manzo Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said: I’ve always thought these buy back clauses were an insurance policy in case the player develops better than they though he would and it stops a rival buying him off us. Chelsea got burnt with De Bruyne and Salah so maybe want to protect themselves. If they thought he’d be in their first team in 2 or 3 seasons, surely they’d just loan him out as they’ve done with countless others. Not in this case though, surely? He turned down their contract offer, so they sold him before they lost him for a development fee, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 1 hour ago, egg said: I guess it's about incentive to the club getting the player on loan...where's the incentive to play and develop the player? This arrangement gives us that, all while giving him the platform to develop and the carrot of possibly going back to Chelsea if he does well. It's a genuine everyone's a winner situation if he does well. As long as the buy back clause is substantial enough! The nightmare scenario is when it is too low and Chelsea but him back just to immediately sell him in for even more money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 2 hours ago, Appy said: Not sure the worry about Chelsea just yet is warranted. They have two of the best right backs in the league and Chalobah is there now too, they won’t be shelling out on him for a good while yet. It's not just whether he is wanted back in their first team though that will influence it . Chelsea could buy him back at £40m, and sell him to Real Madrid for double that the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 2 hours ago, hypochondriac said: It's interesting isn't it how some payers really divide opinion yet when someone has that stardust it's immediately obvious as soon as they step foot on the pitch. Theo, AOC and Bale all had it too. You don't need any in depth football knowledge to see it. I wont make a judgement until someone tells me what his xg is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 8 minutes ago, Badger said: It's not just whether he is wanted back in their first team though that will influence it . Chelsea could buy him back at £40m, and sell him to Real Madrid for double that the next day. Could that actually happen though? My understanding (which I'm sure MLG will be along shortly to correct) is that the buy back clause can only be activated if the player agrees to it. If Tino knows Chelsea are only buying him back to sell him on for a profit, could he not refuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 13 minutes ago, Badger said: It's not just whether he is wanted back in their first team though that will influence it . Chelsea could buy him back at £40m, and sell him to Real Madrid for double that the next day. Isn't there a FIFA rule which says a player is only allowed one permanent transfer a window? There certainly used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 11 minutes ago, Turkish said: Isn't there a FIFA rule which says a player is only allowed one permanent transfer a window? There certainly used to be. Didnt Afobe get bought a few years ago and then sold the next day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 12 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said: Could that actually happen though? My understanding (which I'm sure MLG will be along shortly to correct) is that the buy back clause can only be activated if the player agrees to it. If Tino knows Chelsea are only buying him back to sell him on for a profit, could he not refuse? I'm sure he'd have to agree to it but seems unlikely he'd opt to stay at Saints to forego a move to Madrid or wherever. 10 minutes ago, Turkish said: Isn't there a FIFA rule which says a player is only allowed one permanent transfer a window? There certainly used to be. Don't know, I thought there had been previous cases of this, although may have confused it with loan options returning somewhere before being sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 6 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said: Didnt Afobe get bought a few years ago and then sold the next day? Football players playing for more than one club in a season - InBrief.co.uk Nor sure how up to date this is. Seems like FIFA rule is can be registered at 3 clubs in a season but only play for 2 unless season overlap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 44 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said: Could that actually happen though? My understanding (which I'm sure MLG will be along shortly to correct) is that the buy back clause can only be activated if the player agrees to it. If Tino knows Chelsea are only buying him back to sell him on for a profit, could he not refuse? He would obviously be bought back by Chelsea to play in their first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st alex Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 I wonder if he were to sign a new contract with us (in a year or two), whether that would invalidate the buy back clause, just as any release clause would be reevaluated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igsey Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 57 minutes ago, st alex said: I wonder if he were to sign a new contract with us (in a year or two), whether that would invalidate the buy back clause, just as any release clause would be reevaluated? Can't imagine that would work or we'd just get him to sign a new contract immediately. Zaha can't sign a new contract that invalidates United's sell-on clause, they will be different agreements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 55 minutes ago, igsey said: Can't imagine that would work or we'd just get him to sign a new contract immediately. Zaha can't sign a new contract that invalidates United's sell-on clause, they will be different agreements. Without seeing the contract we'll never know but the obvious solution would be for these buy back clauses to have an expiration date - which I presume that they do. That protects clubs in Saints' position by preventing clauses being used 10 (or however many) years later after multiple new contracts but also protects the club in Chelsea's position from having teh clause invalidated by a new contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitch Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 6 hours ago, wild-saint said: I thi I think its been reported by numerous people close to Saints as closer to £40million. the rest of your post is opinion based on what you think is going through a kids mind. its just a likely that he will think that he wants 3 years growing as a player as a guaranteed starter before looking for a big move to whoever looks the best path for his future career. That may or may not be Chelsea for £40m. I'd heard £40m reported too, but also £25m, so going with worst-case scenario. And yes, it's a subjective POV (just like the majority of posts on here) but I certainly don't mean it as a slight. I think it's good business, but I also think he'll be gone before his 20th birthday. Going to enjoy watching him play in a Saints shirt until that time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 2 hours ago, st alex said: I wonder if he were to sign a new contract with us (in a year or two), whether that would invalidate the buy back clause, just as any release clause would be reevaluated? They are different contracts; one is between selling club and buying club and the other is between buying club and player. Changing the players contract has zero effect* on the contract between clubs. *the amount of the buyback can be linked to variables such appearances, call ups and possibly wages. To get rid of the buy back cause we would have to pay Chelsea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 42 minutes ago, Clapham Saint said: Without seeing the contract we'll never know but the obvious solution would be for these buy back clauses to have an expiration date - which I presume that they do. That protects clubs in Saints' position by preventing clauses being used 10 (or however many) years later after multiple new contracts but also protects the club in Chelsea's position from having teh clause invalidated by a new contract. There will be an activation window (ie not before x date, and not after y date) and a minimum notice period I'd imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 1 hour ago, kitch said: I'd heard £40m reported too, but also £25m, so going with worst-case scenario. And yes, it's a subjective POV (just like the majority of posts on here) but I certainly don't mean it as a slight. I think it's good business, but I also think he'll be gone before his 20th birthday. Going to enjoy watching him play in a Saints shirt until that time comes. Agree, I think we will have 2 years but that’s pretty much what we would get out of any successful top drawer signing we make I would imagine. Certainly great to have a new superstar in the making to watch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 23 August, 2021 Share Posted 23 August, 2021 4 hours ago, Badger said: I'm sure he'd have to agree to it but seems unlikely he'd opt to stay at Saints to forego a move to Madrid or wherever. Well no, obviously not. But if Real/Barca/Bayern were after him then they would deal directly with his agent rather than going through Chelsea. Chelsea's buy back option is only valid if he agrees terms with them, which he doesn't have to do. The only way the buy back happens is if they want him for their first team and no bigger clubs are bidding for him. And with the resources Chelsea already have in that position, it's unlikely they will be looking to sign a first choice RB before the buy back clause expires. Of course he won't stay at Saints long, so let's just enjoy having him while we can, but I seriously doubt he will actually end up back at Chelsea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 (edited) At 18 years old he has made it into the England under 21 squad... Edited 27 August, 2021 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 that will be him tapped up then by the young Chelsea stars etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 On 22/08/2021 at 20:15, SuperSAINT said: It's the beauty of their literally being a space for them too. It's not like we're saying: "Oh come and join us, Thierry, you'll get games" when we've got 3 senior left-backs tucked away somewhere. There's no left-backs until you get to the U18's. Presumably there are no LBs even in the u18s, considering Small is technically an u17. Wonder why it has all gone so wrong for this position in the Academy, it used to be our strength, Bridge, Bale, Shaw, Targett, McQueen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 No surprise to see him straight into the U21's. Top quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Matty 76 Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 Fucking hell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 1 minute ago, Saint Matty 76 said: Fucking hell. why else do you think we got him so cheap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Matty 76 Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 Just now, AlexLaw76 said: why else do you think we got him so cheap? Everywhere else was reporting £40m so was inclined to think that'd be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SambaMaverick Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 If it's that much they'll be buying him back at the end of this season! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunglasses Ron Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 (edited) The buyback could be £10m and it would still be a good news story for us. We've got a highly capable player that will make us better for at least one season. We can then let him go for a massive profit. I know not everyone likes our way of doing things, but our work this summer is putting us back on the map as one of THE best destinations for emerging talent. Edited 27 August, 2021 by Sunglasses Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said: The buyback could be £10m and it would still be a good news story for us. No it wouldn't. £25mil would be a bitter pill to swallow, let alone 10! I agree with you our way of doing things is brilliant, but this kid's clearly worth more than £25 million already. We got him because he refused to sign a deal with Chelsea and wanted a chance to play. If we've allowed the buy back to be as low as £25 mill then that's a mistake on our part IMO. Edited 27 August, 2021 by niceandfriendly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 33 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said: If it's that much they'll be buying him back at the end of this season! Probably more likely the end of next season, when his actual value would be more like £60m+ and they'll get him on the cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunglasses Ron Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 4 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said: No it wouldn't. £25mil would be a bitter pill to swallow, let alone 10! I hear you. Put it this way though, this is a much better scenario than we've faced in recent years. Look how much we lost on 'The Unsellables'! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyNumber7 Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 When he signed other journos were reporting it was 'closer to £40m than £25m' so depends who you believe. Either way it was still a great deal, having a very good player here for a couple of years or so then make a big profit. Obviously the higher the better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 4 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said: No it wouldn't. £25mil would be a bitter pill to swallow, let alone 10! I agree with you our way of doing things is brilliant, but this kid's clearly worth more than £25 million already. We got him because he refused to sign a deal with Chelsea and wanted a chance to play. If we've allowed the buy back to be as low as £25 mill then that's a mistake on our part IMO. It isn't a mistake if that is the only way we could get him. Saints have benefited from his very low purchase price. He is clearly an absolute bargain at £5m, that is far below his worth. So a £20m profit for him isn't bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said: I hear you. Put it this way though, this is a much better scenario than we've faced in recent years. Look how much we lost on 'The Unsellables'! Absolutely!! Definitely a step in the correct direction. I love the new strategy from us, think it's brilliant. Edited 27 August, 2021 by niceandfriendly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 Just now, Matthew Le God said: It isn't a mistake if that is the only way we could get him. Saints have benefited from his very low purchase price. He is clearly an absolute bargain at £5m, that is far below his worth. So a £20m profit for him isn't bad. True true, but didn't we get him because he wasn't going to sign a new deal at Chelsea so they had to sell? And he chose us due to our clear pathway to the first team (and general all round sexiness as a club and fanbase)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwicksaint Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 My only concern with this signing and buy back clause is we have him for 2 years then he’s off and in the mean time we’ve held back KWP from fulfilling his potential. He’s only 24 so has a lot to give still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 So basically we've got two years of this forum pissing and moaning about this buy back clause. 4 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattster Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 12 minutes ago, warwicksaint said: My only concern with this signing and buy back clause is we have him for 2 years then he’s off and in the mean time we’ve held back KWP from fulfilling his potential. He’s only 24 so has a lot to give still I don't think the situation would be much different if we bought a bargain player outright who turned out to be special. Once bigger clubs take notice, and offer enough cash, they're off within 2-3 years anyway - that's just the way it is in the PL. The only thing the buy-back clause really does is limit the amount of profit we can make (still healthy, if it really is £40m), the flip side being it probably makes the initial purchase cheaper. I think it looks like a good deal, and we should enjoy him while we can. It would be interesting to know if there is a minimum duration in the buy-back, and what that is - at least if it is a couple of years, we can all relax a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwicksaint Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 6 minutes ago, Mattster said: I don't think the situation would be much different if we bought a bargain player outright who turned out to be special. Once bigger clubs take notice, and offer enough cash, they're off within 2-3 years anyway - that's just the way it is in the PL. The only thing the buy-back clause really does is limit the amount of profit we can make (still healthy, if it really is £40m), the flip side being it probably makes the initial purchase cheaper. I think it looks like a good deal, and we should enjoy him while we can. It would be interesting to know if there is a minimum duration in the buy-back, and what that is - at least if it is a couple of years, we can all relax a bit. Don’t disagree, think it’s been a good signing. Was just saying I hope we don’t limit KWP’s game time too much as he’s got the potential to be a really decent RB. Ideally we can get them playing together on the right hand side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy40 Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 In years to come, if alternative bids of £25m come in for him (or a higher sum of money), are we obliged to accept Chelsea's offer over any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 30 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said: True true, but didn't we get him because he wasn't going to sign a new deal at Chelsea so they had to sell? And he chose us due to our clear pathway to the first team (and general all round sexiness as a club and fanbase)? Did they? They could have just run down his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 Where has Wilson actually said that, because he certainly hasn’t tweeted anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 3 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said: Where has Wilson actually said that, because he certainly hasn’t tweeted anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 (edited) The article has now been edited to say 'at least £40m'. Quote A crucial detail in the deal, however, was the buy-back clause to Chelsea, understood to be at least £40 million. Should all go to plan, the pragmatic view was that Southampton were effectively being paid around £35 million to develop an outstanding player who could immediately improve their first team. A win, win perhaps. Edited 27 August, 2021 by Matthew Le God 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 43 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said: Did they? They could have just run down his contract. Of course, then lost him for nothing and they'd have got no buy back clause at his future club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 1 hour ago, CB Fry said: So basically we've got two years of this forum pissing and moaning about this buy back clause. If only we all had nothing to talk about ey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 13 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Jeremy Wilson article Now we're talking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 27 August, 2021 Share Posted 27 August, 2021 The buy back is there and of course is something that could happen, but I think often they are not exercised, Chelsea need to have the £40 million available at the right time, the space in the squad, the need in the position, the player has to want to return etc. Who knows if he is this good he could be wanting to follow his idol Ronaldo to Real Madrid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawillwill Posted 29 August, 2021 Share Posted 29 August, 2021 Looked like he pull a hamstring after the 2nd Newcastle goal yesterday. Hopefully I'm wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 29 August, 2021 Share Posted 29 August, 2021 18 minutes ago, jawillwill said: Looked like he pull a hamstring after the 2nd Newcastle goal yesterday. Hopefully I'm wrong... He didn't go off? but if he has a minor issue could drop out of England u21s to rest next couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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