Lyanco

[verlaine1979]

10 minutes ago, gammon cheeks said:

Seems a strange one this....linked with quite a few decent centre backs all over the Europe ...and out of the blue Lyanco!  Hopefully the club have seen something in him but seems like a cheap option to me ......time will tell.

Linked with quite a few players around the 15m mark, buy a player around the 6m mark.

How much are loyalty payments to players in their last year of contract?

[saint77]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You've not really read any of this thread then have you. 

Yes I have mr fickle 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

This obsession with resale value and talking about selling them before they’ve even signed is really starting to get on my tits 

You don't have resell value if you are shit. Livramento has resell value, Armstrong has resell value, this guy is another albatross round our neck fucking up our wage bill.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

2 minutes ago, saint77 said:

We must have the most fickle fans in the league give the guy a few games and see what happens alah Bertrand,Armstrong etc etc 

We have the same type of fans everybody else. Pretty sure fans of every other team would be as underwhelmed as we are.

Last season was dreadful defensively. We have now sold a CB for £15mil and replaced him with a guy from Torino for probably half that. And the Torino fans seem to be thanking us for taking him. Sorry, but this is a massive risk given the situation we are already in - defensively fragile, leaking goals for fun. So forgive us if we're not overjoyed!

As you say, all we can now do is support him and hope he does well. Massive risk to take IMO.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, saint77 said:

Yes I have mr fickle 

Kindly explain what's fickle about my post: 

 

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Of course it could but you're just stating the obvious. I don't think anyone is discounting the possibility that he could be good and we may have nabbed a bargain. Most people are simply saying that on the balance of probabilities and without having seen him play yet, this seems like quite a gamble of a signing and less of a sure thing than some other signings we could have made. Our backup rb doesn't really matter that much if he's pretty bad but given how absolutely vital it is to our season that our centre back signing is decent and can hit the ground running straight away, on the face of it it does seem curious that we've gone for this option given the factors I've already outlined. We splashed out big for the ings replacement and got in an exciting player and we spent the money because we recognised the importance of getting in some quality to the team in that area. Imo we should have done similar for the defence or got in someone like this alongside a more experienced name like Cahill. 

Doesn't mean he won't be good, doesn't mean he didn't have a tough time at Torino and will actually be decent but it does mean that that is less probable than some other names that would probably cost more. 

 

[saint77]

1 minute ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

We have the same type of fans everybody else. Pretty sure fans of every other team would be as underwhelmed as we are.

Last season was dreadful defensively. We have now sold a CB for £15mil and replaced him with a guy from Torino for probably half that. And the Torino fans seem to be thanking us for taking him. Sorry, but this is a massive risk given the situation we are already in - defensively fragile, leaking goals for fun. So forgive us if we're not overjoyed!

As you say, all we can now do is support him and hope he does well. Massive risk to take IMO.

Agreed but let’s go back a year ago we all thought the same about vestergard some even didn’t want him to put the shirt on again 

[Colinjb]

This feels a little bit like when we signed Yoshi.

24 years old, came from leftfield, from circumstances that didn't inspire confidence. He worked out.

No, these are not straws..... What are you talking about?

[Toadhall Saint]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Yes I get that. Fingers crossed because he certainly doesn’t seem like what we need. I really hope I’m wrong 

Ditto

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

We have the same type of fans everybody else. Pretty sure fans of every other team would be as underwhelmed as we are.

Last season was dreadful defensively. We have now sold a CB for £15mil and replaced him with a guy from Torino for probably half that. And the Torino fans seem to be thanking us for taking him. Sorry, but this is a massive risk given the situation we are already in - defensively fragile, leaking goals for fun. So forgive us if we're not overjoyed!

As you say, all we can now do is support him and hope he does well. Massive risk to take IMO.

The thing is there's still a chance he could be really good. It's just he would have to confound his price tag and the Torino fans and we can't afford him to take too much time to find his feet like Salisu last year (who still doesn't look great if we're honest.). Like you say it's a huge risk and the scouts must have seen something in him that others haven't seen that makes them think he can hit the ground running and be a success. I hope so. 

[gammon cheeks]

Yes it really is pi55ing me off ! I dont want to hear about getting players and selling them to big clubs ...its soul destroying !

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Colinjb said:

This feels a little bit like when we signed Yoshi.

24 years old, came from leftfield, from circumstances that didn't inspire confidence. He worked out.

No, these are not straws..... What are you talking about?

Did he work? For most of his time here he was third choice at best. For what he cost he was a good squad player but we don’t need squad players we need someone to come in and improve us now 

[Soggy Bottom]

If he's 3rd or 4th choice it makes sense, I guess its Salisu and Bednarek who are first choice centre backs, to be fair we were calling for Salisu to play for months before he actually got in the first team 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, gammon cheeks said:

Yes it really is pi55ing me off ! I dont want to hear about getting players and selling them to big clubs ...its soul destroying !

We all know that’s how it works for us but to be talking about it all the time before we’ve even signed them is pissing me off

[revolution saint]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

You don't have resell value if you are shit. Livramento has resell value, Armstrong has resell value, this guy is another albatross round our neck fucking up our wage bill.

Stop being such a drama queen. He may well be rubbish but he’s not even signed yet and you have no idea what wages he’ll be on if he does sign. You seem to jump to conclusions pretty quickly. Adam Armstrong might not turn out to be that great and Livramento the same. Why not just wait and see instead of getting all worked up?

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, gammon cheeks said:

Yes it really is pi55ing me off ! I dont want to hear about getting players and selling them to big clubs ...its soul destroying !

I'm fine with us being a club that buys players with the intention to sell on for a healthy profit, as long as we actually use that profit and don't absorb ~£20m net spend when we really need to tighten our side

[Colinjb]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Did he work? For most of his time here he was third choice at best. For what he cost he was a good squad player but we don’t need squad players we need someone to come in and improve us now 

I would say that Yoshi at his best would improve us now, for what it's worth. Tying to look at a bright side here. 

My gut feeling is that we are signing a quick show pony with only a small amount of defensive ability. 

Edited 20 August, 2021 by Colinjb

[Turkish]

Just now, Colinjb said:

I would say that Yoshi at his best would improve us now, for what it's worth.

Maybe which shows how low the bar is. 

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Stop being such a drama queen. He may well be rubbish but he’s not even signed yet and you have no idea what wages he’ll be on if he does sign. You seem to jump to conclusions pretty quickly. Adam Armstrong might not turn out to be that great and Livramento the same. Why not just wait and see instead of getting all worked up?

It's a stupid decision. We might get lucky and he happens to be OK, chances are he won't. The fact is though, if we are happy to absorb £20m in a transfer window when we desperately need a good signing we are fucked, regardless of whether this signing is good or not. It's the principle, a club that spends what it makes is going to be precarious, a club that can't even do that is going to drop and drop and drop.

It's not just about a dogshite signing, even if we'd signed someone I considered a genuine bargain for £5m I'd be pissed if it was our only signing because it represents money being drained from our club. This is considering both our netspend transferwise and our trimming of the wage bill.

Edited 20 August, 2021 by TWar

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Maybe which shows how low the bar is. 

It absolutely does. Last season, we could be 3 up and still be worrying if we would get the 3 points. That isn't changing this season for sure.

[egg]

Someone not good enough for a shit team last season in an inferior league can't be good enough to improve our team. Very underwhelming. 

[Baird of the land]

In all honesty  this signing both makes me concerned about how dire our finances must be and has me crossing my fingers that Bednarek has a much better season.

Just hoping if he does well his song is

"In the jungle, the mighty jungle

The Lyanco sleeps tonight

In the jungle the quiet jungle

The Lyanco sleeps tonight"

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

I would say that Yoshi at his best would improve us now, for what it's worth. Tying to look at a bright side here. 

My gut feeling is that we are signing a quick show pony with only a small amount of defensive ability. 

Yoshi at his best would walk into our team at the moment. 

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

We all know that’s how it works for us but to be talking about it all the time before we’ve even signed them is pissing me off

Indeed. At least have the pretence that you're aspiring for something better otherwise it's like you've given up. 

[Turkish]

The names that were supposedly on the list and we end up with this guy let’s hope they know what they’re doing as this is a massive gamble 

2 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

In all honesty  this signing both makes me concerned about how dire our finances must be and has me crossing my fingers that Bednarek has a much better season.

Just hoping if he does well his song is

"In the jungle, the mighty jungle

The Lyanco sleeps tonight

In the jungle the quiet jungle

The Lyanco sleeps tonight"

That racist song is the reason why wanyama left 

Edited 20 August, 2021 by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Maybe which shows how low the bar is. 

Not sure why our CB recruitment has fallen off a cliff. We were superb with the likes of fonte, alderweireld and vvd. What happened? 

[TWar]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Not sure why our CB recruitment has fallen off a cliff. We were superb with the likes of fonte, alderweireld and vvd. What happened? 

Salisu has been fine imo.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Not sure why our CB recruitment has fallen off a cliff. We were superb with the likes of fonte, alderweireld and vvd. What happened? 

Our teams under Pochetino, Koeman and even Puel was hard working and hard to beat. Now were fucked after 40 minutes and fold like a pack of cards. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Salisu has been fine imo.

He hasn't really stood out for me. He's only played a handful of games in a year which is a problem regardless of performance. 

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Turkish said:

Our teams under Pochetino, Koeman and even Puel was hard working and hard to beat. Now were fucked after 40 minutes and fold like a pack of cards. 

I think it's more a case that the opposing team changes tactics during the game and we just do the exact same thing without changing anything regardless of the circumstances. Sometimes we okay well for slightly more than half a game and I think we may have cracked it but we never manage to sustain those performances. 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not sure why our CB recruitment has fallen off a cliff. We were superb with the likes of fonte, alderweireld and vvd. What happened? 

Yep. Hoedt is the one that annoys me. In theory he should have been decent. Young Dutch international etc. But he was a cock and it didn't work out. This guy looks like a poor man's Hoedt. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

I think it's more a case that the opposing team changes tactics during the game and we just do the exact same thing without changing anything regardless of the circumstances. Sometimes we okay well for slightly more than half a game and I think we may have cracked it but we never manage to sustain those performances. 

Seems to be the Blackadder goes fourth war tactic of doing exactly what we’ve done the last 23 times is the last thing they’ll expect us to do this time.

[BotleySaint]

Half expected us to sign no replacement for Vest. At least we've got another senior player at the club. If he's our last signing this window you'd have to say we look weaker on paper than last season, when we needed strengthening. Asset stripping has continued.. 

Edited 20 August, 2021 by BotleySaint

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Yep. Hoedt is the one that annoys me. In theory he should have been decent. Young Dutch international etc. But he was a cock and it didn't work out. This guy looks like a poor man's Hoedt. 

What makes me sad is that we've lost the ability to keep replacing players with comparable or better quality. We had a great knack for that and now it seems like we are settling for players that are sometimes decent but are an overall downgrade on the last couple of seasons. I'd say the one big player we got right was kwp but in other key areas our team has got significantly weaker without tadic, vvd, ings, never replacing wanyama properly etc. I'm totally fine with buying decent prospects but you need that core of experience and quality to allow those young exciting players time to bed in. I'm worried this year by the way things have gone. 

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Seems to be the Blackadder goes fourth war tactic of doing exactly what we’ve done the last 23 times is the last thing they’ll expect us to do this time.

Indeed. I bet that manual that Ralph supposedly wrote just says all about the press tactic in detail without alternatives. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Indeed. I bet that manual that Ralph supposedly wrote just says all about the press tactic in detail without alternatives. 

It feels like 2008/09 season again. Selling off our more experienced players, gambling on young players or cheap imports. We’ll play some nice football and probably get a few plaudits for plucky loses but won’t know the know how or experience to close games off and do the ugly stuff. I fear for us I really do. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It feels like 2008/09 season again. Selling off our more experienced players, gambling on young players or cheap imports. We’ll play some nice football and probably get a few plaudits for plucky loses but won’t know the know how or experience to close games off and do the ugly stuff. I fear for us I really do. 

Was that portvliet? I remember people wanking themselves silly at the start of that season about how we were going to take the league by storm with this fresh new approach of playing the youngsters. Didn't take long for reality to dawn. 

[macca155]

I'm guessing he hasn't been signed as a first choice CH. More of a squad player. Have to wait and see if he is a Lovren or Hoedt.

That means that Bendarek and Salisu are first choice, with no serious compensation.

This may not end well.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

10 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What makes me sad is that we've lost the ability to keep replacing players with comparable or better quality. We had a great knack for that and now it seems like we are settling for players that are sometimes decent but are an overall downgrade on the last couple of seasons. I'd say the one big player we got right was kwp but in other key areas our team has got significantly weaker without tadic, vvd, ings, never replacing wanyama properly etc. I'm totally fine with buying decent prospects but you need that core of experience and quality to allow those young exciting players time to bed in. I'm worried this year by the way things have gone. 

Bear in mind that lots of people thought Mane, Pelle, Ings were poor signings early in their times with us so it's never exactly been a case of signing ready made replacements.

That said we do seem to be spending less this summer and that's reflected in the players

[egg]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

What makes me sad is that we've lost the ability to keep replacing players with comparable or better quality. We had a great knack for that and now it seems like we are settling for players that are sometimes decent but are an overall downgrade on the last couple of seasons. I'd say the one big player we got right was kwp but in other key areas our team has got significantly weaker without tadic, vvd, ings, never replacing wanyama properly etc. I'm totally fine with buying decent prospects but you need that core of experience and quality to allow those young exciting players time to bed in. I'm worried this year by the way things have gone. 

Yep, agreed. Experience and quality down the spine is vital. We've downgraded in almost every area, and this season we're weaker up front and at CB. GK is still poor, and the jury's out on LB. The level of fan expectation is highlighted by people getting excited about signing a 17 year old LB from Everton who can't even make their bench. 

[Turkish]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Was that portvliet? I remember people wanking themselves silly at the start of that season about how we were going to take the league by storm with this fresh new approach of playing the youngsters. Didn't take long for reality to dawn. 

Yep; that’s the one. A few good performances whilst still getting our arses handed to us. I remember us losing 4-1 at QPR and everyone saying how well we’d played and to be fair we scored a great goal, but ultimately still got a hiding. Bit like everyone now saying how great it is we played well for 20 minutes at Man City but still lost 5-1

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, macca155 said:

I'm guessing he hasn't been signed as a first choice CH. More of a squad player. Have to wait and see if he is a Lovren or Hoedt.

That means that Bendarek and Salisu are first choice, with no serious compensation.

This may not end well.

hey what about me?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

57 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'll be interested to hear the clubs justification. Hopefully they've been scouting him for ages and know all about him. 

I suppose the positive is that if he can learn to defend, then his ability on the ball will make him one of the best in the world. Big if though

[bennyev]

We’ve lost our 3 most experienced players and their wages. And replaced them with half price versions. 
 

That’s some gamble from a team who let in a shitload of goals and had a terrible second half of the season.

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep, agreed. Experience and quality down the spine is vital. We've downgraded in almost every area, and this season we're weaker up front and at CB. GK is still poor, and the jury's out on LB. The level of fan expectation is highlighted by people getting excited about signing a 17 year old LB from Everton who can't even make their bench. 

I don't mind the young lb if we get him because he's a backup. My issue is we've replaced Bertrand with someone who may be of similar quality, we've probably got a CB that is not the clear immediate improvement over vestergaard, we are weak in cm, we've never replaced tadic and Armstrong will have to be seriously impressive to do better than ings so overall we're worse than last year when we were absolutely terrible since January. 

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I suppose the positive is that if he can learn to defend, then his ability on the ball will make him one of the best in the world. Big if though

And that's great if he was signed as the backup option to learn his craft a bit like the role that Salisu had last season but we simply can't afford it. Sometimes I think saints are a bit too clever for their own good. 

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Yep; that’s the one. A few good performances whilst still getting our arses handed to us. I remember us losing 4-1 at QPR and everyone saying how well we’d played and to be fair we scored a great goal, but ultimately still got a hiding. Bit like everyone now saying how great it is we played well for 20 minutes at Man City but still lost 5-1

Or what a great half we had against Everton before getting spanked 3-1...

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, BotleySaint said:

Half expected us to sign no replacement for Vest. At least we've got another senior player at the club. If he's our last signing this window you'd have to say we look weaker on paper than last season, when we needed strengthening. Asset stripping has continued.. 

I maybe foolishly thought we’d go big (for us) and get someone in who can make an immediate impact. Worrall, the lad at Fulham someone who ideally knows the league and can improve us. As it turns out we’ve made a massive gamble in a key postion. Boring as it sounds don’t concede you don’t lose. Sadly we conceded far too easily and it seems that hasn’t changed since last season 

[sydenhamssocks]

13 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Bear in mind that lots of people thought Mane, Pelle, Ings were poor signings early in their times with us so it's never exactly been a case of signing ready made replacements.

That said we do seem to be spending less this summer and that's reflected in the players

Pelle scored a half dozen goals in his first month. Prem player of the month too. Think they were both on a different level at the point of signing, compared to this guy. 
feels like a ‘Championship Ready’ squad is being assembled 

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

There are a lot of negative posts here from what I can see from a quick scan. Let's just wait and see shall we? Personally, on looking at those videos I find myself seeing both massive potential and yet also some things that may be of concern. Whether they will be of concern remains to be seen as does whether we can bring out the best in him. Nevertheless, this is what I observe so far:

• He has far more flair pushing out of defence than your typical centre back and great ability moving forwards. That makes him a potentially great defensive midfielder.
• He looks good at turning a defensive position into an attacking one. Again this makes him good at both CB and DM.
• He looks good at intercepting passes within a high line - that suits the Saints way of playing. Also good as a DM.
• He looks good at making raking long passes out of defence. That replaces what we have lost in Vestergaard.
• His marking in the 7-0 defeat was ok at first but seemed to drift as the game went on. He may need some coaching in that area.
• In the 7-0 defeat the other defenders around him seemed particularly hopeless, especially for some of the first few goals where Lyanco was not to blame at all. No defender can be expected to do it all - they operate as a defensive unit. We will need to ensure that our defence builds that level of understanding.
• There is limited evidence of him tackling. Potentially he may need some coaching in that area.
• He looks good in attack - both scoring from headers and making telling assists. That's brilliant and exciting to see. He may be more of a Ward-Prowse type DM than a Romeu but may have potential in both styles of DM play.

Hopefully by buying a cheaper player we can also buy a couple of other players such as Thierry Small and who knows, maybe another player too?!

[Matthew Le God]

5 minutes ago, sydenhamssocks said:

Pelle scored a half dozen goals in his first month. 

He scored 2 league goals in his first month.

Edited 20 August, 2021 by Matthew Le God