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Other Games 21/22

whelk

By whelk,
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saint1977

saint1977

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Dreadful - like Saints of March to May 2022 but with white shirts. Sideways, backwards, no attempt to draw them out. Hungary have executed a counter-attacking approach perfectly and we’d love to see that calibre of finishing at SMS. Outclassed over the two games. And it’s four, cut through so easily again. I thought he might survive a 2-0, maybe a 3 but not 4-0 at home. Wolves crowd not shy of saying what they think. Would be expensive to sack him but hard to recover from. Joke sending off but it was over well before then.

Judging by the revival of the cricket team, the football side need to find their own Brendan McCullum to wake them up and lift the shackles.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Apparently our players are tired as they have just finished their season. Have the Germans, Italians, and Hungarians not just done the same ?

Exactly. This was more of a mental switch off rather than a physical one, they were just not there in a mental sense. They didn't want to be there, none of them.

The one guy who probably did and wants to stake his claim (JWP) didn't get a look in.

Give it a few weeks and you'll see all the pictures of them away on their Duabi holidays on the beaches lapping it up. That's where they want to be now.

Edited by S-Clarke
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kyle04

kyle04

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Too many sub standard players on the field really (Phillips, Bowen, Bellingham Saka especially - just not good enough). This whole "tournament" has been a shambles from England and shown Southgate to be the mediocrity he truely is.

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Saint Keef

Saint Keef

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16 minutes ago, The Cat said:

They should go all out to get Pochettino. At least the football would be more exciting.

You beat me to it. He knows the English game. he knows the European game, is familiar with those in and around the squad. Why not?

 

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

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5 minutes ago, Saint Keef said:

You beat me to it. He knows the English game. he knows the European game, is familiar with those in and around the squad. Why not?

Managing England is basically the Eurovision of football. No top manager is really going to take that job seriously, it's almost become a sort of gimmick.

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whelk

whelk

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FA love Southgate so no way he is going anywhere. Just delivers shite football and teams. Watched probably 5 mins of these 4 games. Fuck all interest in England until the World Cup starts. Then I can get really angry. Getting knocked out when it is wet and freezing will be even more depressing than normal

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

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1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

Southgate digging out the players he picked, effectively saying he missed out on being able to play the more experienced and better players.

Also suggesting we were too adventurous 

Return to 5/3 at the back and 2 holding in front against Iran then!

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Also suggesting we were too adventurous 

Return to 5/3 at the back and 2 holding in front against Iran then!

It's all he knows really, he's not what I'd call an attacking manager. He's a defensively minded risk averse manager, so when he tries to play an attacking team with all guns blazing it goes horribly wrong as he has no idea how to balance the transitions.

Stick to what you know Gareth, but sadly that will never get the best out of the players we have.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Don’t worry he has media friends

 

He also said that Southgate is in fact, massively overachieving.

I don't really know how you can overachieve when you have many £100m players in that 11. Underachieve yes, but certainly not overachieve.

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Turkish

Turkish

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7 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He also said that Southgate is in fact, massively overachieving.

I don't really know how you can overachieve when you have many £100m players in that 11. Underachieve yes, but certainly not overachieve.

He actually said compared to other England managers he’s overachieved. A semi final and a final is better than any manager since 1966 so he has a point 

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HarvSFC

HarvSFC

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Feed Kane and he scores 9 times out of 10. My problem is, is that Southgate has had 6 years working with these players and still, if you were a casual football fan, who only watched international tournaments you would think that Kane was a make a wish winner. Southgate's never got the best from our best, despite a golden boot win which saw Kane score just the one goal in open play, which was a deflection against Panama. Too much focus is on the defence, and fortunately we've had Pickford putting in some heroics, as that defence isn't, but if you put Ramsdale in, you get pummelled, as we did tonight.

On another note, Ryan Giggs is the manager of Wales, but hasn't managed a game since November 2020.

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Saint86

Saint86

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At least JWP wasn't involved on either of the Hungary fiascoes.

Reality is southgate had to go after the euros, and I'd say his limitations were obvious after Croatia in the world Cup. The only good game I can remember that is worthy of significant credit, is germany in the euros - and even then that was the worst German team in decades with a very partisan home crowd thanks to covid. He's a nice guy but is shocking manager tactically and clearly can't / won't learn. But for the fa and some fans he's woke and therefore seemingly the best manager for the job 😒

I'd love the FA to be ballsy right now and sack him and go out for a manager whose career highlights don't centre on penalty shootout losses at Wembley. Its that or we waste this generation of players in a 3rd tournament and truly ingrain the sentiments of underachievement and medicrotity in the minds of another generation of fans/players/media pundits. 

Poch would be exciting and a sensible choice. Should tempt him given its a 6month contract and a return to English footy for next year. Ultimatley it's a minimal domestic career break, and a chance to manage one of the best international teams in a world Cup.

Just seen Hungary were starting such epic footballing talent as a young English player who just got relegated with Barnsley, no wonder we could only keep it to a 4-0 home loss... Worst home defeat since 1928 🤣

Edited by Saint86
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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

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8 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

It's all he knows really, he's not what I'd call an attacking manager. He's a defensively minded risk averse manager, so when he tries to play an attacking team with all guns blazing it goes horribly wrong as he has no idea how to balance the transitions.

Stick to what you know Gareth, but sadly that will never get the best out of the players we have.

I agreed with this. Tournament football is seen by some as requiring a more pragmatic, risk based approach. Supposedly due to the fine margins against such talented players. But the fine margins also apply to short camps, where training a group of players from a variety of clubs in various complex tactics is difficult.

We saw that tonight, where errors from Phillips resulted in goals. Then pushing up resulted in more as Hungary finished clinically.

So when Southgate talks about being too attacking or having to get Grealish to understand defensive duties, he has a point. Because chances will be fewer and getting back into a game tougher.

The flip side of this is that, as S-Clarke said, is that he can't get the team to switch to a ruthless attacking unit when required. Worse, the standard transitions offer little when getting between the defensive lines, or breaking down teams is required.

England have a natural finisher, but can't get him chances. There are players who play for teams that rip defences apart in the league, but aren't set up to do that under these tactics. The league nearly all of them play in operates at a tempo that brings the best from their attacks, but is not part of passing it from side to side to slowly build up a chance at Southgate's preferred pace. There's a directness of purpose that's missing, and which they struggle to switch to, when required.

There's also the feeling that some of these players are supported by better players at their clubs, and simply aren't up to dictating games at this level.

His approach has provided a platform to go deep into two tournaments. It can be argued that the opposition wasn't spectacular. But you can only play who you get. He's easily earned taking England to the World Cup, and should be judged on that.

I caught 5 mins of Beeb while making coffee. They were coyly asking Kane about Southgate's future. Not for them of course. But in the interests of their listeners. Right.

In the studio various pundits who still struggle with when the assistant puts their flag up, and who wouldn't be able to train a tactic if Pep's Playbook dropped on their heads, were offering similar insightful remarks. I think it was channel 4 where Joe "show pony" Cole was giving his verdict on players not turning up.

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

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Southgate did brilliantly at the World Cup. The squad had some very average players and it seemed like a new era.

we did great in the euros but we had a dream route to the final. The fact we were winning, at home and then blew it, was a concern.

now, he is literally a walking spreadsheet, who chats about selection around the impact social media has had on players and the need to educate fans, who will become even more risk adverse. JwP or any other fringe player have no chance now!

anyway, only another few weeks before we get to see ‘Raheem’, ‘Trent’ or ‘Hendo’ and co, play well against Fulham and such like and be labelled the “best in the world”

Edited by AlexLaw76
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East Kent Saint

East Kent Saint

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Fortunately I watched Today at the Test before checking in on the football ! even so I gave up just before half time . It was a bit like watching Saints except I didn't care so much that they had a rubbish defence , no penetration ,even when they did break they ran out of steam before getting near the goal .

Not sure what this "tournament " is for or does esp in a WC year . As for the players I think part of the problem is the number of English players playing in the Prem , it must be a bit of a shock to play without your usual world class foreign players .

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rooney

rooney

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9 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Apparently our players are tired as they have just finished their season. Have the Germans, Italians, and Hungarians not just done the same ?

and they only play abut 20mins each per game. They should go 5 sets with Nadal to see what tired and effort means. What a load of Ps

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Toadhall Saint

Toadhall Saint

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Southgate was a defender but only an ok one at best. When you set a team up to be defensive but the defenders you have are worse than you were I’m not quite sure what you expect. The Hungarian first goal just about sums up what a shambles we are. Defending a free kick - leave opposition player all on his own - back of the net and lots of England players looking at one another.

If I was Southgate I’d be playing the we can out score you game - only chance we have.

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Turkish

Turkish

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26 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

Build up to a world Cup, I know, let's mix and match with some players who won't even be selected. 

Gave them a chance to stake their claim. JWP probably had his best game in an england shirt yesterday. Bowen, Saka, Ramsdale all showed they're short of whats needed, Mount is so overrated it's untrue, he'll still go to the world cup though.

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Toussaint

Toussaint

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1 hour ago, danjosaint said:

Showed how overated Phillips is as well, really dreadful, had a part in 3 of the goals and was always a yard to late

He cannot be anywhere near match fit, he only came back for the last few games of the season. I don't know why he needs to play now though, he can regain his sharpness with Leeds over the first half of next season.

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Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

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England have some very fine players, with a couple of elite ones, but not spread evenly across the squad or in key positions.

England have plenty of good right backs, a great striker and some good wingers/wide playmakers. But they are sorely lacking elite players in their spine.

From goalkeeper, through to centre halves and central midfield, I can't think of a single England player who would get into another top international team's first XI. It's a crippling limitation that looks like its catching up with Southgate who is also limited in many ways. 

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Saint Keef

Saint Keef

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4 hours ago, danjosaint said:

Showed how overated Phillips is as well, really dreadful, had a part in 3 of the goals and was always a yard to late

I agree. I know he was out with injury but when he did return for Leeds, I thought he "went missing" in the games I saw him play on Leeds run in.  In my opinion, nowhere near international level. Declan Rice and JWP should be above him in the pecking order.

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

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2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I think England are 2 games away from a world cup and yet who knows who will play centre back or left back.  Absolute piss take putting Reece James as a left back.  

 

totally agree. absolutely no reason at all to do that

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igsey

igsey

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31 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I think England are 2 games away from a world cup and yet who knows who will play centre back or left back.  Absolute piss take putting Reece James as a left back.  

 

Presumably Chilwell will be fit by the WC so it will be him. No idea why Gareth didn't use this as an opportunity to try some other players out there though, the Palace lad has been highly rated this season there particularly. Not sure he understands that there's a big difference between a left back and a right back and just has them as "full back" in his mind?

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