AlexLaw76 Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Turkish said: these "postive moves towards more inclusivity" include a anti racism gesture which has increased racial tension and wearing a t-shirt in an empty stadium. They're fucking nailing it mate. Then, they will all do their utmost to 'make the plane' to the equal-rights mecca that is Qatar. Gays are most certainly not allowed in that village! I bet the rainbow shirts do not quite get there. Edited 10 August, 2021 by AlexLaw76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 8 minutes ago, sydney_saint said: No because they felt unsafe. Let's say you are a gay man going to the football. And let's say you hear another gay man getting abused or harassed based on his sexuality. Maybe that is the last time you go the stadium. Maybe you go again, nothing happens. But a few weeks down the line, it happens again. You think 'Why would I want to keep going, cos what if that happens to me?' Why should someone be made to feel uncomfortable or even unsafe? And why is it so hard to empathise with that sort of situation? You say no one would ever leave the house, but in all seriousness when was the last time you were made to feel like that? Do you have examples of abuse? Genuine question I'm interested to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 Just now, AlexLaw76 said: Then, they will all do their utmost to 'make the plane' to the equal-rights mecca that is Qatar. I bet the rainbow shirts do not quite get there. Exactly. I bet all the ones banging on about it on here wont have any problem watching the Qatar world cup either. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintLondon Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 Madness that this has sparked such a debate, it's clearly a positive statement from the club about inclusivity, that's it, nothing more. Nobody is forcing anything down anyone's throat, it's there for the people that want it. By all means sit behind your keyboards and be angry about the fact the world has moved on from the 70s but to get upset by a colourful shirt to be worn for a 20 min warm up is really rather sad. Oh and for those using the Qatar World Cup as some sort of win, you're allowed to do your job and still oppose aspects of what and where it's being held. Look at Sebastien Vettel a few weeks ago at the Hungarian Grand Prix, he made a statement for by wearing a rainbow t-shirt, he was fined and he made his point. We move on. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 2 minutes ago, SaintLondon said: By all means sit behind your keyboards and be angry about the fact the world has moved on from the 70s but to get upset by a colourful shirt to be worn for a 20 min warm up is really rather sad. Sums it up really, people against this are really rather sad and pathetic. There is no real 'debate' here because that would suggest there is some controversy or that it's a complicated issue, when it isn't, its pretty obvious this is perfectly positive move by the club that no rational or intelligent human being could have an issue with. Which then obviously says a huge amount about the people that do. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 5 minutes ago, Turkish said: Exactly. I bet all the ones banging on about it on here wont have any problem watching the Qatar world cup either. I absolutely have no intention of watching that disgrace of a World Cup thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 Just now, sydney_saint said: I absolutely have no intention of watching that disgrace of a World Cup thank you very much. Well done on your principled stance. Shame the same cannot be said for others eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, sydney_saint said: It's not particularly difficult to work out with some men. If I think of my friends, particularly the couple I know who are United fans, the gaydar almost explodes. I used to work with a gay man, on occasion his partner would come to meet him from work and all the women in the office would say how much of a shame it was that the partner wasn't straight as they all found him attractive. At a management seminar a God botherer walked up to the gay colleague and told him to his face, in front of everybody, that he was an abomination and would burn in Hell. His reply was that it wasn't going to happen as there is no God - the zealot went off seriously offended. Edited 10 August, 2021 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 3 minutes ago, tajjuk said: Sums it up really, people against this are really rather sad and pathetic. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsLoyal Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 Just a tacky pr stunt If you want people to be treated the same you dont create an 'us and them' situation, be that colour of skin or sexual preference. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said: I used to work with a gay man, on occasion his partner would come to meet him from work and all the women in the office would say how much of a shame it was that the partner wasn't straight as they all found him attractive. At a management seminar a God botherer walked up to the gay colleague and told him to his face, in front of everybody, that he was an abomination and would burn in Hell. His reply was that it wasn't going to happen as there is no God - the zealot went off seriously offended. Ha good on him. Shoving it back in the face of bigots is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Do you have examples of abuse? Genuine question I'm interested to know. My memory is not great. I do know most of the incidents take place outside the stadium, particularly post match. A couple that come to mind. I have no idea whether it was walking to or from the stadium. But a group of lads surrounded them and chanted some pretty horrible stuff at them. That was my Manchester friends who were holding hands as they walked either to or from the stadium. I know of another where someone tried to pour his pint over him (he knocked it out of his hands) and called him a fag in the pub. Again it was one of the Machester guys. I don't know of Saints incidents, but that's actually because I know very few Saints fans as I grew up in Sydney I can ask for more though. It's not something we talk about much in all honesty. When we talk football, we want to talk about football, not bring up all the shit. But there absolutely have been incidents. Edited 10 August, 2021 by sydney_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Turkish said: these "postive moves towards more inclusivity" include a anti racism gesture which has increased racial tension and wearing a t-shirt in an empty stadium. They're fucking nailing it mate. As you well know, thousands of people will have seen the social media posts today. To the point where the reach from that massively outstrips the number of fans that'll be in the ground on the day. There's more than one way to get a message across. Do you support inclusivity (and are just unhappy with how this has been handled), or do you not? Edited 10 August, 2021 by ant 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Well done on your principled stance. Shame the same cannot be said for others eh? I don't quite understand your point? There has been LGBT groups that oppose the Qatar World cup. There have been human rights groups that do as well. That tournament should never have been awarded to them, and certainly shouldn't be going ahead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 1 minute ago, sydney_saint said: I don't quite understand your point? There has been LGBT groups that oppose the Qatar World cup. There have been human rights groups that do as well. That tournament should never have been awarded to them, and certainly shouldn't be going ahead. My point is that certain people are happy to make empty gestures towards equality that achieve nothing (or even make situations worse) but when there's an opportunity to make a real statement by boycotting a tournament in a nation with a bit of appaling human rights record then there's largely silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 Does anyone know if it's possible to get a name and number printed on the back of this top? Tempted to get Black Lives Matter with heart shape NHS badges on the sleeves. Will look great at the match 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 Just now, hypochondriac said: My point is that certain people are happy to make empty gestures towards equality that achieve nothing (or even make situations worse) but when there's an opportunity to make a real statement by boycotting a tournament in a nation with a bit of appaling human rights record then there's largely silence. Depends on what you mean by people. If you are talking about the Corporates like Sky and BT. Then no shit. They don't care about any of this. They are only getting involved in issues to try and make money from it. And absolutely give no shits about Qatar's awful record providing the money is right. In terms of ordinary people, there are lots of people who do oppose it. I get what we are missing is an umbrella organisation that can centralise all the opposition, but there have certainly been campaigns from the likes of Oxfam, C4, Guardian etc to boycott. Hopefully as the season progresses we can build something meaningful, but we will need some footballers to break ranks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 3 minutes ago, sydney_saint said: Depends on what you mean by people. If you are talking about the Corporates like Sky and BT. Then no shit. They don't care about any of this. They are only getting involved in issues to try and make money from it. And absolutely give no shits about Qatar's awful record providing the money is right. In terms of ordinary people, there are lots of people who do oppose it. I get what we are missing is an umbrella organisation that can centralise all the opposition, but there have certainly been campaigns from the likes of Oxfam, C4, Guardian etc to boycott. Hopefully as the season progresses we can build something meaningful, but we will need some footballers to break ranks. Genuinely well done to you if you're part of any opposition I think it's disgusting that they were awarded the tournament as its entirely corrupt. What's really needed is some of the players taking a stand as well. That would make a really difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: My point is that certain people are happy to make empty gestures towards equality that achieve nothing (or even make situations worse) but when there's an opportunity to make a real statement by boycotting a tournament in a nation with a bit of appaling human rights record then there's largely silence. I agree, they should boycott Qatar but that doesn't make the shirt thing a bad idea, it's better than nothing and completely harmless. You bang on about it as if they are being made to warm up in JUST the rainbow shirt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, aintforever said: I agree, they should boycott Qatar but that doesn't make the shirt thing a bad idea, it's better than nothing and completely harmless. You bang on about it as if they are being made to warm up in JUST the rainbow shirt. I wasn't talking about the rainbow shirt. Glad we agree. Edited 10 August, 2021 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 3 hours ago, hypochondriac said: Not sure you know what virtue signalling is pal. Hey Buddy, just thought i'd help you with this dictionary definition. Depending on your values, i'm right. Virtue Signalling noun the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, ant said: As you well know, thousands of people will have seen the social media posts today. To the point where the reach from that massively outstrips the number of fans that'll be in the ground on the day. There's more than one way to get a message across. Do you support inclusivity (and are just unhappy with how this has been handled), or do you not? Depends what you mean by "support inclusivity" if you mean do i treat people regardless of colour, race, religion, sexuality on if they're a decent person or not than yes i do. If do you mean i support by jumping on as many bandwagons as possible constantly trying to prove to people i dont know what a lovely guy i am then no. Edited 10 August, 2021 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alehouseboys Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 1 hour ago, benjii said: Turkish is represented by black, cyan, magenta and yellow. Underrated tbf... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manzo Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 Pro tip: whenever you hear "woke" or "virtue signalling", replace them with "Don't be a c*nt to other people". If you're still angry after that, you might want to ask yourself some questions... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 4 minutes ago, manzo said: Pro tip: whenever you hear "woke" or "virtue signalling", replace them with "Don't be a c*nt to other people". If you're still angry after that, you might want to ask yourself some questions... That's odd because some of the biggest c*nts I've ever met have been what would be described as woke and virtue signalling. It's almost like being a c*nt isn't confined to one political ideology. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Force Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 I do not know the power of a shirt but the amount of no virtue being signaled is quite blinding by some around here. All this agro for an ugly shirt and people being upset that picking on people is considered a negative behavior. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 Who knew this would trigger some of the Saintsweb locals? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, whelk said: Who knew this would trigger some of the Saintsweb locals? it's gone rather well 😃 Edited 10 August, 2021 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restark19 Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 (edited) Funny how it's vIrTuE sIgNaLlInG when its gay pride or black lives but not when it's poppys on shirts... Edited 10 August, 2021 by Restark19 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Turkish said: Depends what you mean by "support inclusivity" if you mean do i treat people regardless of colour, race, religion, sexuality on if they're a decent person or not than yes i do. If do you mean i support by jumping on as many bandwagons as possible constantly trying to prove to people i dont know what a lovely guy i am then no. Which is fine, of course, only I’ve never seen you been angry or hilariously sarcastic to racists, homophobes etc and yet one sniff of something too pc and you’re all over it. Interesting why one of those scenarios riles your sense of what’s right and the other doesn’t. Edited 10 August, 2021 by Chewy Typo - riles, not rules 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 23 minutes ago, Restark19 said: Funny how it's vIrTuE sIgNaLlInG when its gay pride or black lives but not when it's poppys on shirts... I thought we were all the same, so why do we need to promote/highlight/support how different we are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 Just now, Chewy said: Which is fine, of course, only I’ve never seen you been angry or hilariously sarcastic to racists, homophobes etc and yet one sniff of something too pc and you’re all over it. Interesting why one of those scenarios rules your sense of what’s right and the other doesn’t. There aren’t any on here and you don’t know me in real life so you Wouldn’t have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 1 hour ago, hypochondriac said: political ideology. Not discriminating against people or hating people and then supporting causes or acts that highlight or speak out against that discrimination or hate is not a 'political ideology'. It's just being a decent human being. Has nothing to do with politics. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 1 hour ago, whelk said: Who knew this would trigger some of the Saintsweb locals? One things it’s triggering in me is my propensity for a migraine. I don’t get them much at all these days but staring at that shirt could set me off. It reminds of the Simpsons episode in Japan where they get frazzled by the TV advert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Turkish said: I thought we were all the same, so why do we need to promote/highlight/support how different we are? We are all the same in terms of our basic human rights. Our rights to education, access to health care, job opportunities, the right to express ourselves etc. We are all different in terms of how we express that. Our differences vary on areas such as gender, sexuality, race, beliefs, etc. and we should celebrate those differences providing someone's identity does not harm others. The issues is that there are a number of very clear examples where people are not allowing those to express themselves in a free manner. And that is why these sort of things are getting brought up. Edited 10 August, 2021 by sydney_saint 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
team-saint Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 I am an actual gay and this shirt is probably one of the most cringeworthy things I've ever seen 🤦♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 18 minutes ago, tajjuk said: Not discriminating against people or hating people and then supporting causes or acts that highlight or speak out against that discrimination or hate is not a 'political ideology'. It's just being a decent human being. Has nothing to do with politics. Being woke has nothing to do with anti discrimination or hate. It actively hates and discriminates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 Just now, team-saint said: I am an actual gay and this shirt is probably one of the most cringeworthy things I've ever seen 🤦♂️ Preach brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Being woke has nothing to do with anti discrimination or hate. It actively hates and discriminates. Against who out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Being woke has nothing to do with anti discrimination or hate. It actively hates and discriminates. No it doesn't, that is trope parroted by the right wing media. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 4 minutes ago, tajjuk said: No it doesn't, that is trope parroted by the right wing media. No it isn't, that is a trope parroted by the left wing media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 16 minutes ago, sydney_saint said: We are all the same in terms of our basic human rights. Our rights to education, access to health care, job opportunities, the right to express ourselves etc. We are all different in terms of how we express that. Our differences vary on areas such as gender, sexuality, race, beliefs, etc. and we should celebrate those differences providing someone's identity does not harm others. The issues is that there are a number of very clear examples where people are not allowing those to express themselves in a free manner. And that is why these sort of things are getting brought up. Why is there a need to celebrate anything? Part of this discussion has been about people not being comfortable attending football Because they are LGBT, it sounds like they just want to left alone to attend a match to the pub or do whatever they want in peace without anyone going on about their sexual orientation. What are we to celebrate? What do they want people to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 23 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Being woke has nothing to do with anti discrimination or hate. It actively hates and discriminates. woke /wəʊk/ verb past of wake1. adjective INFORMAL•US alert to injustice in society, especially racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 1 hour ago, Restark19 said: Funny how it's vIrTuE sIgNaLlInG when its gay pride or black lives but not when it's poppys on shirts... The Royal British Legion, which those shirts raise money for, are an active charity that have specific aims and methods to reach those aims. The reasoning behind this is a very vague "to increase inclusivity and fight discrimination", with no actual method except just wearing the shirt. I.E, Saints/Hummel's take all the plaudits for signalling their virtue without actually going to any effort at all to do something about what they're campaigning for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Turkish said: Why is there a need to celebrate anything? Part of this discussion has been about people not being comfortable attending football Because they are LGBT, it sounds like they just want to left alone to attend a match to the pub or do whatever they want in peace without anyone going on about their sexual orientation. What are we to celebrate? What do they want people to say? I think you are getting caught up on semantics of language there over a single word rather than the rest of the message. I was talking more generally about appreciating that people are different, and that they should be allowed to express that however they like. Edited 10 August, 2021 by sydney_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 God, it’s going to encourage more Nods to start supporting us. “A third person added: "Oh god damn! Am I a Southampton fan now? Recently moved to the south coast - location and family ties would attach me to Pompey, but this is awesome! Well done #SaintsFC." I’d say it’s condescending towards our gay supporters and totally needless. The sooner we stop this pony the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 3 hours ago, Turkish said: Exactly. I bet all the ones banging on about it on here wont have any problem watching the Qatar world cup either. Is Qatar going to be used to hold up about anything done in sport towards inclusion? It is outrageous that they got the World Cup but doesn’t mean throw it at anything to highlight hypocrisy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said: God, it’s going to encourage more Nods to start supporting us. “A third person added: "Oh god damn! Am I a Southampton fan now? Recently moved to the south coast - location and family ties would attach me to Pompey, but this is awesome! Well done #SaintsFC." I’d say it’s condescending towards our gay supporters and totally needless. The sooner we stop this pony the better. Better than the racists that you are scared to stand up to surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_lambden Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 Really says a lot about this forum that there are currently 34 more replies on this topic than the Everton preview one - our first game of the new season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 10 August, 2021 Share Posted 10 August, 2021 2 minutes ago, sydney_saint said: I think you are getting caught up on semantics of language there over a single word rather than the rest of the message. I was talking more generally about appreciating that people are different, and that they should be allowed to express that however they like. They already are and can can’t they? No one is stopping them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts