Tino Livramento

[JRM]

He's withdrawn from England u21s apparently so must have picked up a knock 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, JRM said:

He's withdrawn from England u21s apparently so must have picked up a knock 

Gutted for the lad. Hope he rests up and is fit for Norwich. Also, on the topic of Livra for england, his mum is scottish, I wonder if he might be convinced by Che and Stu to swap allegiances. He walks into that scotland side but with James and TAA in front of him and still young he may never seen meaningful England minutes.

[manzo]

On 05/11/2021 at 12:29, TWar said:

Athletic have pretty reliably said it is a buyback clause of £50m but as they get a share of sell on they'd only have to pay £38m. It becomes active in 2023. 

I keep seeing this mentioned, are you sure this is correct? I've always considered the two options as completely separate; we have to accept an offer of £50m from Chelsea, but if we accept an offer from anyone else, we have to pay Chelsea 24% of that fee (if your figures are correct, though that seems like a strange sell-on fee percentage).

[qwertyell]

27 minutes ago, TWar said:

Gutted for the lad. Hope he rests up and is fit for Norwich. Also, on the topic of Livra for england, his mum is scottish, I wonder if he might be convinced by Che and Stu to swap allegiances. He walks into that scotland side but with James and TAA in front of him and still young he may never seen meaningful England minutes.

He'd be more likely to choose Portugal, given that he's ambitious and good.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, manzo said:

I keep seeing this mentioned, are you sure this is correct? I've always considered the two options as completely separate; we have to accept an offer of £50m from Chelsea, but if we accept an offer from anyone else, we have to pay Chelsea 24% of that fee (if your figures are correct, though that seems like a strange sell-on fee percentage).

I believe it is a sell on fee of the profit, and it is 25% but we paid like £3-4m for him up front so its a saving of 25% of £47-48m which is £~11.5m. That off of £50m is £38m ish. There is definitely some rounding going on.

[manzo]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

I believe it is a sell on fee of the profit, and it is 25% but we paid like £3-4m for him up front so its a saving of 25% of £47-48m which is £~11.5m. That off of £50m is £38m ish. There is definitely some rounding going on.

Sorry, brain is struggling today, I forgot it was percentage of profit.

Still not convinced that the sell-on fee translates into a discount for Chelsea though!

[CB Fry]

23 minutes ago, manzo said:

Sorry, brain is struggling today, I forgot it was percentage of profit.

Still not convinced that the sell-on fee translates into a discount for Chelsea though!

In practice it would. If Liverpool want him and bid £50m, Chelsea only have to bid £38m to "match" it (ie we get the same fee in either scenario).

[Jeremy Corbyn]

1 hour ago, qwertyell said:

He'd be more likely to choose Portugal, given that he's ambitious and good.

I read an article, albeit by a Scottish journalist, that quoted TL as saying that his Mum, the Scottish half, was really pushing him to play for Scotland.  Obviously he's good enough to have a shot at England eventually but if things don't go to plan and with the glut of right backs we have you never know.  Portugal obviously a strong nation but Scotland being domestic and having a sort of golden generation could be tempting.

[kitch]

I'm looking forward to the next game just so I can watch him play football again. Genuinely the most exciting signing we've made for years, and he's a defender!

[LiberalCommunist]

When I watch him, I just feel the beedy envious eyes of Klopp and co. And it worries me shitless. 

If we are to have two years max, then I can live with that. But can the media refrain from selling him to everyone and their dog in the summer, just for once. 

[HarvSFC]

The one advantage is that there’s an abundance of quality right-backs at the moment, we have two of them! 

Liverpool have Alexander-Arnold, who will be their mainstay for the next few years, likewise Chelsea and James. City have Walker and Cancelo. Walker’s 31, but isn’t showing any signs of slowing at this current time. Arsenal have Cedric and got him out of their side with the young Japanese right-back Tomiyasu, who has started well. This leaves just Manchester United as the only other realistic move Livramento would make and Wan-Bissaka is having a poor season. They did spend £50m on him, though, so may be reluctant to give up so soon and they may hope a better coach can get more from him, given his strengths are supposed to be in his defending.

[Matthew Le God]

2 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

When I watch him, I just feel the beedy envious eyes of Klopp and co. And it worries me shitless. 

Liverpool have no need for first choice right back.

[tunit]

I was annoyed when I learned about the 40m buy back clause Chelsea have just incase he turns out to be a star, and it looks like that is the case. I think at the end of next season we could be looking at a player worth VVD sort of money... Thats if he continues in this form. I thought the Villa game was the only game I've seen where he looked off. But they were doubling up and fouling him all game so can't really be blamed for that.

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, tunit said:

I was annoyed when I learned about the 40m buy back clause Chelsea have just incase he turns out to be a star, and it looks like that is the case. I think at the end of next season we could be looking at a player worth VVD sort of money... Thats if he continues in this form. I thought the Villa game was the only game I've seen where he looked off. But they were doubling up and fouling him all game so can't really be blamed for that.

Without the buyback clause he would probably have cost a lot more.

[CB Fry]

4 hours ago, tunit said:

I was annoyed when I learned about the 40m buy back clause Chelsea have just incase he turns out to be a star, and it looks like that is the case. I think at the end of next season we could be looking at a player worth VVD sort of money... 

Really it would be easier for all concerned if he was just shit. Then we could go back moaning about lack of cover at full back, and how Chelsea pulled our pants down for five million quid.

[austsaint]

8 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

When I watch him, I just feel the beedy envious eyes of Klopp and co. And it worries me shitless. 

If we are to have two years max, then I can live with that. But can the media refrain from selling him to everyone and their dog in the summer, just for once. 

It's inevitable though isn't it?   A player with his precocious talent is hardly going to go unrecognised - think back to Bale, Shaw, even Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain.   We've just got to enjoy him while he's here and also give credit to Crocker et al who did a great bit of business with CFC.

[miserableoldgit]

13 hours ago, austsaint said:

It's inevitable though isn't it?   A player with his precocious talent is hardly going to go unrecognised - think back to Bale, Shaw, even Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain.   We've just got to enjoy him while he's here and also give credit to Crocker et al who did a great bit of business with CFC.

Sadly (or not?) this is the business model that the Club adheres to.......find young gems cheaply, turn them into stars and sell them for big bucks. To a degree, in our current financial position with the Club being self-sustaining, it has to be the correct path to follow.

[egg]

21 hours ago, LiberalCommunist said:

When I watch him, I just feel the beedy envious eyes of Klopp and co. And it worries me shitless. 

If we are to have two years max, then I can live with that. But can the media refrain from selling him to everyone and their dog in the summer, just for once. 

Worrying ain't going to stop a footballer getting sold. Regardless, he wont go to Liverpool whilst "Trent" is there. For what it's worth, I doubt he'll go back to Chelsea whilst James is there either. The only big English clubs that I could see needing him in the next couple of seasons are Man Utd (he's better than Wan Bisaka already imo) or Man City. 

[kitch]

On 19/11/2021 at 22:33, austsaint said:

It's inevitable though isn't it?   A player with his precocious talent is hardly going to go unrecognised - think back to Bale, Shaw, even Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain.   We've just got to enjoy him while he's here and also give credit to Crocker et al who did a great bit of business with CFC.

It's cracking business. We're effectively being paid to play him, and he's easily 1st choice even if we weren't. Signing of the season in the PL, for me, when you take into account the financial aspects.

[Saint Garrett]

Had a couple of poor games IMO, Don't know if thats because he is being more targetted by opposition, but looked off the pace in both the Villa and Norwich games. 

I'd be temted to give him the Liverpool game off, and bring him back for the next one.

Clearly a massive talent, but he's still so young. Perraud has also done nothing wrong.

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

Had a couple of poor games IMO, Don't know if thats because he is being more targetted by opposition, but looked off the pace in both the Villa and Norwich games. 

I'd be temted to give him the Liverpool game off, and bring him back for the next one.

Clearly a massive talent, but he's still so young. Perraud has also done nothing wrong.

Agree. I think he is jaded and has lost a bit of confidence, if you noticed he's more prone to passing backwards now rather than taking a man on. His one on one defending has looked bit shaky too. It has cost us and for large parts of his last couple of games the right wing threat has diminished.

As to his future, it is good for us that James has been so outstanding for Chelsea that the spotlight on Livramento may have dimmed somewhat.

Edited 22 November, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[danjosaint]

That's Ralph coaching him out of being offensive just like he's done to djenpo 

[Sunglasses Ron]

On 19/11/2021 at 21:58, CB Fry said:

Really it would be easier for all concerned if he was just shit. Then we could go back moaning about lack of cover at full back, and how Chelsea pulled our pants down for five million quid.

Haha this!  There is literally no down-side for us when it comes to TL!

[cloggy saint]

4 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

Haha this!  There is literally no down-side for us when it comes to TL!

Although I'm sure some ray of sunshine will manage to find one.

[Koolman]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/premier-league

[TWar]

On 22/11/2021 at 14:30, danjosaint said:

That's Ralph coaching him out of being offensive just like he's done to djenpo 

More like that's us introducing KWP in LB who himself is a very attacking advanced player so Livra needs to spend more time back than he would have to if he was the only attacking fullback. Whilst Perraud is clearly gifted in an attacking sense for some reason he wasn't anywhere near as ambitious as KWP has been.

[Sheaf Saint]

Time to take him out of the firing line and give him a rest I think.

He's obviously a huge talent, but his defending last night was poor (not for the first time) and he was largely culpable for their second goal. 

KWP has had a couple of good games on the left but is so much better defensively on the right. I don't think Perraud has done much wrong so far, and Small has been racking up the games in the B team to get his fitness up so we have other options at LB rather than shoehorning KWP in there.

[rallyboy]

Reluctantly I agree - he is a great player, but last night he met his match and was beaten very easily several times.

Now we have a squad of sorts, we need to use it.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

3 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Time to take him out of the firing line and give him a rest I think.

He's obviously a huge talent, but his defending last night was poor (not for the first time) and he was largely culpable for their second goal. 

KWP has had a couple of good games on the left but is so much better defensively on the right. I don't think Perraud has done much wrong so far, and Small has been racking up the games in the B team to get his fitness up so we have other options at LB rather than shoehorning KWP in there.

Yep, I'd agree. He's played every minute of every Prem game so far in his first season at this level. It can take it's toll on more experienced pros so, with games coming thick and fast in December, Brighton might be the game to give him a breather. What a remains though is just what a fine player he's going to be.

[Charlie Wayman]

It's been obvious to most for a couple of weeks or more and Blackmore asked Ralph point blank why he didn't give the lad a rest during the PC. Typically though Ralph can't see past his blinkers, the same blinkers that have kept Tella on the sidelines all season, McCarthy in goal for every match and Walcott in a starting XI.

Those same blinkers will see Livramento at LB on Saturday even though he had a mare last night. 

[TWar]

8 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

It's been obvious to most for a couple of weeks or more and Blackmore asked Ralph point blank why he didn't give the lad a rest during the PC. Typically though Ralph can't see past his blinkers, the same blinkers that have kept Tella on the sidelines all season, McCarthy in goal for every match and Walcott in a starting XI.

Those same blinkers will see Livramento at LB on Saturday even though he had a mare last night. 

I wouldn't say he had a mare. He certainly wasn't as effective as KWP on the other side but was mostly solid.

[Dman]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

I wouldn't say he had a mare. He certainly wasn't as effective as KWP on the other side but was mostly solid.

He was pretty shite last night, it’s fine to admit it. He’s a young lad who’s been continuously played with no rest and is started to get found out a tad for his defensively ability. I’ve no doubt he’s absolutely knackered, not just physically but mentally as well. 

The second goal he showed his immaturity and dived in allowing Maddison to cut in on his stronger foot. Compare that to the experience of Evans who done completely the opposite when broja had a chance late on, causing him to turn into trouble. 

It’s a real shame that our 2 best players play in the same position, but I think it’s time to give KWP a run out for a while. We’d certainly be no weaker. 
 

 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Young players have dips in form. They suffer from  mental fatigue more than physical because the concentration levels required are so much higher than they’re used to. They also get found out a bit, opposition will watch video after video and target their weaknesses. It’s a delicate balancing act to manager them, they have to learn from their mistakes, learn to manage themselves and iron out their weaknesses, but they also need taking out of the firing kind every now and again. Ralph is in the great position of being able to replace him with one of our better players. Personally, I’d leave him out, it gives him a break, but also gives Ralph the opportunity to give him 10/15 min cameos playing ahead of KWP to see how that could pan out. 

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Young players have dips in form. They suffer from  mental fatigue more than physical because the concentration levels required are so much higher than they’re used to. They also get found out a bit, opposition will watch video after video and target their weaknesses. It’s a delicate balancing act to manager them, they have to learn from their mistakes, learn to manage themselves and iron out their weaknesses, but they also need taking out of the firing kind every now and again. Ralph is in the great position of being able to replace him with one of our better players. Personally, I’d leave him out, it gives him a break, but also gives Ralph the opportunity to give him 10/15 min cameos playing ahead of KWP to see how that could pan out. 

Agreed. It’s a learning process and the reason why he is learning with us now and not at Chelsea.

[rooney]

We must not overface this very talented young man.

[TWar]

He did get a break for the internationals a couple of weeks back don't forget.

[Toadhall Saint]

3 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

It's been obvious to most for a couple of weeks or more and Blackmore asked Ralph point blank why he didn't give the lad a rest during the PC. Typically though Ralph can't see past his blinkers, the same blinkers that have kept Tella on the sidelines all season, McCarthy in goal for every match and Walcott in a starting XI.

Those same blinkers will see Livramento at LB on Saturday even though he had a mare last night. 

He has had a rest as pointed out by TWar.

[VectisSaint]

3 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

 

Those same blinkers will see Livramento at LB on Saturday even though he had a mare last night. 

Actually having him at LB as you suggest might be a good idea, because KWP is much better at RB that Tino currently is. The kid is undoubtedly a huge talent, but to play him at RB every game instead of KWP is really dumb. Playing KWP at LB is OK, but his attacking efforts are limited, compared to when he plays on the right. That said KWP made one or two glaring errors last night.

[Dman]

1 hour ago, Toadhall Saint said:

He has had a rest as pointed out by TWar.

Wasn’t that because he was ‘injured’? For me, his performances have dropped also since?

Naturally It’d have been very, very hard for him to maintain those levels we saw early season at his age.  
 

I think Duck is pretty much spot on in his assessment.  

[Toadhall Saint]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

Wasn’t that because he was ‘injured’? For me, his performances have dropped also since?

Naturally It’d have been very, very hard for him to maintain those levels we saw early season at his age.  
 

I think Duck is pretty much spot on in his assessment.  

Yep - though I think his positional awareness is lacking, 2nd goal of Leicester last night was a point of proof. Great a getting forward but he needs to learn a bit about defending.

[danjosaint]

Iirc his positioning for at least 3 goals lately has been awful , this could be perfect excuse to move him forward and put kwp where he belongs

Edited 2 December, 2021 by danjosaint

[M271]

Starting for England u21s tonight. On Sky now.

[SuperSAINT]

8 minutes ago, M271 said:

Starting for England u21s tonight. On Sky now.

 

[Saint Troy]

Right now I believe walker-peters is the better right back. Potential of Livra of course huge but somehow less worried about losing him that kids that have one through the academy. It’s not investing years to only see one year of a player, it’s great business to buy a player for 5m who is worth 35m two months later! Huge shame not to keep him but don’t have the few years before of excitement waiting for him to burst through
 

[egg]

Got caught in possession and done for pace for their goal, but two assists. If his cross for his second assist was intended for Gordon, it was a brilliant bit of vision and delivery. 

[Matthew Le God]

4 hours ago, egg said:

Got caught in possession and done for pace for their goal, but two assists. If his cross for his second assist was intended for Gordon, it was a brilliant bit of vision and delivery. 

Not really.

[saintscottofthenortham]

Looks like Tino may have done his knee in again during U21’s 0-3 win in Albania. Won’t go down well after this was said about his selection… 

theathletic.com/news/livramento-told-southampton-physios-he-was-joining-england-u21s-despite-concerns-over-fitness

Nasty landing during attempting tackle(03:26 on highlights), stops to hold it and promptly taken off. 

 

Edited 30 March, 2022 by saintscottofthenortham

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

Looks like Tino may have done his knee in again during U21’s 0-3 win in Albania. Won’t go down well after this was said about his selection… 

theathletic.com/news/livramento-told-southampton-physios-he-was-joining-england-u21s-despite-concerns-over-fitness

Nasty landing during attempting tackle(03:26 on highlights), stops to hold it and promptly taken off. 

 

That's annoying. Lucky it's late in the season and he can recover over the summer. If the club are looking to sell hope this doesn't hurt his value.

[Singapore Saint]

How's our boy doing, anyone know?

[S-Clarke]

7 hours ago, Singapore Saint said:

How's our boy doing, anyone know?

We'll probably know towards the end of this week, I guess they'd have to wait for any swelling to go down before they do any scans to get conclusive proof