Saints Rainbow Shirt

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Fair play to the lad for having the balls to come out. I’m sure the fact that he is only 17 is a major factor as he is from a generation where being gay is not a big deal compared to the viewpoint of the gammon generations that preceded his.

 

The truth is the people who grew up in the  60’s & 70’s are more tolerant of peoples lifestyles than than the censorious kill joys masquerading as the “caring “ generation are nowadays. We just didn’t shout about it or use it as a badge of honour, in the whole we just wanted people to live their lives in peace . The threat to homosexuals doesn’t come from us “gammon”, it comes from the Muslim religion. The problem is, people like you won’t even acknowledge it, far easier to knock down a few straw men than to face reality. 

Edited 16 May, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[SylvianSylvian]

[The Cat]

6 hours ago, SylvianSylvian said:

You want a war against people who are, as the dictionary description has it, "well informed and up to date" and "alert to racial and social discrimination or injustice."

Seems a bit unfair because, from that description, those people sound alright to me.

[Lighthouse]

43 minutes ago, The Cat said:

You want a war against people who are, as the dictionary description has it, "well informed and up to date" and "alert to racial and social discrimination or injustice."

Seems a bit unfair because, from that description, those people sound alright to me.

I think what annoys a lot of people is the fact that they have unilaterally proclaimed themselves in this way and the smug, self congratulatory nature in which they talk to other people, rather than what they actually believe.

In essence I’d say ‘woke’ is the liberal version of right wing conspiracy theorists. An overwhelming need to publicly display their superior intellect in the form of pseudo sociopolitical awareness, with flimsy, transparent arguments based on little substance.

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I think what annoys a lot of people is the fact that they have unilaterally proclaimed themselves in this way and the smug, self congratulatory nature in which they talk to other people, rather than what they actually believe.

In essence I’d say ‘woke’ is the liberal version of right wing conspiracy theorists. An overwhelming need to publicly display their superior intellect in the form of pseudo sociopolitical awareness, with flimsy, transparent arguments based on little substance.

that's about the size of it. They are virtue signalling junkies. Desperately finding the most recent cause to attach themselves the public display of superiorty or to show what a lovely, caring person they are. They also appear desperate to tell everyone how terrible the world is but not them, they're trying to help by highlighting how terrible the world is.

[The Cat]

12 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I think what annoys a lot of people is the fact that they have unilaterally proclaimed themselves in this way and the smug, self congratulatory nature in which they talk to other people, rather than what they actually believe.

In essence I’d say ‘woke’ is the liberal version of right wing conspiracy theorists. An overwhelming need to publicly display their superior intellect in the form of pseudo sociopolitical awareness, with flimsy, transparent arguments based on little substance.

Agreed. The way people talk to each other on all sides is a societal problem. It's more just shouting than any actual debate, with many not even considering alternative views to those they already hold.

 

[The Left Back]

8 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The truth is the people who grew up in the  60’s & 70’s are more tolerant of peoples lifestyles than than the censorious kill joys masquerading as the “caring “ generation are nowadays. We just didn’t shout about it or use it as a badge of honour, in the whole we just wanted people to live their lives in peace . The threat to homosexuals doesn’t come from us “gammon”, it comes from the Muslim religion. The problem is, people like you won’t even acknowledge it, far easier to knock down a few straw men than to face reality. 

This is a very rose-coloured of the 60s and 70s.  Homosexuality was still illegal for nearly half of that time and still very much taboo.  Two blokes wandering around holding hands say wouldn't have survived long on the cities of most streets. 

The only tolerance seems to be thinking it was alright for radio 1 DJs and football coaches to take advantage of vulnerable kids.  We seemed to tolerate that very well.

Edited 17 May, 2022 by The Left Back

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, The Left Back said:

This is a very rose-coloured of the 60s and 70s.  Homosexuality was still illegal for nearly half of that time and still very much taboo.  Two blokes wandering around holding hands say wouldn't have survived long on the cities of most streets. 

The only tolerance seems to be thinking it was alright for radio 1 DJs and football coaches to take advantage of vulnerable kids.  We seemed to tolerate that very well.

Libel law in the UK stopped papers publishing anything about Saville . I listened to a prog about our libel law on R4 which was prompted by Vardy/Rooney trial . The point is that only the rich can afford to go to law over libel . A local paper editor said he would settle if he was sent a letter contesting something in his paper as he couldn’t afford to go to court. So not much chance of getting these stories out , Saville threatened anyone with massive lawsuits , pointed out all his friends in high places to keep people quiet.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, The Left Back said:

This is a very rose-coloured of the 60s and 70s.  Homosexuality was still illegal for nearly half of that time and still very much taboo.  Two blokes wandering around holding hands say wouldn't have survived long on the cities of most streets. 

The only tolerance seems to be thinking it was alright for radio 1 DJs and football coaches to take advantage of vulnerable kids.  We seemed to tolerate that very well.

I said people who grew up in the 60’s & 70’s, not The 60’s & 70’s. Basically people who are now 55+ or Gammon to the woke bigots. These people are far less censorious than the generations that followed, far more tolerant and far more open minded than the tight arsed squares shaping culture in the early part of the 21st century.
 

There’s plenty of bigoted wokies around, they just haven’t got the self awareness to realise that’s what they are. 

[Piran]

I think we should have some form of display before kick-off, in support of coming out. Taking the knee has made us all aware of the racism campaign. Maybe a hand stand by the players before kneeling?

[aintforever]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

In essence I’d say ‘woke’ is the liberal version of right wing conspiracy theorists. An overwhelming need to publicly display their superior intellect in the form of pseudo sociopolitical awareness, with flimsy, transparent arguments based on little substance.

That's just bollocks. Woke means to be alert to racial and social discrimination or injustice, you can be woke and not be on social media or say a word to anyone.

There are a lot of woke arseholes around, especially online, but they are just arseholes. You get plenty of arseholes who are not woke.

[East Kent Saint]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I think what annoys a lot of people is the fact that they have unilaterally proclaimed themselves in this way and the smug, self congratulatory nature in which they talk to other people, rather than what they actually believe.

In essence I’d say ‘woke’ is the liberal version of right wing conspiracy theorists. An overwhelming need to publicly display their superior intellect in the form of pseudo sociopolitical awareness, with flimsy, transparent arguments based on little substance.

Woke was adopted by the right wing to try and discredit any challenge to their view , no need for debate just label them woke . It is now just a general term of abuse to shut people up , if you ask anyone what woke means they will give you a different version anyway .

[East Kent Saint]

15 hours ago, Turkish said:

Yes there are a tiny minority of religious families who think that way. Why do you think football is one of the society circles where it’s lacking acceptability? 
 

a lot of Muslim players in the premier league these days, Islam forbids homosexuality. How do you deal with a situation like this if a club had a gay player?

It was a christian belief as well , CofE has moved on ,a bit, from the old days ! Re head coverings that had watered down to men removing hats in Church and women keeping their hats on or women using  wigs as per Jewish practice etc.

[Alanh]

21 hours ago, Turkish said:

If it makes him feel better good for him, it still doesn’t change the fact that it’s no one else’s business. Why should people be “encouraged” to come out an announce their sexuality? It’s a form of pressuring them is it not just so some people can clap along and feel better about themselves for supporting them.

Let's say he is with the rest of his team and they are talking about who they are bringing to the end of season awards.  Most are bringing wives or girlfriends, but he wants to bring his boyfriend.  He's either got to lie about bringing a female friend or he's going to be and honest and truthful individual and say it will be his boyfriend.  To do that he needs to come out.

Another scenario - he's not come out but is seen in public at a gay club or holding hands with his boyfriend.  If he's not come out then rumours start and that puts unnecessary pressure on him and the club to clarify things.

By coming out publicly he's able to be honest in both of the situations above (and any others that are similar) and has to hope that the wider public don't see it as a big deal. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

Woke was adopted by the right wing to try and discredit any challenge to their view , no need for debate just label them woke . It is now just a general term of abuse to shut people up , if you ask anyone what woke means they will give you a different version anyway .

Bit like “right wing” is used to close down and discredit alternative opinions from white people. No need to debate, just label them “right wing” or “gammon “. 

[East Kent Saint]

Anti woke is official Tory policy now , mainly to distract from their extreme agenda . As you say labelling is an easy get out from an argument , unfortunately it’s the norm along with just making things up to make their point ! 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

“Extreme agenda “, dear god. 

[East Kent Saint]

Unfortunately true , just their attitude to the law and their intention to remove the powers from the Supreme court judges should set off the alarm bells . We don’t want to end up with a political Supreme court like USA , Poland or Hungary .

once you chop down all the laws to get to the devil what will you do when he turns on you then ?

Edited 17 May, 2022 by East Kent Saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

No!!!!! Not the Supreme Court, it’s been protecting our historic rights since about 2003. How can we call ourselves a civilised country without that bastion of our liberty. What will we do without it. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

14 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

once you chop down all the laws to get to the devil what will you do when he turns on you then ?

It's been 14 minutes here on MLG watch...

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Alanh said:

Let's say he is with the rest of his team and they are talking about who they are bringing to the end of season awards.  Most are bringing wives or girlfriends, but he wants to bring his boyfriend.  He's either got to lie about bringing a female friend or he's going to be and honest and truthful individual and say it will be his boyfriend.  To do that he needs to come out.

Another scenario - he's not come out but is seen in public at a gay club or holding hands with his boyfriend.  If he's not come out then rumours start and that puts unnecessary pressure on him and the club to clarify things.

By coming out publicly he's able to be honest in both of the situations above (and any others that are similar) and has to hope that the wider public don't see it as a big deal. 

That's a good reason for him to want to come out but that's not a reason why he should be encouraged by others to do so. It's entirely his choice and his business alone. 

[Mr X]

Fook off Jamie redcrap!

[bpsaint]

23 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The truth is the people who grew up in the  60’s & 70’s are more tolerant of peoples lifestyles than than the censorious kill joys masquerading as the “caring “ generation are nowadays. We just didn’t shout about it or use it as a badge of honour, in the whole we just wanted people to live their lives in peace . The threat to homosexuals doesn’t come from us “gammon”, it comes from the Muslim religion. The problem is, people like you won’t even acknowledge it, far easier to knock down a few straw men than to face reality. 

People like me? What are you waffling on about you weirdo. I’ll happily acknowledge it, the bigoted view of Muslim and associated religions towards LGBTQ, and their views on women and lesser beings is vile, and too many people these days aren’t allowed to speak out against them for fear of being called racist.

However whilst you may be an exception, I stick by my point that the generation of people that grew up in the 60s and 70s were less tolerable than the succeeding generation towards those of different sexual orientation or race.

Dont take it to heart, I know it’s the same with my generation, that the two that follow mine are likely more accepting.

Eventually any young gammons or racists will be diluted out with each generation and we’ll live in a world where no one really gives a shit who does what with whom. Then we’ll find something else to worry about.

[Alanh]

15 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

That's a good reason for him to want to come out but that's not a reason why he should be encouraged by others to do so. It's entirely his choice and his business alone. 

Of course it is, but is there any evidence that he has been pressured / encouraged into coming out?  I've missed it if that has happened.

Edited 18 May, 2022 by Alanh

[Turkish]

12 hours ago, bpsaint said:

People like me? What are you waffling on about you weirdo. I’ll happily acknowledge it, the bigoted view of Muslim and associated religions towards LGBTQ, and their views on women and lesser beings is vile, and too many people these days aren’t allowed to speak out against them for fear of being called racist.

However whilst you may be an exception, I stick by my point that the generation of people that grew up in the 60s and 70s were less tolerable than the succeeding generation towards those of different sexual orientation or race.

Dont take it to heart, I know it’s the same with my generation, that the two that follow mine are likely more accepting.

Eventually any young gammons or racists will be diluted out with each generation and we’ll live in a world where no one really gives a shit who does what with whom. Then we’ll find something else to worry about.

Dont you think it's mostly like that already? It seems to be the media and lefties that seem to be pushing us all to been over the moon that people are coming out and they're also the ones that tell us how terrible it when someone says something nasty about someone else. With it all lapped up by those desperate to been seen as lovely people in rush to express their faux delight and outrage depending on the circumstances. 

[Lighthouse]

On 17/05/2022 at 12:46, aintforever said:

That's just bollocks. Woke means to be alert to racial and social discrimination or injustice, you can be woke and not be on social media or say a word to anyone.

It’s not bollocks, that’s exactly the point. The fact that someone would elect themselves as being more socially aware than the average person is in itself presumptuous and likely to cause irritation. It leads to narrow minded thinking and the assumption that if someone disagrees with you, they’re not part of the socially aware elite.

[The Left Back]

On 17/05/2022 at 12:00, Lord Duckhunter said:

I said people who grew up in the 60’s & 70’s, not The 60’s & 70’s. Basically people who are now 55+ or Gammon to the woke bigots. These people are far less censorious than the generations that followed, far more tolerant and far more open minded than the tight arsed squares shaping culture in the early part of the 21st century.
 

There’s plenty of bigoted wokies around, they just haven’t got the self awareness to realise that’s what they are. 

My apologies, I misread that.  Must be my age - I'm 57, so happy you think that makes me more tolerant than the younger generation.  In some ways I agree.  My kids (twenties) would not stand back and tolerate some of the stuff I witnessed when I was their age (homophobic chanting, throwing bananas at black players, chucking piss and coins at each other on the terraces, even abusing officials). Whether that means I'm more tolerant than them I'm not sure.

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

Dont you think it's mostly like that already? It seems to be the media and lefties that seem to be pushing us all to been over the moon that people are coming out and they're also the ones that tell us how terrible it when someone says something nasty about someone else. With it all lapped up by those desperate to been seen as lovely people in rush to express their faux delight and outrage depending on the circumstances. 

I agree things are much much better than they were and we are heading in the right direction.  But I also think expectations are much higher now.  I don't see it as a particularly left/right issue and I think blaming the media is too easy as they are only really a mirror of the views of their audience. I guess there's always been a push pull between those who want more and those think we've come far enough.  

3 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s not bollocks, that’s exactly the point. The fact that someone would elect themselves as being more socially aware than the average person is in itself presumptuous and likely to cause irritation. It leads to narrow minded thinking and the assumption that if someone disagrees with you, they’re not part of the socially aware elite.

Despite my age (see above) I have often been described as woke.  I have no real problem with that other than it's almost always a criticism or just name calling.  I've highlighted the bits of your post I take issue with.  I don't see social awareness as a competition - I've no idea if I am more socially aware than the average person, and I certainly didn't elect myself to be. I wasn't aware there was a socially aware elite, if there is I don't imagine I'm part of it (to be honest I struggle to keep up with pronouns and am not sure I know what the + in LGBT+ stands for)

[aintforever]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s not bollocks, that’s exactly the point. The fact that someone would elect themselves as being more socially aware than the average person is in itself presumptuous and likely to cause irritation. It leads to narrow minded thinking and the assumption that if someone disagrees with you, they’re not part of the socially aware elite.

Yeah, but you can be woke and not elect yourself for anything, that's my point.

[whelk]

My word Lord Dickhead complaining about lazy labelling and proclaiming his tolerance. Seen it all now.

[Turkish]

So with the season over, the launch of Rainbow Saints and the rainbow shirt do we all feel that football is a safer place for LGBTs than it was this time last year?

[East Kent Saint]

22 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So with the season over, the launch of Rainbow Saints and the rainbow shirt do we all feel that football is a safer place for LGBTs than it was this time last year?

You will have to ask them , they may not answer if they think you are a stalker .

[Turkish]

20 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

You will have to ask them , they may not answer if they think you are a stalker .

No responses yet, maybe they are still to scared?

[The Left Back]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

No responses yet, maybe they are still to scared?

More likely they see your question for what it is; i.e. a fishing expedition.

[Turkish]

Just now, The Left Back said:

More likely they see your question for what it is; i.e. a fishing expedition.

Like the one in Gavin and Stacey?

[Turkish]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/20249225.rainbow-saints-sees-huge-growth-lgbtq-supporters/?fbclid=IwAR2Cpw2qmhYdvzOzkrlLypPct3dp0TuWBRxv61GH15s6abD1pXIBMJ7J3Eg
 

👏👏👏👏👏 love this 

Rainbow saints members are exploding too 

[East Kent Saint]

I suppose they heard UB40 singing about being one in ten !

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

I suppose they heard UB40 singing about being one in ten !

Maybe, but despite the impressive 1233% growth  as there are only 40 members of rainbow saints then there is still work to be done. It means either nearly 3,000 match going LGBT fans for some reason haven’t decided they need to be members or there are over 3000 still too scared to go to matches. I wonder which it is? 🤔

[sadoldgit]

On 17/05/2022 at 00:10, Lord Duckhunter said:

The truth is the people who grew up in the  60’s & 70’s are more tolerant of peoples lifestyles than than the censorious kill joys masquerading as the “caring “ generation are nowadays. We just didn’t shout about it or use it as a badge of honour, in the whole we just wanted people to live their lives in peace . The threat to homosexuals doesn’t come from us “gammon”, it comes from the Muslim religion. The problem is, people like you won’t even acknowledge it, far easier to knock down a few straw men than to face reality. 

Absolute pony. As someone who grew up in the 60’s and 70’s I can tell you that racism, homophobic and all that crap was was endemic in my peer group so please don’t pretend it was just the older generation. Yes there were plenty of liberal “woke people too, but the Gammon attitudes crossed all age groups in the 60’s and 70’s. The reason people did speak up against it was because you were seen as odd if you supported black people, gay people, bigots. Alf Garnet was supposed to be a figure of ridicule but many laughed with him instead of at him. Fortunately many people who grew up in the 60’s and 70’s have changed with the times but some, strangely, still call women “chicks” and anyone slightly left of centre “pinkos.” Before you go off one one, just think back to the jokes being told in the playgrounds in those days. They were all racist, sexist and homophobic. The sort you and your crowd probably still tell in your local Duckie. There were plenty of young people throwing bananas on the pitch at football matches. This country was full of bigots of all ages in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. One of the major changes now is if you call out bigotry you get labelled as a “snowflake” or “woke” as if standing up against that kind of thing is bad. Bigotry sucked in the last century and it sucks now. Thankfully more people are prepared to call it out for what it is now, despite those who put more effort into poking fun at “snowflakes” rather than dealing with the actual bigotry itself. These people thrive on todays social media where they can operate with complete anonymity behind a keyboard. We have two people on this forum who think it is amusing to use a doctored picture of someone who made comments about racist remarks as their avatars. Tells you all you need to know about how bigotry is still enabled in this country

[Restark19]

On 02/07/2022 at 18:27, Turkish said:

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/20249225.rainbow-saints-sees-huge-growth-lgbtq-supporters/?fbclid=IwAR2Cpw2qmhYdvzOzkrlLypPct3dp0TuWBRxv61GH15s6abD1pXIBMJ7J3Eg
 

👏👏👏👏👏 love this 

Rainbow saints members are exploding too 

Love that this has rattled you so much that you keep coming back to post snide remarks. Fortunately times have moved on and now you're just another sad old man full of thinly masked hatred for anyone different to yourself. 

[Turkish]

33 minutes ago, Restark19 said:

Love that this has rattled you so much that you keep coming back to post snide remarks. Fortunately times have moved on and now you're just another sad old man full of thinly masked hatred for anyone different to yourself. 

I love that you think I’m rattled and think I hate everyone 👍

[Turkish]

On 03/07/2022 at 18:04, sadoldgit said:

Absolute pony. As someone who grew up in the 60’s and 70’s I can tell you that racism, homophobic and all that crap was was endemic in my peer group so please don’t pretend it was just the older generation. Yes there were plenty of liberal “woke people too, but the Gammon attitudes crossed all age groups in the 60’s and 70’s. The reason people did speak up against it was because you were seen as odd if you supported black people, gay people, bigots. Alf Garnet was supposed to be a figure of ridicule but many laughed with him instead of at him. Fortunately many people who grew up in the 60’s and 70’s have changed with the times but some, strangely, still call women “chicks” and anyone slightly left of centre “pinkos.” Before you go off one one, just think back to the jokes being told in the playgrounds in those days. They were all racist, sexist and homophobic. The sort you and your crowd probably still tell in your local Duckie. There were plenty of young people throwing bananas on the pitch at football matches. This country was full of bigots of all ages in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. One of the major changes now is if you call out bigotry you get labelled as a “snowflake” or “woke” as if standing up against that kind of thing is bad. Bigotry sucked in the last century and it sucks now. Thankfully more people are prepared to call it out for what it is now, despite those who put more effort into poking fun at “snowflakes” rather than dealing with the actual bigotry itself. These people thrive on todays social media where they can operate with complete anonymity behind a keyboard. We have two people on this forum who think it is amusing to use a doctored picture of someone who made comments about racist remarks as their avatars. Tells you all you need to know about how bigotry is still enabled in this country

Here goes Soggy with his White Saviour complex. Who are the people using avatars of people who made racist remarks? I cant think of any.

Edited 4 July, 2022 by Turkish

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Here goes Soggy with his White Saviour complex. Who are the people using avatars of people who made racist remarks? I cant think of any.

 

[Convict Colony]

Saw the title and thought they'd finally come out with a shirt about these legends.

[CB Fry]

along came Zippy, who got a bit lippy, so Bungle filled him in.

[sadoldgit]

56 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

 

It seems that your mate Turkish doesn’t understand English according to his quote in your post. As for this picture, what is it supposed to be about? I have read your posts over the years both as Delldays and then as Batman and the only thing I can work out about your mindset is that you don’t have a problem with any kind of bigotry and go out of your way to have digs at those who oppose it. I guess all those months underwater away from civilisation can have that effect on you?

[Turkish]

49 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It seems that your mate Turkish doesn’t understand English according to his quote in your post. As for this picture, what is it supposed to be about? I have read your posts over the years both as Delldays and then as Batman and the only thing I can work out about your mindset is that you don’t have a problem with any kind of bigotry and go out of your way to have digs at those who oppose it. I guess all those months underwater away from civilisation can have that effect on you?

 

[Restark19]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 

Your disdain for anyone who isn't a bigoted weirdo like yourself is very odd. 

[Turkish]

Just now, Restark19 said:

Your disdain for anyone who isn't a bigoted weirdo like yourself is very odd. 

Not anyone, I just think Soggy, the self appointed voice of the forum when it comes to speaking out against racism, not by actually doing anything of course but posting about it on multiple football forums, is an absolute cock.

[cloggy saint]

15 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not anyone, I just think Soggy, the self appointed voice of the forum when it comes to speaking out against racism, not by actually doing anything of course but posting about it on multiple football forums, is an absolute cock.

At least you're not denying you're a bigoted weirdo.

[Turkish]

Just now, cloggy saint said:

At least you're not denying you're a bigoted weirdo.

Don’t need to, nothing bigoted about laughing at a few self righteous twats thinking they’re saving the world by posting on an Internet forum of a small premier league club