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Tino Livramento


SuperSAINT
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1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve always thought these buy back clauses were an insurance policy in case the player develops better than they though he would and it stops a rival buying him off us. Chelsea got burnt with De Bruyne and Salah so maybe want to protect themselves. If they thought he’d be in their first team in 2 or 3 seasons, surely they’d just loan him out as they’ve done with countless others.

Not in this case though, surely? He turned down their contract offer, so they sold him before they lost him for a development fee, no?

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1 hour ago, egg said:

I guess it's about incentive to the club getting the player on loan...where's the incentive to play and develop the player? This arrangement gives us that, all while giving him the platform to develop and the carrot of possibly going back to Chelsea if he does well. It's a genuine everyone's a winner situation if he does well.

As long as the buy back clause is substantial enough!  The nightmare scenario is when it is too low and Chelsea but him back just to immediately sell him in for even more money!

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2 hours ago, Appy said:

Not sure the worry about Chelsea just yet is warranted. 
 

They have two of the best right backs in the league and Chalobah is there now too, they won’t be shelling out on him for a good while yet. 

It's not just whether he is wanted back in their first team though that will influence it . Chelsea could buy him back at £40m, and sell him to Real Madrid for double that the next day.

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2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

It's interesting isn't it how some payers really divide opinion yet when someone has that stardust it's immediately obvious as soon as they step foot on the pitch. Theo, AOC and Bale all had it too. You don't need any in depth football knowledge to see it. 

I wont make a judgement until someone tells me what his xg is.

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8 minutes ago, Badger said:

It's not just whether he is wanted back in their first team though that will influence it . Chelsea could buy him back at £40m, and sell him to Real Madrid for double that the next day.

Could that actually happen though? My understanding (which I'm sure MLG will be along shortly to correct) is that the buy back clause can only be activated if the player agrees to it. If Tino knows Chelsea are only buying him back to sell him on for a profit, could he not refuse? 

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13 minutes ago, Badger said:

It's not just whether he is wanted back in their first team though that will influence it . Chelsea could buy him back at £40m, and sell him to Real Madrid for double that the next day.

Isn't there a FIFA rule which says a player is only allowed one permanent transfer a window? There certainly used to be.

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12 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Could that actually happen though? My understanding (which I'm sure MLG will be along shortly to correct) is that the buy back clause can only be activated if the player agrees to it. If Tino knows Chelsea are only buying him back to sell him on for a profit, could he not refuse? 

I'm sure he'd have to agree to it but seems unlikely he'd opt to stay at Saints to forego a move to Madrid or wherever.

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Isn't there a FIFA rule which says a player is only allowed one permanent transfer a window? There certainly used to be.

Don't know, I thought there had been previous cases of this, although may have confused it with loan options returning somewhere before being sold. 

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44 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Could that actually happen though? My understanding (which I'm sure MLG will be along shortly to correct) is that the buy back clause can only be activated if the player agrees to it. If Tino knows Chelsea are only buying him back to sell him on for a profit, could he not refuse? 

He would obviously be bought back by Chelsea to play in their first team. 

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57 minutes ago, st alex said:

I wonder if he were to sign a new contract with us (in a year or two), whether that would invalidate the buy back clause, just as any release clause would be reevaluated?

Can't imagine that would work or we'd just get him to sign a new contract immediately. Zaha can't sign a new contract that invalidates United's sell-on clause, they will be different agreements.

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55 minutes ago, igsey said:

Can't imagine that would work or we'd just get him to sign a new contract immediately. Zaha can't sign a new contract that invalidates United's sell-on clause, they will be different agreements.

Without seeing the contract we'll never know but the obvious solution would be for these buy back clauses to have an expiration date - which I presume that they do.

That protects clubs in Saints' position by preventing clauses being used 10 (or however many) years later after multiple new contracts but also protects the club in Chelsea's position from having teh clause invalidated by a new contract. 

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6 hours ago, wild-saint said:

I thi

I think its been reported by numerous people close to Saints as closer to £40million. the rest of your post is opinion based on what you think is going through a kids mind. its just a likely that he will think that he wants 3 years growing as a player as a guaranteed starter before looking for a big move to whoever looks the best path for his future career. That may or may not be Chelsea for £40m. 

I'd heard £40m reported too, but also £25m, so going with worst-case scenario. 

And yes, it's a subjective POV (just like the majority of posts on here) but I certainly don't mean it as a slight. I think it's good business, but I also think he'll be gone before his 20th birthday. Going to enjoy watching him play in a Saints shirt until that time comes.

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2 hours ago, st alex said:

I wonder if he were to sign a new contract with us (in a year or two), whether that would invalidate the buy back clause, just as any release clause would be reevaluated?

They are different contracts; one is between selling club and buying club and the other is between buying club and player. Changing the players contract has zero effect* on the contract between clubs.

*the amount of the buyback can be linked to variables such appearances, call ups and possibly wages.

To get rid of the buy back cause we would have to pay Chelsea.

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42 minutes ago, Clapham Saint said:

 

Without seeing the contract we'll never know but the obvious solution would be for these buy back clauses to have an expiration date - which I presume that they do.

That protects clubs in Saints' position by preventing clauses being used 10 (or however many) years later after multiple new contracts but also protects the club in Chelsea's position from having teh clause invalidated by a new contract. 

There will be an activation window (ie not before x date, and not after y date) and a minimum notice period I'd imagine. 

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1 hour ago, kitch said:

I'd heard £40m reported too, but also £25m, so going with worst-case scenario. 

And yes, it's a subjective POV (just like the majority of posts on here) but I certainly don't mean it as a slight. I think it's good business, but I also think he'll be gone before his 20th birthday. Going to enjoy watching him play in a Saints shirt until that time comes.

Agree, I think we will have 2 years but that’s pretty much what we would get out of any successful  top drawer signing we make I would imagine. Certainly great to have a new superstar in the making to watch.

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4 hours ago, Badger said:

I'm sure he'd have to agree to it but seems unlikely he'd opt to stay at Saints to forego a move to Madrid or wherever.

Well no, obviously not. But if Real/Barca/Bayern were after him then they would deal directly with his agent rather than going through Chelsea. Chelsea's buy back option is only valid if he agrees terms with them, which he doesn't have to do.

The only way the buy back happens is if they want him for their first team and no bigger clubs are bidding for him. And with the resources Chelsea already have in that position, it's unlikely they will be looking to sign a first choice RB before the buy back clause expires.

Of course he won't stay at Saints long, so let's just enjoy having him while we can, but I seriously doubt he will actually end up back at Chelsea. 

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On 22/08/2021 at 20:15, SuperSAINT said:

It's the beauty of their literally being a space for them too. 

It's not like we're saying: "Oh come and join us, Thierry, you'll get games" when we've got 3 senior left-backs tucked away somewhere.

There's no left-backs until you get to the U18's.

Presumably there are no LBs even in the u18s, considering Small is technically an u17. Wonder why it has all gone so wrong for this position in the Academy, it used to be our strength, Bridge, Bale, Shaw, Targett, McQueen. 

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The buyback could be £10m and it would still be a good news story for us.

We've got a highly capable player that will make us better for at least one season.  We can then let him go for a massive profit.

I know not everyone likes our way of doing things, but our work this summer is putting us back on the map as one of THE best destinations for emerging talent.

Edited by Sunglasses Ron
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2 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

The buyback could be £10m and it would still be a good news story for us.

No it wouldn't. £25mil would be a bitter pill to swallow, let alone 10!

I agree with you our way of doing things is brilliant, but this kid's clearly worth more than £25 million already. We got him because he refused to sign a deal with Chelsea and wanted a chance to play. If we've allowed the buy back to be as low as £25 mill then that's a mistake on our part IMO.

Edited by niceandfriendly
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4 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said:

No it wouldn't. £25mil would be a bitter pill to swallow, let alone 10!

I agree with you our way of doing things is brilliant, but this kid's clearly worth more than £25 million already. We got him because he refused to sign a deal with Chelsea and wanted a chance to play. If we've allowed the buy back to be as low as £25 mill then that's a mistake on our part IMO.

It isn't a mistake if that is the only way we could get him.

Saints have benefited from his very low purchase price. He is clearly an absolute bargain at £5m, that is far below his worth. So a £20m profit for him isn't bad. 

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4 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

I hear you.

Put it this way though, this is a much better scenario than we've faced in recent years.  Look how much we lost on 'The Unsellables'!

Absolutely!! :) Definitely a step in the correct direction. I love the new strategy from us, think it's brilliant. 

Edited by niceandfriendly
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Just now, Matthew Le God said:

It isn't a mistake if that is the only way we could get him.

Saints have benefited from his very low purchase price. He is clearly an absolute bargain at £5m, that is far below his worth. So a £20m profit for him isn't bad. 

True true, but didn't we get him because he wasn't going to sign a new deal at Chelsea so they had to sell? And he chose us due to our clear pathway to the first team (and general all round sexiness as a club and fanbase)?

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12 minutes ago, warwicksaint said:

My only concern with this signing and buy back clause is we have him for 2 years then he’s off and in the mean time we’ve held back KWP from fulfilling his potential. He’s only 24 so has a lot to give still

I don't think the situation would be much different if we bought a bargain player outright who turned out to be special. Once bigger clubs take notice, and offer enough cash, they're off within 2-3 years anyway - that's just the way it is in the PL. The only thing the buy-back clause really does is limit the amount of profit we can make (still healthy, if it really is £40m), the flip side being it probably makes the initial purchase cheaper. I think it looks like a good deal, and we should enjoy him while we can. It would be interesting to know if there is a minimum duration in the buy-back, and what that is - at least if it is a couple of years, we can all relax a bit.

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6 minutes ago, Mattster said:

I don't think the situation would be much different if we bought a bargain player outright who turned out to be special. Once bigger clubs take notice, and offer enough cash, they're off within 2-3 years anyway - that's just the way it is in the PL. The only thing the buy-back clause really does is limit the amount of profit we can make (still healthy, if it really is £40m), the flip side being it probably makes the initial purchase cheaper. I think it looks like a good deal, and we should enjoy him while we can. It would be interesting to know if there is a minimum duration in the buy-back, and what that is - at least if it is a couple of years, we can all relax a bit.

Don’t disagree, think it’s been a good signing. Was just saying I hope we don’t limit KWP’s game time too much as he’s got the potential to be a really decent RB. Ideally we can get them playing together on the right hand side 

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30 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said:

True true, but didn't we get him because he wasn't going to sign a new deal at Chelsea so they had to sell? And he chose us due to our clear pathway to the first team (and general all round sexiness as a club and fanbase)?

Did they? They could have just run down his contract.

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The article has now been edited to say 'at least £40m'.

Quote

A crucial detail in the deal, however, was the buy-back clause to Chelsea, understood to be at least £40 million. Should all go to plan, the pragmatic view was that Southampton were effectively being paid around £35 million to develop an outstanding player who could immediately improve their first team. A win, win perhaps.

 

Edited by Matthew Le God
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The buy back is there and of course is something that could happen, but I think often they are not exercised, Chelsea need to have the £40 million available at the right time, the space in the squad, the need in the position, the player has to want to return etc. Who knows if he is this good he could be wanting to follow his idol Ronaldo to Real Madrid 

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18 minutes ago, jawillwill said:

Looked like he pull a hamstring after the 2nd Newcastle goal yesterday. Hopefully I'm wrong...

He didn't go off? but if he has a minor issue could drop out of England u21s to rest next couple of weeks.

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Tino Livramento

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