Returning to St Marys

[Lighthouse]

  On 26/07/2021 at 16:24, JRM said:

how you can allow yourself to become comfortable with government coercion to "encourage " people to take a medical injection in order to be allowed to live a free life

Expand  

Because I, or someone I care about, could be one of the people who is fully vaccinated but not protected by the vaccine. One of my loved ones could die because they’re stood next to someone like you at a football match, who made a ‘personal choice’ not to get vaccinated for no reason other than pure obstinance. Their health is more important to me than your so-called freedom.

  On 26/07/2021 at 16:24, JRM said:

simply exercising their right to free individual choice

Expand  

Yes, it’s a poor choice and poor choices have unfortunate consequences.

  On 26/07/2021 at 16:24, JRM said:

Where this will all end who knows, but the govt will not stop here that's for sure

Expand  

Paranoia. Meaningless conjecture based on nothing but crackpot theories on the internet. There is no ‘next step’ nor any slippery slope. Vaccines were developed decades ago for polio, smallpox, MMR etc. People took them and the disease was near enough wiped out, end of story.

[Saint86]

  On 26/07/2021 at 14:31, waylander said:

Unless you have a medical condition recognised by your GP there is no reason to not have the vaccine.

Expand  

Sigh.

Edited 26 July, 2021 by Saint86

[whelk]

  On 26/07/2021 at 15:34, JRM said:

They had a "Grab a Jab" event at the Guildhall couple of Saturdays ago, was surreal watching people acting like club reps to come on in for a jab, no appointment needed! As if it was a Club offering a free shot on a bar crawl. 

Expand  

Yeah baffled you did it?

[whelk]

  On 26/07/2021 at 15:41, Turkish said:

So anyone who doesn't want a vaccine is a racist, sexist, immigrant hating homophobe? No nothing bigoted about that. 

Expand  

Bet there is a correlation though. 

[RedArmy]

  On 26/07/2021 at 16:24, JRM said:

 

I may or may not have had the jab myself

Expand  

You’re a danger to society if you haven’t  

[JRM]

  On 26/07/2021 at 17:47, RedArmy said:

You’re a danger to society if you haven’t  

Expand  

Absolutely! The lowest of the low that must be eradicated one way or another. 

Just had a nap watching the Olympics and woke up in a cold sweat, what if I go to a game next week and discover I'm sat next to...oh its almost to awful to type........a child , a little disease carrying unvaccinated child. Hopefully there will be a masked steward nearby to help me move to a safer more covid secure area 

[JRM]

  On 26/07/2021 at 16:46, whelk said:

  On 26/07/2021 at 16:38, Lighthouse said:

Because I, or someone I care about, could be one of the people who is fully vaccinated but not protected by the vaccine. One of my loved ones could die because they’re stood next to someone like you at a football match, who made a ‘personal choice’ not to get vaccinated for no reason other than pure obstinance. Their health is more important to me than your so-called freedom.

Yes, it’s a poor choice and poor choices have unfortunate consequences.

Paranoia. Meaningless conjecture based on nothing but crackpot theories on the internet. There is no ‘next step’ nor any slippery slope. Vaccines were developed decades ago for polio, smallpox, MMR etc. People took them and the disease was near enough wiped out, end of story.

Expand  

 

Expand  

My word you love this don't you. We must clamp down on the enemy within, we cannot let them mix with us! If they refuse then the consequences will be all their fault! It's all their fault! They chose this punishment! Just listen to yourself and the direction you are going in. You can't wait to start reporting the unvaccinated for not wearing their identification label can you. Deary me. 

 

[JRM]

And once again we're not talking about vaccines. We're talking about vaccine passports. Permission to go about your day freely without prejudice. 

[whiteleySaint30]

  On 26/07/2021 at 18:24, JRM said:

My word you love this don't you. We must clamp down on the enemy within, we cannot let them mix with us! If they refuse then the consequences will be all their fault! It's all their fault! They chose this punishment! Just listen to yourself and the direction you are going in. You can't wait to start reporting the unvaccinated for not wearing their identification label can you. Deary me. 

 

Expand  

Lighthouse talks a lot of sense - you on the other hand - any reason you wouldn't have a vaccine or is simply for the sake of an argument and to flex your muscles.  

[John B]

  On 26/07/2021 at 14:12, JRM said:

Sad times. 

In the future we'll look back and explain to kids how their social credit scoring system and government monitoring began with abuse of powers in response to a bug. 

Stay Home > Protect Our NHS > Save Lives > Ban healthy people from taking part in normal life for not complying 

Expand  

The problem which you seem to have overlooked is that it is the healthy ones who have the virus are spreading it and in some cases killing people.

 

If you do not look after yourself there is a chance that you will get Covid and may be very ill and have after affects for sometime which will put a a burden on the NHS

 

Just think of others instead of your self

[whelk]

  On 26/07/2021 at 18:24, JRM said:

My word you love this don't you. We must clamp down on the enemy within, we cannot let them mix with us! If they refuse then the consequences will be all their fault! It's all their fault! They chose this punishment! Just listen to yourself and the direction you are going in. You can't wait to start reporting the unvaccinated for not wearing their identification label can you. Deary me. 

 

Expand  

I can’t even work out what you are quoting me on. TBH likes of you don’t bother me at all. Fact that you won’t be able to travel abroad and maybe go to football is no big deal. The benefits of the passports is they wind up the angry little types desperate for their ‘freedoms’. You can spend some of your increased spare time crayoning on to some A3 cardboard. “Bill Gates won’t take my boddy”

[suewhistle]

JRM sounds a bit like Sajid Javid - "mustn't cower in front of the virus..".  I've bought my season ticket, and with due precaution will be back. Maybe I'll regret it, but at least I won't have these regrets:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/26/covid-patients-tell-of-regrets-over-refusing-jab-vaccine-intensive-care

[JRM]

  On 26/07/2021 at 18:34, whiteleySaint30 said:

Lighthouse talks a lot of sense - you on the other hand - any reason you wouldn't have a vaccine or is simply for the sake of an argument and to flex your muscles.  

Expand  

Please explain what tests have been completed for long term effects of the vaccine? Truth is I don't know, but neither do any of you. The vaccine still has special emergency approval for use. 

You are asking youngsters to take a blind leap of faith for something they don't really need. But again it's not about the vaccine, it's the use of passports I object to. 

[JRM]

  On 26/07/2021 at 18:36, John B said:

The problem which you seem to have overlooked is that it is the healthy ones who have the virus are spreading it and in some cases killing people.

 

If you do not look after yourself there is a chance that you will get Covid and may be very ill and have after affects for sometime which will put a a burden on the NHS

 

Just think of others instead of your self

Expand  

How will you feel being sat next to a family with kids at a game? 

[Noodles34]

  On 26/07/2021 at 16:38, Lighthouse said:

Because I, or someone I care about, could be one of the people who is fully vaccinated but not protected by the vaccine. One of my loved ones could die because they’re stood next to someone like you at a football match, who made a ‘personal choice’ not to get vaccinated for no reason other than pure obstinance. Their health is more important to me than your so-called freedom.

Yes, it’s a poor choice and poor choices have unfortunate consequences.

Paranoia. Meaningless conjecture based on nothing but crackpot theories on the internet. There is no ‘next step’ nor any slippery slope. Vaccines were developed decades ago for polio, smallpox, MMR etc. People took them and the disease was near enough wiped out, end of story.

Expand  

but your relatives have had  the vaccine, so they won't die, right?

If that is still a risk, then best they stay at home, beside, vaccinated people can still pass it on to other vaccinated people.

So your point is a little lost really. 

[JRM]

Genuine question, will you be asking friends or family of their vaccination status before allowing them into your house? What about those with kids? 

[whelk]

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:32, JRM said:

Genuine question, will you be asking friends or family of their vaccination status before allowing them into your house? What about those with kids? 

Expand  

I don’t need to as none of my friends are conspiracy theory dipshits. I don’t know one person who has refused the vaccine. Only on here that I see these people do actually exist. And tbf they ain’t going to be my friends and not inviting them into my home.

[JRM]

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:05, suewhistle said:

JRM sounds a bit like Sajid Javid - "mustn't cower in front of the virus..".  I've bought my season ticket, and with due precaution will be back. Maybe I'll regret it, but at least I won't have these regrets:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/26/covid-patients-tell-of-regrets-over-refusing-jab-vaccine-intensive-care

Expand  

Sue let me reassure you, the government have spent billions on advertising raising fear and hysteria, it will take many years to recover from the psychological impact as a society but at football you will be outdoors , can wear a mask if you choose and your vaccine will do its job I'm sure. Enjoy yourself and allow football to be a brief escape from this madness. 

 

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:40, whelk said:

I don’t need to as none of my friends are conspiracy theory dipshits. I don’t know one person who has refused the vaccine. Only on here that I see these people do actually exist. And tbf they ain’t going to be my friends and not inviting them into my home.

Expand  

So you have asked them all? 

 

[Turkish]

  On 26/07/2021 at 16:47, whelk said:

Bet there is a correlation though. 

Expand  

Well I’m double jabbed and according to soggy I’m a racist, homophobic, transphobic, founder of the Tommy Robinson fan club so this brexiter says there isn’t 

[RedArmy]

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:40, whelk said:

I don’t need to as none of my friends are conspiracy theory dipshits. I don’t know one person who has refused the vaccine. Only on here that I see these people do actually exist. And tbf they ain’t going to be my friends and not inviting them into my home.

Expand  

Literally breaking friendships when you’re fully vaccinated. 

 

Reminds me of when people were terrified of going near someone with aids. 

[The Cat]

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:40, whelk said:

I don’t need to as none of my friends are conspiracy theory dipshits. I don’t know one person who has refused the vaccine. Only on here that I see these people do actually exist. And tbf they ain’t going to be my friends and not inviting them into my home.

Expand  

I know a couple of people who aren't having it, one of whom is a close friend. It came up in conversation once but since then we haven't discussed it because it's up to them if they take it and there's plenty of other stuff to talk about instead.

I'm certainly not going to fall out with someone because they haven't taken the vaccine, why would I want to throw years of friendship down the drain?

[RedArmy]

A question to that support vaccine passports.

Are you staying at home until they’re introduced, or are you out there mixing with the unvaccinated murderers?  

[whiteleySaint30]

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:32, JRM said:

Genuine question, will you be asking friends or family of their vaccination status before allowing them into your house? What about those with kids? 

Expand  

Yes

[egg]

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:45, JRM said:

Sue let me reassure you, the government have spent billions on advertising raising fear and hysteria, it will take many years to recover from the psychological impact as a society but at football you will be outdoors , can wear a mask if you choose and your vaccine will do its job I'm sure. Enjoy yourself and allow football to be a brief escape from this madness. 

Expand  

And why would they do that? What's in it for the government (s) to have a populous afraid to go about its business and keep the economy going? 

[JRM]

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:58, whiteleySaint30 said:

Yes

Expand  

So no children allowed to visit?

[JRM]

  On 26/07/2021 at 20:22, egg said:

And why would they do that? What's in it for the government (s) to have a populous afraid to go about its business and keep the economy going? 

Expand  

Write to your mp egg and ask these questions. More scrutiny is needed of these decisions and the people behind them hiding within SAGE 

[egg]

  On 26/07/2021 at 20:29, JRM said:

Write to your mp egg and ask these questions. More scrutiny is needed of these decisions and the people behind them hiding within SAGE 

Expand  

I'm asking you mate as you're the one making the point. I don't believe they have. 

I'll clarify the questions. If you're saying that the government have spent billions on advertising raising fear and hysteria, why do you say that the government have done that? What's in it for them to do that? 

[JRM]

“A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened. The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging.”

Susan Michie and Robert West, SPI-B (behavioural science subcommittee of SAGE)

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 26/07/2021 at 15:38, JRM said:

Is it anecdotal that they had to stop giving it to u40s as it wasn't safe?

Expand  

 

  On 26/07/2021 at 16:10, East Kent Saint said:

The youngsters are getting the Pfizer jab instead of the AZ 

Expand  

In Australia they are so desperate to get more vaccinated that they have changed advice and recommend Astra Zeneca for all adults.

https://bbcgossip.com/australia/all-adults-in-sydney-recommended-to-get-the-astrazeneca-vaccine/?amp=1

[whelk]

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:47, RedArmy said:

Literally breaking friendships when you’re fully vaccinated. 

 

Reminds me of when people were terrified of going near someone with aids. 

Expand  

‘Literally’ I know you get offended but you are incredibly thick

[whelk]

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:48, The Cat said:

I know a couple of people who aren't having it, one of whom is a close friend. It came up in conversation once but since then we haven't discussed it because it's up to them if they take it and there's plenty of other stuff to talk about instead.

I'm certainly not going to fall out with someone because they haven't taken the vaccine, why would I want to throw years of friendship down the drain?

Expand  

Who said anything about falling out. I don’t know anyone who is batshit to worry about the vaccine as some sort of sinister project.. My kids and all their friends too. And this will offend but it is directly linked to education

[whelk]

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:45, Turkish said:

Well I’m double jabbed and according to soggy I’m a racist, homophobic, transphobic, founder of the Tommy Robinson fan club so this brexiter says there isn’t 

Expand  

All doctors are rich does not mean all rich people are doctors 

[JRM]

  On 26/07/2021 at 20:55, whelk said:

Who said anything about falling out. I don’t know anyone who is batshit to worry about the vaccine as some sort of sinister project.. My kids and all their friends too. And this will offend but it is directly linked to education

Expand  

You and your kids sound great Whelk. 

My young ones want to have some friends round and I'm a bit worried about what covid protocols I should have in place,  have told them I'll just  check with Whelk on Saintsweb to see how it's done, can you help? 

[eurosaint]

I travelled extensively in the 70s & 80s, carried inoculation documents for yellow fever, typhus, malaria and other diseases. I have also lived in other countries (Germany & Belgium) where they had mandatory ID cards and never once felt that my 'freedom' was compromised !

Given that the overwhelming statistics show that the vaccines are working, I just cannot fathom the logic of those who maintain the they are 'threatened' because they may have to declare that they have been vaccinated !

It's not a big deal, it's not an affront to civil liberty, it's purely helping your fellow man to survive....

I've yet to hear a rational, intelligent explanation for why someone doesn't get jabbed but I'll keep on reading, just in case... 

 

[whelk]

  On 26/07/2021 at 21:17, JRM said:

You and your kids sound great Whelk. 

My young ones want to have some friends round and I'm a bit worried about what covid protocols I should have in place,  have told them I'll just  check with Whelk on Saintsweb to see how it's done, can you help? 

Expand  

Not really mate. I have avoided Covid, never miss a days work, missus is same. Generally strong stock. 
Vaccine was not even noticed. So basically I don’t naturally worry about my health or catching it. Although bright enough to not be scared of being vaccinated and understand the importance of it to those not blessed with my family’s good health.

Maybe spray a bit of Glade when they come round woudl be my advice.

Edited 26 July, 2021 by whelk

[Lighthouse]

  On 26/07/2021 at 20:42, JRM said:

“A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened. The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging.”

Susan Michie and Robert West, SPI-B (behavioural science subcommittee of SAGE)

Expand  

She clearly has a point. When people like you sincerely believe it’s, "a vaccine I don’t need for a virus I’m not going to die from," there is clearly far too much complacency and misinformation out there. 

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:49, RedArmy said:

A question to that support vaccine passports.

Are you staying at home until they’re introduced, or are you out there mixing with the unvaccinated murderers?  

Expand  

No, because unlike anti-vaxxers we don’t have any choice in the matter. We’ve done our bit, if a small percentage refuse to get vaccinated, ever, our only alternative is to stay in our homes for the rest of our lives, over an issue we have no influence on.

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:22, JRM said:

Please explain what tests have been completed for long term effects of the vaccine? Truth is I don't know, but neither do any of you. The vaccine still has special emergency approval for use. 

You are asking youngsters to take a blind leap of faith for something they don't really need. But again it's not about the vaccine, it's the use of passports I object to. 

Expand  

There’s no credible hypothesis for long term health problems. Contrary to some of the conspiracies, the vaccine doesn’t alter your DNA, you aren’t going to sprout an extra b*llock in 15 years.

  On 26/07/2021 at 18:24, JRM said:

My word you love this don't you. We must clamp down on the enemy within, we cannot let them mix with us! If they refuse then the consequences will be all their fault! It's all their fault! They chose this punishment! Just listen to yourself and the direction you are going in. You can't wait to start reporting the unvaccinated for not wearing their identification label can you. Deary me. 

 

Expand  

A hysterical straw-man, I can’t help you there.

[JRM]

  On 26/07/2021 at 21:56, whelk said:

Not really mate. I have avoided Covid, never miss a days work, missus is same. Generally strong stock. 
Vaccine was not even noticed. So basically I don’t naturally worry about my health or catching it. Although bright enough to not be scared of being vaccinated and understand the importance of it to those not blessed with my family’s good health.

Maybe spray a bit of Glade when they come round woudl be my advice.

Expand  

Thanks mate, done a bit of research myself, I've printed off some HANDS FACE SPACE posters, will sanitise hands on entrance with a temp check and ensure they remain 2 metres apart from each other at all times with a one way system to get to the bathroom just to ensure we all stay safe. 

[whelk]

  On 26/07/2021 at 22:13, JRM said:

Thanks mate, done a bit of research myself, I've printed off some HANDS FACE SPACE posters, will sanitise hands on entrance with a temp check and ensure they remain 2 metres apart from each other at all times with a one way system to get to the bathroom just to ensure we all stay safe. 

Expand  

Seems like you have it sorted. Sanitiser isn’t really effective though. 

[Spitz]

Meanwhile, in other news, memberships are again available and in two flavours, ‘lite’ and ‘premium’.

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2021-07-26/southampton-fc-202122-memberships-now-on-sale
 

 

 

[Charlie Wayman]

  On 26/07/2021 at 21:17, JRM said:

You and your kids sound great Whelk. 

My young ones want to have some friends round and I'm a bit worried about what covid protocols I should have in place,  have told them I'll just  check with Whelk on Saintsweb to see how it's done, can you help? 

Expand  

Please stop posting for a few weeks young man, you are getting on my nerves with your unfounded monotonous conspiracy theory nonsense.

Either that or I will reluctantly place you on ignore. Being a boorish smart-arse really isn't all that attractive as a personal attribute.

Edited 27 July, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[saint1977]

Piers Corbyn, David Icke, Andrew Wakefield and QAnon/Trump - those are some of the sources for the Anti Vaxxer movement.

Just a hint of the proof that the MMR jab data linked to autism was highly flawed and in the words of the BMJ fraudulent https://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452 yet Wakefield is front and centre again, especially in the US 

Look at the weirdos in the movement, probably the same boneheads who were attacking 5G masts last year https://news.sky.com/story/how-covid-conspiracists-and-anti-vaxxers-are-getting-organised-and-making-money-12206707

Edited 27 July, 2021 by saint1977

[Saint86]

  On 26/07/2021 at 18:24, JRM said:

My word you love this don't you. We must clamp down on the enemy within, we cannot let them mix with us! If they refuse then the consequences will be all their fault! It's all their fault! They chose this punishment! Just listen to yourself and the direction you are going in. You can't wait to start reporting the unvaccinated for not wearing their identification label can you. Deary me. 

 

Expand  

They're a forum moderator. They live for stuff like this 😆

Edited 27 July, 2021 by Saint86

[TWar]

  On 27/07/2021 at 08:11, saint1977 said:

Piers Corbyn, David Icke, Andrew Wakefield and QAnon/Trump - those are some of the sources for the Anti Vaxxer movement.

Just a hint of the proof that the MMR jab data linked to autism was highly flawed and in the words of the BMJ fraudulent https://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452 yet Wakefield is front and centre again, especially in the US 

Look at the weirdos in the movement, probably the same boneheads who were attacking 5G masts last year https://news.sky.com/story/how-covid-conspiracists-and-anti-vaxxers-are-getting-organised-and-making-money-12206707

Expand  

Wakefield should be in prison. What he did was tantamount to child abuse, the experiments he did on autistic children. At the very least he should be in public exile for deliberately lying about science that killed potentially thousands of innocent children with impressionable parents. Also the mainstream media has blood on it's hands with its deliberate decision not to fact check an otherwise sensational story.

For those who don't know, Andrew Wakefield patented individual jabs for measles, mumps and rubella, and then wrote a deeply fraudulent paper discrediting the combined jab by linking it to autism to push people towards his product. In science he is sort of like a horror story they tell all new scientists in your first "ethics in research" mandatory seminar (probably mandatory because of that prick). If you ever hear someone mention autism with reference to vaccines it's because of this fuck and his "autistic enterocolitis" bullshit. The paper was retracted by half the authors after letting the world know about Wakefields fraud and he's not a doctor anymore but that's not far enough for me for his fraud. There is a great book on it by Brian Deer called "The doctor who fooled the world" and a great video about the whole thing here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BIcAZxFfrc. It's quite long and a bit silly at times, but it's pretty amusing and well made.

 

Edited 27 July, 2021 by TWar

[JRM]

  On 27/07/2021 at 08:08, Charlie Wayman said:

Please stop posting for a few weeks young man, you are getting on my nerves with your unfounded monotonous conspiracy theory nonsense.

Either that or I will reluctantly place you on ignore. Being a boorish smart-arse really isn't all that attractive as a personal attribute.

Expand  

Hi Charlie 👋

Got your tickets for the friendlies next week? 

I'm sorry somebody questioning the governments motives with the implementation of vaccine passports makes you feel uncomfortable, it might be a side effect of the vaccine, go for it with the ignore button 👍

[egg]

  On 27/07/2021 at 09:10, JRM said:

Hi Charlie 👋

Got your tickets for the friendlies next week? 

I'm sorry somebody questioning the governments motives with the implementation of vaccine passports makes you feel uncomfortable, it might be a side effect of the vaccine, go for it with the ignore button 👍

Expand  

He's right though, you are fucking irritating. 

[suewhistle]

  On 26/07/2021 at 19:45, JRM said:

Sue let me reassure you, the government have spent billions on advertising raising fear and hysteria,

 

Expand  

 

Your analysis on this matter is so far off the mark it's a bit worrying. Now if you said they were scaremongering about immigrants or 'benefit scroungers' you might be more accurate, and if you had pointed out how our PM was ignoring parliament I'd have agreed.

But are you really saying that a government that has all along been blase', playing catch up, reluctant to act, with a PM who didn't go to the first 5 Cobra meetings, who went around shaking hands and making glib statements, has done many u-turns, has overseen a generally incompetent response, is trying to raise fear and hysteria?? The government who had to be dragged kicking and screaming into action by Sage?

Let me give you a personal illustration.. Yesterday I took aged parent to an eye clinic. The records showed that the last check was back on March 17th last year which reminded me that we drove back past a local pub which was advertising a St. Patrick's night event. I play a bit of Irish music and normally I'd go but commented "I shan't be going to that!". I sometimes read the foreign press so had seen the progress of the virus elsewhere and the measures they had put in place. Similarly I did a bit of online language teaching for a student in the EU so had another source of information. I knew we'd have to lock down and that we'd left it late.

The response in the UK was lackadaisical in comparison and playing the whole thing down. Plenty of PPE said Matt Hancock in recorded public statements, but then of course they saw the opportunities for their mates and took action, using the virus as an excuse to get around  usual procurement procedures, and overpaying.  

So I really think you should look more widely before expressing your opinions and perhaps change your target.  I've found the Private Eye medic give a very useful two page commentary in every issue, and he has been very open about where he has had to change his mind on aspects of the situation.

In the meantime I hope to go to St. Mary's and my training for the new season starts tonight amongst an age group who are showing the highest rates at the moment. No hysteria from me, but maybe a bit of exercise would do you good too.

 

 

 

[TWar]

  On 27/07/2021 at 09:41, suewhistle said:

 

Your analysis on this matter is so far off the mark it's a bit worrying. Now if you said they were scaremongering about immigrants or 'benefit scroungers' you might be more accurate, and if you had pointed out how our PM was ignoring parliament I'd have agreed.

But are you really saying that a government that has all along been blase', playing catch up, reluctant to act, with a PM who didn't go to the first 5 Cobra meetings, who went around shaking hands and making glib statements, has done many u-turns, has overseen a generally incompetent response, is trying to raise fear and hysteria?? The government who had to be dragged kicking and screaming into action by Sage?

Let me give you a personal illustration.. Yesterday I took aged parent to an eye clinic. The records showed that the last check was back on March 17th last year which reminded me that we drove back past a local pub which was advertising a St. Patrick's night event. I play a bit of Irish music and normally I'd go but commented "I shan't be going to that!". I sometimes read the foreign press so had seen the progress of the virus elsewhere and the measures they had put in place. Similarly I did a bit of online language teaching for a student in the EU so had another source of information. I knew we'd have to lock down and that we'd left it late.

The response in the UK was lackadaisical in comparison and playing the whole thing down. Plenty of PPE said Matt Hancock in recorded public statements, but then of course they saw the opportunities for their mates and took action, using the virus as an excuse to get around  usual procurement procedures, and overpaying.  

So I really think you should look more widely before expressing your opinions and perhaps change your target.  I've found the Private Eye medic give a very useful two page commentary in every issue, and he has been very open about where he has had to change his mind on aspects of the situation.

In the meantime I hope to go to St. Mary's and my training for the new season starts tonight amongst an age group who are showing the highest rates at the moment. No hysteria from me, but maybe a bit of exercise would do you good too.

 

 

 

Expand  

Some excellent points. Anyone who thinks a conservative government would purposefully harm the economy by locking down unnecessarily or would hoard jabs for the UK when they know them to be dangerous needs to give their head a wobble. It's like flat earth or any other conspiracy, the first question has to be "but what's in it for them?" 

Edited 27 July, 2021 by TWar

[simo]

  On 27/07/2021 at 11:03, TWar said:

Some excellent points. Anyone who thinks a conservative government would purposefully harm the economy by locking down unnecessarily or would hoard jabs for the UK when they know them to be dangerous needs to give their head a wobble. It's like flat earth or any other conspiracy, the first question has to be "but what's in it for them?" 

Expand  

That's the thing they don't know if they are dangerous or not in the long term , The fact is that these vaccines have been rushed thru the usual process and not undergone the long term testing that most go thru . Generally a vaccine will take 10 to 12 years to perfect and test these have been done in a matter of months and there's no way of knowing if it will affect people's fertility for example for a while yet . Add the the fact that their licences have clauses added that prevent any come backs on the drugs companies should there be any lasting effects then that all points to why a lot of people including me aren't jumping at the chance to have a jab .

[Give it to Ron]

  On 27/07/2021 at 12:15, simo said:

That's the thing they don't know if they are dangerous or not in the long term , The fact is that these vaccines have been rushed thru the usual process and not undergone the long term testing that most go thru . Generally a vaccine will take 10 to 12 years to perfect and test these have been done in a matter of months and there's no way of knowing if it will affect people's fertility for example for a while yet . Add the the fact that their licences have clauses added that prevent any come backs on the drugs companies should there be any lasting effects then that all points to why a lot of people including me aren't jumping at the chance to have a jab .

Expand  

That’s the thing you are using to not have it though when really your scared of having it!

Its been tested thoroughly- labs across the globe came together and helped get the red tape sorted .

I don’t care if it affects my fertility at 62 it’s nothing to concern me but catching it is and you should be - I have seen first hand what it does to fit healthy 26 year olds.

it’s your choice but don’t hide behind the bollox of not tested when it clearly has been.

[TWar]

  On 27/07/2021 at 12:15, simo said:

That's the thing they don't know if they are dangerous or not in the long term , The fact is that these vaccines have been rushed thru the usual process and not undergone the long term testing that most go thru . Generally a vaccine will take 10 to 12 years to perfect and test these have been done in a matter of months and there's no way of knowing if it will affect people's fertility for example for a while yet . Add the the fact that their licences have clauses added that prevent any come backs on the drugs companies should there be any lasting effects then that all points to why a lot of people including me aren't jumping at the chance to have a jab .

Expand  

I 100% guarantee you the vaccine has had all the necessary checks. It's been quicker as science moves based on funding and it is probably the most well funded short term scientific project of all time.

Also regarding things like fertility and long term effects, there are ways to test those things outside of giving them to people and seeing what happens. We have computational models to simulate these things, analogous vaccines (for which the mRNA vaccine was based and had been developed for decades), and gene profiling technology.

If the science wasn't up to the grade you can bet your life the scientific community wouldn't almost unanimously endorse it. I personally know people who work on the vaccine, some are proper anti government types, but they work as part of a team which it's works as part of a big set of teams. Thousands upon thousands of scientists who make virus and vaccine research their life work plus thousands of peer reviewers and no concerted case against them. I just don't buy that if there is actually any issues or potential issues.