Adam Armstrong

[Matthew Le God]

On 09/08/2021 at 10:13, stevy777_x said:

Disapointed we didn t get anyone in europe as my hinch is that Armstrong is not physical enough for the PL.

The guy is small, is not very well built and i m not sure he has enough pace to compensate.

 

On 09/08/2021 at 12:50, revolution saint said:

Adam Armstrong isn't "very quick" according to the people I know who have seen him play (Blackburn fans).  He's got good movement and anticipation but not blessed with outright pace as such. 

 

Adam Armstrong recorded the fastest speed of any Premier League player in the opening round of games...

[revolution saint]

23 hours ago, revolution saint said:

To be honest I need to apologise.  Couple of Blackburn fans I know said he was a bit one paced which seemed strange as he did look quick.  I guess they meant his "one pace" was fast.  They were probably pissed off that we were signing him.

 

8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

Adam Armstrong recorded the fastest speed of any Premier League player in the opening round of games...

 

Already apologised for it a day ago.  Why not take a day off pal?

[The Kraken]

Or longer.

[saintwbu]

Wasn’t at his best today but that’s a goal in his first game, an assist last week (i’ll give it to him despite the dubious goals panel decision) and winning a penalty today. Also played a great through ball for Djenepo’s second great chance. He’s making a good start!

[woodsaint1]

6 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Wasn’t at his best today but that’s a goal in his first game, an assist last week (i’ll give it to him despite the dubious goals panel decision) and winning a penalty today. Also played a great through ball for Djenepo’s second great chance. He’s making a good start!

Still doesnt stop some whining on the match thread

[tajjuk]

I think he really wanted to prove a point at his old club for releasing them and probably tried too hard. But honestly its tough for any striker when a team basically plays a back 5, but he won the pen with good movement and his pace. 

[S-Clarke]

He has good movement, as shown by the winning pen, but he spent a lot of his time outside of the box today - probably to try and find space as they had a back 3. So he wasn't as effective.

He does like to take a shot at any stage, can't complain at that I guess as you never know what could happen - but there are sometimes better options, needs to get his head up.

Personally, I like him. He's not going to hit the levels of Ings, but he adds good pace and movement to our attack similar to Ings - he just won't get the same return, which is why we need others to muck in a bit.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, saintwbu said:

Wasn’t at his best today but that’s a goal in his first game, an assist last week (i’ll give it to him despite the dubious goals panel decision) and winning a penalty today. Also played a great through ball for Djenepo’s second great chance. He’s making a good start!

He’s a handful Alright. He won’t score as many as Ings but of the 4 goals we’ve scored this season he’s had a part in 3 of them, that’s very promising. 

[Red]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

He’s a handful Alright. He won’t score as many as Ings but of the 4 goals we’ve scored this season he’s had a part in 3 of them, that’s very promising. 

I am willing to bet he will score more than Ings last year and the first year Ings joined us - i.e. other than his one wonder season with us, which admittedly was awesome but only one great year in how many in his career? Will be interesting to see who scores more this season between Ings and Armstrong.

AA is younger, more mobile, faster, dare I say fitter so give him a season to bed in and judge him then (remember how poor Ings was in his first season with us, that most on here wanted rid and were willing to drive him?).

[Saint Martini]

12 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

He has good movement, as shown by the winning pen, but he spent a lot of his time outside of the box today - probably to try and find space as they had a back 3. So he wasn't as effective.

He does like to take a shot at any stage, can't complain at that I guess as you never know what could happen - but there are sometimes better options, needs to get his head up.

Personally, I like him. He's not going to hit the levels of Ings, but he adds good pace and movement to our attack similar to Ings - he just won't get the same return, which is why we need others to muck in a bit.

Noticed this too but I think its more to do with ball progression being next to impossible with the congested central midfield. Newcastle essentially played with 3 CBs and 3 CMs against 2 FWs and 2 CMs for Saints. That meant a possibility to overload with one of the 10s + FB + FW on either flank but meant we were one short centrally when we got in promising positions. The opposite 10 should be the one coming into the box with one of the CMs but we usually only did this with one of them and not both at the same time. I think Armstrong curled in three or four crosses from the left side top corner of the box only for it to be too high for Adams and nobody coming in late at the far post.

Not sure if both Armstrong (and Adams to a degree) drifting wide was by design but I don't think it was the right choice. It meant that one of our best finishers was consistently not in a position to do just that. The players were just not playing to their strengths. 

[S-Clarke]

18 minutes ago, Saint Martini said:

Noticed this too but I think its more to do with ball progression being next to impossible with the congested central midfield. Newcastle essentially played with 3 CBs and 3 CMs against 2 FWs and 2 CMs for Saints. That meant a possibility to overload with one of the 10s + FB + FW on either flank but meant we were one short centrally when we got in promising positions. The opposite 10 should be the one coming into the box with one of the CMs but we usually only did this with one of them and not both at the same time. I think Armstrong curled in three or four crosses from the left side top corner of the box only for it to be too high for Adams and nobody coming in late at the far post.

Not sure if both Armstrong (and Adams to a degree) drifting wide was by design but I don't think it was the right choice. It meant that one of our best finishers was consistently not in a position to do just that. The players were just not playing to their strengths. 

Yeah, that's a fair observation. We need to be clever in the 10 position with the ball though, finding those gaps. The trick with a 3 is to tease them out and then be on the shoulder, either wide or centrally. Credit to Redmond as he came on and did that, he made telling passes which split the back 3 - notably the one which won the penalty. 

I know from the outside Moussa was exciting to watch, looked like he was involved etc, but he wasn't looking for those passes and he was just running into blind allies all the time. Ideally it should have been him playing the ball to Armstrong on that 'on one one' chance he had. But he just kept popping up all over the place like an uncontrolled pocket rocket.

[tajjuk]

44 minutes ago, Saint Martini said:

Not sure if both Armstrong (and Adams to a degree) drifting wide was by design but I don't think it was the right choice. 

I think it is by design but is more designed to have an impact in transitions or against less deep defences. In theory it should create some space for the no.10s to break into, hopefully dragging the centre-backs out of position. Breaking down teams like that is just generally hard whoever you are and Newcastle have been like that for a while, I mean you can see why despite results being ok the Geordies are so unhappy, if we played like that at home to another lower half team I would be livid and they do it all the time. We have generally been better away than at home and probably more effective against teams that try to play rather than teams like Burnley, but yesterday Newcastle basically played like the away team. 

It's an area we have struggled with for ages though, even pre-Ralf, teams that just camped in against us, we struggled to break down. Its why I have said we need a 'no.10' who is more like an actual no.10 rather than a wide player, someone who is able to pick clever passes, put good quality balls in, rather than just someone who attacks their man which is what most of our players in those positions do. 

Also having some sort of target man option also helps because it means you can go a bit more direct and just put more crosses in, which is something I think Broja offers us and something we haven't had since Pelle. 

[HKsaint]

39 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

I think it is by design but is more designed to have an impact in transitions or against less deep defences. In theory it should create some space for the no.10s to break into, hopefully dragging the centre-backs out of position. Breaking down teams like that is just generally hard whoever you are and Newcastle have been like that for a while, I mean you can see why despite results being ok the Geordies are so unhappy, if we played like that at home to another lower half team I would be livid and they do it all the time. We have generally been better away than at home and probably more effective against teams that try to play rather than teams like Burnley, but yesterday Newcastle basically played like the away team. 

It's an area we have struggled with for ages though, even pre-Ralf, teams that just camped in against us, we struggled to break down. Its why I have said we need a 'no.10' who is more like an actual no.10 rather than a wide player, someone who is able to pick clever passes, put good quality balls in, rather than just someone who attacks their man which is what most of our players in those positions do. 

Also having some sort of target man option also helps because it means you can go a bit more direct and just put more crosses in, which is something I think Broja offers us and something we haven't had since Pelle. 

Tadic? 

[S-Clarke]

40 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

I think it is by design but is more designed to have an impact in transitions or against less deep defences. In theory it should create some space for the no.10s to break into, hopefully dragging the centre-backs out of position. Breaking down teams like that is just generally hard whoever you are and Newcastle have been like that for a while, I mean you can see why despite results being ok the Geordies are so unhappy, if we played like that at home to another lower half team I would be livid and they do it all the time. We have generally been better away than at home and probably more effective against teams that try to play rather than teams like Burnley, but yesterday Newcastle basically played like the away team. 

It's an area we have struggled with for ages though, even pre-Ralf, teams that just camped in against us, we struggled to break down. Its why I have said we need a 'no.10' who is more like an actual no.10 rather than a wide player, someone who is able to pick clever passes, put good quality balls in, rather than just someone who attacks their man which is what most of our players in those positions do. 

Also having some sort of target man option also helps because it means you can go a bit more direct and just put more crosses in, which is something I think Broja offers us and something we haven't had since Pelle. 

I wonder if Elyounoussi could provide that role you refer to? (the number 10, in behind type). I wouldn't call him a winger as he doesn't have the pace to be a pure wide man, but I've noticed he takes up good positions and finds good pockets of space - I think it was him who played in Moussa in the area from a central position. (the 2nd chance).

Jury is obviously still out, but if he's used his time at Celtic to develop as a player then I think there is something there.

[tajjuk]

6 hours ago, HKsaint said:

Tadic? 

Yes basically Tadic, though he was nowhere near his best in his last years for us. 

6 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I wonder if Elyounoussi could provide that role you refer to? (the number 10, in behind type). I wouldn't call him a winger as he doesn't have the pace to be a pure wide man, but I've noticed he takes up good positions and finds good pockets of space - I think it was him who played in Moussa in the area from a central position. (the 2nd chance).

Jury is obviously still out, but if he's used his time at Celtic to develop as a player then I think there is something there.

He could possibly I think, maybe not to the level we need but he does like you say seem to find good space and have an eye for a pass. 

[verlaine1979]

When we play Ralph's system with Djenepo and Walcott, both ostensible 10s spend the entire game hugging the touchline. That leaves all the central attacking threat to either come from JWP and Romeu (who are both too conservative to play as 10s) or from Adams dropping deep (which he's decent at, to give him his due, but I doubt he'd anyone's idea of a first choice attacking midfield).

If Redmond hadn't already had his one good game for this half of the season, I'd say him and Elyounoussi seem more capable of coming narrow and finding the right pass.

Then all of that aside, I still think our squad is far more suited to 4-2-3-1 than Ralphball as our first choice defensive midfielders are both so lacking in pace for both recovery and transition.

[Singapore Saint]

On 30/08/2021 at 02:14, tajjuk said:

Yes basically Tadic, though he was nowhere near his best in his last years for us. 

Tadic practically kept us up single-handedly with some perfectly-weighted defence-splitting passes in his last few games for us, and carried his good form over to Ajax.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

24 minutes ago, Singapore Saint said:

Tadic practically kept us up single-handedly with some perfectly-weighted defence-splitting passes in his last few games for us, and carried his good form over to Ajax.

Absolutely, he was brilliant during that relegation battle and I was gutted to see him go.  He was a brilliant player but had to be played as a forward in a front 2 or 3 as he was pure attack, don't think he would have worked as one of our current #10s.

[verlaine1979]

Was very optimistic after the way he struck the ball for his debut goal, but I haven't seen him hit a shot like that since. He hasn't had the best service and has been busy getting involved in other goals, but was hoping he'd have tested keepers a bit more by now.

[tajjuk]

9 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Was very optimistic after the way he struck the ball for his debut goal, but I haven't seen him hit a shot like that since. He hasn't had the best service and has been busy getting involved in other goals, but was hoping he'd have tested keepers a bit more by now.

Only one goal yes but his movement and pace has already won one penalty and SHOULD have won him two.  He's caused some problems against some decent teams and not had a lot of chances so I am confident once we get some games against Palace, Norwich, Wolves, Leeds, Watford etc. he will start picking up some more goals. We have been pretty cagey against West Ham and Man City understandably, but still caused City some problems and had a few half chances against Man Utd. 

But I still think he looks good, movement, pace, work rate, doesn't seem that bothered about taking on shots with either foot, and I think he's played a pretty disciplined role for the team, especially in the last few games. 

[The Left Back]

58 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Only one goal yes but his movement and pace has already won one penalty and SHOULD have won him two.  He's caused some problems against some decent teams and not had a lot of chances so I am confident once we get some games against Palace, Norwich, Wolves, Leeds, Watford etc. he will start picking up some more goals. We have been pretty cagey against West Ham and Man City understandably, but still caused City some problems and had a few half chances against Man Utd. 

But I still think he looks good, movement, pace, work rate, doesn't seem that bothered about taking on shots with either foot, and I think he's played a pretty disciplined role for the team, especially in the last few games. 

I'm with you on this.  Based purely on a couple of games I really like his movement.  I think once he gets fully integrated into our system he could be a real handful.  There's something about him that looks the real deal.  Hopefully something like Kevin Phillips when he hits his peak.

Also I remember some Blackburn fans suggestions that he shoots too much.  I like that actually and think we would benefit from having someone like that as we can be a bit goal-shy.

[Matthew Le God]

On 24/09/2021 at 08:19, The Left Back said:

Also I remember some Blackburn fans suggestions that he shoots too much.  I like that actually and think we would benefit from having someone like that as we can be a bit goal-shy.

'Too much' of anything by definition is a bad thing.

[Gru]

40 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

'Too much' of anything by definition is a bad thing.

“Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.”

― Mark Twain

[Dman]

On 22/08/2021 at 15:38, Dman said:

Today has shown the gulf in class between a PL striker and a top end Championship one. Ings scores both of those, very easy, chances. 
 

Feel like we’re gonna have another Adams. Getting into the right positions, but not quite got the ability to take them. 
 

***Edit as only have 3 posts and would like to expand on this**
 

Im not saying either Him or Adams played poor or aren’t good players for us, they did and are both useful. 
 

Im pointing out the difference between the levels and the impact that could have on us. We simply cannot afford to waste chances like that. 
 

RE ings, of course he missed chances and it’s impossible to say for certain, however if he was out there today, there’s a very, very strong chance we walk away with 3 points rather than 1. 
 

And no @OttawaSaint, I’m not Glasgow / Kenya / Hesinburg etc. And it’s not a poke for bites. 

Hammered for this post at the time, but as time has gone on, it’s proven to be absolutely correct. Who’d have thought it, aye. 

[John B]

47 minutes ago, Dman said:

Hammered for this post at the time, but as time has gone on, it’s proven to be absolutely correct. Who’d have thought it, aye. 

I would have 

 

Our srikers are going to take us down it is not their fault we just do not have any money to invest in top class strikers

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, John B said:

I would have 

 

Our srikers are going to take us down it is not their fault we just do not have any money to invest in top class strikers

I do feel sorry for Armstrong, the expectation on him was to be 'Ings'. He had to be, otherwise we'd regress. 

The club put too much faith in the existing group of non-scoring attacking players, so they decided to try and gamble on the replacement in the hope our existing lot would step up (don't forget, we signed Theo too..!!!). Sadly that gamble has so far backfired, the existing players look as hopeless as they ever have in terms of scoring goals and thus the burden lies on the Ings replacement, Armstrong.

I hope he proves me wrong, but when you see a player you often get an idea of their quality and ability - Tino for example, you just knew straight away he had a few levels to go. Armstrong is a case of what you see is what you get, a very lively striker with limited refinement to his overall game.

Edited 13 December, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Minsk]

5 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I do feel sorry for Armstrong, the expectation on him was to be 'Ings'. He had to be, otherwise we'd regress. 

The club put too much faith in the existing group of non-scoring attacking players, so they decided to try and gamble on the replacement in the hope our existing lot would step up (don't forget, we signed Theo too..!!!). Sadly that gamble has so far backfired, the existing players look as hopeless as they ever have in terms of scoring goals and thus the burden lies on the Ings replacement, Armstrong.

I hope he proves me wrong, but when you see a player you often get an idea of their quality and ability - Tino for example, you just knew straight away he had a few levels to go. Armstrong is a case of what you see is what you get, a very lively striker with limited refinement to his overall game.

Nobody expected Arma to be an 'Ings'. Certainly no one I have spoken to and I haven't seen a single post on here saying anyone did (except yours that I've quoted). Still, nice to see you have written him off and don't expect him to improve at all.

I believe the vast majority think/thought he would be a younger, fitter, faster player who would fit into the pressing style. Not as agood a finisher as Ings, not as clinical, not as experienced or composed. A player with ability and rough edges that need to be polished up. Personally I was hoping he would have produced a bit more by now, but he is largely playing as expected. And, do you know what, both Arma and Ings have 2 goals from open play thus far this season. I thought Ings would have been way ahead of him by now. Maybe he will be by season's end; maybe not. Time will tell.

Edited 13 December, 2021 by Minsk

[Saint Garrett]

He’s mostly been the player I was expecting him to be. Lively, busy, works hard, but incredibly wasteful and gives the ball away quite a bit.  Unfortunately this is the market we’re in, due to finances. 

[CB Fry]

4 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I do feel sorry for Armstrong, the expectation on him was to be 'Ings'

According to absolutely no-one, at all, ever.

In real life, and on here, the consensus what that there is no way he could possibly replace what Danny Ings did for us.

[verlaine1979]

47 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

He’s mostly been the player I was expecting him to be. Lively, busy, works hard, but incredibly wasteful and gives the ball away quite a bit.  Unfortunately this is the market we’re in, due to finances. 

I still think Edouard looks like a much better player for the same money.

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

I still think Edouard looks like a much better player for the same money.

Really? I thought he started well but hasn't been amazing since. Keeps getting shifted out wide to facilitate Benteke or whoever and has had fewer goal involvements than Adams and Armstrong and the same number as Broja

[verlaine1979]

19 minutes ago, TWar said:

Really? I thought he started well but hasn't been amazing since. Keeps getting shifted out wide to facilitate Benteke or whoever and has had fewer goal involvements than Adams and Armstrong and the same number as Broja

He's played a lot fewer minutes than Armstrong (698 vs 1089). Assuming 'goal involvements' is just goals plus assists, he's quite comfortably ahead of AA on a per minute basis, though behind Che.

But really I'm just talking about having watched him play a couple of times. To me he just seems like he has more weapons at his disposal, more ways of imposing himself on the game than Armstrong.

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

According to absolutely no-one, at all, ever.

In real life, and on here, the consensus what that there is no way he could possibly replace what Danny Ings did for us.

Umm, I did.

The crocked version of Ings, admittedly.

[TWar]

9 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

He's played a lot fewer minutes than Armstrong (698 vs 1089). Assuming 'goal involvements' is just goals plus assists, he's quite comfortably ahead of AA on a per minute basis, though behind Che.

But really I'm just talking about having watched him play a couple of times. To me he just seems like he has more weapons at his disposal, more ways of imposing himself on the game than Armstrong.

For goal involvements people often count winning pens. Given this Armstrong has 5 in 1089 or about 0.41 per game. Edouard has 0.38 per 90. For the record, Broja has 0.49 and Adams has 0.52.

The lack of minutes in kind of Edouards own fault. He scored 2 goals in his first 12 minutes in this league and everyone thought he was the business. Unfortunately since then he has had one goal involvement in his last 11 games. He is being dropped a bit as he often isn't as effective as Ayew/Benteke.

Edited 14 December, 2021 by TWar

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

For goal involvements people often count winning pens. Given this Armstrong has 5 in 1089 or about 0.41 per game. Edouard has 0.38 per 90. For the record, Broja has 0.49 and Adams has 0.52.

The lack of minutes in kind of Edouards own fault. He scored 2 goals in his first 12 minutes in this league and everyone thought he was the business. Unfortunately since then he has had one goal involvement in his last 11 games. He is being dropped a bit as he isn't as effective as Ayew/Benteke.

Maybe Palace should start him tomorrow if they are looking to reignite his goal scoring.

[Billy the Kidd]

3 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Maybe Palace should start him tomorrow if they are looking to reignite his goal scoring.

To be fair, why not - we are giving goals away for free lately.

We must be one of the only fixtures where Benteke licks his chops and thinks he may actually score.

Edited 14 December, 2021 by Billy the Kidd

[TWar]

Just now, Teddeer said:

Maybe Palace should start him tomorrow if they are looking to reignite his goal scoring.

Palace have a couple of good scorers without him, I'm more scared of Zaha, Eze, and Gallagher. If they did get Edouard firing it's a very frightening attack. Ofcourse the best part of it is going back to Chelsea at the end of the season but for now, that is a very strong attack.

Having said all this, I've definitely jinxed it and Edouard is definitely getting his first goal in 8 games! 

[austsaint]

11 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

He’s mostly been the player I was expecting him to be. Lively, busy, works hard, but incredibly wasteful and gives the ball away quite a bit.  Unfortunately this is the market we’re in, due to finances. 

 I'm taking your comments to be complimentary of A. Armstrong - and I agree.  I'm still confident the wastefulness will give way to goals.   His cause would be greatly improved by better attacking midfielders.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Billy the Kidd said:

To be fair, why not - we are giving goals away for free lately.

We must be one of the only fixtures where Benteke lips his chops and thinks he may actually score.

We are still 12th in the league for goals conceded, joint with United, and 6th for clean sheets. We aren't that leaky. Last game we looked awful defensively, but Salisu is back now and hopefully that'll help a lot alongside Romeu.

[Nemi]

15 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I do feel sorry for Armstrong, the expectation on him was to be 'Ings'. He had to be, otherwise we'd regress. 

The club put too much faith in the existing group of non-scoring attacking players, so they decided to try and gamble on the replacement in the hope our existing lot would step up (don't forget, we signed Theo too..!!!). Sadly that gamble has so far backfired, the existing players look as hopeless as they ever have in terms of scoring goals and thus the burden lies on the Ings replacement, Armstrong.

I hope he proves me wrong, but when you see a player you often get an idea of their quality and ability - Tino for example, you just knew straight away he had a few levels to go. Armstrong is a case of what you see is what you get, a very lively striker with limited refinement to his overall game.

Yeah this sums up the problem really. They should have seen that there wasn’t really a great striker option on the market and tried to diversify where the goals were coming from in our team. 
 

Saints are far too reliant on the strikers to score goals, and they’re probably not good enough to have that burden.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Yeah this sums up the problem really. They should have seen that there wasn’t really a great striker option on the market and tried to diversify where the goals were coming from in our team. 
 

Saints are far too reliant on the strikers to score goals, and they’re probably not good enough to have that burden.

I think it's a longer term building project. We have a lot of options at 10 right now and none are that great. This summer Elyounoussi, Djenepo, Walcott, Tella, and Redmond all go into the final year of their contracts. I think it's likely a couple will be sold and we will bring in a replacement or two. Same situation with the goalkeepers, they didn't want to do everything in one window, there is a longer term plan imo.

For me, new contract for Redmond and Tella, sell Elyounoussi and Djenepo. Stuart Armstrong and Redmond with competition from a new player and Tella seems to be a pretty good set of 10's for me. No idea what to do about Walcott, I guess hold him as no one else will want him on those wages and release for free a year later.

[Billy the Kidd]

8 minutes ago, TWar said:

We are still 12th in the league for goals conceded, joint with United, and 6th for clean sheets. We aren't that leaky. Last game we looked awful defensively, but Salisu is back now and hopefully that'll help a lot alongside Romeu.

We started the season well, for say 8 games or so, now I think we have regressed to how we played for the last year. 

The next two games will be a barometer of this, so hope you’re correct, but wouldn’t be surprised if it continued. 

[TWar]

Just now, Billy the Kidd said:

We started the season well, for say 8 games or so, now I think we have regressed to how we played for the last year. 

The next two games will be a barometer of this, so hope you’re correct, but wouldn’t be surprised if it continued. 

Last season at the back end we also didn't have Salisu at CB and Romeu, Romeu broke his ankle and Salisu was out of position at LB. For me, they, along with Livramento at RB and KWP at LB are massive improvements defensively. Our GK is still wank, our back up is wank, and our emergency loan isn't covering himself in glory but it's a decent defence other than that.

[Billy the Kidd]

17 minutes ago, TWar said:

Last season at the back end we also didn't have Salisu at CB and Romeu, Romeu broke his ankle and Salisu was out of position at LB. For me, they, along with Livramento at RB and KWP at LB are massive improvements defensively. Our GK is still wank, our back up is wank, and our emergency loan isn't covering himself in glory but it's a decent defence other than that.

Yeah I get that, I just meant in terms of leaking goals. 

I do think Salisu and Jack will help, so have hope of a 0-0 tomorrow. 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

3 hours ago, TWar said:

Last season at the back end we also didn't have Salisu at CB and Romeu, Romeu broke his ankle and Salisu was out of position at LB. For me, they, along with Livramento at RB and KWP at LB are massive improvements defensively. Our GK is still wank, our back up is wank, and our emergency loan isn't covering himself in glory but it's a decent defence other than that.

Our defence is definitely better than last season but our attack is definitely worse.  I'd say net, we're marginally better than the disasterclass of the second half of last season.

[TWar]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Our defence is definitely better than last season but our attack is definitely worse.  I'd say net, we're marginally better than the disasterclass of the second half of last season.

I'd argue we are significantly better than our injury ravaged second half, our depth is a lot better too. Our attack is maybe slightly weaker without Ings as he has not really gelled yet but we replaced him with Armstrong and Broja who between them have a pretty good return.

In general I expect we'll finish better than 15th this year, mainly because we actually have other options when our players go down injured.

Edited 14 December, 2021 by TWar

[verlaine1979]

11 hours ago, TWar said:

For goal involvements people often count winning pens. Given this Armstrong has 5 in 1089 or about 0.41 per game. Edouard has 0.38 per 90. For the record, Broja has 0.49 and Adams has 0.52.

The lack of minutes in kind of Edouards own fault. He scored 2 goals in his first 12 minutes in this league and everyone thought he was the business. Unfortunately since then he has had one goal involvement in his last 11 games. He is being dropped a bit as he often isn't as effective as Ayew/Benteke.

Two points:

1. There's no statistical significance to the difference between Armstrong and Edouard's performance based on these numbers.

2. Being able to gradually introduce your new striker because your other ones are playing well is a GOOD thing. Note the way Leicester are easing Daka in too. Inevitably, when most of your minutes are substitute appearances, it's harder to have as big an influence on games as someone who is starting regularly. Again, this is content that the numbers we've been talking about just don't provide.

[TWar]

11 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

Two points:

1. There's no statistical significance to the difference between Armstrong and Edouard's performance based on these numbers.

2. Being able to gradually introduce your new striker because your other ones are playing well is a GOOD thing. Note the way Leicester are easing Daka in too. Inevitably, when most of your minutes are substitute appearances, it's harder to have as big an influence on games as someone who is starting regularly. Again, this is content that the numbers we've been talking about just don't provide.

Most of his minutes aren't substitute appearances, he has started 8 out of 13 since arriving, he just gets subbed off early as he has been pretty ineffective. He also did get a good run of games in the team starting 6 on the bounce, he just got 1 goal and no assist in the run and was subsequently dropped.

Also it's not like Benteke or Ayew have been on fire, Benteke having the same contributions as Armstrong and Ayew only having 2. This "he's being eased in because others are playing well" isn't really true. He had a run of games and didn't do much and was dropped for pretty mediocre forwards.

Edited 14 December, 2021 by TWar

[verlaine1979]

On 14/12/2021 at 12:43, TWar said:

Most of his minutes aren't substitute appearances, he has started 8 out of 13 since arriving, he just gets subbed off early as he has been pretty ineffective. He also did get a good run of games in the team starting 6 on the bounce, he just got 1 goal and no assist in the run and was subsequently dropped.

Also it's not like Benteke or Ayew have been on fire, Benteke having the same contributions as Armstrong and Ayew only having 2. This "he's being eased in because others are playing well" isn't really true. He had a run of games and didn't do much and was dropped for pretty mediocre forwards.

Fair point on the subs appearances - didn't realise he'd started 60% of their games.

Finishing was poor yesterday, but he was a handful and got two assists. If his touch is off, his pace and strength still cause problems. That's what I mean about having more weapons.

[TWar]

1 hour ago, verlaine1979 said:

Fair point on the subs appearances - didn't realise he'd started 60% of their games.

Finishing was poor yesterday, but he was a handful and got two assists. If his touch is off, his pace and strength still cause problems. That's what I mean about having more weapons.

Yeah I was quite impressed with him yesterday, his hold up play was better than I've seen it as before. I think his miss at 1-0 was dire, and the sort of thing we'd crucify Armstrong for, but in general it was a stronger game for him. Especially after the change of shape when Benteke came on.