Taking the knee

[kyle04]

  On 17/10/2021 at 16:04, whelk said:

I can’t be racist I once lent a black kid my pencil sharpener when I was 9 years old.

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Did you get it back?

[hypochondriac]

  On 17/10/2021 at 16:04, whelk said:

I can’t be racist I once lent a black kid my pencil sharpener when I was 9 years old.

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I know you're joking but it is a good point. You're claiming to use your own judgement in order to know that people are racist for opposing the taking of the knee yet you would prefer it to stop as well. Could I not use my own judgement about you and call you racist using the same logic that you are using? 

[whelk]

  On 17/10/2021 at 17:40, hypochondriac said:

I know you're joking but it is a good point. You're claiming to use your own judgement in order to know that people are racist for opposing the taking of the knee yet you would prefer it to stop as well. Could I not use my own judgement about you and call you racist using the same logic that you are using? 

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I have always said many grey areas. People aren’t either completely 0% racist or 100% racist. Clearly some views can be unequivocally seen as racist but we all have little prejudices based on number of things. Half the problem now is that people want to seize on everything as if the must be cleansed to be zero %.

Having said that I don’t consider myself racist but your point stands some would probably find something.

I actually hate it when people proclaim they are a good person. We are all flawed.

[Turkish]

England now ordered to play the next home game behind closed doors. How the fuck does this work? The away fans kick off and England pay the penalty for it? UEFA is either corrupt or run by morons. 

[Matthew Le God]

  On 18/10/2021 at 15:00, Turkish said:

England now ordered to play the next home game behind closed doors. How the fuck does this work? The away fans kick off and England pay the penalty for it? UEFA is either corrupt or run by morons. 

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If you read the article more carefully you will see that the punishment is for English fans at the EURO 2020 final vs Italy. You are too quick to call others 'morons'! 🙄

 

[Turkish]

  On 18/10/2021 at 15:05, Matthew Le God said:

If you read the article more carefully you will see that the punishment is for English fans at the EURO 2020 final vs Italy. You are too quick to call others 'morons'! 🙄

 

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Fair enough, although doesn’t change the fact uefa is run by morons

[Matthew Le God]

  On 18/10/2021 at 15:10, Turkish said:

Fair enough, although doesn’t change the fact uefa is run by morons

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True! 😁

[whelk]

  On 18/10/2021 at 15:10, Turkish said:

Fair enough, although doesn’t change the fact uefa is run by morons

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By all accounts was a farcical and scary day. Take the punishment. 

[CB Fry]

Just covered it on BBC 6 o'clock news,  speaking to an England fan called Graham Hiley and son who were at the game - looked like former Echo Saints correspondent Graham Hiley.

Edited 18 October, 2021 by CB Fry

[Turkish]

  On 18/10/2021 at 17:15, CB Fry said:

Just covered it on BBC 6 o'clock news,  speaking to an England fan called Graham Hiley and son - looked like former Echo Saints correspondent Graham Hiley.

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Graham Hiley and Son sounds like a local hardware shop that went out of business in the mid 90s

[whelk]

  On 18/10/2021 at 17:15, CB Fry said:

Just covered it on BBC 6 o'clock news,  speaking to an England fan called Graham Hiley and son who were at the game - looked like former Echo Saints correspondent Graham Hiley.

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Yeah definitely same one. He is on Twitter and lectures at Solent uni

[Turkish]

  On 18/10/2021 at 17:50, whelk said:

Yeah definitely same one. He is on Twitter and lectures at Solent uni

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Top bloke is Graham Hiley. Used to chat to him a lot at saints bashes when he worked there

[whelk]

So will it be assumed De Kock is a racist? Didn’t play today as was not willing to take the knee.

[Turkish]

  On 26/10/2021 at 11:51, whelk said:

So will it be assumed De Kock is a racist? Didn’t play today as was not willing to take the knee.

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And now they are considering disciplinary action as he didn’t follow instructions. How can this be when it’s all the players choice?

[hypochondriac]

  On 26/10/2021 at 14:35, Turkish said:

And now they are considering disciplinary action as he didn’t follow instructions. How can this be when it’s all the players choice?

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How interesting. I thought we were told that there would be no punishment for those sports people who didn't take the knee? Curious. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 06/08/2021 at 21:19, Turkish said:

He’s does the same with me. And yes he’s droning on about the far right people on this forum and how people are standing up to them. Also having s go at white people thinking they know more about racism than BAME which is strange as its something he bangs in about all the time, he knows about racism as he lives in a small village with a 98.5% white population. Quite tragic he’s pretending to have us on ignore though. 

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Absolutely brilliant reading back through this thread. Soggy pretending to have me on ignore back in August but now you can see he was reacting to almost every one of my earlier posts and the replies to my posts. Superb. 

[whelk]

  On 26/10/2021 at 15:26, hypochondriac said:

How interesting. I thought we were told that there would be no punishment for those sports people who didn't take the knee? Curious. 

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Yes quite mental to mandate it. Becomes absolutely ridiculous gesture if that is the case

[hypochondriac]

  On 09/08/2021 at 14:59, aintforever said:

I expect they didn’t give a shite either way and just went with what the majority of their team decided. Fact is many players don’t take the knee and no one cares.

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So now a cricketer has decided not to take the knee and it seems that some people do care. Is this a good thing so you reckon? 

[hypochondriac]

  On 26/10/2021 at 15:40, whelk said:

Yes quite mental to mandate it. Becomes absolutely ridiculous gesture if that is the case

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Interesting how quickly it morphed from being a harmless voluntary gesture to people now insinuating that de kock is uneducated or even that he's a racist for not wanting to do it. It's almost like it doesn't have unanimous approval but that people were going ahead with it in order to avoid getting grief... 

 

[Turkish]

  On 26/10/2021 at 15:49, hypochondriac said:

Interesting how quickly it morphed from being a harmless voluntary gesture to people now insinuating that de kock is uneducated or even that he's a racist for not wanting to do it. It's almost like it doesn't have unanimous approval but that people were going ahead with it in order to avoid getting grief... 

 

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Nothing different to what those on here were saying about anyone who didn’t agree with it though 

[hypochondriac]

  On 26/10/2021 at 15:51, Turkish said:

Nothing different to what those on here were saying about anyone who didn’t agree with it though 

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Well we had aintforever telling us that no one cares if footballers didn't do it. It seems that some people care if some players don't do it. Had de kock been black I wonder what the South African cricket authorities would have said. 

[Turkish]

  On 26/10/2021 at 15:40, hypochondriac said:

Absolutely brilliant reading back through this thread. Soggy pretending to have me on ignore back in August but now you can see he was reacting to almost every one of my earlier posts and the replies to my posts. Superb. 

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Like either of us were ever on ignore. Absolutely outed as a liar. Much like the more you dig into his transgender friend that lovely little tale doesn’t quite ring true.

Edited 26 October, 2021 by Turkish

[Baird of the land]

"After considering all relevant issues, including the freedom of choice of players, the board had made it clear it was imperative for the team to be seen taking a stand against racism, especially given SA's history."

 

The South Africa board clearly didn't consider freedom of choice, otherwise they would have considered alternative ways of taking a stand.

Edited 26 October, 2021 by Baird of the land

[hypochondriac]

  On 26/10/2021 at 16:12, Turkish said:

Like either of us were ever on ignore. Absolutely outed as a liar. Much like the more you dig into his transgender friend that lovely little tale doesn’t quite ring true.

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Sounds like she sat next to soggy at AA or something like that. 

Edited 26 October, 2021 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

  On 26/10/2021 at 16:35, Baird of the land said:

"After considering all relevant issues, including the freedom of choice of players, the board had made it clear it was imperative for the team to be seen taking a stand against racism, especially given SA's history."

 

The South Africa board clearly didn't consider freedom of choice, otherwise they would have considered alternative ways of taking a stand.

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Taking a stand by kneeling. 

[aintforever]

  On 26/10/2021 at 15:45, hypochondriac said:

So now a cricketer has decided not to take the knee and it seems that some people do care. Is this a good thing so you reckon? 

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I don’t think it should be mandatory, I guess given South Africa’s history you can see why their governing body would want to show a united front though. Maybe they know more about Kock’s reasons for opposing it, or maybe they are part of the Marxist takeover who knows?

[Turkish]

  On 26/10/2021 at 17:05, hypochondriac said:

Sounds like she sat next to soggy at AA or something like that. 

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“He” cough 

[hypochondriac]

  On 26/10/2021 at 18:09, Turkish said:

“He” cough 

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When they were sat next to soggy they were still a woman weren't they? 

[hypochondriac]

  On 26/10/2021 at 17:30, aintforever said:

I don’t think it should be mandatory, I guess given South Africa’s history you can see why their governing body would want to show a united front though. Maybe they know more about Kock’s reasons for opposing it, or maybe they are part of the Marxist takeover who knows?

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So you don't think it's a good thing that they are insisting on it then? So it seems that some people do care if players choose not to do it then. 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 26/10/2021 at 18:32, hypochondriac said:

When they were sat next to soggy they were still a woman weren't they? 

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Are you suggesting it could be soggy's fault 😲

[Turkish]

  On 26/10/2021 at 18:32, hypochondriac said:

When they were sat next to soggy they were still a woman weren't they? 

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Hard to say, mentally already a man but biologically in the wrong body, so were they always a straight man as opposed to a lesbian in a mans body or did they decide after the priory they were a man? Either way soggy still refers to him as her so not really made his own mind up yet 

[hypochondriac]

  On 26/10/2021 at 19:12, Turkish said:

Hard to say, mentally already a man but biologically in the wrong body, so were they always a straight man as opposed to a lesbian in a mans body or did they decide after the priory they were a man? Either way soggy still refers to him as her so not really made his own mind up yet 

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Actually he referred to him as her and then when we pointed it out he obviously saw our posts (despite being on ignore) and reverted to him/her which somehow seems worse. 

[Turkish]

  On 26/10/2021 at 19:36, hypochondriac said:

Actually he referred to him as her and then when we pointed it out he obviously saw our posts (despite being on ignore) and reverted to him/her which somehow seems worse. 

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Who knows mate, personally I think the story is either total bullshit or at best massively embellished. It’s gone from befriending someone going through some thing awful and them making contact later on to tell them they’d transitioned. Latter versions appear to be they were in the same therapy sessions a few but the he/she wouldn’t open up to anyone least of all soggy then years later being surprised to find out they’d transitioned. Some mate that is. 

 

Edited 27 October, 2021 by Turkish

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

Difficult one to judge re De Kock, because the news seems to be reporting it in a number of different ways. Some suggest he was dropped for refusing to take the knee, others suggest he chose not to play. Before their match against Australia only half the team took the knee, the rest stood with a raised fist or hands behind their back and those players haven't been dropped or walked. 

South Africa does obviously have a history of racial issues and tensions that still do impact it as a nation, so it is understandable that that they would want their players to make a united gesture against racism, but it shouldn't be forced upon individuals.

As always I think the issue comes down to why he didn't want to make the gesture, which at the moment he is citing as personal to him. 

Not a good look for Cricket SA either way

[hypochondriac]

  On 27/10/2021 at 08:27, Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan said:

Difficult one to judge re De Kock, because the news seems to be reporting it in a number of different ways. Some suggest he was dropped for refusing to take the knee, others suggest he chose not to play. Before their match against Australia only half the team took the knee, the rest stood with a raised fist or hands behind their back and those players haven't been dropped or walked. 

South Africa does obviously have a history of racial issues and tensions that still do impact it as a nation, so it is understandable that that they would want their players to make a united gesture against racism, but it shouldn't be forced upon individuals.

As always I think the issue comes down to why he didn't want to make the gesture, which at the moment he is citing as personal to him. 

Not a good look for Cricket SA either way

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Why should he be forced to explain why he doesn't want to make the gesture? If - as many were suggesting - it was an entirely voluntary thing then he should be under no obligation to explain anything. The issue is not what happened during the first game but that following that game, cricket South Africa basically demanded that everyone submit and take the knee. 

[rallyboy]

He's now realised that his very public stand did nothing for team unity or his own reputation and has today performed a dramatic U-turn of Borisesque proportions.

Personally I'd file it under misunderstanding, and there's nothing to see here.

 

[hypochondriac]

Alternatively, he's been put under real pressure for not taking a knee that lots of people on here were told was a voluntary gesture and now he has u turned lest his international career be over. 

[whelk]

They should make him take the knee twice to make sure he catches up

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

  On 27/10/2021 at 09:13, hypochondriac said:

Why should he be forced to explain why he doesn't want to make the gesture? If - as many were suggesting - it was an entirely voluntary thing then he should be under no obligation to explain anything. The issue is not what happened during the first game but that following that game, cricket South Africa basically demanded that everyone submit and take the knee. 

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I didn't say he should be forced to explain, I just think that it would help. If he is not wanting to take part because he is a racist and hates other ethnicities then that is clearly an issue that needs addressing. If he is doing it because he wishes to commit to the cause of anti-racism with a separate gesture or by supporting other foundations or charities then that is much easier to take.

Why does it matter so much to you that he is being told to make an anti-racist gesture for 3 seconds before a match of cricket? it is hardly an act of horrific submission by the players to their totalitarian overlords, and more a reasonable action to be taken by players in the public eye when the same gesture is being performed by other teams and in other sports.

[Fan The Flames]

  On 28/10/2021 at 10:34, hypochondriac said:

Alternatively, he's been put under real pressure for not taking a knee that lots of people on here were told was a voluntary gesture and now he has u turned lest his international career be over. 

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So one organisation at one game requested their team to take the knee and you are using that to tarnish the thousands of issue free voluntary kneelers.

Neither side has issued a statement yet, so know one knows what went on. But from a country with appaling race relations and an organisation that also has a poor record, suggests there is more to this than wokism gone mad.

[Lighthouse]

  On 28/10/2021 at 10:17, rallyboy said:

He's now realised that his very public stand

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He hasn’t made any kind of public stand, quite the opposite. All this is based around him remaining neutral when others were making a gesture.

[hypochondriac]

  On 28/10/2021 at 12:08, Fan The Flames said:

So one organisation at one game requested their team to take the knee and you are using that to tarnish the thousands of issue free voluntary kneelers.

Neither side has issued a statement yet, so know one knows what went on. But from a country with appaling race relations and an organisation that also has a poor record, suggests there is more to this than wokism gone mad.

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Where have I tarnished anyone? We were told by the experts on here that taking the knee was a voluntary gesture, that no one was compelled to do so and that nobody cared if someone didn't do it. Clearly that's nonsense. 

[Fan The Flames]

  On 28/10/2021 at 12:26, hypochondriac said:

Where have I tarnished anyone? We were told by the experts on here that taking the knee was a voluntary gesture, that no one was compelled to do so and that nobody cared if someone didn't do it. Clearly that's nonsense. 

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You are trying to have a 'see I told you moment'. I suspect that when people on here, who you mockingly call experts, were talking about the knee in football and in this country. Which, has in the main, been very positive, no one has been forced to take the knee and no one has been knocked for not doing it. 

An incident has popped up with SA cricket, with an immense back story and you jump on it as a gotcha moment. Well done you.

[hypochondriac]

  On 28/10/2021 at 12:37, Fan The Flames said:

You are trying to have a 'see I told you moment'. I suspect that when people on here, who you mockingly call experts, were talking about the knee in football and in this country. Which, has in the main, been very positive, no one has been forced to take the knee and no one has been knocked for not doing it. 

An incident has popped up with SA cricket, with an immense back story and you jump on it as a gotcha moment. Well done you.

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I was told that it was not true when I said that two professional footballers had said to my face that they don't really want to take the knee but that they did it to avoid any dramas. We have now seen what happens when a white sports person publically expresses their opposition to kneeling. It will have been noted by others I'm sure. 

Edited 28 October, 2021 by hypochondriac

[aintforever]

  On 28/10/2021 at 12:26, hypochondriac said:

Where have I tarnished anyone? We were told by the experts on here that taking the knee was a voluntary gesture, that no one was compelled to do so and that nobody cared if someone didn't do it. Clearly that's nonsense. 

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Brilliant! So after a year and a half of players taking the knee you have finally found someone who was forced to take the knee and it’s nothing to do with football but a cricketer from the most racist country on the planet.

[skintsaint]

  On 28/10/2021 at 12:47, aintforever said:

from the most racist country on the planet.

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5th I believe. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 28/10/2021 at 12:47, aintforever said:

Brilliant! So after a year and a half of players taking the knee you have finally found someone who was forced to take the knee and it’s nothing to do with football but a cricketer from the most racist country on the planet.

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What white footballers have publically gone against the consensus of their team and not taken the knee and no one has cared? 

[aintforever]

  On 28/10/2021 at 12:53, hypochondriac said:

What white footballers have publically gone against the consensus of their team and not taken the knee and no one has cared? 

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I watched AFC Bournemouth the other week and not one player took the knee, no one cried.

no one is forced to do anything.

Edited 28 October, 2021 by aintforever

[Fan The Flames]

QPR don't kneel, Alonso doesn't and no one has chased them out of town.

[whelk]

  On 28/10/2021 at 13:15, Fan The Flames said:

QPR don't kneel, Alonso doesn't and no one has chased them out of town.

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But Chelsea haven’t dropped Alonso as as result. De Kock it woudl appear has been told do this or don’t play. Which makes it a farce as any executive at a club could pass something down to do or don’t get picked and we’d be told the players are all behind it which is the point of it surely.