Jack Stephens' passion & has he improved?

[niceandfriendly]

Stephens divides opinion among Saints fans, but I still don't think we'd find a better squad CB than him who would accept not playing every game.

Against Man Utd he was fantastic I thought, stepping ahead of defenders, making some brilliantly timed crunching tackles and giving the Utd players a whole heap of sh*t. Was delighted to see it. Also two important challenges in the build up to our goal, with some truly embarrassing claims of a foul from the butthurt Utd fans.

We could do with more of his kind of passion too, keep it up Jack.

Edited 23 August, 2021 by niceandfriendly

[Maya's Dad]

thought he had a brilliant game. he does bring that intensity which we as a team do lack. stephens usually can do well with a run of games, but then we all know there is that one big mistake in him which is usually what sends him down the pecking order again

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 hour ago, Maya's Dad said:

thought he had a brilliant game. he does bring that intensity which we as a team do lack. stephens usually can do well with a run of games, but then we all know there is that one big mistake in him which is usually what sends him down the pecking order again

Maguire made two big mistakes today, most defenders have mistakes in them. If he can play like that most weeks then we should be fine.

[niceandfriendly]

2 hours ago, Maya's Dad said:

thought he had a brilliant game. he does bring that intensity which we as a team do lack. stephens usually can do well with a run of games, but then we all know there is that one big mistake in him which is usually what sends him down the pecking order again

Yes he's likely to go and play 3 or 4 good games and then slide back into dodgy performances. Really need him to keep a long run of form going.

[AlexLaw76]

Improved yes.  But were were woeful at defending crosses (again) againts united, and he is a big part of that.

[niceandfriendly]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Improved yes.  But were were woeful at defending crosses (again) againts united, and he is a big part of that.

We look clueless when a ball comes into our box. I think McCarthy's dallying doesn't help.

[Saint_clark]

He's a weird one, last two seasons he's had times where he came into the team and looked outstanding and then his performances just drop and he starts making stupid mistakes again. Maybe he just gets comfortable? 

[Baird of the land]

Definitely added steel to his game.

he’s still got the same issue he always had, which is that he switches off at times and gets himself in bad positions.

[Lord Duckhunter]

He’s defo got something and his attitude is spot on. He’s a good passer of the ball and is comfortable on it, Played really well with Yoshida during VvD injury but hasn’t trained on from there. I’d like to see him next to a Fonte like organiser & a  decent keeper before totally writing him off. 

[danjosaint]

Not just him but for long spells we pretty much got beaten to every header, we do that against taller powerful teams we will suffer 

[Greenridge]

Our defending against set-pieces was shambolic. Not just Stephens but he’s part of that. Can’t fault his passion and effort but he’s still not a great defender. 

[Alan Sugarfree]

Greater performance than usual yesterday by him and it was nice to see some sh!thousery taking place on the pitch to rattle United of which he was a big part.

Edited 23 August, 2021 by Alan Sugarfree
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[Saint Garrett]

He’s got the shirt and he deserves it atm, he was excellent yesterday. Would be great if he could step up this season, but like others have said, he has a tendency to come in for a few games, play well, and then make mistake after mistake and give away simple goals.

I really hope he can stay focused and have higher levels of performance this season. 

[Uncle Albert]

In my opinion he’s limited in terms of quality and technical ability, but you can’t fault him on his effort, he left everything on the pitch and kept that twat Bruno in check yesterday, if Ralph is going to keep changing our position to the back five during the games than I could see him being quite an important player.

[rooney]

Jack was very good yesterday and showed a lot of leadership qualities. Amazing what the thought of more competition in that position can do. 

[kitch]

I dunno, maybe I see it differently, but I see the same Jack Stephens I've always seen: Fairly intelligent defender of average ability at squad-level who rarely gives anything less than 100% and genuinely gives a shit. Might not be the best player around, but you know that any deficencies in his game aren't down to a lack of effort.

I think he's a great squad player, and happy to have him around.

[Sarnia Cherie]

Yes and I hope so is my answer to your question. I was cheering him on when he was giving entitled Fernandes a piece of his mind yesterday. You tell him, Jack!

[rallyboy]

It was worth the refunded entry money alone just to see him clatter into that soppy whinger and rob him for our goal. 

Left him in a little sobbing heap. 

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, Greenridge said:

Our defending against set-pieces was shambolic. Not just Stephens but he’s part of that. Can’t fault his passion and effort but he’s still not a great defender. 

If we continue with the high line you NEED a keeper that can confidently and capably rush out and collect balls that drop anywhere in the box. McCarthy doesn't have the confidence and Forster is too slow. 

[Greenridge]

3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

If we continue with the high line you NEED a keeper that can confidently and capably rush out and collect balls that drop anywhere in the box. McCarthy doesn't have the confidence and Forster is too slow. 

There's no 'high line' at corners albeit the 'keeper doesn't help by not dominating his box. The defenders have got to get their head on it. That's not coaching or tactics. It's the basic attribute. Almost every corner was an example of how not to do it and we got away with it. Another day the oppo could have scored 3 or 4 from the same situation. There was one a couple of minutes before HT that sticks in my mind when Matic should have scored. Stephens was marking him and barely got off the floor. 

[Maya's Dad]

2 hours ago, danjosaint said:

Not just him but for long spells we pretty much got beaten to every header, we do that against taller powerful teams we will suffer 

with the cb choices we have now, i would say bednarek is our best header of the lot at the moment. hopefully this is an area the new cb would add to

[HarvSFC]

I've said before that he's better than our previous squad centre-backs, Yoshida and Gardos. He's dependable, which is ideal. It's just the one big mistake he's prone to making, then isn't helped as the goalkeepers here are never going to save him from those mistakes becoming goals.

Him and Bednarek were also a good partnership during the lockdown football, but they fell to pieces in that Tottenham game, when we were trying to play a high line against them.

I also remember him giving it back to another gobshite in Jack Wilshere a few years ago after Wilshere ripped his shirt off. He did get red carded for leaving him on the floor, though.

[Chickendippers]

if there's one thing that sums up Jack for me was when he strolled out of defence, dummied a pass and continued his run, checked his run and casually passed sideways/backwards without looking to a ManU player. I thought we sat deep and as others have pointed out McCarthy isn't dominant enough for that and Stephens suffers because of that.

[a1ex2001]

He’s played over 100 premier league games so he is clearly a decent footballer and is a great squad player for us or any other mid lower table team as others have rightly pointed out who better then him is going to want to be at saints and not be a starter?  I hope he see’s out his career with us he’d be a very handy player if we get relegated and will always do a job when needed if we don’t.  Not every player can be VvD and if they were we wouldn’t keep hold of them Stephens, Romeu etc are the consistent base of our squad that we need with the inevitable comings and going’s of better players.

Edited 23 August, 2021 by a1ex2001

[RobM]

He's great physically, good in the tackle, happy to do the ugly stuff when needed and *just* stay on the right-side of the rules, and he's great on the ball, but he doesn't read the game consistently well enough and gets caught out. Top CB's know where to be, how to position themselves, how to pre-empt danger, and have a habit of being in the right place at the right time. Our Jack isn't quite there yet, so needs somebody next to him who can do this and organise others as well.

 

[sadoldgit]

He is very weak in the air, lacks positional awareness of both himself and the opposition and when he makes mistakes those often lead to goals. He shouldn’t be starting regularly in an EPL because he has weaknesses in areas that a CB should be strong but he is fine as a back up, which is what he will be again soon. He is capable of putting in a good performance but he is equally capable of being a liability. The way he casually passes to the opposition when bringing the ball out of defence in pretty much every game is something a player of his experience should have eradicated from his game by now.

Edited 23 August, 2021 by sadoldgit
Sp

[Chapel End]

Our issue with defending set pieces is due to " Zonal marking" and we aren't very good at and fwiw i bloody hate it 

[kitch]

6 hours ago, Chickendippers said:

if there's one thing that sums up Jack for me was when he strolled out of defence, dummied a pass and continued his run, checked his run and casually passed sideways/backwards without looking to a ManU player. I thought we sat deep and as others have pointed out McCarthy isn't dominant enough for that and Stephens suffers because of that.

I noticed this, too. He's comfortable strolling out of defence with the ball and making the odd run forward (more so than, say, Bednarek) but occasionally he'll make a hash of it, like yesterday.  Like you say, dummied, beat his man, and then just casually gave it away on the edge of his own area!

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

He shouldn’t be starting regularly in an EPL because he has weaknesses in areas that a Cheers, 

 

[suewhistle]

4 hours ago, RobM said:

 Top CB's know where to be, how to position themselves, how to pre-empt danger, and have a habit of being in the right place at the right time. Our Jack isn't quite there yet, so needs somebody next to him who can do this and organise others as well.

Is Maguire a top CB?? He looked uncertain yesterday and I even commented to a seat neighbour that we seemed to be targetting him with our pressing. I'd agree with all the comments about our weakness in the air though.

[niceandfriendly]

Another excellent display from him today

[Nordic Saint]

He was superb today. He kept us in the game in the first half with a series of outstanding tackles and interceptions. Antonio has never been better contained by Saints' central defence than he was today by Stephens and Salisu. Ralph's faith in that pairing is beginning to pay off.

[Chapel End]

Yes

[Dusic]

IMO the reason he started the season ahead of Bednarek is that Salisu was going to be the no1 CB and Ralph realised that a Bednarek/Salisu partnership is fsr too limited on the ball to work. Both are decent defenders, Salisu is great 1v1 and Bednarek is generally solid. But the weakest element of both their games is on the ball, technical ability.

Stephens has some pretty big flaws: concentration, aerial ability, size and ability to dominate physical opponents. But he is calm on the ball and has the ability to play passes to break the lines.

He is a funny player overall, and you can imagine frustrating for Managers because if he could cut out the errors he is actually quite good, and clearly has leadership skills that are quite rare these days.

But thats the thing, he will have good games but can he have 5 in a row with no big mistakes? History says no, but over to him I guess...

[niceandfriendly]

I wonder what he's worth in the market. A lot of Prem experience, English. If Ben White is worth £50m... 

Edited 11 September, 2021 by niceandfriendly

[Dusic]

Just now, niceandfriendly said:

I wonder what he's worth in the market. A lot of Prem experience, English. If Ben White is worth £50m... 

Thats the thing: end of this season he could be worth £30m or £5m. 

Nobody wants a CB who makes big errors every 4 or 5 games.

If he cuts those out (big if) and improves his weaknesses then he has a good game.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I can forgive his errors because he is the one player in the team who leads from the front. Without him we are too meek. He shackled Antonio superbly today. 

[S-Clarke]

He adds some bollocks to our team, you cannot question that. But he is definitely a player who has improved markedly since Ralph came in. He's not a world beater,  but he's no worse than a Dawson or a Mee at this level - in my opinion anyway.

Did you see him give a bollocking to Perruad today? He wasn't happy he let the cross come into the box. Salisu was even trying to calm him down!

Edited 11 September, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Wade Garrett]

Had a great game.

[John Boy Saint]

20 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He adds some bollocks to our team, you cannot question that. But he is definitely a player who has improved markedly since Ralph came in. He's not a world beater,  but he's no worse than a Dawson or a Mee at this level - in my opinion anyway.

Did you see him give a bollocking to Perruad today? He wasn't happy he let the cross come into the box. Salisu was even trying to calm him down!

Gave a good bollocking to the referee too for a really crap decision - I like his “I really don’t give a f*** who you are” attitude. Him and Salisu seem to be clicking.

[Saint_clark]

I have to say I didn't think the centre backs were anything special today, West Ham didn't really do anything that required them to work that hard. Couple of good moments but Ralph going on like it was a top class showing doesnt really resonate with me. 

[Crab Lungs]

Stephens whenever he’s played has always done a half decent job but for me and most amusing of all, he finds someone to troll every game he plays.

I don’t think I’ve never not seen him winding someone up or giving them a bit of stick. What a top boy. 😎

[S-Clarke]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I have to say I didn't think the centre backs were anything special today, West Ham didn't really do anything that required them to work that hard. Couple of good moments but Ralph going on like it was a top class showing doesnt really resonate with me. 

Not sure what game you watched mate. Salisu in particular snuffed the threat of Antonio, so did Stephens to an effect. He followed him and made him know he was around all the time, didn't stand off and they both engaged all the time and made life very difficult.

The foundations of yesterdays performance were based around the centre backs and how they controlled their attack.

[John Boy Saint]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Not sure what game you watched mate. Salisu in particular snuffed the threat of Antonio, so did Stephens to an effect. He followed him and made him know he was around all the time, didn't stand off and they both engaged all the time and made life very difficult.

The foundations of yesterdays performance were based around the centre backs and how they controlled their attack.

Perrauds pace to get back was also a big help too

[Snopper]

We`re running out of scapegoats - only Redmond left now.

[Toussaint]

4 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I have to say I didn't think the centre backs were anything special today, West Ham didn't really do anything that required them to work that hard. Couple of good moments but Ralph going on like it was a top class showing doesnt really resonate with me. 

Little bit ironic, our defence snuffed out West Ham’s attack but the only explanation could be that their attack didn’t do anything? Surely that’s mission accomplished?

[The Cat]

What I liked was the way he kept getting a foot to the ball in front of the player receiving it. Snuffed out so many attacks that way. 

His positioning is also very good for his age, doesn't seem phased by anything and has decent pace. Looks like we have a gem of a player here.

[Matthew Le God]

8 minutes ago, The Cat said:

His positioning is also very good for his age

He is 27 years old (with 6 seasons in a PL squad under his belt), he is not an up and coming youngster.

Edited 12 September, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

He is 27 years old (with 6 seasons in a PL squad under his belt), he is not an up and coming youngster.

I meant to post that on the Salisu thread, although the foot in part applies to both the CB's.

I'm more than aware of how old Jack Stephens is thank you.

[Minsk]

I like Jack as a player. I especially like the way he gets 'stuck in' and speaks his mind. He could well be the defensive leader so many of us have been saying we need all these past months. Moreover, I feel he and Salisu are forming a decent partnership at CB. They certainly compliment each other well. 

Okay, yes, he does make mistakes. News flash - All players make mistakes! I have even seen van Dick make a howler here and there. Tarkowski, who many rave about, had a complete mare against Leeds last season and was at fault for at least 3 of their 4 goals. Jack has and will make mistakes. I can accept that. So long as he also has those matches where he gets stuck in (as in against Fernandes/Utd) and dominates his opponent (as he did yesterday against Antonio).

I guess another question is: Are Stephens/Salisu a better CB pairing than Bednarek/Vestergaard? They are certainly very different in their strengths and weaknesses. The former far more mobile; the latter better in the air. Given most threats in the prem come from fast, mobile, players (as opposed to the traditional, big, English CF type) it could be argued that the mobile CBs are more useful.