Thierry Small

[Ex Lion Tamer]

On 25/08/2021 at 17:49, qwertyell said:

Or this season's Champions League, as Young Boys won their play off last night (Jankewitz on the bench - made his first team debut last week).

 

He played for the youth team last week and has only played half a game in the cup for the first team. He is making the bench for Champions League ties but not League games, suggesting he's only there because it's a larger bench

[Master Bates]

Everton reject £1.5m bid for Theirry Small. They want £5m.

Small joined without a fee having been agreed.

[Billy the Kidd]

It may go to tribunal in that case, not sure they’d get £5m though 

[VectisSaint]

20 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

It may go to tribunal in that case, not sure they’d get £5m though 

It will go to tribunal if a fee cannot be agreed between the clubs. It is not a transfer fee it is a development compensation fee, because Small was a youth free agent. Very unlikely that tribunal will set the fee as high as £5m, Saints know that and are trying to second guess the tribunal outcome. Seems to me they may as well let tribunal decide if the valuations of the two clubs are this far apart.

[Badger]

8 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

It will go to tribunal if a fee cannot be agreed between the clubs. It is not a transfer fee it is a development compensation fee, because Small was a youth free agent. Very unlikely that tribunal will set the fee as high as £5m, Saints know that and are trying to second guess the tribunal outcome. Seems to me they may as well let tribunal decide if the valuations of the two clubs are this far apart.

Anyone think the big club (even the Dugout Pioneers) bias will have a weighting in the setting of the fee ?

[SuperSAINT]

Starts for the B Team today.

[SNSUN]

Quick game before Sheffield Utd then? Maybe he’ll be subbed off early.

[Sheaf Saint]

On 25/08/2021 at 12:55, Sheaf Saint said:

OK I get you. I've not read the same as you in that regard, but on his own Instagram post he said he wanted to thank all the Everton fans for their support  over the years "and during this tough period despite inaccurate speculation".

Make of that what you will I guess. Hopefully I'll be able to get some more info from my nephew, who knows him well.

Finally caught up with my nephew today at a family gathering and had a chance to ask about this. Apparently he had told Everton months ago that he was unhappy and wasn't going to sign the pro contract offered to him, but they wanted to keep him on his scholarship anyway. The rumours put out about him having a bad attitude and refusing to train would appear to be a case of the club trying to gloss over the fact they had lost one of their brightest academy prospects, to placate the fans. I have no difficulty believing this because we've seen Saints do exactly the same thing with players we have sold in recent years.

[JRM]

9 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Finally caught up with my nephew today at a family gathering and had a chance to ask about this. Apparently he had told Everton months ago that he was unhappy and wasn't going to sign the pro contract offered to him, but they wanted to keep him on his scholarship anyway. The rumours put out about him having a bad attitude and refusing to train would appear to be a case of the club trying to gloss over the fact they had lost one of their brightest academy prospects, to placate the fans. I have no difficulty believing this because we've seen Saints do exactly the same thing with players we have sold in recent years.

Did he say why Small was so unhappy at Everton? Suppose its a bit like Jankewitz with us, decided he wanted to go and the manager isn't exactly going to give him a chance. 

Hopefully he gets his match fitness over the next few weeks as his "pre season" , doubt we'll see him with the first team for a bit. 

[LiberalCommunist]

He couldn't see a pathway to the first team. As he thought he was progressing well, they signed another player in his position, who was widely regarded as not good enough. So frustrated by this, he set the cogs in motion. 

Read something like that on the Everton forum some weeks back. A few of them stuck up for him, while the others did the usual insults to one who leaves. 

[Billy the Kidd]

On 17/09/2021 at 17:39, LiberalCommunist said:

Glad they are on his back already. It will magnify all his mistakes. 

Should make the coming weeks a little more interesting. 

 

On 17/09/2021 at 18:05, LiberalCommunist said:

Because he's a cunt. 

Is that good enough reason for you? Or are you one on of your crusades again today?

 

 

1 hour ago, LiberalCommunist said:

He couldn't see a pathway to the first team. As he thought he was progressing well, they signed another player in his position, who was widely regarded as not good enough. So frustrated by this, he set the cogs in motion. 

Read something like that on the Everton forum some weeks back. A few of them stuck up for him, while the others did the usual insults to one who leaves. 

🤔

[LiberalCommunist]

Might have to take an injunction out on you. Can you try and get a girl friend or a hobby in the coming weeks........

[Billy the Kidd]

Deleted. 

Edited 25 September, 2021 by Billy the Kidd

[Billy the Kidd]

3 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

Might have to take an injunction out on you. Can you try and get a girl friend or a hobby in the coming weeks........

I tried to DM you but cant, assume maybe as youre not paid up.

Anyhow, just wanted to sort out what ever it is ive done to piss you off, but never mind, I’m happy to keep posting, if you want to engage then great, if not ignore me!

[Sheaf Saint]

9 hours ago, JRM said:

Did he say why Small was so unhappy at Everton? 

Not directly, but it was obviously to do with progression to the first team.

[Matthew Le God]

15 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Not directly, but it was obviously to do with progression to the first team.

He is their youngest ever first team player with a debut at 16 years old, so he clearly had a pathway at Everton ahead of most players his age. He has only just turned 17 last month, so was hardly being stifled.

Edited 25 September, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Sheaf Saint]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He is their youngest ever first team player with a debut at 16 years old, so he clearly had a pathway at Everton ahead of most players his age. He has only just turned 17 last month, so was hardly being stifled.

Looking back through the records, he never made the bench again after his debut in the FA cup in Jan. Everton, like us, had a lot of injuries in the second half of last season and had a lot of youth team players (including my nephew) on the bench most weeks, but he didn't feature again. 

They had another young LB - Nkonkou - who was ever-present on the bench, but he wasn't even trusted to start when Digne was injured. Ancellotti preferred to play one of his CBs there instead. So his immediate pathway to the first team was pretty much blocked off. 

However, Ancellotti then left, and Nkonkou has gone out on loan for the season, so had he stayed things might have been different. But Everton's loss is our gain I suppose.

[The Cat]

9 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Looking back through the records, he never made the bench again after his debut in the FA cup in Jan. Everton, like us, had a lot of injuries in the second half of last season and had a lot of youth team players (including my nephew) on the bench most weeks, but he didn't feature again. 

They had another young LB - Nkonkou - who was ever-present on the bench, but he wasn't even trusted to start when Digne was injured. Ancellotti preferred to play one of his CBs there instead. So his immediate pathway to the first team was pretty much blocked off. 

However, Ancellotti then left, and Nkonkou has gone out on loan for the season, so had he stayed things might have been different. But Everton's loss is our gain I suppose.

Thanks for the update.

How's your nephew getting on this season?

[Sheaf Saint]

11 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Thanks for the update.

How's your nephew getting on this season?

He broke his ankle and suffered ligament damage while captaining the U18s in the FA Youth Cup in April, and he missed pre-season. Only just back to full training now and due to play a few games for the U23s over the next few weeks to see if he's ready to return to training with the first team.

He's been doing a lot of upper body work in the gym while his ankle was recovering and he's bulked out a lot. And at 6'6" he is what people would describe in this day and age as 'a bit of a unit'.

[The Cat]

5 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

He broke his ankle and suffered ligament damage while captaining the U18s in the FA Youth Cup in April, and he missed pre-season. Only just back to full training now and due to play a few games for the U23s over the next few weeks to see if he's ready to return to training with the first team.

He's been doing a lot of upper body work in the gym while his ankle was recovering and he's bulked out a lot. And at 6'6" he is what people would describe in this day and age as 'a bit of a unit'.

Oh, that's a bit crap. Glad he's on the mend. Hope he stays fit and gets some games this season.

[Minsk]

2 goals in the last 2 games (1 for B Team, 1 for U21s), and an assist to boot.

Can I be the first to complain about Ralph not yet playing him as a 10? He could add some attacking threat ahead of KWP, or even Perraud, or something. Something similar to Bale about him, or something. Madness Ralph hasn't picked him for the first team yet....... 🙄😉

[LuckyNumber7]

He's actually got 3 in 3 as he's scored in the last two PL2 games, as well as last night!

[Minsk]

15 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

He's actually got 3 in 3 as he's scored in the last two PL2 games, as well as last night!

Even more reason to throw him straight in as a 10 against Norwich then!!

[The Left Back]

I've only seen the briefest of highlights but Small looks like the real deal to me.  He's got pace, power, technical ability and a fearless Tino swagger.  Looking forward to seeing him get a chance in the first team soon.  

As you may have guessed from my user name I've got a soft spot for left backs having played there myself.  And I've been privileged to watch more than my fair share of excellent ones bred and bought by Saints.  The first in my time was David Peach and since then it's been pretty much an endless supply of quality and character.  Personal favourites since then include Dennis, Kenna, Bridge and Bertrand.    I haven't even mentioned Bale and Shaw, and Benali is a legend (though not as good at football as these others). Let's hope Small keeps the tradition going.

I've run out of posts for the day @spyinthesky but yes I liked Statham too - the others you mentioned were before my time I think

Edited 10 November, 2021 by The Left Back

[spyinthesky]

8 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

I've only seen the briefest of highlights but Small looks like the real deal to me.  He's got pace, power, technical ability and a fearless Tino swagger.  Looking forward to seeing him get a chance in the first team soon.  

As you may have guessed from my user name I've got a soft spot for left backs having played there myself.  And I've been privileged to watch more than my fair share of excellent ones bred and bought by Saints.  The first in my time was David Peach and since then it's been pretty much an endless supply of quality and character.  Personal favourites since then include Dennis, Kenna, Bridge and Bertrand.    I haven't even mentioned Bale and Shaw, and Benali is a legend (though not as good at football as these others). Let's hope Small keeps the tradition going.

What about Tommy Traynor and our local lad, Roger Fry, plus Derek Statham who. I reckon, was a very decent left back for Saints?

[The Cat]

Yes it's only clips but he looks like he has the lot, especially going forward. Pace, power, technique. Puts in a good cross too.

I'd love to see him play live just to get a sense of what the other side of his game is like. Might have to wait a couple of months until the FA Cup unless they put any U23 games on at St Mary's.

 

[Turkish]

On 25/09/2021 at 19:44, Sheaf Saint said:

He broke his ankle and suffered ligament damage while captaining the U18s in the FA Youth Cup in April, and he missed pre-season. Only just back to full training now and due to play a few games for the U23s over the next few weeks to see if he's ready to return to training with the first team.

He's been doing a lot of upper body work in the gym while his ankle was recovering and he's bulked out a lot. And at 6'6" he is what people would describe in this day and age as 'a bit of a unit'.

Is he is the same team as Danny Mills son? He’s also a youth team player at Everton 

[Sheaf Saint]

56 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Is he is the same team as Danny Mills son? He’s also a youth team player at Everton 

They are pretty much the same age so would have played together at various stages throughout their time at the academy. Mills was only promoted to the U23s towards the end of last season, by which time Tyler was already injured, but they both played in the 3-2 win against City U23s on Saturday.

https://www.footballinsider247.com/he-lives-with-my-son-exclusive-mills-verdict-on-everton-starlet-thierry-small/

 

[david in sweden]

17 hours ago, Minsk said:

Even more reason to throw him straight in as a 10 against Norwich then!!

Norwich - theoretically the weakest side in the league, but I bet he'd like to play against Liverpool on the 27th ... 

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

First time I've seen him play live was the game against Crawley earlier this week. He looked very good going forward, keen to overlap, not afraid to put in a challenge in when defending and willing to run a lot as our full backs are expected to get high up the pitch but still get back and defend. He was right in front of us in the first half and he was constantly talking and cajoling the back line to be better, which was impressive. I agree with comment about swagger someone mentioned above and he very much reminded me of when Ryan Bertrand first rocked up at SMS: never ending energy to get up and down the line, decent quality when going forward and defensively pretty good too. It was only a B team game vs a poor Crawley team but you could see he was way above that level already.

[JRM]

14 hours ago, The Cat said:

Yes it's only clips but he looks like he has the lot, especially going forward. Pace, power, technique. Puts in a good cross too.

I'd love to see him play live just to get a sense of what the other side of his game is like. Might have to wait a couple of months until the FA Cup unless they put any U23 games on at St Mary's.

 

Get yourself over to Totton mate , good little set up there for watching the B team. Would be good to get a minnow in 3rd round of the FA Cup though to give some of these lads 1st team experience. 

Edited 11 November, 2021 by JRM

[saintwbu]

On the highlights video of his goal the other night you can hear him screaming for the ball he eventually gets back, when he’s first released it much earlier in the clip, so not surprising to hear he was bossing the back line all night. He really celebrates all his goals too from what i’ve seen, which I love, he seems really happy even playing at that level even though he’s already had a taste of top level football previously. I’m excited for him to eventually step up, I get the impression it won’t phase him, his initial interview suggested a very confident character.

Edited 11 November, 2021 by saintwbu

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

Looks like Ralph may agree:

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/ralph-hasenhuttl-thierry-small-southampton-6188751

Edited 11 November, 2021 by Ivan Katalinic's 'tache

[Charlie Wayman]

We need to slow down a bit on our expectations of Small, there was only the odd glimpse of the lad on the video highlights and that's when he scored his goal.

As somebody above commented it is best to watch these lads playing live to form sound judgements. Other players shone in the Crawley match as well especially Payne, Mitchell and Olaigbe and these lads and Simeu have starred in previous games. Payne and Olaigbe have been doing well lately and are catching the eye.

I hope these lads are beginning to catch Ralph's eye so that next summer he has a headache over which of them if any should step up to the first team squad. Is it to much to hope that some of the current first team squad fringe players could be looking over their shoulders nervously?

On the other hand we have been along this path before with young players..

[WALK DMC]

4 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

We need to slow down a bit on our expectations of Small, there was only the odd glimpse of the lad on the video highlights and that's when he scored his goal.

As somebody above commented it is best to watch these lads playing live to form sound judgements. Other players shone in the Crawley match as well especially Payne, Mitchell and Olaigbe and these lads and Simeu have starred in previous games. Payne and Olaigbe have been doing well lately and are catching the eye.

I hope these lads are beginning to catch Ralph's eye so that next summer he has a headache over which of them if any should step up to the first team squad. Is it to much to hope that some of the current first team squad fringe players could be looking over their shoulders nervously?

On the other hand we have been along this path before with young players..

You're right that we need to carefully consider promoting young players into the first team, but ............. 

I remember my reaction before the Everton game when I heard that KWP had been replaced by a complete novice in Tino. I thought Ralph had lost his marbles or that Chelsea had inserted a strange clause in the contract. Three months later and Tino is one of our best players and has deservedly kept his place.  

If they're good enough, then play them. The biggest challenge has is that full back is probably the area of our team with the most depth so less likely to be opportunities in the very near future. I also feel sorry for poor old Perraud who hasn't had bad performances, but KWP is deservedly keeping him out at the moment. The interesting decision will be when Ralph has to decide between Perraud & Small; we'll know how well thought of Small is then. 

Great dilemmas to have though .... 

[beancounter saint]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

We need to slow down a bit on our expectations of Small, there was only the odd glimpse of the lad on the video highlights and that's when he scored his goal.

As somebody above commented it is best to watch these lads playing live to form sound judgements. Other players shone in the Crawley match as well especially Payne, Mitchell and Olaigbe and these lads and Simeu have starred in previous games. Payne and Olaigbe have been doing well lately and are catching the eye.

I hope these lads are beginning to catch Ralph's eye so that next summer he has a headache over which of them if any should step up to the first team squad. Is it to much to hope that some of the current first team squad fringe players could be looking over their shoulders nervously?

On the other hand we have been along this path before with young players..

I've only seen the B team live once, a very dominant win against Villa a couple of weeks ago. Small and quite a few others looked good but for me it was Simeu that really stood out as a strong and vocal presence. I do think you have to pace things bringing through young CBs though as, like keepers, any mistakes do tend to come under the spotlight.

[Turkish]

I suspect we'll end up selling Liveramento in 18 months time, KWP will move back to right back and Small will come in as left back.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I suspect we'll end up selling Liveramento in 18 months time, KWP will move back to right back and Small will come in as left back.

Who would replace Small in the #10 role at that point?

[WALK DMC]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

I suspect we'll end up selling Liveramento in 18 months time, KWP will move back to right back and Small will come in as left back.

Do you think that if we got a big enough offer (including sell on % to Chelsea) and with potentially ready made replacements that we could sell sooner ?   (i.e. next summer).   For example, Man U need an attacking right back/RWB. 

[Sheaf Saint]

10 minutes ago, WALK DMC said:

Do you think that if we got a big enough offer (including sell on % to Chelsea) and with potentially ready made replacements that we could sell sooner ?   (i.e. next summer).   For example, Man U need an attacking right back/RWB. 

It's not out of the question I guess, but it would have to be an eye-watering offer we couldn't refuse for us to sell after one year.

Man U paid us £30m for Luke Shaw when he was about the same age, and IMO Tino is a more complete player already than Shaw was at that point. 

[The Cat]

7 hours ago, JRM said:

Get yourself over to Totton mate , good little set up there for watching the B team. Would be good to get a minnow in 3rd round of the FA Cup though to give some of these lads 1st team experience. 

Not sure why but I thought all the B games were still being played at Staplewood. Will have a look at the list and see if I can watch some.

[Turkish]

19 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

They are pretty much the same age so would have played together at various stages throughout their time at the academy. Mills was only promoted to the U23s towards the end of last season, by which time Tyler was already injured, but they both played in the 3-2 win against City U23s on Saturday.

https://www.footballinsider247.com/he-lives-with-my-son-exclusive-mills-verdict-on-everton-starlet-thierry-small/

 

Interesting. I see quite a lot of Danny Mills, he lives not far from me and we are members of the same golf club. I asked him about Small and he didn’t really seem to know a lot about him other than he was a player of big potential Everton didn’t want to lose. 

[Red]

1 hour ago, WALK DMC said:

Do you think that if we got a big enough offer (including sell on % to Chelsea) and with potentially ready made replacements that we could sell sooner ?   (i.e. next summer).   For example, Man U need an attacking right back/RWB. 

This has other interesting dynamics in that say we are resigned to losing Tino in 2 years when the Chelsea buy back kicks in and yes he could refuse but let's face it in all likely hood why would he? We will never be in the same position in less than 2 years even if we had a mega takeover today. If then say another top club(UK/global) saw the potential and wanted to take him away from Chelsea, they could offer more than the Chelsea buyback figure within the 2 year Chelsea lock out and I presume we can accept it - unless the sale agreement prevents it but can't see how it could? Also, in that event would Chelsea be able to over bid their buyback amount?

Not sure it's that likely but then top clubs have been buying up promising youngers and loaning them out to keep them away from their competition for years and Chelsea in particular. All depends on the buyback figure - the lower it is the more likely I guess. What if Newcastle offer £70M in January or summer?

[tippingnoddles]

On 11/11/2021 at 17:42, Red said:

This has other interesting dynamics in that say we are resigned to losing Tino in 2 years when the Chelsea buy back kicks in and yes he could refuse but let's face it in all likely hood why would he? We will never be in the same position in less than 2 years even if we had a mega takeover today. If then say another top club(UK/global) saw the potential and wanted to take him away from Chelsea, they could offer more than the Chelsea buyback figure within the 2 year Chelsea lock out and I presume we can accept it - unless the sale agreement prevents it but can't see how it could? Also, in that event would Chelsea be able to over bid their buyback amount?

Not sure it's that likely but then top clubs have been buying up promising youngers and loaning them out to keep them away from their competition for years and Chelsea in particular. All depends on the buyback figure - the lower it is the more likely I guess. What if Newcastle offer £70M in January or summer?

Chelsea have a production line of right backs who have moved on because they are not Champions league standard at the moment i.e Lamptey is at Brighton, Aina at Fulham and countless others out on loan. In two years time there will be more.  We are recruiting for premiership and they are recruiting for  Europe

Edited 12 November, 2021 by tippingnoddles
Forgot he wasn't on loan

[VectisSaint]

4 hours ago, Red said:

This has other interesting dynamics in that say we are resigned to losing Tino in 2 years when the Chelsea buy back kicks in and yes he could refuse but let's face it in all likely hood why would he? We will never be in the same position in less than 2 years even if we had a mega takeover today. If then say another top club(UK/global) saw the potential and wanted to take him away from Chelsea, they could offer more than the Chelsea buyback figure within the 2 year Chelsea lock out and I presume we can accept it - unless the sale agreement prevents it but can't see how it could? Also, in that event would Chelsea be able to over bid their buyback amount?

Not sure it's that likely but then top clubs have been buying up promising youngers and loaning them out to keep them away from their competition for years and Chelsea in particular. All depends on the buyback figure - the lower it is the more likely I guess. What if Newcastle offer £70M in January or summer?

He could refuse if Chelsea have other options in his position, i.e. if he doesn't see actually getting in the first team. Similarly Chelsea may not want to buy him back if they have sufficient depth already. I think also that were we to try to sell him next summer Chelsea have some sort of recourse, even though the buy-back clause does not otherwise kick-in for 2 years. 

[Red]

4 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

He could refuse if Chelsea have other options in his position, i.e. if he doesn't see actually getting in the first team. Similarly Chelsea may not want to buy him back if they have sufficient depth already. I think also that were we to try to sell him next summer Chelsea have some sort of recourse, even though the buy-back clause does not otherwise kick-in for 2 years. 

Agreed, all possible but definitely one for "nice problem to have" bucket. If we can replicate this for other positions in the team we might just have a great replica of the past Ajax model.

[Rickman42]

Its a bit of a luxury having a 17-year-old as good as Thierry Small waiting in the wings...clearly has that same 'it' factor that Tino has.

 

If anything, this season is showing exactly why young players should be ditching the academy system of the top 7/8 clubs and be seeking first team football elsewhere. Tino and Broja shining under the Premier League spotlight, with Small soon to follow!

 

Interesting to see which other players might also fall our way in the future!

[austsaint]

22 minutes ago, Rickman42 said:

Its a bit of a luxury having a 17-year-old as good as Thierry Small waiting in the wings...clearly has that same 'it' factor that Tino has.

 

If anything, this season is showing exactly why young players should be ditching the academy system of the top 7/8 clubs and be seeking first team football elsewhere. Tino and Broja shining under the Premier League spotlight, with Small soon to follow!

 

Interesting to see which other players might also fall our way in the future!

Agree with you.   If it's Crocker who's responsible for the identification of Tino, Broja and Small...Simeu perhaps as well, he gets a big round of applause from me.    If Small develops quickly as seems likely; will Saints ever have had such a young/youngish talent filled quartet of full backs than KWP, LIvramento, Perraud and Small?     

[Sheaf Saint]

Worth noting that Small is already listed in the first team squad on the OS, rather than the B team.

He'll be in the Matchday 20 sooner rather than later.

[Saint86]

I think the kid has the potential to be quality, and he seems to have a great attitude which was evident in his first interview.

Has the tribunal fee been fixed yet? Wondering if we're keeping him in the B-team partly for fitness, but partly to keep the price down?