Everton 3-1 Saints - Match Thread

[redkeith]

It seems like a few people are forgetting the good spell in the 2nd half,  before decourts wonder strike.if Moussa lifts his head up one of the 4 times he skinned their right side or Adams took a shot on when we had them all over the place we would have got a 2nd goal.

Positives, mouse skinning people, front 2 look a handful.

Negatives, Walcott poor, Moussa not finding a pass, the funking about for their first goal.

[OttawaSaint]

Sorry to say but Ralph has to go. With a club like us, the players we have, his stubborn inflexible approach doesn’t work.

Players know that if they get in Ralph’s good books they’ll get picked. There’s no competition for places and it shows.

Then there’s the not addressing frequent problems, the keepers, the lapses, the throw ins, the corners.

He’s been worked out by other managers. Imagine being in the dressing room of the oppo. You’ve just been outrun and are down 1-0, all the manager needs to say is, they’ll tire, now’s the time to up the effort, they’ll crumble and won’t react until it’s too late, keep the faith and just up the intensity a bit.

[striker]

This is going to be a struggle to stay up. Need CB help immediately. I thought Armstrong and Che looked ok up front.

[woodsaint1]

Really weak mentality. We just dont know how to manage leads through to the final whistle.

Ralph too slow with making subs again. Felt for him last year with some of the dross/kids on the bench at times. But today we had a good bench who could inject some energy when needed. Too late.

Said it many times before, Stephens is only good enough to be our 4th choice CB. The fact hes starting just shows how bad we are in that position. A good CB is needed asap. 

Positives are that the new signings looked good and Armstrong is off the mark already. Another poster hit the nail on the head about how we're still plagued by the staleness of players like McCarthy and Stephens.

We never do well at Goodison but feel like thats a point (at least) pissed away. Ah well onwards and hopefully upwards

[bpsaint]

Same shit different season, combine our opening day record and our record at Goodison and it was never going to be a good day was it. Go 1 up, play well, concede against the run of play and collapse like a fucking Jenga tower. We’re just so mentally fucking weak. We’re like someone being tortured for information that gives up just having their feet tickled. Honestly it’s been an issue now for years, we’ve got as much backbone as a fucking worm.

[davefizzy14]

Why was Fraser not in goal today. Totally baffling. Just annoying that we give away a lead again! 

[Mr X]

Our record of points lost from winning positions must be dam near the worst in the league over the last couple of seasons! 

[DT]

Still, it will be useful to get our traditional 9-0 out of the way early next week

[DT]

Just now, davefizzy14 said:

Why was Fraser not in goal today. Totally baffling. Just annoying that we give away a lead again! 

because Ralph is blind and clueless

[Saint Pete]

3 minutes ago, madge said:

There has to be reason for our woeful 2nd half performances. It’s one of the following, absolutely no mental strength within senior players, the inability of our coaches to predict the changes opposing teams make at half time, lack of quality or a manager who’s tactically inept.

New players, same mentality and mentality is driven from the coaching set up. Personally I’d have ditched Ralph’s coaching team and provided him with someone who’s been around the top divisions.

The manager has to take responsibility for not doing more to address it..., But for me it's just as much a personnel and recruitment issue as it is blindingly obvious that we need an experienced organiser at the back and has been for a couple of seasons. And yet we are still obsessed with bringing in more players who are the "right age" or will be "the future of the club". What about what we need for the present so we don't keep losing winnable games like this?

[hypochondriac]

I'm so sick and tired of throwing away leads. It's tiresome. 

[DT]

1 minute ago, Saint Pete said:

The manager has to take responsibility for not doing more to address it..., But for me it's just as much a personnel and recruitment issue as it is blindingly obvious that we need an experienced organiser at the back and has been for a couple of seasons. And yet we are still obsessed with bringing in more players who are the "right age" or will be "the future of the club". What about what we need for the present so we don't keep losing winnable games like this?

Run by accountants not football people, quite clearly

[hackedoff]

No lessons are EVER going to be learnt by this lot.

[Saint_clark]

Just realised that's another 3 points dropped from winning positions. 

[Red]

 

20 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

Useless cunt of a manager 

I have to say I am not normally so reactionary but on this occasion  I cannot disagree with your view

[Convict Colony]

not read any of the above to not cloud my judgement.

- livramento was quality in 1st half seemed to tire and be more conservative in the 2nd - he seems a baller and i like him a lot already.

- Thought perraud and djnepo linked up well in the final 3rd, something to build with and neither disgraced themselves.

- For the first 2 goals both CBs and goalkeeper should of done better - stephens lost the 1st and i think Salisu thought Mccarthey was coming for the 2nd and left it since it was in the 6yd box-   mccarthey was coming and then stopped about 3yds away from the ball - he does not command his area.  In fact when i watch him i think he avoids going for balls when  he thinks there could be heavy contact with a player - he's pulled out more than a monk in a nunery.

Dacoure couldnt of hit that goal 9 times out of 10, JWP got sold and dummy and he hit a lucky strike - such is life.

Walcott was a passenger all game

Armstrong was great - quick as feck, pressured keane all game and awesome goal.

Adams - great assist but then quiet for the rest of the game.

JWP/Romeu - weirdly i dont know about them - i dont think they were great, JWP dead balls were a bit arse, Romeu ok lets hope its just being rusty.

Think we need a stronger/faster CB to partner Salisu, also the team need to assess how everton farmed the ball out wide to cross for their 2 goals, think they were both from midfield lapses.

 

Not sure what changes v Man U - but we go again

 

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm so sick and tired of throwing away leads. It's tiresome. 

Apparently we give out large contracts to the likes of Long and Walcott because they’re great characters to have in the dressing room. Thank goodness for that; I’d hate to see what this lot would be like if they were lacking organisation, camaraderie, leadership, resilience and character.

[Ed Rooney]

12 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Very positive first half.

Mccarthy (Thought he was ok, came and claimed very well). Beaten by a top corner shot and sitters.)

Livramento clearly has something about him. Split between Ralph being blind or KWP being dead as to why we didn't make a change on that side when Gray started to get the better of him.

Stephens/Salisu. Some good moments(especially salisu covering) but managed to let both their strikers have sitters to score. We are so lacking any threat from set pieces too.

Perraud (some bright moments going forward, less certain defensively)

Romeu (quiet today)

JWP (Saved our bacon quite a few times)

Walcott (had a brief spell of about 5 minutes in 2nd half where he looked threatening

Djenepo (very threatening, just frustrating he wants too many touches)

Armstrong (lovely signing)

Adams (very good again)

Subs (unrated because for some reason some useless goon waited until we were behind to make them)

 

Romeu quiet ??? Spent 3/4 of the game covering ward prowse treading water. Yes great block ward prowse but other than that the game passed him by and it was lucky we had Romeu. 

[Convict Colony]

30 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

I hope the club know what they're doing because for me, we are sleepwalking towards relegation.

Why we haven't got a replacement for JV despite knowing he was going for ages is beyond me.

The goalkeeper situation is a joke, they're both fucking awful.

The stubborn git in charge won't change from his system which teams found out how to beat an absolute age ago.

He refuses to change the game through subs until it is way too late...

At least we have United next week.

Shite.

Game 1 - Aug 14th

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Oh I do agree with most of this, his subs, or lack of them, always cost us. 

I was willing to cut him a little slack Jan onwards as our beach was mostly bare bones, but I am concerned but happy to see it play out for a handful of games or so. If we get dicked next week, which is likely, I wonder if he will throw in the towel. 
 

I also think he may not last the season, but we need a little time to see how we play when new players are bedded in over a few games, but he needs to stop this for and quickly. 

I kinda entered the season with a bit of optimism, but it's so frustrating to see the same mistakes keep on happening. I don't understand why Ralph is so slow to react to changes and refuses to make subs. I agree that he may not last the season, but with us struggling so badly financially, I wonder if it will be too late before we relieve him of his duties. 

[badgerx16]

( By my reckoning - including today, looking at second half performances ).....

Since we beat Sheff Utd 3-0 on 13th December we have played 27 league games. In those games we have "won" the second half 5 times, and "lost" it 15 times. Of 8 games we had been leading at half time we went on to win 3, draw 2, and lose 3. Of 7 games we were drawing at half time we went on win 2, draw 3, and lose 3. We lost all 11 of the games where we were behind at half time.

Edited 14 August, 2021 by badgerx16

[JRM]

10 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Same shit different season, combine our opening day record and our record at Goodison and it was never going to be a good day was it. Go 1 up, play well, concede against the run of play and collapse like a fucking Jenga tower. We’re just so mentally fucking weak. We’re like someone being tortured for information that gives up just having their feet tickled. Honestly it’s been an issue now for years, we’ve got as much backbone as a fucking worm.

Agree, so depressingly predictable, betting account showing a healthy balance but I'd have much rather have lost the money and seen us get something. Just happens every fucking year up there. 

 

[Shroppie]

Clear evidence that we need an experienced CB: someone who can organise holding on to a lead and be a leader.

[Didcot Saint]

13 minutes ago, redkeith said:

It seems like a few people are forgetting the good spell in the 2nd half,  before decourts wonder strike.if Moussa lifts his head up one of the 4 times he skinned their right side or Adams took a shot on when we had them all over the place we would have got a 2nd goal.

Positives, mouse skinning people, front 2 look a handful.

Negatives, Walcott poor, Moussa not finding a pass, the funking about for their first goal.

Moussa may look lively but it’s like a chicken running round with it’s head cut off, creates absolutely nothing

[OttawaSaint]

6 minutes ago, hackedoff said:

No lessons are EVER going to be learnt by this lot.

Nope. It’s like we just go, “ohh well, not sure what happened, see you next week, Team is Alex...”.

[Billy the Kidd]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I kinda entered the season with a bit of optimism, but it's so frustrating to see the same mistakes keep on happening. I don't understand why Ralph is so slow to react to changes and refuses to make subs. I agree that he may not last the season, but with us struggling so badly financially, I wonder if it will be too late before we relieve him of his duties. 

I don’t think we will take ages to move him on if needs be, and like you I’m full of optimism for thy is year, still am a little. 
 

Couple more signing and a training video on the use of subs, and this time next year Rodney we’ll be champions of the Premier League 😂

[Ed Rooney]

One up at half time with Theo and Djenepo being shite. 
 

Winning or not l, the manager has to change it and bring off players who are not performing, it was appalling from the manager. 
 

Not pro active at all and you can’t be like that in Prem league  

 

awful 

[Shroppie]

Is Livramento injured?

[JRM]

1 minute ago, Shroppie said:

Clear evidence that we need an experienced CB: someone who can organise holding on to a lead and be a leader.

Agree would make a massive difference for us, otherwise we seem destined to make the same mistakes over and over again.

[East Kent Saint]

JWP must think he’s going . Re today , looked dodgy as soon as we saw the team sheet .

[OttawaSaint]

Cooling off a bit.

I thought Adams was immense. Feel bad for him, he didn’t deserve that result.

[JRM]

2 minutes ago, Didcot Saint said:

Moussa may look lively but it’s like a chicken running round with it’s head cut off, creates absolutely nothing

A mate of mine once said Djenepo always looks like he doesn't know which goal we're attacking, every time I see him play I can't disagree. 

[Saint Charminster]

8 hours ago, mcbendy said:

Don't you think they'll notice if we field 12? (Stu + Armstrong) 

Lots of huff and puff, no real quality. Our goal was a good finish on a Everton error, apart from that we never looked liked scoring or creating anything.

The usual capitulation and defensive issues just confirms a long hard season a head and Nothing has  changed from last season apart from few changes In personnel.

[sydney_saint]

2 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

Clear evidence that we need an experienced CB: someone who can organise holding on to a lead and be a leader.

Not only clear evidence today. But clear evidence to everyone that it would be needed without vestegaard (who wasn't great himself). Extremely frustrating as we've had months to work on this, yet you would think all of our players were at the euros and the Olympics. Under prepared, unfit, and poor. I imagine we will bring in a defensive version of Carrillo and that will be that for us

[Ed Rooney]

4 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

JWP must think he’s going . Re today , looked dodgy as soon as we saw the team sheet .

Good 

[East Kent Saint]

If you remember we have to wait for 10 games before we can “slit our throats “

 

[badgerx16]

Just now, East Kent Saint said:

If you remember we have to wait for 10 games before we can “slit our throats “

 

How long before we can wet the bed ?

[Miltonaggro]

5 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Sorry to say but Ralph has to go. With a club like us, the players we have, his stubborn inflexible approach doesn’t work.

Players know that if they get in Ralph’s good books they’ll get picked. There’s no competition for places and it shows.

Then there’s the not addressing frequent problems, the keepers, the lapses, the throw ins, the corners.

He’s been worked out by other managers. Imagine being in the dressing room of the oppo. You’ve just been outrun and are down 1-0, all the manager needs to say is, they’ll tire, now’s the time to up the effort, they’ll crumble and won’t react until it’s too late, keep the faith and just up the intensity a bit.

Agree with this and it looked like the pep talk included pressurising Djenepo and rattling Salisu and McCarthy, going for the obvious weak links as you'd expect.  If Ralph wants to continue his 'top to bottom revolution' at Saints he needs to get a seasoned competent keeper and combative leader centre half in as soon as possible - Romero and Tarkowski perhaps but who knows, lots of good suggestions on the transfers thread.  Club has to bite the bullet with the keeper though as a stopgap with the two remaining stooges will clearly cost us dearly, and there are people earning a lot of money at the club who should be all over it.  The substitutions are another matter and today was especially baffling as the bench looked decent. We were good first half but Theo and Djeneop were obviously poor and off pace - Armstrong and Tella at half time or 60 mins looked a complete no brainer.  For me the strangest thing is the manager's apparent inability to learn, is he simply stubborn or stupidly optimistic, like so many on here I'd love him to be successful but fans need some tangible evolution now.   

[OttawaSaint]

Team is really missing a pro that leads by example, that is vocal, keeps the team ticking over and intensity high. 

A simple shout from Salisu or McCarthy and we stay 1-0 up, crowd on Everton’s backs. 

Even before that it was clear we were dozing off. Why wasn’t anyone voicing to the others to keep the concentration?

[Convict Colony]

34 minutes ago, striker said:

Ings just scored on a penalty

[badgerx16]

Just now, OttawaSaint said:

Team is really missing a pro that leads by example, that is vocal, keeps the team ticking over and intensity high. 

A simple shout from Salisu or McCarthy and we stay 1-0 up, crowd on Everton’s backs. 

Even before that it was clear we were dozing off. Why wasn’t anyone voicing to the others to keep the concentration?

2 minutes into the second half Ralph's half time words should still have been ringing in their ears.

[Teddeer]

7 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

One up at half time with Theo and Djenepo being shite. 
 

Winning or not l, the manager has to change it and bring off players who are not performing, it was appalling from the manager. 
 

Not pro active at all and you can’t be like that in Prem league  

 

awful 

Exactly right. The manager has to be ruthless enough to tell a player at half time who has not performed that he's being hooked. Theo offered nothing during that opening 45 minutes - this should have been dealt with by the coaching staff but not sure they have that bit of ruthlessness about them. They'd rather gloss over it and hope things improve. You can't afford to be so soft at this level.

[Disco Stu]

37 minutes ago, striker said:

Ings just scored on a penalty

Looking on the villa forum, it seems he had a poor game.

[revolution saint]

Yeah, I've never really knocked Ralph before but he really needs to take the majority of the blame on this one.  We were crying out for more bodies in midfield to shore us up.  No idea why Stuart Armstrong was on the bench but if he was fit enough to be on the bench then he should have been on the pitch at least as a sub.  If it was tactical then that's a big mistake.  

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

Team is really missing a pro that leads by example, that is vocal, keeps the team ticking over and intensity high. 

 

I’ve been saying this for months, but evidently I’m a dinosaur stuck in the 70’s.
 

Look at them today, their keeper dishes it out regularly. Coleman puts his foot in and is vocal, Doucouré digs in and sets an example. 

[OttawaSaint]

Another aspect is how the players just shrug their shoulders and go “oh well” when we concede. We are so meek and fragile. 

[Convict Colony]

Djenepo rated 2nd best player today for us according to whoscored and led the team with 5 successful tackles.

 

[stknowle]

10 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I kinda entered the season with a bit of optimism, but it's so frustrating to see the same mistakes keep on happening. I don't understand why Ralph is so slow to react to changes and refuses to make subs. I agree that he may not last the season, but with us struggling so badly financially, I wonder if it will be too late before we relieve him of his duties. 

It appears he is just incapable of reading a game and changing it up when necessary. One move from the oppo's manager and he is done. You want to believe that it can't be the case and he'll learn but over and over again we see the same fucking thing so the conclusion has to be that it is the case. How about he changes formation/personnel/tactics at half time to keep his opponent on their toes? Why is it always us reacting and when we do too fucking late?

[Baird of the land]

"Then you can see the atmosphere coming and you feel the pressure on you. We calmed it down a little bit but then we conceded a beautiful second goal."

 

So you can see the atmosphere coming and you do nothing.....

[CanadaSaint]

So, away against a Top 8 team that has spent a ton of money, we had a pretty decent first half with both Livramento and A. Armstrong looking excellent. JWP filled in to allow Livramento to push forward, and the front two were causing the CDs a lot of problems.

I suspect Ralph’s half time instruction was to keep things tight, but it all went down the shitter in the first 90 seconds of the second half. The game-changer was on McCarthy because I should have heard one of two words all the way over here in Canada - “AWAY!!!!” or “KEEPER!!!!”. I’m pretty sure that Salisu – twelve feet away - heard neither, which is typical of McCarthy. Other than that I thought he played well – especially on crosses. Anyone who blames him for the next two goals is just trying to support their viewpoint that Forster should start. That may be so, but make the case without blaming McCarthy for goals that aren’t his fault.

After that, JWP stopped filling in for Livramento so that he could push forward, and that ended the threat on that side because Theo wasn’t doing anything. On the other side Djenepo was his usual uncontrolled, hurky-jurky mess, and Perraud couldn’t push forward because Djenepo is such unreliable cover.

I don’t think we’re ever the same side when S. Armstrong is not in it. Ralph has to figure out how to build on today’s positives with him in the team, but the two candidates to make way have to be Djenepo and Theo.

All in all there were more negatives than positives, but there WERE positives. This is not about whether we can win away at a Top 8 side, but whether we have enough to avoid relegation – or possibly even make it into the middle third.