Returning to St Marys

[Give it to Ron]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

I 100% guarantee you the vaccine has had all the necessary checks. It's been quicker as science moves based on funding and it is probably the most well funded short term scientific project of all time.

Also regarding things like fertility and long term effects, there are ways to test those things outside of giving them to people and seeing what happens. We have computational models to simulate these things, analogous vaccines (for which the mRNA vaccine was based and had been developed for decades), and gene profiling technology.

If the science wasn't up to the grade you can bet your life the scientific community wouldn't almost unanimously endorse it. I personally know people who work on the vaccine, some are proper anti government types, but they work as part of a team which it's works as part of a big set of teams. Thousands upon thousands of scientists who make virus and vaccine research their life work plus thousands of peer reviewers and no concerted case against them. I just don't buy that if there is actually any issues or potential issues.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1N2MF1OE

[Whitey Grandad]

34 minutes ago, simo said:

That's the thing they don't know if they are dangerous or not in the long term , The fact is that these vaccines have been rushed thru the usual process and not undergone the long term testing that most go thru . Generally a vaccine will take 10 to 12 years to perfect and test these have been done in a matter of months and there's no way of knowing if it will affect people's fertility for example for a while yet . Add the the fact that their licences have clauses added that prevent any come backs on the drugs companies should there be any lasting effects then that all points to why a lot of people including me aren't jumping at the chance to have a jab .

If it affected my fertility it would be a bloody miracle! Hopefully it might even replace those blue pills. What makes you think that it would make you infertile? Hundreds of millions of doses have been administered so far and if there were any serious side effects I'm sure some would have shown up by now.

I can understand a reluctance and uncertainty but why just not admit to being scared of it? You can always find a reason not to do anything if you don't want to.

[Give it to Ron]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

If it affected my fertility it would be a bloody miracle! Hopefully it might even replace those blue pills. What makes you think that it would make you infertile? Hundreds of millions of doses have been administered so far and if there were any serious side effects I'm sure some would have shown up by now.

I can understand a reluctance and uncertainty but why just not admit to being scared of it? You can always find a reason not to do anything if you don't want to.

It hasn’t impacted the fertility of the young ladies coming into the vaccine centre I volunteer at!!

[suewhistle]

8 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

It hasn’t impacted the fertility of the young ladies coming into the vaccine centre I volunteer at!!

'Ow would you know, Ron? ;-)

[Give it to Ron]

3 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

'Ow would you know, Ron? 😉

Going by the waddling and size of their bellies …

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Give it to Ron said:

Going by the waddling and size of their bellies …

But are the kids going to come out looking like Bill Gates or even worse...   Donald Trump!

[JRM]

5 hours ago, egg said:

He's right though, you are fucking irritating. 

Well that's not very nice now is it egg. I'd be lying if I said you hadn't hurt my feelings but on this occasion I'll let it slide. You have digested the government fear mongering and psychological damage will take a while to recover from. 

One day when  being asked to produce your papers you may pause for a moment and remember this thread. 

 

[JRM]

1 hour ago, Give it to Ron said:

It hasn’t impacted the fertility of the young ladies coming into the vaccine centre I volunteer at!!

If they're pregnant on the way in for the jab Ron and I think we can be fairly sure it's not related ! 

Has any testing been completed for the impact on fatility ? That seems to be one the unvaccinated are most concerned about. 

[BARCELONASAINT]

29 minutes ago, JRM said:

Well that's not very nice now is it egg. I'd be lying if I said you hadn't hurt my feelings but on this occasion I'll let it slide. You have digested the government fear mongering and psychological damage will take a while to recover from. 

One day when  being asked to produce your papers you may pause for a moment and remember this thread. 

 

You are aware that in many countries carrying your national ID card is a legal requirement.....it doesn't cause people a problem, just the criminals!

If you are driving in this country you are required by law to be in possession of your driving licence (your papers, again no issue for the law abiding and nothing to fear mob)

[Give it to Ron]

30 minutes ago, JRM said:

If they're pregnant on the way in for the jab Ron and I think we can be fairly sure it's not related ! 

Has any testing been completed for the impact on fatility ? That seems to be one the unvaccinated are most concerned about. 

Second jabs!! Some are more than 12 weeks apart 

Edited 27 July, 2021 by Give it to Ron

[Whitey Grandad]

36 minutes ago, JRM said:

If they're pregnant on the way in for the jab Ron and I think we can be fairly sure it's not related ! 

Has any testing been completed for the impact on fatility ? That seems to be one the unvaccinated are most concerned about. 

You do realise that when Ron says 'jabbed' he's not talking about a vaccination?

[Lighthouse]

47 minutes ago, JRM said:

Well that's not very nice now is it egg. I'd be lying if I said you hadn't hurt my feelings but on this occasion I'll let it slide. You have digested the government fear mongering and psychological damage will take a while to recover from. 

One day when  being asked to produce your papers you may pause for a moment and remember this thread. 

 

Supposing you were 19 and trying to get into a nightclub; the bouncer asks for i.d. Do you give it to him? Your name and date of birth is highly personal information, it applies only to you, so surely you can’t be happy being forced to disclose it in order to gain access to a business premises? Asking if you’re vaccinated is about the least personal question I can think of, all it does is narrow you down to someone within 90% of the adult population. It’s barely one step down from asking, ‘are you a homo sapien?’ In terms of how specific it is to you. 

[whelk]

Imagine if the vaccine did impact fertility and anti vaxxxers left to run the planet. They’ll all die of starvation as no brains to develop science.  Be like Mad Max

[whelk]

33 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Supposing you were 19 and trying to get into a nightclub; the bouncer asks for i.d. Do you give it to him? Your name and date of birth is highly personal information, it applies only to you, so surely you can’t be happy being forced to disclose it in order to gain access to a business premises? Asking if you’re vaccinated is about the least personal question I can think of, all it does is narrow you down to someone within 90% of the adult population. It’s barely one step down from asking, ‘are you a homo sapien?’ In terms of how specific it is to you. 

Yeah amazing how people think they are anonymous in society and affronted at thought of supplying an NI number

[egg]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

Well that's not very nice now is it egg. I'd be lying if I said you hadn't hurt my feelings but on this occasion I'll let it slide. You have digested the government fear mongering and psychological damage will take a while to recover from. 

One day when  being asked to produce your papers you may pause for a moment and remember this thread. 

 

Ha!! One man's fear mongering is another man's persuasion of the divs. 

You're doing well with this persona though mate, good work. 

[Ted Bates Statue]

23 minutes ago, whelk said:

They’ll all die of starvation as no brains to develop science.  Be like Mad Max

Behave. I'm told they are excellent at conducting research.

[East Kent Saint]

Rule 1 : Don’t feed the troll ! (No not “No Pooftas”)

[JRM]

Genuinely interested, my match day would involve travelling on public transport, going to a few pubs, ground, few more pubs, maybe a bite to eat somewhere. 

If the only place where passports are required is the football do you really think it will make much difference?

[waylander]

48 minutes ago, JRM said:

Genuinely interested, my match day would involve travelling on public transport, going to a few pubs, ground, few more pubs, maybe a bite to eat somewhere. 

If the only place where passports are required is the football do you really think it will make much difference?

It would to me because I would not be doing any of those things. Drive, park, walk to the ground, don't use the Gents, don't leave until the concourse clears. I cannot risk being surrounded by unvaccinated potential carriers who could infect me with a high viral load.

Edited 27 July, 2021 by waylander
typo

[ant]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

Genuinely interested, my match day would involve travelling on public transport, going to a few pubs, ground, few more pubs, maybe a bite to eat somewhere. 

If the only place where passports are required is the football do you really think it will make much difference?

The entire point of asking for proof of vaccination is reduction of common risk.

Proof of vaccination isn't a perfect method (and won't stop every case) - but it's a reasonable identifier to the club that you are less of a risk to those around you.

Your logic infers that unless Saints know what you get up to at every moment of every day, knowing your vaccination status is useless.

Well... no.

Being vaccinated (and the associated percentage decrease of transmission) is exactly why it's now more reasonable to go back to socialising.

If you and all those around you are vaccinated (on the train, in the pub, getting food), it means a significantly lower common risk once assembling within the stadium. Again, not a perfect method - but it represents playing the percentages where possible.

Might I also remind you that the original proposal was to more widely roll out proof of vaccination to other venues. It's this misguided outrage over supposed lack of freedoms that means that schemes like this are having to scrape through with the bare minimum measures, and no failing of the concept itself.

Edited 27 July, 2021 by ant

[Griffo]

On 27/07/2021 at 18:04, waylander said:

It would to me because I would not be doing any of those things. Drive, park, walk to the ground, don't use the Gents, don't leave until the concourse clears. I cannot risk being surrounded by unvaccinated potential carriers who could infect me with a high viral load.

How on earth did you survive before covid?

[Griffo]

Those of you backing covid passports, masks, restrictions etc, when does this end? Covid zero isn’t achievable, and most people are vaccinated - when does it end? Do we go down the Australia route and bring restrictions back every time there’s a case? Surely life has to return back to normal at some point. 
 

[23rdSaint]

14 minutes ago, Griffo said:

Those of you backing covid passports, masks, restrictions etc, when does this end? Covid zero isn’t achievable, and most people are vaccinated - when does it end? Do we go down the Australia route and bring restrictions back every time there’s a case? Surely life has to return back to normal at some point. 
 

Most under 30s are not vaccinated yet. 

[Lighthouse]

9 minutes ago, Griffo said:

Those of you backing covid passports, masks, restrictions etc, when does this end? Covid zero isn’t achievable, and most people are vaccinated - when does it end? Do we go down the Australia route and bring restrictions back every time there’s a case? Surely life has to return back to normal at some point. 
 

It ends when everyone is vaccinated. The virus needs a certain threshold of the population in order to sustain itself; a critical mass of people, if you like. Right now that mass is the 11% of people who refuse to get vaccinated. You are the minority of people keeping Covid 19 in circulation.

 

Polio wasn't eradicated because that vaccine was 100% effective. It was eradicated because everyone realised how privileged they were to have a vaccine, took it, and the small percentage who weren't protected didn't matter. The threshold needed to keep it in circulation wasn't met and it died out; in other words, herd immunity.

 

Basically it's up to you to answer your question. You can spend 10 minutes getting a free jab and we can end it completely in this country in 8 weeks, or you can not and we can keep arguing about masks, lockdowns and passports for the rest of our lives. 🤷‍♂️

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Griffo said:

Those of you backing covid passports, masks, restrictions etc, when does this end? Covid zero isn’t achievable, and most people are vaccinated - when does it end? Do we go down the Australia route and bring restrictions back every time there’s a case? Surely life has to return back to normal at some point. 
 

Seeing the wisdom in people being vaccinated, and the right of businesses to insist on its visitors being vaccinated and proving it, is not "backing" vaccine passports. 

I'm not sure how life isn't normal at the moment. I'm on holiday. Everywhere is open, and busy, people are wearing masks if they choose to but most aren't, kids are playing with random kids, it's normal. Next week I'll be back at work in an unmasked environment doing my job normally. 

I think the only "abnormal" thing I'm going to have to do anytime soon is show someone at St Mary's that I'm not a div and that I've had my vaccines. 

I'm not sure that we need to, or will do, anything other than boost the vaccines for as long as we have to. Apart from that, life goes on. 

[Griffo]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

Seeing the wisdom in people being vaccinated, and the right of businesses to insist on its visitors being vaccinated and proving it, is not "backing" vaccine passports. 

I'm not sure how life isn't normal at the moment. I'm on holiday. Everywhere is open, and busy, people are wearing masks if they choose to but most aren't, kids are playing with random kids, it's normal. Next week I'll be back at work in an unmasked environment doing my job normally. 

I think the only "abnormal" thing I'm going to have to do anytime soon is show someone at St Mary's that I'm not a div and that I've had my vaccines. 

I'm not sure that we need to, or will do, anything other than boost the vaccines for as long as we have to. Apart from that, life goes on. 

I can’t go to football, I can’t go to gigs, I can’t go to events, I can’t go abroad. I gave up a year and a half of my life on the premise that I was protecting the vulnerable, who have all been jabbed for a long long time. Life might be normal for those that like to potter around a garden centre or put some shelves up indoors.

It was 3 weeks to flatten the curve. It was to save NHS capacity. It was to get the most vulnerable jabbed. It’s now to get everyone jabbed. Normal life is always just one further and final stage away. 

[egg]

Just now, Griffo said:

I can’t go to football, I can’t go to gigs, I can’t go to events, I can’t go abroad. I gave up a year and a half of my life on the premise that I was protecting the vulnerable, who have all been jabbed for a long long time. Life might be normal for those that like to potter around a garden centre or put some shelves up indoors.

It was 3 weeks to flatten the curve. It was to save NHS capacity. It was to get the most vulnerable jabbed. It’s now to get everyone jabbed. Normal life is always just one further and final stage away. 

Why can't you?

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Griffo said:

I can’t go to football, I can’t go to gigs, I can’t go to events, I can’t go abroad.

Just get the jab then, its a sore arm for a couple of hours and I had a mild headache which went away when I slept. It really isn't a big deal.

[egg]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Just get the jab then, its a sore arm for a couple of hours and I had a mild headache which went away when I slept. It really isn't a big deal.

Oh, that's the reason. All the whining, I thought there was a proper reason, not a self inflicted one.

Zero sympathy.

[waylander]

On 28/07/2021 at 20:50, Griffo said:

How on earth did you survive before covid?

Immediately before Covid - much like you. I went to the Newcastle home game, had a couple of beers before the match and a curry afterwards - I want to go back to that. Further back before my current medication regime- well, a lot of antibiotics and a few stays in ICU; I don't want to go back to that!

 

When is it over? I guess when the number of positive cases/day is a few hundred nationwide. We were close to that before the delta variant. You are correct that zero cases is not achievable.

What is your objection to getting the vaccine since it stops you doing so many things you want to?

Edited 31 July, 2021 by waylander
typo

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Griffo said:

I can’t go to football, I can’t go to gigs, I can’t go to events, I can’t go abroad. I gave up a year and a half of my life on the premise that I was protecting the vulnerable, who have all been jabbed for a long long time. Life might be normal for those that like to potter around a garden centre or put some shelves up indoors.

It was 3 weeks to flatten the curve. It was to save NHS capacity. It was to get the most vulnerable jabbed. It’s now to get everyone jabbed. Normal life is always just one further and final stage away. 

No one is stopping you getting a jab.

[RedArmy]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

It ends when everyone is vaccinated. The virus needs a certain threshold of the population in order to sustain itself; a critical mass of people, if you like. Right now that mass is the 11% of people who refuse to get vaccinated. You are the minority of people keeping Covid 19 in circulation.

 

Polio wasn't eradicated because that vaccine was 100% effective. It was eradicated because everyone realised how privileged they were to have a vaccine, took it, and the small percentage who weren't protected didn't matter. The threshold needed to keep it in circulation wasn't met and it died out; in other words, herd immunity.

 

Basically it's up to you to answer your question. You can spend 10 minutes getting a free jab and we can end it completely in this country in 8 weeks, or you can not and we can keep arguing about masks, lockdowns and passports for the rest of our lives. 🤷‍♂️

Covid is not going to be eradicated what are you talking about? 

[JRM]

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2021-07-30/southampton-fc-supporter-guidance-for-safely-visiting-st-marys

 

Seems a fairly sensible laid back approach from the club for the friendly games, the games we could attend last season they said no bags allowed and food concessions were closed but looks like that is back to normal. 

[Noodles34]

People keep going on about polio and that affected you if you had it, obviously. But COVID adversely affects around 1%adversely so really don’t get the comparison. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Wonder if all the players are vaccinated, and if not, what the clubs position is regarding the ones that aren’t. 
 

 

[TWar]

16 hours ago, Noodles34 said:

People keep going on about polio and that affected you if you had it, obviously. But COVID adversely affects around 1%adversely so really don’t get the comparison. 

1% of people dying is still a big deal because of how infectious it is, also the COVID death rate in this country is higher than that. Pre-vaccine polio killed about up to 750 people a year from 7760 cases with a deathrate of about 10% (https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/polio).

COVID between March 2020 and today killed about 130,000 people from about 5.8 million cases (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/) in the UK. This is a deathrate of about 2%. The deathrate of COVID is less than 1/5th of Polio but polio killed in a year less than 1% of the people Covid does because it was less infectious. This is why discussing the death rate % rather than number who have actually died is stupid.

Edited 1 August, 2021 by TWar

[TWar]

23 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Wonder if all the players are vaccinated, and if not, what the clubs position is regarding the ones that aren’t. 
 

 

Yep, players and staff will be required to vaccinate too:

https://theathletic.com/2722921/2021/07/23/explained-the-premier-league-and-compulsory-covid-19-vaccinations/ (paid but better source)

https://www.goal.com/en/news/premier-league-footballers-will-need-to-have-covid-19/1sd0s4fb1m0zc10yhowqonebed (free but less well written)

[Whitey Grandad]

24 minutes ago, TWar said:

1% of people dying is still a big deal because of how infectious it is, also the COVID death rate in this country is higher than that. Pre-vaccine polio killed about up to 750 people a year from 7760 cases with a deathrate of about 10% (https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/polio).

COVID between March 2020 and today killed about 130,000 people from about 5.8 million cases (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/) in the UK. This is a deathrate of about 2%. The deathrate of COVID is less than 1/5th of Polio but polio killed in a year less than 1% of the people Covid does because it was less infectious. This is why discussing the death rate % rather than number who have actually died is stupid.

In my childhood during the 1950s it was quite common to see unfortunate children wearing leg irons and to hear of people being in an ‘iron lung’ was also common.

FD Roosevelt is a famous victim of the disease having contracted it in 1921.

[SaveloyMush]

On 31/07/2021 at 12:04, JRM said:

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2021-07-30/southampton-fc-supporter-guidance-for-safely-visiting-st-marys

 

Seems a fairly sensible laid back approach from the club for the friendly games, the games we could attend last season they said no bags allowed and food concessions were closed but looks like that is back to normal. 

"...any (supporters) who do not feel comfortable should not be attending."

How refreshingly adult.

[whelk]

Doubt I will bother with friendlies but looking at site is it just a fiver for a season ticket to women’s? I assume none of the games are at st Mary’s?