Lyanco

[Daft Kerplunk]

36 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

We're only allowed to judge a player on the back of a single game if the judgment is that they are brilliant and will be definitely worth £40m and/or we've made a huge error only loaning this guy we have to buy him, he's a class above etc etc etc.

Otherwise single game analysis is not permitted.

Mad that Ali Dia only had one match and was written off so quickly

[stknowle]

On 16/09/2021 at 14:29, goodymatt said:

Might we see Lyanco in the cup against Sheffield United next week or do we think that’s too soon?

Well....we did, and it was.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Stephens out until the new year so we may see more of him.

[saintwbu]

The last player we had written off after a difficult first game away at Sheffield United in the league cup didn’t turn out too bad…

[Rickman42]

You have to remember he's only been in the country for a few weeks, doesn't speak any English, and has never played a match in English Football before.

 

Better for him to make these mistakes in a Cup game than in the Premier League! Remember how long it took Salisu to settle in and find his feet? Give him some time.

 

Semmens and Co did pretty well recruiting Tino, Broja, Perraud, Armstrong...lets not question them or Lyanco off the back of one performance.

Edited 22 September, 2021 by Rickman42

[JRM]

I was behind the right of the goal last night, thought he looked way off the pace and Salisu spent a lot of time trying to guide him. Wouldn't have helped having Valery next to him who was also poor. 

First game so I'm sure he needs time to get some fitness but a lot of improvement needed from the Gorilla. 

[TWar]

People saying we can't "write him off" after a single game, it's a single SAINTS game. He looked thoroughly shite for the rest of his career basically and Torino fans were ecstatic to see the back of him.

I won't write him off but the "you don't know until you watch him play for us" crowd are 0/2 so far. Livramento was just as insane as people who were aware of his stats and reputation expected him to be. And, so far, Lyanco has been just as dogshit.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

I didn't see the game, but those who did, were there any positives?  I think it's perfectly understandable for a debutant (new country etc.) to make some mistakes, but did he do anything good?

Edited 22 September, 2021 by Jeremy Corbyn

[Roo1976]

5 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

Christ on a bike, the lad has played one game ffs. I can remember some very good players for Saints, who had crap debuts.

Carrilio come to mind .........our record signing?

[Dellman]

This Forum treated Sadio Mane as rubbish when he arrived. Abuse was poured on him 'waste of money' 'get rid' and so on. This management will give Lyanco time to settle, time to learn, yesterday was just the beginning of the process

[SuperSAINT]

8 minutes ago, Dellman said:

This Forum treated Sadio Mane as rubbish when he arrived. 

Everyone?

[TWar]

Stephens out means we are down to two usable CB's as Lyanco is clearly bollocks. Whats the point in expanding "depth" when the person you have brought in to do so gets made to look hopeless by a championship side?

[trousers]

31 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Everyone?

It's never "everyone" but I do recall Mane getting a significant amount of flak in his early days. Would be surprised if it wasn't the majority view at the time. 

I think the most concerning element of Lyanco's debut for me is that his mistake for their second goal was a completely unforced error. You could understand such a woeful pass if the player was under pressure, but he wasn't. Maybe it was a one off brain-fart and one's concern is unfounded. Who knows. I'm usually one of the last people on here to make snap judgements about managers, players, early season form, etc, so I'll give Lyanco the benefit of the doubt despite these initial concerns. 

Edited 22 September, 2021 by trousers

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

I was behind the right of the goal last night, thought he looked way off the pace and Salisu spent a lot of time trying to guide him. Wouldn't have helped having Valery next to him who was also poor. 

First game so I'm sure he needs time to get some fitness but a lot of improvement needed from the Gorilla. 

This is a very important point. When we were playing a back 4 in the first half, Valery was hopeless at RB. Made it far too easy for the Utd winger to get past him time and time again, so Lyanco was having to come out of position to cover this on more than one occasion.

He really wasn't as bad as some people (who likely weren't even at the game) are making out. 

[once_bitterne]

1 hour ago, Rickman42 said:

You have to remember he's only been in the country for a few weeks, doesn't speak any English, and has never played a match in English Football before.

 

 

3 GREAT reasons why, if you have £7m to spend on a player needed to keep us up this season, you don't sign him....

Edited 22 September, 2021 by once_bitterne

[Bob76]

23 minutes ago, TWar said:

Stephens out means we are down to two usable CB's as Lyanco is clearly bollocks. Whats the point in expanding "depth" when the person you have brought in to do so gets made to look hopeless by a championship side?

Stupid comment, new club, new country, give the lad a chance, it's comments like this that make me sure you are a dickhead.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

[once_bitterne]

1 minute ago, Bob76 said:

Stupid comment, new club, new country, give the lad a chance, it's comments like this that make me sure you are a dickhead.

We sold our first choice CB to a club chasing the CL.  We replaced with a 4th choice 'project' and gambled we could bank the difference in transfer fees.

It's a very dangerous strategy when this season is all about staying up.

[once_bitterne]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

He seems an absolute nutter more concerned about becoming a cult hero.

What's the spreadbet on how long before he headbutts JWP in training and has to go away somewhere.....

[Greenridge]

1 minute ago, once_bitterne said:

We sold our first choice CB to a club chasing the CL.  We replaced with a 4th choice 'project' and gambled we could bank the difference in transfer fees.

It's a very dangerous strategy when this season is all about staying up.

Every season is about staying up. The strategy is basically the same. Buy low, develop, sell high. This is no different.

One day we'll likely catch a cold of course.

[Bob76]

1 minute ago, once_bitterne said:

We sold our first choice CB to a club chasing the CL.  We replaced with a 4th choice 'project' and gambled we could bank the difference in transfer fees.

It's a very dangerous strategy when this season is all about staying up.

Not arguing with that, just think people need to give the lad time, it's hard just changing jobs, let alone moving country etc. We are not in a position to buy to quality all the moment so have to buy projects some will work some won't.

Just don't see writing someone off after one saints game. 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Hopefully we get a reasonable draw in the next round and he can have another low risk run out, see if he improves.

[CylonKing]

Was at the game and whilst both centre backs did make mistakes, I also thought they did some excellent covering. Both Salisu and Lyanco had moments where they spotted danger and read the pass to get there before the Sheff Utd player. Not great games from either in terms of defending but not as bad as some people are making out. Both also started attack build ups and weren't afraid to venture forward at times. Perraud was the stand out defender on the left though, had a decent game.

[LuckyNumber7]

I was underwhelmed by his signing, but to write him off after less than one full game in a Saints shirt is pathetic, just as it is to declare someone a huge success after a good debut (Lemina anyone)? He will need time to adapt to the fast pace and physical nature of English football not to mention the complete change in culture. Remember the Torino fans' negative opinion of him were supposedly not so much to do with his performances on the pitch. He at least looks like he is committed to be here and trying to be a success.

I'd have much rather we signed a more established CB to go straight into the first team but we didn't, he's here now so let's give him our support. He may well turn out to be crap but at least give the guy a fair crack of the whip.

[Rickman42]

Ralph never once said Lyanco was joining the club to be the number 1 centre back...he's another project signing, similar to when Salisu just signed.

 

Edited 22 September, 2021 by Rickman42

[Saint Mikey]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Stephens out means we are down to two usable CB's as Lyanco is clearly bollocks. Whats the point in expanding "depth" when the person you have brought in to do so gets made to look hopeless by a championship side?

Were you at the game? If not, you seem to be going in hard on a player you still haven't seen play.

4 minutes ago, CylonKing said:

Was at the game and whilst both centre backs did make mistakes, I also thought they did some excellent covering. Both Salisu and Lyanco had moments where they spotted danger and read the pass to get there before the Sheff Utd player. Not great games from either in terms of defending but not as bad as some people are making out. Both also started attack build ups and weren't afraid to venture forward at times. Perraud was the stand out defender on the left though, had a decent game.

Thanks for the balanced report. I will reserve judgement until I see him play a number of times. There are comparisons to the reaction to Mane, but last season some posters were going mental that we'd bought Salisu, who 'was clearly a dud' or some such bollocks. Should teach people to be a bit more rational, but clearly doesn't.

[goodymatt]

I was at the game last night and thought Lyanco looked composed and calm on the ball in the main, wasn’t all bad and it was his first game in England. Agree with other posters that neither CB had a great game. The worrying thing about Lyanco was that he should have given away 2 goals. First one he was just holding off their player and another came in, stole it, megged Salisu (very poor from Sali too there) and then somehow narrowly missed. Second one an unforced error lead to their equaliser. On both occasions he’s taking unnecessary risks. He’s young and hopefully we can develop him to take those risks at the right time, something that Vestergaard learned eventually after similar moments of being too calm on the ball at the wrong time.

[JRM]

57 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

This is a very important point. When we were playing a back 4 in the first half, Valery was hopeless at RB. Made it far too easy for the Utd winger to get past him time and time again, so Lyanco was having to come out of position to cover this on more than one occasion.

He really wasn't as bad as some people (who likely weren't even at the game) are making out. 

We were pretty close to him in the first half, at times he looked absolutely knackered getting his breath back, I'd like to see him play a couple of u23 games and excel at that level before stepping up. 

[revolution saint]

3 hours ago, TWar said:

People saying we can't "write him off" after a single game, it's a single SAINTS game. He looked thoroughly shite for the rest of his career basically and Torino fans were ecstatic to see the back of him.

I won't write him off but the "you don't know until you watch him play for us" crowd are 0/2 so far. Livramento was just as insane as people who were aware of his stats and reputation expected him to be. And, so far, Lyanco has been just as dogshit.

 

2 hours ago, TWar said:

Stephens out means we are down to two usable CB's as  Lyanco is clearly bollocks . Whats the point in expanding "depth" when the person you have brought in to do so gets made to look hopeless by a championship side?

Good to see you're not writing him off then.  I know some people have been guilty of acting like hysterical tarts after a single game but always appreciate it when people are a bit more balanced.

[miserableoldgit]

5 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

 

Good to see you're not writing him off then.  I know some people have been guilty of acting like hysterical tarts after a single game but always appreciate it when people are a bit more balanced.

As I posted in the Match thread, "Ralph did say in his P.C. last week that Lyanco was a long-term project in the same way that Salisu was/is. Perhaps Jack Stephens injury has altered things on that front slightly."

[revolution saint]

14 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

As I posted in the Match thread, "Ralph did say in his P.C. last week that Lyanco was a long-term project in the same way that Salisu was/is. Perhaps Jack Stephens injury has altered things on that front slightly."

Yeah, but this really does have an end of days type feeling miserableoldgit.  I was a bit worried about COVID and I'm concerned about the climate and world poverty and shit like that but I don't think I've ever been as worried about any of that stuff as I am about a fourth choice centre back who wasn't brought in to be a quick fix being a bit rubbish in his first game.  I think we're f*cked.

[Convict Colony]

4 hours ago, TWar said:

People saying we can't "write him off" after a single game, it's a single SAINTS game. He looked thoroughly shite for the rest of his career basically and Torino fans were ecstatic to see the back of him.

I won't write him off but the "you don't know until you watch him play for us" crowd are 0/2 so far. Livramento was just as insane as people who were aware of his stats and reputation expected him to be. And, so far, Lyanco has been just as dogshit.

He was rated the 2nd best player in the bolgna squad when he went there on loan - 7.03 on whoscored

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/71/Archive/Italy-Bologna?stageId=16548

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, trousers said:

It's never "everyone" but I do recall Mane getting a significant amount of flak in his early days. Would be surprised if it wasn't the majority view at the time. 

I think the most concerning element of Lyanco's debut for me is that his mistake for their second goal was a completely unforced error. You could understand such a woeful pass if the player was under pressure, but he wasn't. Maybe it was a one off brain-fart and one's concern is unfounded. Who knows. I'm usually one of the last people on here to make snap judgements about managers, players, early season form, etc, so I'll give Lyanco the benefit of the doubt despite these initial concerns. 

The thread after we lost 1-0 at Sheffield United was a thing of beauty. Worst signing since Ali Dia, f*ck off back to where he came from, Never want to see him in a saints shirt again, where three of the stand outs of many posts 

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 hours ago, Rickman42 said:

You have to remember he's only been in the country for a few weeks, doesn't speak any English, and has never played a match in English Football before.

 

Better for him to make these mistakes in a Cup game than in the Premier League! Remember how long it took Salisu to settle in and find his feet? Give him some time.

 

Semmens and Co did pretty well recruiting Tino, Broja, Perraud, Armstrong...lets not question them or Lyanco off the back of one performance.

Of course it’s way too early to judge him a failure, but it’s also way too early to claim we did “pretty good” recruiting Tino, Broja, perraud & Armstrong. None have played more than a handful of games and none have won a league game yet. 

[TWar]

Awful lot of overly optimistic nonsense in this thread. He is not a good player, he was not a good player for Torino (a much smaller team than us in a much easier league) and he isn't now. I'm not "writing him off" as I think he could improve and become a decent player but right now he is bollocks. Sorry to all the "wait and see, maybe he miraculously stopped being atrocious on his way over from Italy" lot. Also things like "he needs time to settle..." or "new country will take a learning curve", that only applies when the guy was good in the old country. He was dreadful for Torino having been in Italy for years, what's his excuse there?

People deride our club for all sorts of reasons like "we aren't strong enough", "we lack leadership", "we don't have enough fight" or whatever. The truth of the matter is some of our players are poor and because we don't spend enough money that will continue to be the case. Right now, we have most likely signed our worst player in our squad and we signed him to replace a dependable if not perfect international CB. People should be furious but instead people reckon new means good and that he can't be judged until he has like 20 appearances. He likely won't get 20 appearances because he is so bad right now. Sorry but our whiney fanbase complain about so many reasonable things the club does but when we replace a Danish international CB with a player who would be laughed at at championship level somehow it is unacceptable to point that out. 

4 hours ago, Bob76 said:

it's comments like this that make me sure you are a dickhead.

Because I disagree with you on the quality of a footballer? You don't know me at all, grow up.

[Saint Garrett]

He's got a way to go for sure.  Wasn't at the game, but sounded like a bit of a shocker. 

Hopefully in our "best side" he'll be a bit more comfortable

[Bob76]

24 minutes ago, TWar said:

Awful lot of overly optimistic nonsense in this thread. He is not a good player, he was not a good player for Torino (a much smaller team than us in a much easier league) and he isn't now. I'm not "writing him off" as I think he could improve and become a decent player but right now he is bollocks. Sorry to all the "wait and see, maybe he miraculously stopped being atrocious on his way over from Italy" lot. Also things like "he needs time to settle..." or "new country will take a learning curve", that only applies when the guy was good in the old country. He was dreadful for Torino having been in Italy for years, what's his excuse there?

People deride our club for all sorts of reasons like "we aren't strong enough", "we lack leadership", "we don't have enough fight" or whatever. The truth of the matter is some of our players are poor and because we don't spend enough money that will continue to be the case. Right now, we have most likely signed our worst player in our squad and we signed him to replace a dependable if not perfect international CB. People should be furious but instead people reckon new means good and that he can't be judged until he has like 20 appearances. He likely won't get 20 appearances because he is so bad right now. Sorry but our whiney fanbase complain about so many reasonable things the club does but when we replace a Danish international CB with a player who would be laughed at at championship level somehow it is unacceptable to point that out. 

Because I disagree with you on the quality of a footballer? You don't know me at all, grow up.

How ironic.

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Awful lot of overly optimistic nonsense in this thread. He is not a good player, he was not a good player for Torino (a much smaller team than us in a much easier league) and he isn't now. I'm not "writing him off" as I think he could improve and become a decent player but right now he is bollocks. Sorry to all the "wait and see, maybe he miraculously stopped being atrocious on his way over from Italy" lot. Also things like "he needs time to settle..." or "new country will take a learning curve", that only applies when the guy was good in the old country. He was dreadful for Torino having been in Italy for years, what's his excuse there?

People deride our club for all sorts of reasons like "we aren't strong enough", "we lack leadership", "we don't have enough fight" or whatever. The truth of the matter is some of our players are poor and because we don't spend enough money that will continue to be the case. Right now, we have most likely signed our worst player in our squad and we signed him to replace a dependable if not perfect international CB. People should be furious but instead people reckon new means good and that he can't be judged until he has like 20 appearances. He likely won't get 20 appearances because he is so bad right now. Sorry but our whiney fanbase complain about so many reasonable things the club does but when we replace a Danish international CB with a player who would be laughed at at championship level somehow it is unacceptable to point that out. 

Because I disagree with you on the quality of a footballer? You don't know me at all, grow up.

I don't think anyone is being "overly optimistic" - they're just willing to give him a bit more time and not go over the top on what is essentially a player that's 4th choice CB.  No one is saying he will be fantastic and no one is saying he's the new VVD.  He may turn out to be a really good player, he may turn out to be awful or more realistically he'll be somewhere in between.  What they're not doing is throwing a little paddy and stamping their feet as if this signing alone will relegate us.  Let's be honest if the signing of a 4th choice CB is the biggest thing you have to moan about regarding the team then we really shouldn't have any problems this season.  You made up your mind on him before we even signed him - it's not like you're really looking with an open mind is it? You're entitled to an opinion and that's fine but don't get too worked up if someone questions it.  Oh and moaning about a "whiney fanbase"?  You're coming across as being it's biggest representative at the moment.

[Convict Colony]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

" I'm not "writing him off" as I think he could improve and become a decent player "

"He likely won't get 20 appearances because he is so bad right now."

 

Edited 22 September, 2021 by Convict Colony

[st alex]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

He's got a way to go for sure.  Wasn't at the game, but sounded like a bit of a shocker. 

Hopefully in our "best side" he'll be a bit more comfortable

Thought he played better than Salisu - who was terrible first half at least.

[sydney_saint]

This is going to be a tricky one I think. On the one hand those saying don't judge a player on one game absolutely have a fair point.

On the other, Torino were a hot pile of turd last season. If they were in the premier league they would likely have been relegated. Fair enough if we want to pinch their best players, even awful sides have great players. But picking up their third choice centre back for 7m has them laughing more than us. If we had picked up Michael Hector from Fulham for that price doubt people would be feeling good about it. 

[Alanh]

3 hours ago, TWar said:

Awful lot of overly optimistic nonsense in this thread. He is not a good player, he was not a good player for Torino (a much smaller team than us in a much easier league) and he isn't now. I'm not "writing him off" as I think he could improve and become a decent player but right now he is bollocks. Sorry to all the "wait and see, maybe he miraculously stopped being atrocious on his way over from Italy" lot. Also things like "he needs time to settle..." or "new country will take a learning curve", that only applies when the guy was good in the old country. He was dreadful for Torino having been in Italy for years, what's his excuse there?

People deride our club for all sorts of reasons like "we aren't strong enough", "we lack leadership", "we don't have enough fight" or whatever. The truth of the matter is some of our players are poor and because we don't spend enough money that will continue to be the case. Right now, we have most likely signed our worst player in our squad and we signed him to replace a dependable if not perfect international CB. People should be furious but instead people reckon new means good and that he can't be judged until he has like 20 appearances. He likely won't get 20 appearances because he is so bad right now. Sorry but our whiney fanbase complain about so many reasonable things the club does but when we replace a Danish international CB with a player who would be laughed at at championship level somehow it is unacceptable to point that out. 

Because I disagree with you on the quality of a footballer? You don't know me at all, grow up.

The bit in red - aren't you saying the same thing as those people who want to give him time.  You aren't writing him off and think he could improve, and so are they.

The bit in blue - We didn't sign him to replace JV in the squad, we signed him to be 4th choice with Salisu moving up to be first choice - effectively replacing JV in the CB pecking order. Utter rubbish suggesting people should be furious.

[TWar]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

 

It's not writing someone off to say they likely won't be very good. Writing them off is saying they have no hope and 0 chance of success, I'm just stating how I view the odds.

 

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

I don't think anyone is being "overly optimistic" - they're just willing to give him a bit more time and not go over the top on what is essentially a player that's 4th choice CB.  No one is saying he will be fantastic and no one is saying he's the new VVD.  He may turn out to be a really good player, he may turn out to be awful or more realistically he'll be somewhere in between.  What they're not doing is throwing a little paddy and stamping their feet as if this signing alone will relegate us.  Let's be honest if the signing of a 4th choice CB is the biggest thing you have to moan about regarding the team then we really shouldn't have any problems this season.  You made up your mind on him before we even signed him - it's not like you're really looking with an open mind is it? You're entitled to an opinion and that's fine but don't get too worked up if someone questions it.  Oh and moaning about a "whiney fanbase"?  You're coming across as being it's biggest representative at the moment.

Problem is, he might be a 4th choice CB but Vestergaard sure as hell wasn't. This means our general quality of squad has dramatically decreased in an area we were already having difficulties in. I'm also not saying this signing will relegate us, I am very positive about the team and think we will likely finish comfortably mid table but if we keep depleting the squad by selling first team staples and replacing them with dross we are only moving in one direction.

I think terms like "made up your mind" are reductive. I assessed how good he was based on multiple things and decided that he is very likely to be a sharp downgrade on Vestergaard. He might not be, but he probably will be, and that is a problem. I will continue to assess his quality and change my mind if he does anything to disprove it but as it stands he has a long way to go to look anything other than a massive cheap out.

Also not too "wound up", except by the guy calling me a dickhead out the blue, that was uncalled for.

[Convict Colony]

39 minutes ago, TWar said:

It's not writing someone off to say they likely won't be very good. Writing them off is saying they have no hope and 0 chance of success, I'm just stating how I view the odds.

 

Problem is, he might be a 4th choice CB but Vestergaard sure as hell wasn't. This means our general quality of squad has dramatically decreased in an area we were already having difficulties in. I'm also not saying this signing will relegate us, I am very positive about the team and think we will likely finish comfortably mid table but if we keep depleting the squad by selling first team staples and replacing them with dross we are only moving in one direction.

I think terms like "made up your mind" are reductive. I assessed how good he was based on multiple things and decided that he is very likely to be a sharp downgrade on Vestergaard. He might not be, but he probably will be, and that is a problem. I will continue to assess his quality and change my mind if he does anything to disprove it but as it stands he has a long way to go to look anything other than a massive cheap out.

Also not too "wound up", except by the guy calling me a dickhead out the blue, that was uncalled for.

I think people are just surprised about you having such a strong reaction to a new player playing his first game for us, it seems a bit weird.

We want all our signings to be great and the team to be successful but let's not think we have world class players and given our budget constraints sometimes we have to compromise.

Give the guy a break and lets see how he develops, remember vestagaard was not 1st choice for a lot of his career here - he had a nice 6month purple patch last season though and good luck to him.

Haters hate upwards.

[suewhistle]

4 hours ago, TWar said:

Awful lot of overly optimistic nonsense in this thread.

I think it's called 'reserving judgement'. For some reason you seem to be going off on one like Turkish when someone mentions LGBT! 😉

 

[davefizzy14]

Last night was Lyancos first game. He needs time to adapt to the English game so patience is required. Ralph has highlighted this already. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, suewhistle said:

I think it's called 'reserving judgement'. For some reason you seem to be going off on one like Turkish when someone mentions LGBT! 😉

 

Name dropping me again you seem a tad obsessed Sussie. 

[LuckyNumber7]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

 

I think terms like "made up your mind" are reductive. I assessed how good he was based on multiple things and decided that he is very likely to be a sharp downgrade on Vestergaard.

I don't suppose one of those things was actually watching him play by any chance?

[Lord Duckhunter]

9 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

I don't suppose one of those things was actually watching him play by any chance?

No, but his PS4 stats are shite. 

Edited 22 September, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

I don't suppose one of those things was actually watching him play by any chance?

Since when has that mattered! It’s all About FM and FIFA stats, XG, against the ball stuff these days. Actually watching them yourself is a poor guide as to a players ability