Adam Armstrong

[verlaine1979]

Absolutely woeful tonight. If Shane Long can impose himself on a game, Armstrong should be able to.

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, verlaine1979 said:

Absolutely woeful tonight. If Shane Long can impose himself on a game, Armstrong should be able to.

Unfortunately he was absolutely awful against the kind of opponents he shone against last season.

[Matthew Le God]

Still time to turn things around, but he does look out of his depth at the moment. 

[Sarisbury Saint]

19 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Unfortunately he was absolutely awful against the kind of opponents he shone against last season.

He’s never premier league quality, that was obvious months ago.

[Adman]

He played out of position, in a team with 10 men, calm down

[TWar]

Bit unfair, he was on the wing with 10 men. Broja also didn't impose himself at all when we had 10 men and was far too static, it's hard to play as 10 when the player you have lost is in essence your best creative midfielder who now has to fill in at rb.

[S-Clarke]

Hard game to judge him on really, he wasn't through the middle and we were 10 men.

But he really hasn't impressed me in the slightest over the last 6 months, looks like a complete lower league player out of his depth. No refinement in his game what so ever.

[verlaine1979]

2 hours ago, Adman said:

He played out of position, in a team with 10 men, calm down

Perhaps, but as the game wore on there was so much space against the back line that Diallo, Long, Elyounoussi and others all had moments. You'd imagine if Armstrong actually had the technique to push on he'd have stood out against such stretched opposition, even slightly out of position. Instead, he was completely anonymous.

[woodsaint1]

Yes he was completely anonymous when he came on tonight, but its not an easy game with 10 men to come into (unless you're super ShLong).

Seem to recall him scoring a great goal at Goodison which if it wasnt was some poor defending/ goalkeeping probably would have earned us a point. Also scored an excellent goal to get us the three points against Villa. Pretty sure if he 'wasnt PL quality' or 'out of his depth' we wouldnt have seen those moments.

People need to remember that hes only 5 months into his first PL season, and yes while Broja being the same has outperformed him, he has still played his part and shown that he can get us goals when it matters. Im sure comments above were mirrored on the Che Adams thread. He only scored 4 in his first PL season and took alot of shit on here, but hes turned out alright for us in the long run

[Ed Rooney]

Fuck me 15 starts at the age of 24 stepping up a league and being written off by so many. If he came through our academy he would get so much more patience 

[Maggie May]

3 hours ago, Ed Rooney said:

Fuck me 15 starts at the age of 24 stepping up a league and being written off by so many. If he came through our academy he would get so much more patience 

Exactly. A similar start to his Saints career to Jay Rodriguez when it comes to goals scored at this stage of the season. 

[jimmysaint7]

8 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Perhaps, but as the game wore on there was so much space against the back line that Diallo, Long, Elyounoussi and others all had moments. You'd imagine if Armstrong actually had the technique to push on he'd have stood out against such stretched opposition, even slightly out of position. Instead, he was completely anonymous.

To be fair if long plays a simple 15 yrd pass to him last kick of the game he prob scores,also if it was Armstrong that went through on goal instead of long I guarantee he'd have got a shot away 

[davefizzy14]

13 hours ago, Adman said:

He played out of position, in a team with 10 men, calm down

Exactly this. Some people on here! 

Edited 9 January, 2022 by davefizzy14

[Matthew Le God]

Regardless of him playing wide or centrally, in an eleven man team or with ten men... throughout this season so far he is too easily overpowered and can't retain possession. 

At least when Che Adams was adapting to the Premier League his hold up play was good from day one and he wasn't brushed off the ball.

Hopefully Armstrong improves, but it isn't looking promising as things currently stand.

 

[oldsarum]

How on earth anyone can judge Adam Armstrong on the last two games is beyond me, in both he’s ended up playing as a covering wide man not in attacking role at all due to the sending offs, a role his done well in,  and how many times did he actually receive the ball.

Give the lad a break

 

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, oldsarum said:

How on earth anyone can judge Adam Armstrong on the last two games is beyond me, in both he’s ended up playing as a covering wide man not in attacking role at all due to the sending offs, a role his done well in,  and how many times did he actually receive the ball.

Give the lad a break

 

Playing out of position isn't an excuse for constantly being outmuscled and brushed off the ball.

Edited 9 January, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[stevy777_x]

10 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Playing out of position isn't an excuse for constantly being outmuscled and brushed off the ball.

Exactly, he s not strong physically enough for this level, you could see that from day one.

[The Curse of St Mary's]

Yes he's being played out of position but he offers nothing. We lose all natural balance out wide. Maybe Ralph had one eye on Tuesday but taking off Redmond for Armstrong put us even more on back foot. Same against spurs. Eventually Ralph brought Redmond on which gave us much better balance. 

[Ed Rooney]

May as well write off Will Smallbone then, outmuscled at every opportunity. Oh no he’s one of our own so give him at least 3 seasons to adapt. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

Playing out of position isn't an excuse for constantly being outmuscled and brushed off the ball.

He did a good job against Spurs & was ok yesterday. Personally, I think he lacks that bit of quality needed in the top flight , but to criticise him for the last two games is madness. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Think it's a bit too early to write him off just yet. If we are still talking about this next January, then it might be that he won't make it a Premier League level.

[TWar]

I think his strengths aren't, as it stands, particularly well catered for. He is quick, and likes to run in behind and finish. We need more quality putting him through on goal really, he doesn't want the ball to feet or played into him in the air really, that's not his style of play. Playing off Che and Che setting him through is what his ideal would be but Broja has been too good to drop and Broja is not a creative forward particularly. While this is the case I don't think he will have a great time in the side unless we get a very good creative 10 or one of our existing ones steps up.

[Matthew Le God]

 

19 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He did a good job against Spurs & was ok yesterday. Personally, I think he lacks that bit of quality needed in the top flight , but to criticise him for the last two games is madness. 

Do you think he isn't constantly being outmuscled and brushed off the ball? It has been like that all season, playing with 10 men or out wide doesn't affect it. 

Edited 9 January, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[JibMcdo]

6 minutes ago, TWar said:

he doesn't want the ball to feet or played into him in the air really.

He’s f*cked then isn’t he.

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, JibMcdo said:

He’s f*cked then isn’t he.

Maybe, I mean, Ings also was pretty poor in those areas where he had to compete physically for the ball and he had a 22 goal season. If we have a set up where a support striker (Che for instance) competes for the ball, wins physical battles, and turns and puts him through (Ches biggest strengths) then he could be very good as a pacy, two footed player, if he sorts out his shooting boots. This was probably the thought process when signing him to replace Danny

Edited 9 January, 2022 by TWar

[TWar]

12 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

Do you think he isn't constantly being outmuscled and brushed off the ball? It has been like that all season, playing with 10 men or out wide doesn't affect it. 

I think a striker doesn't need to be strong and able to win physical duels for the ball to be effective. His strengths are clearly not ball into feet (or head in the air) while marked, he wants the ball into space to run on to. Or cut back to him when in space. If we can provide that a bit more I think he'd do very well.

Edited 9 January, 2022 by TWar

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, TWar said:

I think a striker doesn't need to be strong and able to win physical duels for the ball to be effective.

I'm talking about when he has the ball it is easy to take it back off him. That is a problem for any player regardless of position or how many teammates are on the pitch.

I hope things change, but at the moment he offers very little in a positive sense. He shoots at every opportunity even when a pass is the better option, his dribbling runs into dead ends and his hold up play is poor. He is really struggling. Of course things may click and he'll turn it round, but unlike Che Adams who at least had good link up play when he first joined even though things weren't going for him in front of goal.

[Nordic Saint]

9 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think a striker doesn't need to be strong and able to win physical duels for the ball to be effective. His strengths are clearly not ball into feet (or head in the air) while marked, he wants the ball into space to run on to. Or cut back to him when in space. If we can provide that a bit more I think he'd do very well.

 

If only he would do that.

I had high hopes for Armstrong against Swansea as I thought against Championship opposition he might rediscover his Blackburn form but, sadly, once again one of his main problems, his lack of anticipation and poor running off the ball, was very much apparent. He stands still and waits for the ball to be played to his feet instead of running to balls played into space front of him. We know he has great pace but because he waits until after the ball has been passed to start his runs, he never makes full use of it. There was one perfect pass played 20 yards in front of him yesterday, which could easily have resulted in a goal, but he just stood and watched it.  

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

 

If only he would do that.

I had high hopes for Armstrong against Swansea as I thought against Championship opposition he might rediscover his Blackburn form but, sadly, once again one of his main problems, his lack of anticipation and poor running off the ball, was very much apparent. He stands still and waits for the ball to be played to his feet instead of running to balls played into space front of him. We know he has great pace but because he waits until after the ball has been passed to start his runs, he never makes full use of it. There was one perfect pass played 20 yards in front of him yesterday, which could easily have resulted in a goal, but he just stood and watched it.  

I don't think he's had the service tbh. I don't remember the pass you are referring to personally but I think there were two instances where Long could have picked him out but didn't have the quality.

[Nordic Saint]

6 minutes ago, TWar said:

I don't think he's had the service tbh. I don't remember the pass you are referring to personally but I think there were two instances where Long could have picked him out but didn't have the quality.

He's had the service but some of the other players have now stopped bothering playing passes in front of him to run on to because they know he doesn't do it until it's too late, so the ball will just end up with an opposition defender. At Blackburn he played very much the goal hanger/ fox in the box role but in the Premier League players are expected to do much more, including a lot of running off the ball outside the box, which Ings, for example, was very good at. Top Premier League strikers, like Vardy, Son, Salah and Mane, are all masters at it and it's how they get most of their goals. 

Edited 9 January, 2022 by Nordic Saint

[TWar]

Just now, Nordic Saint said:

He's had the service but some of the other players have now stopped bothering playing passes in front of him to run on to because they know he doesn't do it until it's too late, so the ball will just end up with an opposition defender. At Blackburn he played very much the goal hanger/ fox in the box role but in the Premier League players are expected to do much more, including a lot of running off the ball outside the box, which Ings, for example, was very good at.

I don't know if that is true. I think there have been a number of times, both in the Swansea game and before, where players have tried to put him through but have hit the defender or underhit/overhit the pass. Long in the dying minutes, for example.

[Minsk]

It seems Adam Armstrong is becoming the new whipping boy for some. How he can be slagged off for yesterday's performance is beyond me. And to say Long 'embarrassed him' or that he 'should have imposed himself as Long did' displays a clear lack of any footballing nous whatsoever.

As others have mentioned, he came on to play RM, for a definitely flagging Stu, in a match we were 1 up in while playing with 10 men. I would imagine his instructions when coming on were along the lines of: 'You're going to RM. Keep it compact. Support Prowsey. Don't take risks. Only break forward when you are 100% certain you will the ball and are not leaving a gap behind you.' That would have probably changed after we were pegged back. 

How can that be compared to Long, who replaced Broja as the lone striker? They were given different jobs to do. AA's was out of position. Perhaps if roles were reversed he would have done better than Shane? Most certainly Shane did a far better job than Broja, including the 30 minutes the latter was playing in a team with 11 men. Haven't seen any posts saying Long 'embarrassed him' or that he 'should have imposed himself as Long did'. I also don't think Shane would have done any better if it was he playing at RM.

Moreover, I have seen posts digging at Perraud. Also seen many saying Lyanco is too rash and makes many errors. As well as hundreds saying Tino shouldn't be playing at RB; he should be used as a 10 or rested. Broja on the other hand is never criticised. He should play every minute of every game. I expect he is exempt, seeing as he is only a loan. It's almost as if some want our latest signings to fail or, perhaps, to find things to bash Ralph with?

[Piran]

4 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Regardless of him playing wide or centrally, in an eleven man team or with ten men... throughout this season so far he is too easily overpowered and can't retain possession. 

At least when Che Adams was adapting to the Premier League his hold up play was good from day one and he wasn't brushed off the ball.

Hopefully Armstrong improves, but it isn't looking promising as things currently stand.

 

It's good to see you actually offering an opinion MLG, rather than just reacting to others' posts, often completely unnecessarily.

Personally, I think he will improve, and is already improving, and fail to see this weakling you describe. As others have said, I don't feel that the last couple of games, out of position, have been a good time to judge.

We'll see. Fancy a little flutter on his goal output next season?

[wooley7]

4 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Regardless of him playing wide or centrally, in an eleven man team or with ten men... throughout this season so far he is too easily overpowered and can't retain possession. 

At least when Che Adams was adapting to the Premier League his hold up play was good from day one and he wasn't brushed off the ball.

Hopefully Armstrong improves, but it isn't looking promising as things currently stand.

 

This. Was very hopeful that Armstrong would get us goals but he does look like he is struggling at this level. In his first Adam’s showed a lot in his game despite a lack of goals, some nice touches in tight situations aside I haven’t seen much to cling to with Armstrong.

 

 

 

[Chris cooper]

Still finding his way .. he’ll come good next season ..not quite has the pace of the prem .. needs to work on intelligent runs between the lines not just direct running all the time.. his press is good just needs a season to bed in .. che took a couple tbf ! 

[wooley7]

Would like to add; thought he worked hard yesterday and it’s not a lack of effort, just didn’t do anything with the ball.

[TWar]

10 minutes ago, Minsk said:

It seems Adam Armstrong is becoming the new whipping boy for some. How he can be slagged off for yesterday's performance is beyond me. And to say Long 'embarrassed him' or that he 'should have imposed himself as Long did' displays a clear lack of any footballing nous whatsoever.

As others have mentioned, he came on to play RM, for a definitely flagging Stu, in a match we were 1 up in while playing with 10 men. I would imagine his instructions when coming on were along the lines of: 'You're going to RM. Keep it compact. Support Prowsey. Don't take risks. Only break forward when you are 100% certain you will the ball and are not leaving a gap behind you.' That would have probably changed after we were pegged back. 

How can that be compared to Long, who replaced Broja as the lone striker? They were given different jobs to do. AA's was out of position. Perhaps if roles were reversed he would have done better than Shane? Most certainly Shane did a far better job than Broja, including the 30 minutes the latter was playing in a team with 11 men. Haven't seen any posts saying Long 'embarrassed him' or that he 'should have imposed himself as Long did'. I also don't think Shane would have done any better if it was he playing at RM.

Moreover, I have seen posts digging at Perraud. Also seen many saying Lyanco is too rash and makes many errors. As well as hundreds saying Tino shouldn't be playing at RB; he should be used as a 10 or rested. Broja on the other hand is never criticised. He should play every minute of every game. I expect he is exempt, seeing as he is only a loan. It's almost as if some want our latest signings to fail or, perhaps, to find things to bash Ralph with?

Great analysis. People rarely consider context in situations like this. I do think Broja had a poor game, was pretty static, blew a key chance to go two up when on side and on his own in the box, and should have cut it back better to Tella in the box. He doesn't get a mention, yet Armstrong who was brought on out of position with 10 men and missing a creative CM suddenly is getting flack for not having an impact?

Agree on Perraud too, he had an off game but he had a lot of work to do with Tella ahead of him who isn't the best at covering and one of our holding mids out. There was a constant overload onto him. He has looked very solid for the rest of the season so seems a big overreaction when people in the match thread call him crap and a waste of money.

[Sarisbury Saint]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

Great analysis. People rarely consider context in situations like this. I do think Broja had a poor game, was pretty static, blew a key chance to go two up when on side and on his own in the box, and should have cut it back better to Tella in the box. He doesn't get a mention, yet Armstrong who was brought on out of position with 10 men and missing a creative CM suddenly is getting flack for not having an impact?

Agree on Perraud too, he had an off game but he had a lot of work to do with Tella ahead of him who isn't the best at covering and one of our holding mids out. There was a constant overload onto him. He has looked very solid for the rest of the season so seems a big overreaction when people in the match thread call him crap and a waste of money.

Broja wasn’t very good yesterday I agree, but most people can see what he can do on his day. 
Armstrong however hasn’t shown anything yet and I’m not talking about the last two games.

Hopefully he will come good but I just can’t see it.

[Matthew Le God]

30 minutes ago, Piran said:

We'll see. Fancy a little flutter on his goal output next season?

I haven't completely written him off, just passing comment on him as he is at the moment.

[Sarisbury Saint]

38 minutes ago, Piran said:

It's good to see you actually offering an opinion MLG, rather than just reacting to others' posts, often completely unnecessarily.

Personally, I think he will improve, and is already improving, and fail to see this weakling you describe. As others have said, I don't feel that the last couple of games, out of position, have been a good time to judge.

We'll see. Fancy a little flutter on his goal output next season?

Go on then, I’ll ask, what are you offering ?

[Piran]

31 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Go on then, I’ll ask, what are you offering ?

My comment was aimed at MLG, and to his credit he has already replied, but as you're asking, I'd say a decent return next year would be 15 Premier League goals, and I'll wager £10 that he gets them, winnings to a charity of the winner's choice. 

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 minute ago, Piran said:

My comment was aimed at MLG, and to his credit he has already replied, but as you're asking, I'd say a decent return next year would be 15 Premier League goals, and I'll wager £10 that he gets them, winnings to a charity of the winner's choice. 

I’ll take you up on that. 

[Piran]

Okay! Any more of Adam Armstrong's knockers want to join in?

[Smirking_Saint]

5 hours ago, TWar said:

I think a striker doesn't need to be strong and able to win physical duels for the ball to be effective. His strengths are clearly not ball into feet (or head in the air) while marked, he wants the ball into space to run on to. Or cut back to him when in space. If we can provide that a bit more I think he'd do very well.

Unfortunately this isn’t really the way we play, which is an issue.. perhaps its a fault with our scouting staff missing this or perhaps we assumed he could adapt

Either way I agree somewhat with MLG that so far he hasn’t impressed too much

I do think there is a player there, like most strikers he’ll likely have form linked heavily to his confidence and his does seem low.. but he is also likely being played out of position, in a tougher league, with a different tactical approach 

[verlaine1979]

5 hours ago, TWar said:

I think his strengths aren't, as it stands, particularly well catered for. He is quick, and likes to run in behind and finish. We need more quality putting him through on goal really, he doesn't want the ball to feet or played into him in the air really, that's not his style of play. Playing off Che and Che setting him through is what his ideal would be but Broja has been too good to drop and Broja is not a creative forward particularly. While this is the case I don't think he will have a great time in the side unless we get a very good creative 10 or one of our existing ones steps up.

When was the last time we had a striker who played like that? Far too much build up went through Ings to consider him that kind of player.

Moreover, when was the last time we had a central attacking midfielder who could support a player like that? It's not like we have Madison or Tielemans cooling up through balls.

[Matthew Le God]

2 hours ago, Piran said:

I'd say a decent return next year would be 15 Premier League goals, and I'll wager £10 that he gets them, winnings to a charity of the winner's choice. 

15!? 😲

Last season that would have made him the joint 7th top scorer in the Premier League...

1	Harry Kane	Tottenham Hotspur	23
2	Mohamed Salah	Liverpool	22
3	Bruno Fernandes	Manchester United	18
4	Patrick Bamford	Leeds United	17
	Son Heung-min	Tottenham Hotspur
6	Dominic Calvert-Lewin	Everton	16
7	Jamie Vardy	Leicester City	15

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

15!? 😲

Last season that would have made him the joint 7th top scorer in the Premier League...

1	Harry Kane	Tottenham Hotspur	23
2	Mohamed Salah	Liverpool	22
3	Bruno Fernandes	Manchester United	18
4	Patrick Bamford	Leeds United	17
	Son Heung-min	Tottenham Hotspur
6	Dominic Calvert-Lewin	Everton	16
7	Jamie Vardy	Leicester City	15

Too late now, we shook hands on it 😁

[austsaint]

6 hours ago, Piran said:

It's good to see you actually offering an opinion MLG, rather than just reacting to others' posts, often completely unnecessarily.

Personally, I think he will improve, and is already improving, and fail to see this weakling you describe. As others have said, I don't feel that the last couple of games, out of position, have been a good time to judge.

We'll see. Fancy a little flutter on his goal output next season?

I'm confident about Armstrong - he just needs the time, support and the belief gained from confidence in his own game to establish himself at Saints.   I really like our strike force of he, Adams and Broja - each add something different.   A.A. has the speed, touch and two-footedness to provide and score his fair share.    I see a bit of anxiety in his game so far; playing an unfamiliar role and being played out of position aren't helping, nor the lack of a "Tadic" style attacking mid. - he certainly isn't an option for a sole, hold up striking role as Adams and Broja are, yet as a trio they cover most bases you'd want from a strike force for a mid-table side.    

 

[david in sweden]

On 08/01/2022 at 22:26, S-Clarke said:

Hard game to judge him on really, he wasn't through the middle and we were 10 men.

But he really hasn't impressed me in the slightest over the last 6 months, looks like a complete lower league player out of his depth. No refinement in his game what so ever.

Mmm...that sounds like the criticisms that Ché Adams got in his first season....

[John B]

On 09/01/2022 at 16:27, Piran said:

Okay! Any more of Adam Armstrong's knockers want to join in?

Currently he is not a very good PL striker he was signed to replace Ings

 

Of course he could become a 15 goal a season player but that seems unlikely at the moment