Saints Rainbow Shirt

[sydney_saint]

Just now, Turkish said:

They already are and can can’t they? No one is stopping them. 

I have shown several times in this thread from high level data to personal stories that this is not the case for all LGBT fans. So please stop this roundabout debate. You said yourself that you treat everyone the same, and you are insinuating that you believe that everyone should be able to attend a game free of harassment. So if the latter is not happening for all LGBT fans, then surely something needs to be done for your argument to make sense?

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

The Royal British Legion, which those shirts raise money for, are an active charity that have specific aims and methods to reach those aims. 

The reasoning behind this is a very vague "to increase inclusivity and fight discrimination", with no actual method except just wearing the shirt. I.E, Saints/Hummel's take all the plaudits for signalling their virtue without actually going to any effort at all to do something about what they're campaigning for.

They are raising money for charity, just like the poppy virtual signalling thing.

[Turkish]

58 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

I have shown several times in this thread from high level data to personal stories that this is not the case for all LGBT fans. So please stop this roundabout debate. You said yourself that you treat everyone the same, and you are insinuating that you believe that everyone should be able to attend a game free of harassment. So if the latter is not happening for all LGBT fans, then surely something needs to be done for your argument to make sense?

In an ideal world there would be no victims of any sort of crime. Sadly we don’t live in an ideal world. Personally I have a view that if 9/10 people are going to matches without any problems then we have a good foundation to build on with huge progress being made.

I guess you can look at it two ways, either isn’t it terrible that a small amount of people suffer a form of discrimination, or the other way that a huge majority can go to football with out any problems and for those unfortunate one who do experience problems there are plenty of ways to highlight and deal with the issue. Physical violence is thankfully very rare But there has to be an element of sticks and stones may break my bones (I’m not talking about blatant homophobic hate abuse here). We live in a offended culture where everyone wants to be offended all the time often looking, dare I say it hoping in some cases, to find something to be offended about, often on behalf of other people. I’m sure there are some very naive people out there who want the world to be full of rainbows and dancing with everyone applauding each other but it happens, some people aren’t very nice. 

[Viking Saint]

5 hours ago, Trader said:

Why should anybody assume two blokes walking into a football stadium are a couple?

Do they have labels on them or something?

That has reduced me to tears of helpless laughter for a good twenty minutes. Cheers!!!

[sydney_saint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

In an ideal world there would be no victims of any sort of crime. Sadly we don’t live in an ideal world. Personally I have a view that if 9/10 people are going to matches without any problems then we have a good foundation to build on with huge progress being made.

I guess you can look at it two ways, either isn’t it terrible that a small amount of people suffer a form of discrimination, or the other way that a huge majority can go to football with out any problems and for those unfortunate one who do experience problems there are plenty of ways to highlight and deal with the issue. Physical violence is thankfully very rare But there has to be an element of sticks and stones may break my bones (I’m not talking about blatant homophobic hate abuse here). We live in a offended culture where everyone wants to be offended all the time often looking, dare I say it hoping in some cases, to find something to be offended about, often on behalf of other people. I’m sure there are some very naive people out there who want the world to be full of rainbows and dancing with everyone applauding each other but it happens, some people aren’t very nice. 

Firstly I genuinely appreciate the tone and the language you have used here.

I do think you are getting a little caught up on the 1/10 and not some of the other figures. The 7/10 number is still significant, as it impacts people's behaviour. As I mentioned before, if someone has witnessed a homphobic incident to another person, they are less likely to return to put themselves in that situation again. Some won't give a shit, and some will. And the numbers indicate that quite a large number feel uncomfortable about attending because of the abuse they have witnessed. If i think about my sister, if someone asked her 'have you been directly impacted' the answer would be no. But she will say she has seen it happen, and no longer attends matches so not to put herself in that situation. I suspect the actual number personally impacted would be somewhere between the 1/10 and 7/10 if some people weren't moderating their behaviour. Sure, it's not going to be every game, but across a season, or multiple seasons, the chances increase that it will.

I get what you mean that the world isn't sunshine and happy, and the ideas around offended. And I think it is important to stress that a handful of hysterical people on twitter are not a representation.

I did ask before, and I genuinely ask it in sincerity, about whether you have personally been abused or experienced similar. And maybe you have. I think it is very easy to say stick and stones may break my bones, but unless you have experienced similar, it is harder to make that judgement. I recognise that you have said blatant homophobia is not okay, but it seems that you have decided to draw a line, and those that are in anyway over one side of it are hysterical, attention-seeking woke, and your side is the correct side.  

One example that might blur the line is the word 'faggot', which does get used at the footy still. For a number of LGBT, probably younger generation, that word might mean nothing and so hearing someone screaming it makes no difference. For another it can make them feel really uncomfortable as it is a word with a very loaded history. In the same way a black person would feel uncomfortable someone screaming 'nigger'. In these cases is it stick and stones may break my bones? Or should we try and improve so people can feel comfortable whilst watching their team? 

We can celebrate the progress we have made on these issues whilst still highlighting there is still a bit more to be done. I just don't see what there is for people to get irate about. If it's not for you, that's fine, pay it no attention. Fwiw the shirt and rainbow laces aren't really for me, but I don't see the harm, and don't understand why people do get pissed off by something that just doesn't impact them. If it works for just one fan, then it is worth it in my eyes

 

Edited 10 August, 2021 by sydney_saint

[Turkish]

44 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

Firstly I genuinely appreciate the tone and the language you have used here.

I do think you are getting a little caught up on the 1/10 and not some of the other figures. The 7/10 number is still significant, as it impacts people's behaviour. As I mentioned before, if someone has witnessed a homphobic incident to another person, they are less likely to return to put themselves in that situation again. Some won't give a shit, and some will. And the numbers indicate that quite a large number feel uncomfortable about attending because of the abuse they have witnessed. If i think about my sister, if someone asked her 'have you been directly impacted' the answer would be no. But she will say she has seen it happen, and no longer attends matches so not to put herself in that situation. I suspect the actual number personally impacted would be somewhere between the 1/10 and 7/10 if some people weren't moderating their behaviour. Sure, it's not going to be every game, but across a season, or multiple seasons, the chances increase that it will.

I get what you mean that the world isn't sunshine and happy, and the ideas around offended. And I think it is important to stress that a handful of hysterical people on twitter are not a representation.

I did ask before, and I genuinely ask it in sincerity, about whether you have personally been abused or experienced similar. And maybe you have. I think it is very easy to say stick and stones may break my bones, but unless you have experienced similar, it is harder to make that judgement. I recognise that you have said blatant homophobia is not okay, but it seems that you have decided to draw a line, and those that are in anyway over one side of it are hysterical, attention-seeking woke, and your side is the correct side.  

One example that might blur the line is the word 'faggot', which does get used at the footy still. For a number of LGBT, probably younger generation, that word might mean nothing and so hearing someone screaming it makes no difference. For another it can make them feel really uncomfortable as it is a word with a very loaded history. In the same way a black person would feel uncomfortable someone screaming 'nigger'. In these cases is it stick and stones may break my bones? Or should we try and improve so people can feel comfortable whilst watching their team? 

We can celebrate the progress we have made on these issues whilst still highlighting there is still a bit more to be done. I just don't see what there is for people to get irate about. If it's not for you, that's fine, pay it no attention. Fwiw the shirt and rainbow laces aren't really for me, but I don't see the harm, and don't understand why people do get pissed off by something that just doesn't impact them. If it works for just one fan, then it is worth it in my eyes

 

Have I personally experienced abuse? That depends on what your definition of abuse is. I’ve had p1ss taking about different things, outside a gig in Leeds a few years back a group of lads started singing “Ross Kemp on gangs” at me because I have a slight resemblance to him. Is that abuse or people having a laugh? Perspective, sticks and stones, like I said. Some might have got angry and kicked off, I thought it a was quite funny and gave it back. A number of years ago when out in a group we were set upon by a large group of teenage kids because they thought one of us were gay. (He isnt) it could have been a very nasty situation but with a bit of common sense and not being intimidated the situation was dealt with. A couple of those kids won’t make the same mistake again, put it that way. 
 

my sister and cousin are both gay so I do have some experience of all this by the way. They were both worried about “coming out” but it became so bleeding obvious they didn’t have to and were a bit surprised when they found out we already knew and it was only an issue in their heads. My sister has been a season ticket holder for years and I don’t think she ever experienced anything first hand but then again like me she’s got thick skin and can turn a blind eye to a comment or two and realises that not everyone is as nice as we would like them to be and doesn’t let it stop her living her life the she wants. 
 

so my view on this is I guess influenced by that, why let a few big mouths who you don’t care if they’re alive or dead tomorrow let you stop living your life? Of course physical violence is a different thing altogether but like i said it reality that’s very, very rare. Sadly you will never rid the world of the odd person making comments, so what you going to do, lock yourself away forever because you get upset or get on with your life?

and BTW I responded to you like I did because you seem a decent fella who has a bit of real life experience not screaming from your keyboard how everyone is thick and right wing, tommy Robinson fanatics who hate gays are all over this forum, because they’re offended for others. unlike some on here as this thread have proven. 

Edited 10 August, 2021 by Turkish

[OttawaSaint]

Next week tune in as our our resident Ross Kemp lookalike tackles world hunger....

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Next week tune in as our our resident Ross Kemp lookalike tackles world hunger....

If there was a problem ,yo I’ll solve it…..

[Lighthouse]

10 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Next week tune in as our our resident Ross Kemp lookalike tackles world hunger....

Prawn sandwiches?

[Saint Fan CaM]

19 hours ago, Manuel said:

Why not, I love a bit of nostalgia.  Bungle was my favourite. 

So you liked Djenepo or Redmond? 🤣🤣🤣

[Jeremy Corbyn]

11 hours ago, aintforever said:

They are raising money for charity, just like the poppy virtual signalling thing.

The amount of gammon rage you unleash when you point out that wearing poppies is virtue signalling is quite something.

[Saint_clark]

11 hours ago, aintforever said:

They are raising money for charity, just like the poppy virtual signalling thing.

Indeed they are, but for the Saints Foundation, not for any organisation that will help with the issue of inclusivity and discrimination. 

Compared to the poppy shirts which, as I said, the proceeds from the auction go directly to a charity with specific goals and methods on how it wants to achieve them which are related to the image of the poppy. 

[Saint_clark]

9 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

The amount of gammon rage you unleash when you point out that wearing poppies is virtue signalling is quite something.

An insult based on the colour of ones skin. Thank god white people can't be the victims of racism, eh? 

 

[Saint Fan CaM]

11 hours ago, Turkish said:

In an ideal world there would be no victims of any sort of crime. Sadly we don’t live in an ideal world. Personally I have a view that if 9/10 people are going to matches without any problems then we have a good foundation to build on with huge progress being made.

Thing is, unless society faces up to bigotry and associated abuse the situation will never improve. If the 9/10 stat you quote is correct, it is a likely huge improvement on where the society view was in the 1960’s and that wouldn’t have come about without demonstration, personal testimony and societal reform.

To look at this another way, at what point do we as an intelligent, caring species consider a certain level of abuse acceptable? To the individual on the receiving end the answer would be nil. Anyone who considers themselves to be an intelligent caring person should always refrain from attacking another person because of who they are irrespective of their own views. Zero tolerance is the only way.

[Verbal]

3 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Thing is, unless society faces up to bigotry and associated abuse the situation will never improve. If the 9/10 stat you quote is correct, it is a likely huge improvement on where the society view was in the 1960’s and that wouldn’t have come about without demonstration, personal testimony and societal reform.

To look at this another way, at what point do we as an intelligent, caring species consider a certain level of abuse acceptable? To the individual on the receiving end the answer would be nil. Anyone who considers themselves to be an intelligent caring person should always refrain from attacking another person because of who they are irrespective of their own views. Zero tolerance is the only way.

Well you wouldn't consider turkish's (I actually think inflated) '1/10' acceptable.  In the UK that would mean we have seven million racist abusers.  As you say, zero tolerance is the only way, and we were making progress until populism became all the rage.  Now, not so much...

[Jeremy Corbyn]

17 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

An insult based on the colour of ones skin. Thank god white people can't be the victims of racism, eh? 

 

Haha! Oh dear.

[Mr X]

I can only comment on my own experience at St Mary's but I haven't experienced any direct discrimination in the stadium but there is yes a lot of generalised discriminatory language from shouting fans, I've heard "get up you f!#kin f!go#t!" Or f**king Qu##r A lot when an opposing teams player is rolling around injured. And like people say the Brighton chants aren't going to disappear anytime time soon by the few morons who can't see what an obvious and lazy joke it is like Brighton have never heard that one before! I think a lot of it is unfortunately the culture of football chants and it will take some time to change if at all. Also not all gays are feminine and all lesbians masculine like the media in particular TV likes to show you, a lot simply blend in with the crowd to use a better expression so you would never know one way or another, unless they are holding their partners hand, and most people are wise enough to not take the risk & know that's unfortunately asking for trouble even in this day and age where you'd think people have moved on.  I guess that's something opposite sex couples do take for granted every day the freedom of public affection.  

[aintforever]

56 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Indeed they are, but for the Saints Foundation, not for any organisation that will help with the issue of inclusivity and discrimination. 

Compared to the poppy shirts which, as I said, the proceeds from the auction go directly to a charity with specific goals and methods on how it wants to achieve them which are related to the image of the poppy. 

What the Saints Foundation that don't do things like this:

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1513628

[Turkish]

27 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Thing is, unless society faces up to bigotry and associated abuse the situation will never improve. If the 9/10 stat you quote is correct, it is a likely huge improvement on where the society view was in the 1960’s and that wouldn’t have come about without demonstration, personal testimony and societal reform.

To look at this another way, at what point do we as an intelligent, caring species consider a certain level of abuse acceptable? To the individual on the receiving end the answer would be nil. Anyone who considers themselves to be an intelligent caring person should always refrain from attacking another person because of who they are irrespective of their own views. Zero tolerance is the only way.

Zero tolerance is not the same as zero incidents though is it.  People want to believe that if we applaud all this stuff that eventually Darren, 45 from Thornhill and people like him will stop screaming "get up you poof" when a player is laying on the ground. Is that homophobic abuse or just someone using language which is now not considered acceptable but was common place when Darren was 25? We all know how this will be reported. Should a gay person be offended or feel threatened because they heard someone they dont know 50 yards away shout "get up you poof" at someone else they dont know 100 yards away? I would imagine this is the majority of the homophobia that is reported about, not people being directly abused because of their sexuality. There also needs to be some perspective.  If you think that in 60m people you will never, ever find people who are racist, homophobic etc then you are going to be disappointed. You are dealing with imperfect humans not robots who can be programmed to think a way because that is what society tells them. The problem is that isn't what people want to hear.

[nta786]

https://www.southamptonfc.com/store/training/training-tops/saints-flag-21-22-shirt/c-1/c-517/p-5546

Shirt sold out in an hour 

[Miltonaggro]

23 hours ago, Manuel said:

Why not, I love a bit of nostalgia.  Bungle was my favourite. 

I always thought him a bit of a ponce.  I was a Zippy man at the time, the 70s children's TV equivalent of Piers Morgan. 

When good players are looking to exit Saints they should insist on them wearing this shirt for their farewell message.  That we we should avoid the final year contract scenarios. 

[Chewy]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Zero tolerance is not the same as zero incidents though is it.  People want to believe that if we applaud all this stuff that eventually Darren, 45 from Thornhill and people like him will stop screaming "get up you poof" when a player is laying on the ground. Is that homophobic abuse or just someone using language which is now not considered acceptable but was common place when Darren was 25? We all know how this will be reported. Should a gay person be offended or feel threatened because they heard someone they dont know 50 yards away shout "get up you poof" at someone else they dont know 100 yards away? I would imagine this is the majority of the homophobia that is reported about, not people being directly abused because of their sexuality. There also needs to be some perspective.  If you think that in 60m people you will never, ever find people who are racist, homophobic etc then you are going to be disappointed. You are dealing with imperfect humans not robots who can be programmed to think a way because that is what society tells them. The problem is that isn't what people want to hear.

Maybe the point is Darren, 45 from Thornhill needs to learn to change his language because what was acceptable 20 years ago now isn’t. It’s the whole point of why and how token initiatives like this that don’t generate actual cash for actual charities are still useful and relevant. They highlight the issue and help generate discussions which help generate awareness, and eventually empathy and learning.

40 years ago n1gger and pak1 were common words, but we’d tell Darren 65 from thornhill that it’s not right just because it was ok when he was 25.

I do understand the resistance to having political correctness rammed down our throats but since the pc brigade started I’d suggest there’s been significant (on average, always exceptions) improvement with sexism, racism, homophobia, disability rights etc.

If the choice is wokism and the above improvements v no wokism and a society akin to the football stadium mentality of the 80s when I first started going, I’d take putting up with the pc brigade every day of the week.

[whelk]

What does Darren look like? Hopefully the grass line has been contacted.

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, Chewy said:

Maybe the point is Darren, 45 from Thornhill needs to learn to change his language because what was acceptable 20 years ago now isn’t. It’s the whole point of why and how token initiatives like this that don’t generate actual cash for actual charities are still useful and relevant. They highlight the issue and help generate discussions which help generate awareness, and eventually empathy and learning.

40 years ago n1gger and pak1 were common words, but we’d tell Darren 65 from thornhill that it’s not right just because it was ok when he was 25.

I do understand the resistance to having political correctness rammed down our throats but since the pc brigade started I’d suggest there’s been significant (on average, always exceptions) improvement with sexism, racism, homophobia, disability rights etc.

If the choice is wokism and the above improvements v no wokism and a society akin to the football stadium mentality of the 80s when I first started going, I’d take putting up with the pc brigade every day of the week.

Equally, Darren isn't shouting "get up you poof" because he hates homosexuals it's not directed at a homosexual or meant as homosexual abuse. It's a language that was common place 20 year ago, it doesn't make it right but it also doesn't mean that its homophobic or that a gay person who hears it should be offended or feel threatened. In fact most rational people would be embarassed if they'd said something that could be considered homophobic in the ear shot of a homosexual. The problem is now everyone is so entrenched in a offended culture people are falling over each other is a race to be the first to be offended at every opportunity. Is singing "we can see you holding hands" at Brighton fans homophobic? Some would say yes, but is it really? It's a bit dated, not original and not really very funny the 15th time you've heard it, but in reality why would anyone be offended by a group of fans singing that to another group of fans? 

[Turkish]

Just now, whelk said:

What does Darren look like? Hopefully the grass line has been contacted.

a little bit like Ross Kemp i've heard. 

[Turkish]

20 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

I always thought him a bit of a ponce.  I was a Zippy man at the time, the 70s children's TV equivalent of Piers Morgan. 

When good players are looking to exit Saints they should insist on them wearing this shirt for their farewell message.  That we we should avoid the final year contract scenarios. 

George was definitely ahead of his time for LGBT promotion.

[whelk]

Just now, Turkish said:

a little bit like Ross Kemp i've heard. 

Do we know if he is double vaccinated?

[Lighthouse]

14 minutes ago, Chewy said:

If the choice is wokism and the above improvements v no wokism and a society akin to the football stadium mentality of the 80s when I first started going, I’d take putting up with the pc brigade every day of the week

But it isn’t. As a society grows economically, tolerance and social development go hand in hand. The decline in all forms of discrimination in British society has come about through having better jobs, education and working conditions for everyone. There has been no great war against homophobia, society has simply moved on and it’s faded into the background, with the catalyst of religious dogma also in decline.

[Turkish]

Just now, whelk said:

Do we know if he is double vaccinated?

Despite the rumours to the contrary i've heard he is and also votes labour.

[whelk]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

But it isn’t. As a society grows economically, tolerance and social development go hand in hand. The decline in all forms of discrimination in British society has come about through having better jobs, education and working conditions for everyone. There has been no great war against homophobia, society has simply moved on and it’s faded into the background, with the catalyst of religious dogma also in decline.

A little naive I feel. Just see what can happen in Balkans in 90s to see how this liberal tolerance and acceptance of ones neighbour can change very quickly.

more people coming out as gay clearly helped as people understand how people are no different and not something to be demonised and to stay in the closet - now hardly registers. Not the same in all countries though - see Hungary and Poland.

Although flip side is not far away I like to think Britain has an all round better sense of fair play and tolerance. Don’t think it is an innate human quality though.

[whelk]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Despite the rumours to the contrary i've heard he is and also votes labour.

Surely he must think they are the Islington elite who have lost touch with the working man?

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

A little naive I feel. Just see what can happen in Balkans in 90s to see how this liberal tolerance and acceptance of ones neighbour can change very quickly.

more people coming out as gay clearly helped as people understand how people are no different and not something to be demonised and to stay in the closet - now hardly registers. Not the same in all countries though - see Hungary and Poland.

Although flip side is not far away I like to think Britain has an all round better sense of fair play and tolerance. Don’t think it is an innate human quality though.

Good Post and one I largely agree with. You're correct that the British on average do have high levels of tolerance for others and a sense of fairness. 

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Equally, Darren isn't shouting "get up you poof" because he hates homosexuals it's not directed at a homosexual or meant as homosexual abuse. It's a language that was common place 20 year ago, it doesn't make it right but it also doesn't mean that its homophobic or that a gay person who hears it should be offended or feel threatened. In fact most rational people would be embarassed if they'd said something that could be considered homophobic in the ear shot of a homosexual. The problem is now everyone is so entrenched in a offended culture people are falling over each other is a race to be the first to be offended at every opportunity. Is singing "we can see you holding hands" at Brighton fans homophobic? Some would say yes, but is it really? It's a bit dated, not original and not really very funny the 15th time you've heard it, but in reality why would anyone be offended by a group of fans singing that to another group of fans? 

Good Post. I think what I object to most is the attitude of superiority and condemnation against those who havent necessarily moved at the same pace. I was childhood friends with a group of three brothers who moved away when I was about twelve. This week I've been staying at the house of their parents and they got talking about how all three brothers have signed up to woke ideology to different degrees. They said the worst bit was the tone and language policing of their parents. The mother had been doing something and said "that was such a fag" and then received a lecture from one of her sons which devolved into a blazing row about how unacceptable that word is and how times have moved on and how she's a bigot when she protested. The poor woman was so upset and it made me sad to think that this warped ideology has ruined their relationship with their children to some extent. 

[Sweet dee]

I like it, great that the club is embracing inclusiveness, even better because it gets all the Karen's on here all hot and bothered 😂

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Sweet dee said:

I like it, great that the club is embracing inclusiveness, even better because it gets all the Karen's on here all hot and bothered 😂

And sadly it's this kind of attitude that simply deepens division. Theres too many of these types of people who aren't interested in reducing levels of bigotry and homophobia. Sad. 

Edited 11 August, 2021 by hypochondriac

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Good Post. I think what I object to most is the attitude of superiority and condemnation against those who havent necessarily moved at the same pace. I was childhood friends with a group of three brothers who moved away when I was about twelve. This week I've been staying at the house of their parents and they got talking about how all three brothers have signed up to woke ideology to different degrees. They said the worst bit was the tone and language policing of their parents. The mother had been doing something and said "that was such a fag" and then received a lecture from one of her sons which devolved into a blazing row about how unacceptable that word is and how times have moved on and how she's a bigot when she protested. The poor woman was so upset and it made me sad to think that this warped ideology has ruined their relationship with their children to some extent. 

spot on. A similar thing happened to my friend with his daughter. She's been away at university and has become very woke. When she came back in the summer there was a discussion at a barbeque where he made a comment about how over the top his work is with inclusivity, there is a poster of a transgender chinese person on the cupboard in the kitchen with "inclusivity lives here" slogan. She went apoplectic at his homophobic views when he commented about it being a bit ridiculous, stormed off crying and hasn't spoken to him since. I fell out with a friend of friend who is a primary school teacher a while back for daring to suggest that how could a kid really know at the age of 9 if they were born in the wrong body or not. There is no discussion, no reasoning it was met with a view that you have no right to say that, i am right you are wrong and if you dont like it you are a bigot. 

[Turkish]

28 minutes ago, whelk said:

Surely he must think they are the Islington elite who have lost touch with the working man?

He's not really that bothered. Simple bloke, just likes to go to work, have a couple of pints with his mates, spend a bit of time with the kids and go to the football. Lived in the area all his life, some might look down on him and think he's a thick gammon but he's just a normal hard working bloke content with his life.

[SaintBobby]

I don’t much care about these things one way or another. I think they’re more of a pointless gesture than likely to do any good, but if it does even a minimal amount of good, fair enough.

However, if rich footballers really want to do something to change culture, I wish they’d take some more meaningful steps - like boycotting Qatar or refusing Chinese sponsorship.

The only actions they seem willing to take are ones that involve zero cost, risk or sacrifice. With such a low level of commitment, there is likely to be very little impact on fighting against racism and inequality.

[Mr X]

8 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

I don’t much care about these things one way or another. I think they’re more of a pointless gesture than likely to do any good, but if it does even a minimal amount of good, fair enough.

However, if rich footballers really want to do something to change culture, I wish they’d take some more meaningful steps - like boycotting Qatar or refusing Chinese sponsorship.

The only actions they seem willing to take are ones that involve zero cost, risk or sacrifice. With such a low level of commitment, there is likely to be very little impact on fighting against racism and inequality.

Couldn't agree more if they engaged in meaningful stuff that made a real difference to real people's lives it would be better, this is a start i guess though nd not knocking it  but like you say it's always the easy way. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

Couldn't agree more if they engaged in meaningful stuff that made a real difference to real people's lives it would be better, this is a start i guess though nd not knocking it  but like you say it's always the easy way. 

It’s not a start though. They’ve been doing this t-shirt, laces stuff for years. It’s all a bit pointless 

[Turkish]

31 minutes ago, Sweet dee said:

I like it, great that the club is embracing inclusiveness, even better because it gets all the Karen's on here all hot and bothered 😂

I think you’d struggle to find anyone hot and bothered as much as some like to pretend anyone who does applaud it is. 

[Lighthouse]

49 minutes ago, whelk said:

A little naive I feel. Just see what can happen in Balkans in 90s to see how this liberal tolerance and acceptance of ones neighbour can change very quickly.

more people coming out as gay clearly helped as people understand how people are no different and not something to be demonised and to stay in the closet - now hardly registers. Not the same in all countries though - see Hungary and Poland.

Although flip side is not far away I like to think Britain has an all round better sense of fair play and tolerance. Don’t think it is an innate human quality though.

Yugoslavia has a history of ethnic tension going back centuries and the collapse of all the communist governments in the late 80s just set everything off. It’s not really relevant to this issue.

 

I don’t know much about Hungary but had an ex. Who is Polish and it struck me whenever I went there just how set in its ways and gripped by Christianity the place is. A lot of the younger generation are p*ssed off with the anti-abortion and LGBT attitudes of the establishment.

[Mr X]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s not a start though. They’ve been doing this t-shirt, laces stuff for years. It’s all a bit pointless 

Yes I agree to a certain extent, to sum it up it is good that they are raising awareness (along with all clubs) but what they are doing is a bit of a token gesture and lacking effectiveness.  They aren't doing any frontline work it seems although saints do more than some clubs.

[Sweet dee]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

I think you’d struggle to find anyone hot and bothered as much as some like to pretend anyone who does applaud it is. 

I don't think I'd struggle that much really, but OK 😘

[Sweet dee]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

And sadly it's this kind of attitude that simply deepens division. Theres too many of these types of people who aren't interested in reducing levels of bigotry and homophobia. Sad. 

Confusing reply, but I think what you're saying is my comment made you sad, sorry about that, didn't mean to upset you😘

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Sweet dee said:

Confusing reply, but I think what you're saying is my comment made you sad, sorry about that, didn't mean to upset you😘

You clearly aren't really interested in reducing levels of discrimination and hate, your primary motivation is to support campaigns that upset people that you disagree with politically. It's a shame that there are so many people with the same attitude as you because all its going to cause is division and upset and hate and discrimination will continue. 

[23rdSaint]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Good Post and one I largely agree with. You're correct that the British on average do have high levels of tolerance for others and a sense of fairness. 

Can you share anything to back this up or this another one of your anecdotal claims masquerading as a fact?

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

4 hours ago, nta786 said:

https://www.southamptonfc.com/store/training/training-tops/saints-flag-21-22-shirt/c-1/c-517/p-5546

Shirt sold out in an hour 

Just tried to order one for the collection and saw that. Bit disappointed. Anyone got one they want to sell? 😉

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

You clearly aren't really interested in reducing levels of discrimination and hate, your primary motivation is to support campaigns that upset people that you disagree with politically. It's a shame that there are so many people with the same attitude as you because all its going to cause is division and upset and hate and discrimination will continue. 

Sadly it's a common response. Happy it's winding people up and causing division (they think) than wanting an end to discrimination. 

[Big M]

On 10/08/2021 at 12:36, stevy777_x said:

As a matter of curiosity, how do you react when you see racial and sexual injustices or violence in this world? 
 

Do you shrug your shoulders and just ignore that it exists?

Here's the thing,you see we all know it exists,so we don't need reminding every second of every day that it exists.Simple.