Afghanistan

[Warriorsaint]

Yeah, can’t get het up about this anymore. Just saddened for the people there having to put up with what’s going on over there, saddened by our maimed and forgotten troops feeling betrayed and a truly incompetent govt. 

such a car crash.

 

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

I am getting bored with this ‘what about Qatar?’ already. That Marcus Rashford might be doing great work helping hungry kids but the cunt is going t8 Qatar so what a hypocrite.

And all the bell-ends going on about it will no doubt watch the World Cup just like everyone else.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

45 minutes ago, aintforever said:

And all the bell-ends going on about it will no doubt watch the World Cup just like everyone else.

How have people not worked out how baseless whataboutery is by now?  Doing loads of great things and one thing that's morally dubious is better than doing no good things.

[Weston Super Saint]

7 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

How have people not worked out how baseless whataboutery is by now?  Doing loads of great things and one thing that's morally dubious is better than doing no good things.

Like Prince Andrew and all the charities he heads up, but shags an underage girl a couple of times, so gets a free pass?

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Warriorsaint said:

Yeah, can’t get het up about this anymore. Just saddened for the people there having to put up with what’s going on over there, saddened by our maimed and forgotten troops feeling betrayed and a truly incompetent govt. 

such a car crash.

 

Why have you forgotten the troops?

[kyle04]

The Taliban have said they'll be good this time though, so it may not be as bad as some think, they're even on twitter apparently. The timing of their advances coincided with the NATO withdrawal, hence the chaos, maybe if they had waited until the infidel had all gone the "transition" may have been more orderly. I'm not trying to be glib, they were always going to take over at some point, and the NATO forces couldn't just vanish into the night. I think if the UN are allowed reasonable access to monitor the situation in the future the country may have a chance of some progress. I hope the Taliban have learnt that they cannot harbor terrorists who would pose a threat to the West, or risk another 20 year occupation, although in reality I don't think the US in particular have the stomach for another foreign adventure anytime soon. Ironically, thanks to the US, they are probably now better armed than the British Army.

[Picard]

They are pretty good at trolling

 

[hypochondriac]

Taliban get an A* for shitposting. 

[StDunko]

Tallibanter

[Jonnyboy]

Anyone seen the video of them all enjoying the dodgems? Scenes. 

[Turkish]

 

[Turkish]

Lads working out too #gains

 

[Warriorsaint]

5 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Why have you forgotten the troops?

Of course not , you troll. Just helpless. 

[Warriorsaint]

5 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Why have you forgotten the troops?

You are so broken!

[whelk]

26 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 

They have airbrushed out the adulterer’s head they are bumping around

Edited 18 August, 2021 by whelk

[skintsaint]

The old Taliban are just one giant lads club.

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

Of course not , you troll. Just helpless. 

There was a piece on the news last night about Royal Wootton Bassett and remembering all the fallen soldiers, the ones you've clearly stated have been forgotten.

Now you say that of course they haven't been forgotten.

We'll put this down to 'more shit Warriorsaint has made up to try and goad a reaction' shall we?

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, whelk said:

They have airbrushed out the adulterer’s head they are bumping around

Beautiful example of religious intolerance and racial stereotyping.

The punishment for 'zina' is stoning rather than beheading, but hey, they follow a different religion and have different laws to us so they must all be uneducated heathens who go round chopping heads off left, right and centre right?

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Beautiful example of religious intolerance and racial stereotyping.

The punishment for 'zina' is stoning rather than beheading, but hey, they follow a different religion and have different laws to us so they must all be uneducated heathens who go round chopping heads off left, right and centre right?

Has it really got to the poibt where you're defending the Taliban now? 

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Has it really got to the poibt where you're defending the Taliban now? 

 

Nail 'em up I say. Nail some sense into 'em.

[OldNick]

Imagine all the children who have actually known a type of freedom. They have never known the rule of the taliban and now will be ( if they keep to form) unable to play together. The girls will be wrapped up and not be able to join society as they had before. Simplistic, perhaps but it is a shame on us in the west, not to protect those people who had embraced change.

My thoughts are with the young of Afghanistan, I truly hope my fears are unfounded

[OldNick]

On 17/08/2021 at 20:43, Dyslexic Saint said:

Round and round we go. We interfered and it back fired. As posters have stated it is too complicated for the west to understand.  But we gave them a chance and they legged it, maybe we should learn the lesson.

I tell you what, if the Taliban were around the corner over here and our army was disintegrating we would be running away. Dont think our society now would stand up and fight them. 

[Warriorsaint]

On 16/08/2021 at 21:37, CB Fry said:

Why didn't Antrimsaint stay and fight?

I think he was banned so not his choice I believe.

[Warriorsaint]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

There was a piece on the news last night about Royal Wootton Bassett and remembering all the fallen soldiers, the ones you've clearly stated have been forgotten.

Now you say that of course they haven't been forgotten.

We'll put this down to 'more shit Warriorsaint has made up to try and goad a reaction' shall we?

Really wrong you are. So much anger and hate. Calm down.

[kyle04]

56 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I tell you what, if the Taliban were around the corner over here and our army was disintegrating we would be running away. Dont think our society now would stand up and fight them. 

Our armed forces would have done though.

[OldNick]

31 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Our armed forces would have done though.

Its impossible to say, the modern professional army yes but a conscript army perhaps not , just look how the Japanese walked through us in WWII with low morale and the cry of 'Here come the Japs' and how we disintegrated. The fear of the barbaric hoards coming at you would weaken resolve in most

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, OldNick said:

Its impossible to say, the modern professional army yes but a conscript army perhaps not , just look how the Japanese walked through us in WWII with low morale and the cry of 'Here come the Japs' and how we disintegrated. The fear of the barbaric hoards coming at you would weaken resolve in most

This isn’t some distant conflict, in unfamiliar territory against the Japanese Imperial Armed Forces. This is pockets of local militia with basic firearms, little infrastructure or organisation.

 

It’s easy to sit behind a keyboard and look hard but I think I’d probably prefer to die fighting the Taliban, rather than wait three weeks for my whole family to be dragged out into the street and beheaded.

[aintforever]

8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s easy to sit behind a keyboard and look hard but I think I’d probably prefer to die fighting the Taliban, rather than wait three weeks for my whole family to be dragged out into the street and beheaded.

I dunno, if everyone else is running to the hills then it's pretty pointless trying to be Rambo and stop them by yourself. If you know you will be a target you will probably be better off fleeing, if you think there is a decent chance you can just keep your head down and be OK that would probably be the best option.

[OldNick]

22 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

This isn’t some distant conflict, in unfamiliar territory against the Japanese Imperial Armed Forces. This is pockets of local militia with basic firearms, little infrastructure or organisation.

 

It’s easy to sit behind a keyboard and look hard but I think I’d probably prefer to die fighting the Taliban, rather than wait three weeks for my whole family to be dragged out into the street and beheaded.

They are not still hillfighters with muskets, they are armed pretty well by the Russians and Chinese plus anything they get that has been left behind.

It was the air power tht was the big difference

[kyle04]

43 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Its impossible to say, the modern professional army yes but a conscript army perhaps not , just look how the Japanese walked through us in WWII with low morale and the cry of 'Here come the Japs' and how we disintegrated. The fear of the barbaric hoards coming at you would weaken resolve in most

Perhaps, the British in the Malayan peninsula were outnumbered and ill equipped, and the conditions were pretty horrendous. Also the leadership fell way short tactically. The Japanese were a formidable fighting force, something the British were certainly not used to. I think the Aghanistan "surrender" was pretty much pre-ordained though.

20 minutes ago, OldNick said:

They are not still hillfighters with muskets, they are armed pretty well by the Russians and Chinese plus anything they get that has been left behind.

It was the air power tht was the big difference

Good point, air power in that sort of terrain would have been a game changer.

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, kyle04 said:

Perhaps, the British in the Malayan peninsula were outnumbered and ill equipped, and the conditions were pretty horrendous. Also the leadership fell way short tactically. The Japanese were a formidable fighting force, something the British were certainly not used to. I think the Aghanistan "surrender" was pretty much pre-ordained though.

Good point, air power in that sort of terrain would have been a game changer.

It was just not Malaya. 

Airpower in all theatres is paramount, had the US still been there using that force the taliban would not have made their gains IMO.

Truth is that similar to Vietnam once the US were ready to go the people who helped them were thrown to the wolves. Politicians are only worried about their standing and so forget the real victims.

It saddens me to think of those poor people in fear of their lives and how the young girls whole lives are likely to be suppressed.

[badgerx16]

17 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Perhaps, the British in the Malayan peninsula were outnumbered and ill equipped, .....

Taking this off thread but the Commonwealth forces outnumbered the Japanese at Singapore, and the demand that the British surrender was actually a bluff - the Japanese were almost out of food and ammunition. General Percival ignored his orders and capitulated immediately he was asked.

However, by 1944, in Burma, the "forgotten" 14th Army dealt out the only major mainland defeat the Japanese army suffered in South East Asia. The Japanese were not supermen and hated fighting in the jungle as much as we did.

[OldNick]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Taking this off thread but the Commonwealth forces outnumbered the Japanese at Singapore, and the demand that the British surrender was actually a bluff - the Japanese were almost out of food and ammunition. General Percival ignored his orders and capitulated immediately he was asked.

However, by 1944, in Burma, the "forgotten" 14th Army dealt out the only major mainland defeat the Japanese army suffered in South East Asia. The Japanese were not supermen and hated fighting in the jungle as much as we did.

Yes I know about the bluff etc, but we capitulated a lot down to fear.  We fought very hard in time and bravely read about Kohima but the point is,that it is ok us saying to the average Afghan you should have fought, but in certain circumstances we wouldn't either.

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Yes I know about the bluff etc, but we capitulated a lot down to fear.  We fought very hard in time and bravely read about Kohima but the point is,that it is ok us saying to the average Afghan you should have fought, but in certain circumstances we wouldn't either.

The Afghan National Army was badly organised and badly led when left to it's own devices. Troops were moved out of their home districts, away from their families, to areas where different tribes had different customs and dialect, and their pay was directed through their senior officers, who were also inflating the troop numbers to claim additional money. With US or British CandC they were effective, but psycologically they were brittle when faced with an experienced and determined enemy who didn't fear death.

[badgerx16]

Spot the Foreign Secretary

[whelk]

6 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Beautiful example of religious intolerance and racial stereotyping.

The punishment for 'zina' is stoning rather than beheading, but hey, they follow a different religion and have different laws to us so they must all be uneducated heathens who go round chopping heads off left, right and centre right?

Too right. I’m comfortable saying I hate the cunts. Embrace them all you want sunshine, maybe go and do some charity work over there. Show them you are the better person. They will love you.

[egg]

21 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Spot the Foreign Secretary

Fancy going on holiday during your holidays. Imagine the scandal if there's a school teacher there too. 

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

Fancy going on holiday during your holidays. Imagine the scandal if there's a school teacher there too. 

Bit of a difference between a school teacher, who is not going to be contacted  by his/ her employers, and a Minister of State refusing phone calls during an international emergency.

[egg]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Bit of a difference between a school teacher, who is not going to be contacted  by his/ her employers, and a Minister of State refusing phone calls during an international emergency.

Yep, I get that, but the issues of where he was and his ability / willingness to take calls have been conflated.a

Location firstly. What could he have down about the situation from London that he could not do from Crete? 

[Weston Super Saint]

6 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Has it really got to the poibt where you're defending the Taliban now? 

At no point have I defended the Taliban.

For the record, I don't condone what they do and how they do it.

I do defend the right of an independent country to govern itself independently.  If they want to enact Sharia Law, as they have historically done for hundreds of years, then they are perfectly entitled to do so!

It makes absolutely no difference whether I agree with Sharia Law or not (again, for the record, I don't agree with it) as what they do in their own country is entirely their own business.  Exactly the same as Qatar who have very similar laws, as do many other countries in Africa and Asia, yet we seem more than happy to let them govern themselves with many Westerners supporting them through tourism.

Just seems hypocritical to say that Afghanistan shouldn't be allowed to enact their own laws whilst completely ignoring the multitude of other countries who have the same system!

[whelk]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Yep, I get that, but the issues of where he was and his ability / willingness to take calls have been conflated.a

Location firstly. What could he have down about the situation from London that he could not do from Crete? 

He didn’t take the call because he was on holiday. He wasn’t running command from Crete. 

[egg]

18 minutes ago, whelk said:

He didn’t take the call because he was on holiday. He wasn’t running command from Crete. 

He was unavailable to take the call. We don't know why - the suggestion now seems to be that he kept himself free at all times just in case he had to make or take a call in this very issue. That's nonsensical.

Chances are he may have been unavailable if he was in London or his constituency.

All the sensationalism over this ignores the rather pertinent fact that Afghanistan's foreign ministry refused to talk with a junior minister (a minister, not an office junior) thus losing time. 

[kyle04]

The official line seems to be that he was busy making/taking other calls so delegated to an underling

[badgerx16]

Some reports say that whilst the US was paying for an 'army' of 300 thousand, nearly half of that number are in fact Police officers, and the real number of soldiers is as little as 50 thousand, the rest being 'ghosts' for whom the senior officers were claiming salaries..

[LGTL]

I’m in the US at the moment and the reaction has been interesting. There was no appetite for continuing this war, 2/3’s of US citizens were in favour of them pulling out.

Biden appears to be (cleverly) IMO concentrating on internal US affairs (probably explains why the border is still shut beyond all logic) and this resonates with the American people and is a continuation of Trump policy who was an isolationist.

[Uncle Albert]

22 hours ago, Turkish said:

Lads working out too #gains

 

Talisthenics

[hypochondriac]

3 hours ago, LGTL said:

I’m in the US at the moment and the reaction has been interesting. There was no appetite for continuing this war, 2/3’s of US citizens were in favour of them pulling out.

Biden appears to be (cleverly) IMO concentrating on internal US affairs (probably explains why the border is still shut beyond all logic) and this resonates with the American people and is a continuation of Trump policy who was an isolationist.

Latest opinion polls seem to contradict the picture you're painting: 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/08/18/joe-bidens-approval-slips-lowest-level-wake-rushed-afghanistan/

[Plastic]

Joe Biden doing his best to make a drama out of a crisis. I still understand and sympathise with the objective, but he’s doing an all round bad job here. Apparently ignoring intelligence advice to move more slowly, then telling allies that ‘they had a choice to remain in Afghanistan’, he gives the impression of taking his ball and going home, leaving his friends bewildered. 

 

[badgerx16]

23 minutes ago, Plastic said:

Joe Biden doing his best to make a drama out of a crisis. I still understand and sympathise with the objective, but he’s doing an all round bad job here. Apparently ignoring intelligence advice to move more slowly, then telling allies that ‘they had a choice to remain in Afghanistan’, he gives the impression of taking his ball and going home, leaving his friends bewildered. 

 

And in a far more dangerous position than the US. Refugees aren't going to head for North America, they'll try go West towards Europe, and any terrorism that foments is also more likely to aim at the Middle East and Europe.

[whelk]

America look a lot weaker but Biden is happy. The news cycle will move on. 
I liked Biden before this but can’t stand him now - something about this I don’t know why really. Maybe all the emotional stories. Still fuck empathy let’s think about GDP.