Everton 3-1 Saints - Match Thread

[Colinjb]

Trying to find positives.... Aside from Adam Armstrong i'm struggling.

The fact you can write the script for every single Saints performance without even needing to watch the game is the worst damnation of Ralph's time in charge. 

1. Hope building promising first half, possibly with a goal if you are really lucky.
2. Poor second half with the team getting worse throughout, we will fail to adapt to any moves the opposing manager makes and conceed soft goals.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat. There's just no point right now and will not be until Ralph is put out of his seemingly increasing misery.

Edited 15 August, 2021 by Colinjb

[macca155]

2 hours ago, WALK DMC said:

Like you, I wasn't incredulous when the team was announced and McCarthy had been chosen over Forster. My speculative reasoning is that Saints don't want to buy two new keepers next summer as it will eat into our budget. Forster has rejected a new contract offer but McCarthy has indicated that he will extend. Due to this Ralph would rather favour the longer term option than the better performing individual. 

It is pure supposition, so could be completely wrong - but I just cannot provide any other logical reason why McCarthy was preferred (other than Ralph has lost it). 

Sounds very plausible and probably right. 

However if Ralph continues to select McCarthy, it will inevitably cost him his job.

That whole area needs sorting ASAP.

Salisu needs time to develop and help. He has way too much to do.

I like Stephens and his comments after the game told a story. He's probably a good voice in the dressing room. If he is expressing doubts publicly then perhaps there are more issues going on than we are aware.

[AlexLaw76]

Didn't some claim that ings said that training is mostly shit.?

Maybe it is true.

[macca155]

8 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Yeah, just watched the highlights and Stephens is far too casual and allows Calvert-Lewin to score. He makes no attempt to mark him or apply any pressure. You can't have your centre backs doing that at this level. Trouble is, it seems Ralph and the coaches let things like that go so there will never be any improvement.

MOTD gave a warped view. Yes that was a mistake from Stephens but DCL has done that to many better defenders.

By all accounts Stephens was ok over the 90 mins. He remains a competent back up. Problem is he's no 1 at the moment and that isn't good.

[ErwinK1961]

7 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Sounds very plausible and probably right. 

However if Ralph continues to select McCarthy, it will inevitably cost him his job.

That whole area needs sorting ASAP.

Salisu needs time to develop and help. He has way too much to do.

I like Stephens and his comments after the game told a story. He's probably a good voice in the dressing room. If he is expressing doubts publicly then perhaps there are more issues going on than we are aware.

Hmm, it’s all well and good saying it in post match interviews, but where’s the leadership on the pitch? He’s as guilty as the rest.

“We caused them all sorts of problems but that first goal killed us and we gave them the hope to get something from the game.”

He’s basically saying here that once we conceded the first goal we knew we were going to collapse. That’s not good enough - manager needs to take the majority of the blame but seriously, as a player how weak is that?

[SaintBitterne]

Ralph's tatical incompetence lost us the game. Didn't react to the quick Everton equaliser and then suffered the consequences.

Thought Tino looked good.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, macca155 said:

MOTD gave a warped view. Yes that was a mistake from Stephens but DCL has done that to many better defenders.

By all accounts Stephens was ok over the 90 mins. He remains a competent back up. Problem is he's no 1 at the moment and that isn't good.

Stephens had a several yards start on DCL who just ran past him as if he wasn’t there. All he had to do was match the run and at the very least try to bout him off somehow. We had two defenders there yet neither got anywhere close.

The defence looked as though they had all just met for the first time. This happens a lot when you keep changing personnel.

[Wurzel]

Clutching at straws, but with in-match betting available, waiting for us to take the lead then betting on the opposition could make us all a small fortune.

[Turkish]

16 minutes ago, macca155 said:

MOTD gave a warped view. Yes that was a mistake from Stephens but DCL has done that to many better defenders.

By all accounts Stephens was ok over the 90 mins. He remains a competent back up. Problem is he's no 1 at the moment and that isn't good.

He generally is okay. But he’s always liable to have lapses in concentration or make an error which often leads to a goal. I like Stephens, really want him to do well by time after time he proves there is no way he should be first choice 

[Saint_Jonny]

4 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

Clutching at straws, but with in-match betting available, waiting for us to take the lead then betting on the opposition could make us all a small fortune.

I know a few people that have already been doing this for years. Myself included. 

No panic from me. We have a good squad, hopefully the defence will settle and we'll find our feet before long. Tough old start though. 

[Pamplemousse]

Stephens is a solid back up for this level.

 

Hopefully the black box has already identified our new signing, because we're going to need them. Fast.

[Charlie Wayman]

Bloody weird team selection once again from Hasehüttl and the now inevitable clueless responses to changing circumstances on the field. I hope he doesn't succeed in pissing off a few more of our better players like JWP and SA so that they also join the queue of wanna ways.

There is a growing sense of inevitability about this season.

[beatlesaint]

Having watched that train wreck of a defence for the first and third goals on MOTD I fear for this season even more. The clean sheets in pre-season arent worth jack shit.

Whilst Salisu and Stephens were at fault for those two goals this once again highlights for me the fact defenders are getting confused by having a different keeper behind them every other week. For that first goal surely Forster steps forward and claims the balll, for the second surely Forster is shouting at Stepehns to wake the fuck up?

So yes the defenders were at fault but Ralph is giving them the un-needed problem of playing in front of two very different keepers and thats just plain bloody crazy.

If he has settled on one and its the clown from yesterday then thats another blatant error Ralph.  

[benjii]

23 minutes ago, macca155 said:

MOTD gave a warped view. Yes that was a mistake from Stephens but DCL has done that to many better defenders.

By all accounts Stephens was ok over the 90 mins. He remains a competent back up. Problem is he's no 1 at the moment and that isn't good.

 

12 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Stephens had a several yards start on DCL who just ran past him as if he wasn’t there. All he had to do was match the run and at the very least try to bout him off somehow. We had two defenders there yet neither got anywhere close.

The defence looked as though they had all just met for the first time. This happens a lot when you keep changing personnel.

 

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He generally is okay. But he’s always liable to have lapses in concentration or make an error which often leads to a goal. I like Stephens, really want him to do well by time after time he proves there is no way he should be first choice 

Stephens let DCL drift off him into space at least twice in the first half as well and we were lucky not to concede from simple crosses then. When the ball is out wide he doesn't keep track of his man and gets caught moving towards / under the ball. Stephens is a League One / Champ quality defender and will regularly make serious mistakes leading to goal scoring chances. Any team with someone decent in the air will find it quite easy to score against us if he is in the team. 

As 4th choice, and given the ongoing lack of supply from our academy he's ok, because who are you going to sign as 4th choice(?), but as a regular starter he's a disaster.

If we don't sign a strong centre back who can play with Salisu and bring him through, or an exceptional keeper, we will probably get relegated. We conceded the second most goals last season and yesterday we conceded three to a team who were pretty poor for most of the match. It's not like they were causing lots of problems or scoring world-class goals. We are so easy to score against that we are screwed unless something changes.

[Katalinic]

11 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

Clutching at straws, but with in-match betting available, waiting for us to take the lead then betting on the opposition could make us all a small fortune.

Yep. Got 5-1 on Everton at half time. Would have preferred to have lost my money, but is so inevitable with this lot.

[beatlesaint]

6 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

Stephens is a solid back up for this level.

 

Hopefully the black box has already identified our new signing, because we're going to need them. Fast.

Stephens is back up for this level. 

[Mr X]

Haven't even watched Ralphs post match interview, assume he blamed it all on individual mistakes in the 2nd half and not anything to do with bad management of the game? 

[beatlesaint]

3 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Haven't even watched Ralphs post match interview, assume he blamed it all on individual mistakes in the 2nd half and not anything to do with bad management of the game? 

He enjoyed their second goal, the rest of it made little sense tbh

[Mr X]

2 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

He enjoyed their second goal, the rest of it made little sense tbh

Oh so as much sense in his interview as he provided on the pitch

[Fan The Flames]

Stop the count

[Mr X]

1 hour ago, Colinjb said:

Trying to find positives.... Aside from Adam Armstrong i'm struggling.

The fact you can write the script for every single Saints performance without even needing to watch the game is the worst damnation of Ralph's time in charge. 

1. Hope building promising first half, possibly with a goal if you are really lucky.
2. Poor second half with the team getting worse throughout, we will fail to adapt to any moves the opposing manager makes and conceed soft goals.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat. There's just no point right now and will not be until Ralph is put out of his seemingly increasing misery.

It's almost worth spending some of the remaining money we got for ings and vestergard on paying him out of his contract... How much would that cost us? 

[Billy the Kidd]

It wasnt Ralphs fault the goal came within 2 mins of the re-start and even he must have thought, FFS, not this again.

But it was his choice to pick, IMO, the worst of 2 very poor keepers, and I dont really blame Salisu for leaving the ball thinking our keeper would get it, I’d argue 19 other keepers in the league would have at least tried to get the ball, seeing as he could see Richarlison was hovering - really poor keeping. But the other bit I dont get is that Ralph didnt react in those following 15 mins - fair enough they scored when we started to get back in the game, but in honesty they could have taken the lead prior, such was their dominance. 

So, to say I get his point once we had got back in the game was slightly irrelevant for me, as yes I can see the logic, but he got to that point with a bit of luck that his inactivity in the preceding 15 mins hadn’t caused us to go behind.

And yes, Theo coming off, along with Djennepo for Tella and S Armstrong was a more obvious move, and even if Oriol had to come off, he could still have put Diablo on for him then.

All ifs, buts, and maybe’s - but Ralph is paid to get these things right, and I’m afraid his last 6 months are showing he is in danger of not being able to stem this tidal wave we seem to be on.

I actually wonder if it is stubbornness or arrogance, as I fail to believe he isn’t tactically capable.

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, macca155 said:

MOTD gave a warped view. Yes that was a mistake from Stephens but DCL has done that to many better defenders.

By all accounts Stephens was ok over the 90 mins. He remains a competent back up. Problem is he's no 1 at the moment and that isn't good.

Well, Stephens is competent back up as long as you are prepared to gloss over the fact that he played a huge part in the first and third goals conceded. Swung wildly at an attempted fairly routine clearance and conceded a needless corner and then completely ignored Calvert-Lewin and allowed him a stooping header under no pressure. I''m afraid he is nowhere near the level needed. 

[Saint Billy]

Unusually, I am not as downbeat. We had everything stacked against us. Makeshift defence, changes in personal facing a team riding on the new manager bounce, home crowd in full after lockdown providing extra home crowd advantage. 

I'm for once taking the positives from that performance, wow A Armstrong looks the business, Livra is bloody good.  We rarely start with a win. 

Downsides for me, why no S Armstrong, Walker-Peters and Forster?. 

 

[SaveloyMush]

21 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Was that the 7-1 game?

I can't remember the final score, but I think it was 4 or 5-0 at half-time.

I had scored some corporate tickets, so was sitting in the posh seats. The pie and a pint at half-time weren't a patch on the fine wine and seafood served by Juventus in similar circumstances!

[Mr X]

Looks like Stephens has spoken out indirectly about the management of the game. https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/jack-stephens-southampton-defeat-everton-5788469

[Whitey Grandad]

21 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Well, Stephens is competent back up as long as you are prepared to gloss over the fact that he played a huge part in the first and third goals conceded. Swung wildly at an attempted fairly routine clearance and conceded a needless corner and then completely ignored Calvert-Lewin and allowed him a stooping header under no pressure. I''m afraid he is nowhere near the level needed. 

Stephens is ok as a back up just as long as he stays off the pitch.

[Teddeer]

49 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

He enjoyed their second goal, the rest of it made little sense tbh

We only scored one or are you saying he enjoyed a vital goal scored against us? If so there is something seriously troubling about his thought process.

[david in sweden]

We had several candidates for a 10 rating  in the first half.  Adam Armstrong's debut goal and Tino Livramento's 

start were a real surprise and Tino won some good duels v. Richarlison.   But Rafa changed the playing style afterwards 

and their first goal was the beginning of the end.  All four goals in the game were half-chances that paid off,  but we

lacked service to our " A " men up front and they hardly had a kick in second half. 

Adams seemed strangely quiet,  and Walcott drifted out of the game on several occasions. 

Romeu began well, but tired noticeably late on in the game, and the subs. made little / no impact. 

 

I think Ralph is still undecided on his ideal line-up. We need to give the newcomers game time, but it will take 

time for them to settle in and contribute to the side.  Better to have played this line-up against Everton rather than

Man U . next week, although he began well, I don't see Tino as a regular starter and we ought to have KWP back next week,

but IMHO we badly missed STUART Armstrong who would have fared better against the Everton MF. 

 

The ongoing debate about Stephens as a scapegoat for mistakes .....and who is the better keeper will continue.

Clearly Forster is a burden to the club's economy (whilst his contract lasts), but I would still pick him ahead of McCarthy.

 

 

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

Looks like Stephens has spoken out indirectly about the management of the game. https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/jack-stephens-southampton-defeat-everton-5788469

Shame he fails to admit his part in two of the goals. Head in the sand Jack.

[david in sweden]

29 minutes ago, Mr X said:

It's almost worth spending some of the remaining money we got for ings and vestergard on paying him out of his contract... How much would that cost us? 

.......and you already have a better man lined up ? ........or 

[Mr X]

1 minute ago, Teddeer said:

Shame he fails to admit his part in two of the goals. Head in the sand Jack.

Yes I'm not trying to say he isn't without fault but he kind of hinted that he isn't happy with RH game management how will that go down with Ralph? 

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Wurzel said:

Clutching at straws, but with in-match betting available, waiting for us to take the lead then betting on the opposition could make us all a small fortune.

The way to do it in general is as follows:
Step 1 - For games where we obviously aren't going to get smashed, place a bet on saints for a win or draw pre match.
Step 2 - Cash out at an appropriate time subject to how the game is going - half time is normally sensible.
Step 3 - Watch how the game is going, if its clear that the opposition are going to get back into it (and as saints fans, we can all see those warning signs coming lets be honest) then place the opposing bet on the other side.
Step 4 - Assuming step 3 has been followed - Ralph will invariably deliver.

Step 5 - Collect innings.

🙃

[gordonToo]

53 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Well, Stephens is competent back up as long as you are prepared to gloss over the fact that he played a huge part in the first and third goals conceded. Swung wildly at an attempted fairly routine clearance and conceded a needless corner and then completely ignored Calvert-Lewin and allowed him a stooping header under no pressure. I''m afraid he is nowhere near the level needed. 

The cross into to C-L was clearly telegraphed. It would be a bad goal to give away at any level let alone the Premiership.

[Baird of the land]

I don't see how you really place goal blame on jack for the skewed clearance. You might as well blame livramento then for his failed clearance that led to jack having to try to deal with it.

You'd hope coaches would be drilling it into him though about the way that he too often ball watches and let's his man drift off him. Happened in the first half and fortuntely calvert lewin put it over the bar but there was no let off for that third goal.

[Delmary]

I’m equally frustrated by Ralph’s lack of proactive,  in game management. He’s definitely on borrowed time. However, the spine of the team is weak. Particularly central defence and midfield (except JWP). Until we address these two positions, not even Alex Ferguson could work wonders with this team. Surely, most of our  anger / frustrations should be aimed at the ownership and CEO?

[John Boy Saint]

I just looked at that first goal for Everton again and whilst many are pointing the finger at Salisu - that was more likely down to the cocking about swapping keepers in and out - that’s a deceptive looping ball coming in too high to jump for and being on the edge of the 6 yard box its flight is more a keepers ball - McCarthy, as has become his way, hesitates to come,  the newer version of Fraser having seemingly had the screws removed from his boots on the goal line is going to come and likely punch it. 
Salisu looks wrong footed by the looping flight that McCarthy should come for and it’s in the zone where if he moves any closer to goal he is likely to impede the keeper, and be wiped out by the tree that is Forster if he is there.

The Premier league is tough enough for defenders to keep out Apex Predator goal scorers - without having to also consider the nuances of which keeper is between the sticks this week. We are the only team dicking about rotating the key position of a defence - make a choice stick with him and take one less thought out of the defenders heads. To me, give Forster a proper run. If you have stood on the pitch at St Mary’s and looked at the goal from the edge of the box, it is remarkably much smaller than it looks from the stands and on TV. Stick a unit like Fraser in there, also having the wingspan of an Albatross, and the target is even smaller, meaning whoever is going to take a pot shot is having to consider the shot more, it forces that brief additional moment of thought and allows the defence to close him down even more.

You can’t have settled defence when you are playing lucky dip with the keepers.

[Baird of the land]

10 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

I just looked at that first goal for Everton again and whilst many are pointing the finger at Salisu - that was more likely down to the cocking about swapping keepers in and out - that’s a deceptive looping ball coming in too high to jump for and being on the edge of the 6 yard box its flight is more a keepers ball - McCarthy, as has become his way, hesitates to come,  the newer version of Fraser having seemingly had the screws removed from his boots on the goal line is going to come and likely punch it. 
Salisu looks wrong footed by the looping flight that McCarthy should come for and it’s in the zone where if he moves any closer to goal he is likely to impede the keeper, and be wiped out by the tree that is Forster if he is there.

The Premier league is tough enough for defenders to keep out Apex Predator goal scorers - without having to also consider the nuances of which keeper is between the sticks this week. We are the only team dicking about rotating the key position of a defence - make a choice stick with him and take one less thought out of the defenders heads. To me, give Forster a proper run. If you have stood on the pitch at St Mary’s and looked at the goal from the edge of the box, it is remarkably much smaller than it looks from the stands and on TV. Stick a unit like Fraser in there, also having the wingspan of an Albatross, and the target is even smaller, meaning whoever is going to take a pot shot is having to consider the shot more, it forces that brief additional moment of thought and allows the defence to close him down even more.

You can’t have settled defence when you are playing lucky dip with the keepers.

No its 100% on Salisu. Neither keeper is going to get near that before richarlison even i believed yout odd Fraser would have tried to come hypothesis

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Teddeer said:

Shame he fails to admit his part in two of the goals. Head in the sand Jack.

“could only watch on as”
 

Says it all.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Baird of the land said:

I don't see how you really place goal blame on jack for the skewed clearance. You might as well blame livramento then for his failed clearance that led to jack having to try to deal with it.

You'd hope coaches would be drilling it into him though about the way that he too often ball watches and let's his man drift off him. Happened in the first half and fortuntely calvert lewin put it over the bar but there was no let off for that third goal.

You have to expect that a Premier League footballer could kick a ball cleanly.

[Whitey Grandad]

13 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

No its 100% on Salisu. Neither keeper is going to get near that before richarlison even i believed yout odd Fraser would have tried to come hypothesis

The ball is not in that picture. It lands two feet from where McCarthy is standing. It was a big cock up but in any other team it’s the goalkeeper’s ball every time.

Edited 15 August, 2021 by Whitey Grandad

[The Cat]

12 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The ball is not in that picture. It lands two feet from where McCarthy is standing. It was a big cock up but in any other team it’s the goalkeeper’s ball every time.

The ball is above the H on the pitch side advertising hoarding.

Salisu could have got something on it or reacted to put Richarlison under some pressure, equally McCarthy could have come and claimed it. Neither of them come out of that situation looking particularly good.

[Baird of the land]

16 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The ball is not in that picture. It lands two feet from where McCarthy is standing. It was a big cock up but in any other team it’s the goalkeeper’s ball every time.

Think you need glasses. The ball is in the picture. It's the white thing between Richarlison and Slaisu.

[Forester]

No idea is McCarthy called or failed to call for the first one.  But what is clear is that unless you hear a very loud “keepers ball” scream you absolutely do not stop and assume.  It looks to me like that is exactly what Salisu did which is criminally poor defending.

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, Baird of the land said:

No its 100% on Salisu. Neither keeper is going to get near that before richarlison even i believed yout odd Fraser would have tried to come hypothesis

Looks even worse for McCarthy in this photo because the ball is fairly high which suggests he had enough time to take a step or two and hurl himself, arms spread, to at least make Richarlson's job more difficult.  He looked caught in two minds.

[obelisk]

The call from McCarthy should have been either "away" or "'keeper". Did he make any utterance at all?

He started to come for it and then went back. The more I look at it the more I see it as the 'keeper's ball. Mind you, he'd have to be brave.

[Teddeer]

3 minutes ago, obelisk said:

The call from McCarthy should have been either "away" or "'keeper". Did he make any utterance at all?

He started to come for it and then went back. The more I look at it the more I see it as the 'keeper's ball. Mind you, he'd have to be brave.

You'd like to assume that if Salisu heard the call 'AWAY!' he would have reacted differently.

[hasper57saint]

Its very easy to name  scapegoats after losing in such a feeble way. However,look for responsibility. Ralph picks the team. We are seeing a repeat of last season. Two of our best players on the bench not used against a mediocre Everton side. They are not very good and Ralph should have known this. The positives are completely  nullified by the negatives. I won't give up my support of my Club but I am quickly losing my confidence in our Manager.  Manure next week is the real challenge. 

[Chez]

5 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

For that first goal surely Forster steps forward and claims the balll, 

not a chance in hell. Has there been a keeper more tied to his line than Forster?

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Teddeer said:

Looks even worse for McCarthy in this photo because the ball is fairly high which suggests he had enough time to take a step or two and hurl himself, arms spread, to at least make Richarlson's job more difficult.  He looked caught in two minds.

McCarthy starts to come but Salisu moves back towards him and thus he stops thinking that Salisu will continue to retreat and jump for the header. For me its on Salisu.