. So makes me doubt it is completely finalised and signed yet. I won't be adding it to FM22 until the club announce it.

Edited 27 October, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Roo1976]

4 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Nketiah scored for Arsenal last night, only his 2nd appearance of the season and is out of contract in the summer. 22, young English promising player, needs more game time and cheap, something we should look at in Jan I reckon, like £4-5 million bid, show him the likes of Tino getting game time and developing. 

Sandcastle Arabia will be in the hunt for him

[Danbert]

https://www.footballinsider247.com/newcastle-united-set-sights-on-ward-prowse/

[skintsaint]

23 minutes ago, Danbert said:

https://www.footballinsider247.com/newcastle-united-set-sights-on-ward-prowse/

Cha Ching....bleed them dry. Last 3 games have showed we can cope without him. Use the money to further strengthen the first XI.

[Gingeletiss]

Gossip!!!
Liverpool will let German goalkeeper Loris Karius, 28, leave for free in January 

[Sideways Jim]

1 hour ago, Gingeletiss said:

Gossip!!!
Liverpool will let German goalkeeper Loris Karius, 28, leave for free in January 

Can see us getting Prince Adegoke in the summer

[SuperSAINT]

 

[TWar]

45 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

 

Exactly the sort of signing we should be making, great age range and probably well priced. I imagine bigger fish will have an eye on him though.

[Roo1976]

On 31/10/2021 at 10:45, Sideways Jim said:

Can see us getting Prince Adegoke in the summer

I think i had an email from him last week saying  ive been awarded $15 million dollars.............

[SuperSAINT]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10165311/Southampton-monitoring-RB-Salzburg-starlet-Chukwubuike-Adamu-Monaco-interested.html

[Dark Munster]

14 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10165311/Southampton-monitoring-RB-Salzburg-starlet-Chukwubuike-Adamu-Monaco-interested.html

Adams, Adam Armstrong and Adamu up front. A Merrington nightmare.

[Saint86]

On 21/10/2021 at 13:23, Dman said:

Ahhh the good old Pathway bollox again. 

if you’re good enough, you’ll play. If you’re not, we’ll replace or get cover in that position. 

Prime example being Tella. When we had a thin squad last season he was playing regularly. Now everyone is back and we’ve brought in players in his position (Theo / Armstrong & Broja), he’s not getting a sniff. 

Having a thin squad and relying on youngsters (not blocking the pathway), fucked us last season. So if Ralph doesn’t think that Small is good enough / ready and feels like we need cover at LB (we don’t given KWP can play there) then, yes he’ll bring in a replacement. 

Tella and Small stand out at B team level as being far too good. We'll see them both in and around the first team this season.

With your dismissal of the "pathway" / youth teams, i think you are someone else who has ignored the impact on administration and lower league stature on our youth recruitment and coaching over much of the past 11 years. Does it surprise you that our academy products have dropped off in quality when we were recruiting as a 3rd tier club, had our coaching staff poached, dropped the relative level of our facilities and available coaching etc. You currently sound like one of those people who think that League 1 saints can recruit and train the same level of 8year olds as premier league saints.

[Sheaf Saint]

37 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

Just me who thinks the main thing we need is a no10? We play with two yet we've lacked a proper one since Tadic. Someone who can pick out the right pass in attack. 

Our options are more about hard work and forcing mistakes. Even at his best Redmond's game is about direct running not subtle passing and vision. Armstrong is the best we have but he's more of the Davis type really. Moi has some vision but it's hard to tell if he's good enough at this stage. None of them are even half as good as Tadic. 

I wonder how Mane and Pelle would have got on if they'd been playing with Redmond, Armstrong or Moi instead. Each week we have plenty of half chances, but our XG isn't great. A.Armstrong has plenty of shots but again, low XG. 

A genuinely creative player would really help the other attackers. But maybe no one plays like that anymore outside the top clubs. It's more about fast direct runners. James didn't get far at Everton, Ndombele gets left out at Spurs as they focus on what he can't do, Pogba gets told he's supposed to be a central midfielder or defensive player for some reason, Buendia hasn't done much yet. Tadic was just utterly wasted by Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes who were too negative for a player of those talents. For me he's still one of the most talented attackers we've had since MLT. 

I wonder if Che could play that role? We know his finishing isn't great, but I've always been impressed with his ability to bring others into play in attack. He's got a good eye and a decent weight of pass on him. Not saying he would ever be as good as Tadic, but he has more strength to win and hold the ball up top than Tadic ever did.

[TWar]

49 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

Just me who thinks the main thing we need is a no10? We play with two yet we've lacked a proper one since Tadic. Someone who can pick out the right pass in attack. 

Our options are more about hard work and forcing mistakes. Even at his best Redmond's game is about direct running not subtle passing and vision. Armstrong is the best we have but he's more of the Davis type really. Moi has some vision but it's hard to tell if he's good enough at this stage. None of them are even half as good as Tadic. 

I wonder how Mane and Pelle would have got on if they'd been playing with Redmond, Armstrong or Moi instead. Each week we have plenty of half chances, but our XG isn't great. A.Armstrong has plenty of shots but again, low XG. 

A genuinely creative player would really help the other attackers. But maybe no one plays like that anymore outside the top clubs. It's more about fast direct runners. James didn't get far at Everton, Ndombele gets left out at Spurs as they focus on what he can't do, Pogba gets told he's supposed to be a central midfielder or defensive player for some reason, Buendia hasn't done much yet. Tadic was just utterly wasted by Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes who were too negative for a player of those talents. For me he's still one of the most talented attackers we've had since MLT. 

No I think you are bang on, easily our weakest position right now with Macca having a bit of a resurgence (although we still need a new keeper). Our chance creation stats are very poor.

[ErwinK1961]

1 hour ago, adriansfc said:

Just me who thinks the main thing we need is a no10? We play with two yet we've lacked a proper one since Tadic. Someone who can pick out the right pass in attack. 

Our options are more about hard work and forcing mistakes. Even at his best Redmond's game is about direct running not subtle passing and vision. Armstrong is the best we have but he's more of the Davis type really. Moi has some vision but it's hard to tell if he's good enough at this stage. None of them are even half as good as Tadic. 

I wonder how Mane and Pelle would have got on if they'd been playing with Redmond, Armstrong or Moi instead. Each week we have plenty of half chances, but our XG isn't great. A.Armstrong has plenty of shots but again, low XG. 

A genuinely creative player would really help the other attackers. But maybe no one plays like that anymore outside the top clubs. It's more about fast direct runners. James didn't get far at Everton, Ndombele gets left out at Spurs as they focus on what he can't do, Pogba gets told he's supposed to be a central midfielder or defensive player for some reason, Buendia hasn't done much yet. Tadic was just utterly wasted by Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes who were too negative for a player of those talents. For me he's still one of the most talented attackers we've had since MLT. 

Nope agree with you 100%. Unfortunately we have too many players there already (that are all average to shite) so we won’t be seeing any newbies until some have gone.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

1 hour ago, adriansfc said:

Just me who thinks the main thing we need is a no10? We play with two yet we've lacked a proper one since Tadic. Someone who can pick out the right pass in attack. 

Our options are more about hard work and forcing mistakes. Even at his best Redmond's game is about direct running not subtle passing and vision. Armstrong is the best we have but he's more of the Davis type really. Moi has some vision but it's hard to tell if he's good enough at this stage. None of them are even half as good as Tadic. 

I wonder how Mane and Pelle would have got on if they'd been playing with Redmond, Armstrong or Moi instead. Each week we have plenty of half chances, but our XG isn't great. A.Armstrong has plenty of shots but again, low XG. 

A genuinely creative player would really help the other attackers. But maybe no one plays like that anymore outside the top clubs. It's more about fast direct runners. James didn't get far at Everton, Ndombele gets left out at Spurs as they focus on what he can't do, Pogba gets told he's supposed to be a central midfielder or defensive player for some reason, Buendia hasn't done much yet. Tadic was just utterly wasted by Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes who were too negative for a player of those talents. For me he's still one of the most talented attackers we've had since MLT. 

Agree, though isn't this partly a symptom of Ralph-ball?  All of our #10s are forwards/wingers; we haven't had anyone you would consider a playmaking number 10 and Ralphs been in charge for 3 years.  But I agree that's a problem, especially as the 2 CMs are generally pretty deep and the full backs designed to stay wide.  TBH I think Vestergaard was the closest thing to a creative playmaker we've had under Ralph.

[Billy the Kidd]

Who is closest to being out of contract in our 10’s:

SA - Jun 2024

NR - Jun 2023

MD - Jun 2023

ME - Jun 2023

TW - Jun 2023

So busy summer next summer & the one after that.

Would have though Smallbone will take one of those places, Theo will not be re-signed after then, so 2 will be gone in 18 months or so.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Moussa was given a new contract, although i dont think he should. Nathan I’d imagine will be extended too.

[SuperSAINT]

 

[tajjuk]

On 05/11/2021 at 09:53, adriansfc said:

Just me who thinks the main thing we need is a no10? We play with two yet we've lacked a proper one since Tadic. Someone who can pick out the right pass in attack. 

Our options are more about hard work and forcing mistakes. Even at his best Redmond's game is about direct running not subtle passing and vision. Armstrong is the best we have but he's more of the Davis type really. Moi has some vision but it's hard to tell if he's good enough at this stage. None of them are even half as good as Tadic. 

I wonder how Mane and Pelle would have got on if they'd been playing with Redmond, Armstrong or Moi instead. Each week we have plenty of half chances, but our XG isn't great. A.Armstrong has plenty of shots but again, low XG. 

A genuinely creative player would really help the other attackers. But maybe no one plays like that anymore outside the top clubs. It's more about fast direct runners. James didn't get far at Everton, Ndombele gets left out at Spurs as they focus on what he can't do, Pogba gets told he's supposed to be a central midfielder or defensive player for some reason, Buendia hasn't done much yet. Tadic was just utterly wasted by Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes who were too negative for a player of those talents. For me he's still one of the most talented attackers we've had since MLT. 

100% agree, said in the match thread that second half Moi was running through on the counter and Armstrong made a run through the middle where he would have been 1v1 with the keeper if Moi could have picked him out but he saw the pass too late and couldn't execute it, whereas someone like Tadic would have picked him out easily. We have one of the fastest strikers in the league but I have barely seen a good ball played in behind for him. 

Tadic was far from his best IMO for the last two years for us, bar maybe a little improved patch right before he left, but you have to wonder whether the atmosphere at the club and the insipid managers we had caused that more than him, he got a new lease of life playing for Ajax. 

We basically need to find a Tadic of like 2015/16 Mk2. 

 

[Toadhall Saint]

6 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

100% agree, said in the match thread that second half Moi was running through on the counter and Armstrong made a run through the middle where he would have been 1v1 with the keeper if Moi could have picked him out but he saw the pass too late and couldn't execute it, whereas someone like Tadic would have picked him out easily. We have one of the fastest strikers in the league but I have barely seen a good ball played in behind for him. 

Tadic was far from his best IMO for the last two years for us, bar maybe a little improved patch right before he left, but you have to wonder whether the atmosphere at the club and the insipid managers we had caused that more than him, he got a new lease of life playing for Ajax. 

We basically need to find a Tadic of like 2015/16 Mk2. 

 

You won’t see too many balls played in behind at sms - a lot of teams come and sit deep as they want us to play in front of them. Maybe when playing one of the big boys or away from home you might get that opportunity.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

You won’t see too many balls played in behind at sms - a lot of teams come and sit deep as they want us to play in front of them. Maybe when playing one of the big boys or away from home you might get that opportunity.

You often will when the other team is chasing the game. Felt like we had a few chances to at villa. 

[Toadhall Saint]

18 minutes ago, TWar said:

You often will when the other team is chasing the game. Felt like we had a few chances to at villa. 

Agreed - but we need to have scored for them to be chasing the game initially most teams come and try to shut up shop. It’s one of the main criticisms of away teams I see on here. I think Burnley surprised a lot this year (and last If I’m not mistaken) as they came and tried to attack.

[tajjuk]

14 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Agreed - but we need to have scored for them to be chasing the game initially most teams come and try to shut up shop. It’s one of the main criticisms of away teams I see on here. I think Burnley surprised a lot this year (and last If I’m not mistaken) as they came and tried to attack.

A more clever/cute playmaking no.10 would help unlock defences like that. It's an issue we have had for years IMO, Burnley, Newcastle, West Ham (of a few years ago) and a few more have played with a low block/park the bus sort of mentality (Wolves also did it this year) and we huff and puff but often can't break them down and they then fluke a goal from a long shot or a mistake amounting to their only attack of the game. 

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

A more clever/cute playmaking no.10 would help unlock defences like that. It's an issue we have had for years IMO, Burnley, Newcastle, West Ham (of a few years ago) and a few more have played with a low block/park the bus sort of mentality (Wolves also did it this year) and we huff and puff but often can't break them down and they then fluke a goal from a long shot or a mistake amounting to their only attack of the game. 

I think Ely, Redmond, and Stu are doing well but would have liked to see us bring in Lookman in the summer or someone like that instead of Walcott to add a bit of invention. 

[Teddeer]

We're not alone in the struggle to unlock teams who play a low block. Just had a look on Brighton's fan forum and they are having the exact same discussion. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

On 05/11/2021 at 09:53, adriansfc said:

Just me who thinks the main thing we need is a no10? We play with two yet we've lacked a proper one since Tadic. Someone who can pick out the right pass in attack. 

Our options are more about hard work and forcing mistakes. Even at his best Redmond's game is about direct running not subtle passing and vision. Armstrong is the best we have but he's more of the Davis type really. Moi has some vision but it's hard to tell if he's good enough at this stage. None of them are even half as good as Tadic. 

I wonder how Mane and Pelle would have got on if they'd been playing with Redmond, Armstrong or Moi instead. Each week we have plenty of half chances, but our XG isn't great. A.Armstrong has plenty of shots but again, low XG. 

A genuinely creative player would really help the other attackers. But maybe no one plays like that anymore outside the top clubs. It's more about fast direct runners. James didn't get far at Everton, Ndombele gets left out at Spurs as they focus on what he can't do, Pogba gets told he's supposed to be a central midfielder or defensive player for some reason, Buendia hasn't done much yet. Tadic was just utterly wasted by Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes who were too negative for a player of those talents. For me he's still one of the most talented attackers we've had since MLT. 

Don’t wholly disagree with this, but I do think it’s component of a wider problem with how we set-up in attack time after time. I’ve watched carefully and what I see is a very flat front four, everyone looking to wait on the shoulder of a defender but the pass is not there and if it does come there’s no runner. I loved Armstrongs goal at the weekend - why? - because he did something we rarely see by running from behind the front line onto a lose ball and taking a (belter of a) shot. This comes down to coaching and how our 4222 system transitions into attack in the final third…it needs improving because it’s at the heart of why we’re not scoring many IMHO.

[TWar]

22 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

Maybe, but we go 1-0 up quite often. It's then that a Tadic type is most dangerous in helping us kill off games. We don't take advantage on the break enough when the other team are going for an equaliser. 

Only real chances v Villa were the free kick and header that was well saved. We didn't exploit space near well enough. Broja, Armstrong, Adams are all capable if we're creating decent chances. Maybe not 20+ goals capable, but certaintly double figures each.

Stu from the corner was for me the best chance of the game. He drills that back across the 6 yard box it probably goes in, or he takes a touch and tries to beat the keeper, I'd say 50/50 he manages it. JWP had a strike from outside the box that was very close as well.

[Sheaf Saint]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

Stu from the corner was for me the best chance of the game. He drills that back across the 6 yard box it probably goes in, or he takes a touch and tries to beat the keeper, I'd say 50/50 he manages it. JWP had a strike from outside the box that was very close as well.

Don't forget as well the move that led to the FK for Ché's header chance. Arma would have been clean through for a shot if he hadn't been cynically taken out because, let's face it, concrete boots Targett wasn't going to catch him.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Don't forget as well the move that led to the FK for Ché's header chance. Arma would have been clean through for a shot if he hadn't been cynically taken out because, let's face it, concrete boots Targett wasn't going to catch him.

Agreed. Also the move where Armstrong was clean through on the break with Moi and Moi couldn't find him.

I think Armstrong is about to absolutely explode into life goalscoring-wise. He gets so many good chances and his pace is ridiculous. 

Edited 9 November, 2021 by TWar

[Verbal Kint]

23 hours ago, TWar said:

Agreed. Also the move where Armstrong was clean through on the break with Moi and Moi couldn't find him.

I think Armstrong is about to absolutely explode into life goalscoring-wise. He gets so many good chances and his pace is ridiculous. 

He's getting good chances and failing to take them. You don't think that suggests he's just a poor finisher? Why will he suddenly start scoring for fun? His attempts at Watford were terrible - no composure at all. From what we've seen so far his approach to finishing seems to be to just hit the ball as hard as he can. I don't think that will translate to a lot of goals in this league.

Hopefully that goal on Friday calms him down significantly and he starts showing better composure in crucial moments, as without it he will continue to struggle. He has pace but his all round game is nowhere near as good as Che's, so if he isn't scoring goals he isn't going to be contributing much apart from pressing.

I think Broja is a better player already and undoubtedly has far greater potential. He will be a 60 million+ player in a couple of seasons scoring 20+ a season, whilst Armstrong will still be with us struggling to hit double figures

[TWar]

8 minutes ago, Verbal Kint said:

He's getting good chances and failing to take them. You don't think that suggests he's just a poor finisher? Why will he suddenly start scoring for fun? His attempts at Watford were terrible - no composure at all. From what we've seen so far his approach to finishing seems to be to just hit the ball as hard as he can. I don't think that will translate to a lot of goals in this league.

Hopefully that goal on Friday calms him down significantly and he starts showing better composure in crucial moments, as without it he will continue to struggle. He has pace but his all round game is nowhere near as good as Che's, so if he isn't scoring goals he isn't going to be contributing much apart from pressing.

I think Broja is a better player already and undoubtedly has far greater potential. He will be a 60 million+ player in a couple of seasons scoring 20+ a season, whilst Armstrong will still be with us struggling to hit double figures

I think sometimes strikers go on baron runs, things don't work out, they get in their own head etc. It happens to the best of them. If they start looking completely anonymous in games thats when you should worry, if they keep getting a tonne of chances and don't put them away then I think at some point that luck will turn. You see it time and time again.

He doesn't really play the same role as Che imo, they are pretty much opposed in every way which is why they are a good pair. One is really fast, smart runner, very two footed, and in his previous role a pretty good finisher (form will come in my opinion), the other is is strong, intelligent, and an excellent passer as well as being very powerful as a runner. I have faith both will be great together as soon as Armstrong's finishing gets back to its level he exhibited previously. He has put away two great finishes already this season so I am hopeful personally.

Broja is good, but way way overrated on here unfortunately. He is a good "fox in the box" who gets the ball in decent spots and his finishing is good but he adds little else tbh. He doesn't drop deep and spread play like Armstrong does, he doesn't have the power which Che does, and he can't really dribble like the other two. Firm player, but more an impact sub for us in my opinion. If he goes for £60m+ I'd be very shocked personally. He is also tall and can head the ball which is handy when we are chasing the game and need a different option, last season when we wanted that we would have Vestergaard pretend to be a striker for the last 5 mins when chasing a game, nice to have an actual striker provide that change of pace now.

Edited 10 November, 2021 by TWar