Tino Livramento

[RedWillie]

I thought he was  excellent. Skillful,  attacking minded and put a real shift in.  He was dead on his feet at the end but we have a real talent there.

[Whitey Grandad]

I found out today that ‘livramento’ is Italian for ‘dogs bollocks’

Ninety minutes seem to be a stranger to him. He was shattered for the last twenty five minutes.

[Charlie Wayman]

Conundrum from Ralph as Chelsea will almost certainly have a buy back clause in his transfer contract so Tino will be off in a couple of years. If we piss off Kyle in the meantime and he wants out as well we'll be back in sheiss creek paddleless once again. Your problem Ralph!

[woodsaint1]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

I only managed to see the second half of the Everton game and he didn't really stand out in that but then the  whole side looked a bit crap.  Today though I thought he was excellent.  Looked as if he tired a bit in the second half but that's fair enough and he wasn't the only one to do that.  If he continues to improve as you'd expect him to then I can easily see him dominating that right flank.  If Armstrong is out in future then I think I'd rather see a combination of KWP and Livramento than having Walcott in the starting 11. 

He was quality in the first half last week. Will take him time to reach the level of fitness required for a PL full back (in a Ralph team too), its a huge demand compared with the u23 football he was playing 

[Saint86]

How have we signed this kid? And for £5m as well!!!!

I don't understand.

I also don't understand how we have fans complaining about the quality of our recent signings when they've all been on the average to very good side of the spectrum.

[Killers Knee]

1 minute ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Conundrum from Ralph as Chelsea will almost certainly have a buy back clause in his transfer contract so Tino will be off in a couple of years. If we piss off Kyle in the meantime and he wants out as well we'll be back in sheiss creek paddleless once again. Your problem Ralph!

But if we keep battle readying their hot-prospects we will have a conveyor belt of incoming talent

[TWar]

18 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

How have we signed this kid? And for £5m as well!!!!

I don't understand.

I also don't understand how we have fans complaining about the quality of our recent signings when they've all been on the average to very good side of the spectrum.

We've signed him because we develop youngsters incredibly well and playing with Ralph and for JWP is apparently a big draw. 

It was a mad pick up though, this lad is so so good. 

Edited 22 August, 2021 by TWar

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Conundrum from Ralph as Chelsea will almost certainly have a buy back clause in his transfer contract so Tino will be off in a couple of years. If we piss off Kyle in the meantime and he wants out as well we'll be back in sheiss creek paddleless once again. Your problem Ralph!

The buyback is like £40m apparently. If we sell him for that we won't care about pissing off KWP, that is a tonne of money. 

[Charlie Wayman]

15 minutes ago, TWar said:

The buyback is like £40m apparently. If we sell him for that we won't care about pissing off KWP, that is a tonne of money. 

Is that a fact, I didn't know that. Amazing that we seem not to have room for KWP, Diallo and Stuart A in our team and I hope to goodness we don't forget Tella. Tella might be a very good fit with Alan A on today's showing, Adams was defo second best to AA and by some margin?

Nice problems to have!

 

Oh! and there's a another guy called Redmond............ what happened to him?

Edited 22 August, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[Pancake]

Can someone explain what the mythical “buy back clause” actually means in layman’s terms please? Having a “discussion” with my Chelsea supporting Bro in Law and want to prove him wrong. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Is that a fact, I didn't know that. Amazing that we seem not to have room for KWP, Diallo and Stuart A in our team and I hope to goodness we don't forget Tella. Tella might be a very good fit with Alan A on today's showing, Adams was defo second best to AA and by some margin?

Nice problems to have!

Disagree with the Adams point. He put it on a plate for Armstrong to miss and his passing and tracking back was ace. He sits a lot deeper than with Ings so he is playing much more as a 10 now in a 4231.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Pancake said:

Can someone explain what the mythical “buy back clause” actually means in layman’s terms please? Having a “discussion” with my Chelsea supporting Bro in Law and want to prove him wrong. 

In essence if Chelsea offer us a certain amount (reports are about £40m) then we have to accept it and they get to attempt to agree personal terms with Tino. He has no obligation to accept personal terms however if he wants to stay with us

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Pancake said:

Can someone explain what the mythical “buy back clause” actually means in layman’s terms please? Having a “discussion” with my Chelsea supporting Bro in Law and want to prove him wrong. 

It used to mean that if we wanted to sell they would have first dibs buy anything can be written into a contract of sale.

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It used to mean that if we wanted to sell they would have first dibs buy anything can be written into a contract of sale.

That's a "right of first refusal" clause, it's a different thing. A buyback means they can sign him for X amount of money regardless of if we want them to, he however does get a say. 

[Saint_clark]

I feel a wantaway KWP saga around the corner...

[egg]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

I feel a wantaway KWP saga around the corner...

I'm not sure about that, but he won't be happy playing second fiddle to Tino though. 

[TWar]

Just now, egg said:

I'm not sure about that, but he won't be happy playing second fiddle to Tino though. 

If he wants a spot he'd better earn it, as it should be. 

Have a feeling over the international break we might try Tino as a attacking mid as they are playing a lot more like wingers atm. One side kwp Tino and the other perraud djenepo sounds quite good going forward but would also offer great play against the ball. 

[egg]

Just now, TWar said:

If he wants a spot he'd better earn it, as it should be. 

Have a feeling over the international break we might try Tino as a attacking mid as they are playing a lot more like wingers atm. One side kwp Tino and the other perraud djenepo sounds quite good going forward but would also offer great play against the ball. 

I'm not so sure. We looked much better today with more men in the middle and less out wide. 

[Convict Colony]

I think everyone who laughed at Twar's "insane" contract for Tino needs to eat humble pie.

For 5mil this is insane.

[JRM]

9 minutes ago, TWar said:

If he wants a spot he'd better earn it, as it should be. 

Have a feeling over the international break we might try Tino as a attacking mid as they are playing a lot more like wingers atm. One side kwp Tino and the other perraud djenepo sounds quite good going forward but would also offer great play against the ball. 

Tino will be away with the England squad if he keeps this up. 

[LGTL]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

How have we signed this kid? And for £5m as well!!!!

I don't understand.

I also don't understand how we have fans complaining about the quality of our recent signings when they've all been on the average to very good side of the spectrum.

Because we will develop him and probably sell him back to Chelsea for a healthy profit. Doubt he’ll be here long so enjoy while you can!

[Dusic]

Imagine Livramento might only be here for a season so lets just enjoy the fact it was an insane signing for £5m and whatever happens we stand to make a major profit. No point being worried about what Chelsea do as we cannot influence it.

Would imagine his involvement has also made a lot of promising talents take notice (Thierry Small perhaps). Clubs talk about pathways, Saints have given Tino one after two weeks.

[Roo1976]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Conundrum from Ralph as Chelsea will almost certainly have a buy back clause in his transfer contract so Tino will be off in a couple of years. If we piss off Kyle in the meantime and he wants out as well we'll be back in sheiss creek paddleless once again. Your problem Ralph!

No problem if he shifts KWP or Tino to rb and right midfield .............use Walcott as an impact sub or S.Armstrong or Tella there are options now . Btw we fucking need a new

keeper .How could he have not saved that one!!!!!!................

[Roo1976]

Btw A.Armstrong should have scored........................big big chance.

[Sir Ralph]

Kid is great. Reminds me of SHAW at same age.

[benjii]

He looks good and obviously has great potential but people are going overboard. Personally, I think KWP offers more of an all round game. 
 

[SuperSAINT]

27 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Imagine Livramento might only be here for a season so lets just enjoy the fact it was an insane signing for £5m and whatever happens we stand to make a major profit. No point being worried about what Chelsea do as we cannot influence it.

Would imagine his involvement has also made a lot of promising talents take notice (Thierry Small perhaps). Clubs talk about pathways, Saints have given Tino one after two weeks.

It's the beauty of their literally being a space for them too. 

It's not like we're saying: "Oh come and join us, Thierry, you'll get games" when we've got 3 senior left-backs tucked away somewhere.

There's no left-backs until you get to the U18's.

[ChrisPY]

Don’t understand the comparisons with Bale. Gareth was doing it against Championship players. Tino is shrugging off £50m Prem players.

If he can consistently deliver what we’ve seen so far and improve things like his decision making going forward, we’ll be lucky to see him in a Saints shirt in his 20s.

No lose really, even if he runs his contact down and leaves on a free.

[S-Clarke]

I'd like to see him in front of KWP, those two as an attacking combo could be f**ing frightning.

Tino is top level though, he has a swagger about him that you see in the Elite players at a young age. Certainly very exciting.

[Convict Colony]

21 minutes ago, benjii said:

He looks good and obviously has great potential but people are going overboard. Personally, I think KWP offers more of an all round game. 
 

Arguably our best player v Everton and given MOM today by the commentary team.

As impacts go he has had a big one.

I expect his form to dip but while it's good let's enjoy it.

[austsaint]

6 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Conundrum from Ralph as Chelsea will almost certainly have a buy back clause in his transfer contract so Tino will be off in a couple of years. If we piss off Kyle in the meantime and he wants out as well we'll be back in sheiss creek paddleless once again. Your problem Ralph!

Yes, but surely Ralph has to find a place for both.   Today it was a cameo for KWP at LB but he is too good a player not to be starting.  On what we have seen of Livramento, he can surely play in front of KWP either as a wing back role or more advanced where Walcott started today.   Could be a good partnership.   The dilemma then arises when Armstrong (S) is fit he probably slots in to Walcott's spot.    Compounding the problem is the bright way Djenepo has started the season; could S. Armstrong fit in wide left?    One thing is becoming clearer...Walcott and Redmond should be impact rather than starting players as things stand.     Does anyone know the terms of Livramento's contract?     How soon can Chelsea buy him back?    He is going to be a super player!    It's quite bizarre that in a side struggling for quality across the pitch we have two of the best right backs in the Country....and both English!

[Saint_clark]

5 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I'd like to see him in front of KWP, those two as an attacking combo could be f**ing frightning.

Tino is top level though, he has a swagger about him that you see in the Elite players at a young age. Certainly very exciting.

KWP and Tino on the right, Perraud and Stuart Armstrong on the left sounds as good as we've had down the wings for a long time. 

[rooney]

He is class.

[kitch]

We're basically being paid to take him on loan for an indeterminate length of time, which is excellent business all the whilst we can use him. Kid is different class, properly skillful.

[saintrich]

Looks great, really strong too - there were a few runs where he out muscled both Pogba and Shaw in the same sequence, that would have been sure to have turned a few heads in the Utd team. 

[Matthew Le God]

24 minutes ago, kitch said:

We're basically being paid to take him on loan for an indeterminate length of time

Not at all.

Sure Chelsea might opt to buy him back, but loans don't see the loaning club make a huge profit. Plus the buy back clauses like Chelsea have normally have cut off dates.

Edited 23 August, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[kitch]

33 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Not at all.

Sure Chelsea might opt to buy him back, but loans don't see the loaning club make a huge profit. Plus the buy back clauses like Chelsea have normally have cut off dates.

Well obviously I don't mean it literally, but in essence, that's what it is: Chelsea are employing us to develop him. They didn't want to give him the PL minutes that a club like us could, so they've accepted a token payment and should he prove good enough (and he clearly will), then they'll buy him buy when he's been left in the oven a bit longer.

We'll get financially recompensed for our efforts when he goes, and we benefit from having him in our team. Chelsea benefit from us baking him until he's done, and then they can use him themselves. Buyback is rumoured to be around £25m, which is already looking like a steal in this day & age, and the only way it could be hijacked (assuming any approach is made within the cut-off date, as you say) is if Tino himself turned it down, which he won't, because he's a local lad to Chelsea and grew up as a fan, and he can win things with them.

It's wooden dollars, but that is effectively what it is - we're being paid to borrow him and develop him. I think it's sound business.

[wild-saint]

I thi

1 hour ago, kitch said:

Well obviously I don't mean it literally, but in essence, that's what it is: Chelsea are employing us to develop him. They didn't want to give him the PL minutes that a club like us could, so they've accepted a token payment and should he prove good enough (and he clearly will), then they'll buy him buy when he's been left in the oven a bit longer.

We'll get financially recompensed for our efforts when he goes, and we benefit from having him in our team. Chelsea benefit from us baking him until he's done, and then they can use him themselves. Buyback is rumoured to be around £25m, which is already looking like a steal in this day & age, and the only way it could be hijacked (assuming any approach is made within the cut-off date, as you say) is if Tino himself turned it down, which he won't, because he's a local lad to Chelsea and grew up as a fan, and he can win things with them.

It's wooden dollars, but that is effectively what it is - we're being paid to borrow him and develop him. I think it's sound business.

I think its been reported by numerous people close to Saints as closer to £40million. the rest of your post is opinion based on what you think is going through a kids mind. its just a likely that he will think that he wants 3 years growing as a player as a guaranteed starter before looking for a big move to whoever looks the best path for his future career. That may or may not be Chelsea for £40m. 

[hypochondriac]

What a nice problem to have though. We have a player that looks so starkly superior to everyone else that he's just obviously destined for greater things after just two games. Yes we may get £30 million for him and not £100 million but it's still great for us for a few seasons. Assuming we don't get relegated of course! 

Edited 23 August, 2021 by hypochondriac

[Appy]

Not sure the worry about Chelsea just yet is warranted. 
 

They have two of the best right backs in the league and Chalobah is there now too, they won’t be shelling out on him for a good while yet. 

[egg]

2 hours ago, kitch said:

We're basically being paid to take him on loan for an indeterminate length of time, which is excellent business all the whilst we can use him. Kid is different class, properly skillful.

Pretty much this. I look at it as us paying something akin to a loan fee which, plus his wages, is our maximum outlay. If the buy back clause is invoked, the fee that they give us is a kind of development fee. It's brilliant business. 

[Miltonaggro]

This boy is some player, that combo of power, poise and an ability to read the game is rare but clear for all to see.  I hope that he tears up trees for Saints while he's here and gives himself a few seasons to bed into the Prem - he could potentially leave at 21 as a burgeoning superstar!

[Saint Matty 76]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Pretty much this. I look at it as us paying something akin to a loan fee which, plus his wages, is our maximum outlay. If the buy back clause is invoked, the fee that they give us is a kind of development fee. It's brilliant business. 

If we get 2, at best 3 years out of him and he goes for the £40m buy-back rumoured, we've had a great time of it. Realistically there's no hope of any non-homegrown player joining us and not moving on in that general timeframe anyway if they're a large success. 

Whilst the academy is absolutely dry, this is a welcome way for us to see some of the best young talent in the country week-in week-out. It's a tiny sample size but I'd be very surprised if this kid doesn't make it to the absolute highest level.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

If we get 2, at best 3 years out of him and he goes for the £40m buy-back rumoured, we've had a great time of it. Realistically there's no hope of any non-homegrown player joining us and not moving on in that general timeframe anyway if they're a large success. 

Whilst the academy is absolutely dry, this is a welcome way for us to see some of the best young talent in the country week-in week-out. It's a tiny sample size but I'd be very surprised if this kid doesn't make it to the absolute highest level.

It's interesting isn't it how some payers really divide opinion yet when someone has that stardust it's immediately obvious as soon as they step foot on the pitch. Theo, AOC and Bale all had it too. You don't need any in depth football knowledge to see it. 

[rooney]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

It's interesting isn't it how some payers really divide opinion yet when someone has that stardust it's immediately obvious as soon as they step foot on the pitch. Theo, AOC and Bale all had it too. You don't need any in depth football knowledge to see it. 

Its the same when interviewing someone for a job, some sparkle, some do not.

[davefizzy14]

Tino is completely on another level. We have got a phenomenal talent on our hands

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’ve always thought these buy back clauses were an insurance policy in case the player develops better than they though he would and it stops a rival buying him off us. Chelsea got burnt with De Bruyne and Salah so maybe want to protect themselves. If they thought he’d be in their first team in 2 or 3 seasons, surely they’d just loan him out as they’ve done with countless others.
 

From his first 2 games you have to say he’s looked the part, but to be a top player you need to continue your progress after sides make specific plans for you, and get to know your game. A lot of good prospects get found out and can’t adapt and develop their game to kick on. Let’s hope he can as he looks a real talent. 

[austsaint]

23 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

It's interesting isn't it how some payers really divide opinion yet when someone has that stardust it's immediately obvious as soon as they step foot on the pitch. Theo, AOC and Bale all had it too. You don't need any in depth football knowledge to see it. 

You can add Luke Shaw to that list of recognisable stardust.

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, austsaint said:

You can add Luke Shaw to that list of recognisable stardust.

Yep. It's like they're operating on a different level to the other players. May be harder to spot in a team of megastars like Chelsea or City. 

[egg]

11 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve always thought these buy back clauses were an insurance policy in case the player develops better than they though he would and it stops a rival buying him off us. Chelsea got burnt with De Bruyne and Salah so maybe want to protect themselves. If they thought he’d be in their first team in 2 or 3 seasons, surely they’d just loan him out as they’ve done with countless others.
 

From his first 2 games you have to say he’s looked the part, but to be a top player you need to continue your progress after sides make specific plans for you, and get to know your game. A lot of good prospects get found out and can’t adapt and develop their game to kick on. Let’s hope he can as he looks a real talent. 

I guess it's about incentive to the club getting the player on loan...where's the incentive to play and develop the player? This arrangement gives us that, all while giving him the platform to develop and the carrot of possibly going back to Chelsea if he does well. It's a genuine everyone's a winner situation if he does well.