Returning to St Marys

[warwicksaint]

Now that restrictions are being lifted and full stadiums are expected to be allowed for the start of next season I was wondering whether people expect stadiums to be full across the country or below pre COVID levels?
 

I’m sure there will be a much younger age group - I know plenty of older people who are sh*t scared of a catching COVID. 
 

Would you all go back to St Mary’s with no worries?

[Whitey Grandad]

9 minutes ago, warwicksaint said:

Now that restrictions are being lifted and full stadiums are expected to be allowed for the start of next season I was wondering whether people expect stadiums to be full across the country or below pre COVID levels?
 

I’m sure there will be a much younger age group - I know plenty of older people who are sh*t scared of a catching COVID. 
 

Would you all go back to St Mary’s with no worries?

I’ll be there. That’s if I remember today for my season tickets before Monday.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I would hope to be there, but I’m expecting Sky etc to mess with the scheduling once again meaning I can’t get to games. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some continue to wear face masks until it’s clear the virus has been eradicated from society completely and frankly I wouldn’t blame them.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

9 hours ago, warwicksaint said:

Now that restrictions are being lifted and full stadiums are expected to be allowed for the start of next season I was wondering whether people expect stadiums to be full across the country or below pre COVID levels?
 

I’m sure there will be a much younger age group - I know plenty of older people who are sh*t scared of a catching COVID. 
 

Would you all go back to St Mary’s with no worries?

I'd expect so.  I really don't see why it would be such an ask for everyone to be asked to take a lateral flow test before hand, not much of an inconvenience and then you don't have to worry too much once everyone's in there.

[kwsaint]

Would feel OK in the stands, but the close confines of the concourse would be a concern.  More than likely would put a mask on going in to the stadium, get through the concourse as quickly as possible (no pre-match cup of tea) and then take it off once in a seat.

Not being an SNP fan, but Nicola Sturgeon has judged the situation much better than Boris and his chums (again).  My personal view would be to open stadiums to full capacity, but keep concessions in the stadium closed to keep concourse clear - and to make mask wearing compulsory going in and then removed in the stands (which is what I plan to do).  It's having lots of people in a confined indoor space that is the problem.  Outside is fine as you get such a low viral load even if you come into contact with someone with Covid.

Doubtless some would disagree with the above

[SaintBobby]

I'm relaxed about the whole thing now. The vaccination roll out places the risk for most of us on a level below flu. It will continue to kill people every year - I think flu often leads to 20,000 deaths in a year - but it's now an unplesant controlled disease rather than rippign through society unchecked. That's enough for me to want to return to normal.

[itchen]

Unless the situation changes drastically (for example, a variant resistant to the vaccine) I'll be there.

[nta786]

13 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

I'd expect so.  I really don't see why it would be such an ask for everyone to be asked to take a lateral flow test before hand, not much of an inconvenience and then you don't have to worry too much once everyone's in there.

As it was at the Euros, you didn't even need to take a test, but simply report a negative result online using the QR code.

So reality is it is impossible to monitor who has Covid and who doesn't because of a flaw in the system.

[Charlie Wayman]

9 hours ago, warwicksaint said:

Now that restrictions are being lifted and full stadiums are expected to be allowed for the start of next season I was wondering whether people expect stadiums to be full across the country or below pre COVID levels?
 

I’m sure there will be a much younger age group - I know plenty of older people who are sh*t scared of a catching COVID. 
 

Would you all go back to St Mary’s with no worries?

Fact is even the best vaccines are at most 95% effective with the delta variant. An awful lot of people who have been fully vaccinated will not be protected; the problem is that you never know if you are one of the 5 odd %.

The over 65's are most at risk as we know, a group that makes up a goodly proportion of the Saints crowd. Many of that group - me included - will not be willing to take the risk especially when the doors first open. Two or three years down the line if we ever achieve something akin to herd immunity people maybe will have more confidence. Of course they will be three years older so even more vulnerable. I can forsee that quite a few very loyal fans may never want to return.

If the doors are flung open for a full house in August the club might be lucky to get more than 20/25k through the doors. If re-opening leads to a surge of infections locally crowds will dwindle quite quickly.

[RedArmy]

8 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I wouldn’t be surprised to see some continue to wear face masks until it’s clear the virus has been eradicated from society completely and frankly I wouldn’t blame them.

Spoiler alert.

 

It’s not going to be. 

[Saint_lambden]

8 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I would hope to be there, but I’m expecting Sky etc to mess with the scheduling once again meaning I can’t get to games. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some continue to wear face masks until it’s clear the virus has been eradicated from society completely and frankly I wouldn’t blame them.

Which is never. 

[warwicksaint]

8 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I would hope to be there, but I’m expecting Sky etc to mess with the scheduling once again meaning I can’t get to games. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some continue to wear face masks until it’s clear the virus has been eradicated from society completely and frankly I wouldn’t blame them.

This is my worry - I can’t see it ever being completely wiped from society, it’ll become a bad version of the flu and is something we’ll just have to live with. I wouldn’t blame vulnerable people for not attending games straight away, but as the cases decrease due to herd immunity and everyone having antibodies, those people are going to have to take a risk at some point. Either that or live a very boring life forever 

[suewhistle]

10 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I’ll be there. That’s if I remember today for my season tickets before Monday.

I think balance of payment is needed by tomorrow.

I've just paid for mine and circumstances permitting I'll be going. Our concourses are pretty well ventilated anyway, compared with crowded pubs and I'll probably wear a mask like @kwsaint. I haven't yet addressed the issue of the pre-match meet up and pint as my friends are even more decrepit than I am. Just hope the fitness from being probably the only pensioner playing in the Hampshire County Women's League gives me some measure of protection!

 

[waylander]

The queue for the Gents at halftime would worry me.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Not sure if I missed this, but away fans are allowed back in as well?

[St Louis]

13 hours ago, warwicksaint said:

I’m sure there will be a much younger age group - I know plenty of older people who are sh*t scared of a catching COVID. 

I'm not so sure it will be the younger age groups for the earlier games, as I believe proof of double vaccination is going to be needed, is that right and confirmed?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2021/07/13/covid-passports-masks-required-sporting-events-england-july/

[Saint Fan CaM]

7 hours ago, warwicksaint said:

This is my worry - I can’t see it ever being completely wiped from society, it’ll become a bad version of the flu and is something we’ll just have to live with. I wouldn’t blame vulnerable people for not attending games straight away, but as the cases decrease due to herd immunity and everyone having antibodies, those people are going to have to take a risk at some point. Either that or live a very boring life forever 

Interesting comparison to the flu - there was a huge decrease in flu cases this last winter...why?  Unsurprisingly because people were wearing masks, so it does appear to make huge sense to the over 60's (like me) to continue wearing a mask in high risk areas at the very least. 

[warwicksaint]

3 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Interesting comparison to the flu - there was a huge decrease in flu cases this last winter...why?  Unsurprisingly because people were wearing masks, so it does appear to make huge sense to the over 60's (like me) to continue wearing a mask in high risk areas at the very least. 

Think it was more down to the fact everyone was in lockdown and not seeing each other rather than masks

[SaintBobby]

On 14/07/2021 at 17:23, warwicksaint said:

Think it was more down to the fact everyone was in lockdown and not seeing each other rather than masks

That's probably right. If we impose a lockdown from mid-December to mid-February every year and basically make it illegal to leave your home, we can almost certainly reduce flu deaths dramatically. 

Masks probably have an impact too. But not much of an impact.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

That's probably right. If we impose a lockdown from mid-December to mid-February every year and basically make it illegal to leave your home, we can almost certainly reduce flu deaths dramatically. 

Masks probably have an impact too. But not much of an impact.

I agree. There are other factors too. Not having to wake up to an alarm and leaving your house for a commute reduces the chances of getting ill. A good sleep works wonders for the immune system.

[Whitey Grandad]

On 14/07/2021 at 10:16, waylander said:

The queue for the Gents at halftime would worry me.

But would Sue be bothered?

There’s a simple answer. Stop the sales of beer on the concourses. Easy for me to say because I don’t imbibe.

[waylander]

34 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

But would Sue be bothered?

There’s a simple answer. Stop the sales of beer on the concourses. Easy for me to say because I don’t imbibe.

The queue for the ladies is equally hazardous.

I don't drink the beer they sell in the concourse. There is much superior fare to be had elsewhere., but the products of it still need to be voided.

[beatlesaint]

Going to have to provide proof that you are fully vaccinated come the end of September as per BBC News -

And from the end of September, the government plans to make full vaccination a condition of entry to large venues which have crowds

[waylander]

23 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Going to have to provide proof that you are fully vaccinated come the end of September as per BBC News -

And from the end of September, the government plans to make full vaccination a condition of entry to large venues which have crowds

Assuming it passes the vote in the Commons - which is not certain.

It is very easy to get your proof of vaccination cert.

 

[TWar]

25 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Going to have to provide proof that you are fully vaccinated come the end of September as per BBC News -

And from the end of September, the government plans to make full vaccination a condition of entry to large venues which have crowds

Good news that. Hope proving full vacc will be easy as I imagine a lot of establishments will have this rule. Also hope if you are immunocompromised and can't be vaxed then there will be fairly simple provisions. 

[Saint_lambden]

11 minutes ago, TWar said:

Good news that. Hope proving full vacc will be easy as I imagine a lot of establishments will have this rule. Also hope if you are immunocompromised and can't be vaxed then there will be fairly simple provisions. 

There won't be, that's why there's so much outcry about it. 

Labour and the Lib Dems plan to vote against the proposal as it currently stands and there will be plenty enough of the old guard Tories who do too, so it's very unlikely to pass a commons vote in it's current form and be made in to law. 

[TWar]

16 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

There won't be, that's why there's so much outcry about it. 

Labour and the Lib Dems plan to vote against the proposal as it currently stands and there will be plenty enough of the old guard Tories who do too, so it's very unlikely to pass a commons vote in it's current form and be made in to law. 

That sucks. It also sucks that the idea of ensuring people who choose to endanger others by not getting the jab have to isolate from the rest of the sensible world is a good one and this will probably be the last time it is raised and will be dropped because it isn't properly fleshed out.

[AlexLaw76]

8 minutes ago, TWar said:

That sucks. It also sucks that the idea of ensuring people who choose to endanger others by not getting the jab have to isolate from the rest of the sensible world is a good one and this will probably be the last time it is raised and will be dropped because it isn't properly fleshed out.

"sucks".  If you had the vaccine, who cares, right?  They do work you know!

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

"sucks".  If you had the vaccine, who cares, right?  They do work you know!

If the vaccine has anything other than 0% or 100% efficacy then the number of people who have it effects every person, this is virology 101. Here is a comment where I break down the reasoning for this in another thread:

---

Getting the vaccine lowers your chances of catching COVID by approximately 91%. It also lessens symptoms considerably, but that isn't the reason for why the club insist on being vaccinated. It is definitely false to say it doesn't lower chances of getting it.

Sources:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/getting-a-pfizer-or-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-can-drop-your-risk-for-infection-by-91
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/226413/almost-double-vaccinated-people-england-have/

The reason for insisting on vaccines can be seen through simple decision mathematics:

- Imagine a vaccine source S and two people labelled X and Y wherein X is the "passer" and Y is the receiver.
- Imagine the vaccine is 90% effective.
Consider three cases
- First, if neither X or Y is vaccinated then there is a 100% of the virus being passed from S to X to Y.
- Second, if Y is and X isn't there is a 10% chance of the virus going from S to X to Y.
- Third, If both X and Y are vaccinated then there is a 1% chance of S to X to Y (10% of 10%).

Therefore X not being vaccinated directly effects the health of Y even if Y is vaccinated, any more risk they take on is compounded to everyone else in the network.

In actuality it is a big web of passers and receivers and compound probability is what keeps us safe. This is why, mathematically, insisting on vaccination before gathering is essential, because the vaccine massively reduces risk but it isn't perfect so you need to reduce the transmissibility between nodes. Apologies for nerding out on this one a bit, it's a bit closer to what I do for a living

---

TLDR: If the vaccine has an X% chance of not stopping the virus then the chances of it making it through two jumps is an X% of X% chance, which is significantly smaller. Therefore reducing every given jump reduces everyone's chances, it's a simple decision maths problem!

Also some people can't get the vaccine and rely on others to have it so they don't catch the virus off them, but empathising with the vulnerable is hard for some so I don't tend to lead with this argument.

Edited 22 July, 2021 by TWar

[the saint in winchester]

Better to be safe than sorry, is my thinking. But if we're playing scintillating football that has to be witnessed, then I'll get a hazmat suit and mask to attend.

[The Cat]

Maybe they mooting this policy to try and persuade more of the younger age groups to get vaccinated because the take up has dwindled.

Festivals seem to be going with the policy that you are either vaccinated or have a negative test means those who haven't had a vaccine can still attend as long as they haven't had a dodgy false positive result!

[whiteleySaint30]

1 hour ago, beatlesaint said:

Going to have to provide proof that you are fully vaccinated come the end of September as per BBC News -

And from the end of September, the government plans to make full vaccination a condition of entry to large venues which have crowds

Seems mad to me - surely providing a negative test is more important 🤔 100 people going to St Mary's(all they need to prove is they are double jabbed) who have covid will still make covid spread like wild fire.......... and yes, I know people who have been double jabbed yet have still been pretty ill with covid.

[beatlesaint]

55 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

Better to be safe than sorry, is my thinking. But if we're playing scintillating football that has to be witnessed, then I'll get a hazmat suit and mask to attend.

Keep your money for that suit in your wallet then 🤣

[Give it to Ron]

Full house for Charity Shield at Wembley 

[Saint Garrett]

58 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Full house for Charity Shield at Wembley 

Wouldn't be anything else would it? Aren't we back to full capacities by default now?

[JRM]

We should be, but clubs seem to be holding back, no details yet regarding Everton away, many fans i know have already booked travel arrangements to get the best deal so hopefully we'll get a proper allocation of tickets. 

[waylander]

Not a word about memberships

[Whitey Grandad]

Season tickets will be sent out dometime in August and will be the usual smart card. I don't know about memberships. The Times on Wednesday said that the Premier League is discussing whether there wil be any need for any sort of 'Covid passport'.

Plans for compulsory Covid passports for fans

The Premier League is in talks with clubs over the introduction of compulsory Covid passports for fans from the start of the season — even if it is not required by the government.

Rules for supporters to show proof of a double vaccination or a negative lateral flow test to get into sporting events are not expected before the autumn but the league has proposed “going early” with its own policy, to counter any threat of cuts in crowd capacity.

Some clubs had discussed introducing their own Covid passport schemes for the new season, which starts on August 13, but Premier League chiefs are understood to have decided that it would be better if all 20 clubs had the same policy.

 

 

The government’s rules for the Covid certification policy are expected to cover only sports events with a capacity of more than 20,000. That would mean Brentford, newly promoted to the top flight, would not be covered by those regulations but the club would have to follow the Premier League policy.

Ministers plan to make proof of double jabs or a negative test compulsory for nightclubs and other “crowded venues” — though not pubs — from the end of September. The rules for sporting events may come later in the autumn, though some may follow the Premier League’s idea and introduce passport requirements earlier. Anyone not vaccinated must show proof of a negative test — as was required at Euro 2020 matches at Wembley.

 

The 20 top-flight clubs lost more than £1 billion combined from missing out on match-day income last season, with some losing as much as £5 million per game.

A senior executive at one Premier League club told The Times: “Any cut in capacity would be a disaster for many clubs after everything we have endured. We need to find something that can guarantee full stadiums whatever is happening and the Covid certification scheme has been proven to work.”

[suewhistle]

2 hours ago, JRM said:

We should be, but clubs seem to be holding back, no details yet regarding Everton away, many fans i know have already booked travel arrangements to get the best deal so hopefully we'll get a proper allocation of tickets. 

I'd rather given up the idea of going to see Newcastle: had hoped to drive up for a few days with a friend in the Dales and a quick trip up on the train from Darlo.  But the current confused situation and resurgence of cases  has rather put me off the idea. I'm of the age where I've been double vaccinated but not sure about my heart for getting up to the away stand at St. James'!.

[Charlie Wayman]

On 22/07/2021 at 12:18, TWar said:

If the vaccine has anything other than 0% or 100% efficacy then the number of people who have it effects every person, this is virology 101. Here is a comment where I break down the reasoning for this in another thread:

---

Getting the vaccine lowers your chances of catching COVID by approximately 91%. It also lessens symptoms considerably, but that isn't the reason for why the club insist on being vaccinated. It is definitely false to say it doesn't lower chances of getting it.

Sources:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/getting-a-pfizer-or-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-can-drop-your-risk-for-infection-by-91
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/226413/almost-double-vaccinated-people-england-have/

The reason for insisting on vaccines can be seen through simple decision mathematics:

- Imagine a vaccine source S and two people labelled X and Y wherein X is the "passer" and Y is the receiver.
- Imagine the vaccine is 90% effective.
Consider three cases
- First, if neither X or Y is vaccinated then there is a 100% of the virus being passed from S to X to Y.
- Second, if Y is and X isn't there is a 10% chance of the virus going from S to X to Y.
- Third, If both X and Y are vaccinated then there is a 1% chance of S to X to Y (10% of 10%).

Therefore X not being vaccinated directly effects the health of Y even if Y is vaccinated, any more risk they take on is compounded to everyone else in the network.

In actuality it is a big web of passers and receivers and compound probability is what keeps us safe. This is why, mathematically, insisting on vaccination before gathering is essential, because the vaccine massively reduces risk but it isn't perfect so you need to reduce the transmissibility between nodes. Apologies for nerding out on this one a bit, it's a bit closer to what I do for a living

---

TLDR: If the vaccine has an X% chance of not stopping the virus then the chances of it making it through two jumps is an X% of X% chance, which is significantly smaller. Therefore reducing every given jump reduces everyone's chances, it's a simple decision maths problem!

Also some people can't get the vaccine and rely on others to have it so they don't catch the virus off them, but empathising with the vulnerable is hard for some so I don't tend to lead with this argument.

We used to call this common sense.

[East Kent Saint]

5 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

We used to call this common sense.

A lot of people seem to demonstrate they don’t have any common sense whatsoever! At the moment no one can plan anything with any certainty that the law/rules won’t change at a drop of a hat. 

[Griffo]

Won’t be setting foot in anywhere asking for proof of vaccination. It is a personal choice and the passport will create a two tier society. If you’ve had the jab then good on you, you’re well protected - crack on.

Saints are perfectly happy to preach inclusivity but are seemingly about to exclude many younger fans from games, who have more chance of drowning month to month than being affected by the virus.

 

 

 

Edited 24 July, 2021 by Griffo

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, Griffo said:

Won’t be setting foot in anywhere asking for proof of vaccination. It is a personal choice and the passport will create a two tier society. If you’ve had the jab then good on you, you’re well protected - crack on.

Saints are perfectly happy to preach inclusivity but are seemingly about to exclude many younger fans from games, who have more chance of drowning month to month than being affected by the virus.

 

 

 

Wearing trainers is a personal choice, don’t expect to get let into too many night clubs. If it’s a personal choice, you aren’t being excluded.

[waylander]

8 hours ago, Griffo said:

Won’t be setting foot in anywhere asking for proof of vaccination. It is a personal choice and the passport will create a two tier society. If you’ve had the jab then good on you, you’re well protected - crack on.

Saints are perfectly happy to preach inclusivity but are seemingly about to exclude many younger fans from games, who have more chance of drowning month to month than being affected by the virus.

 

 

 

You don't get it, do you? Its not about you.

Let me explain. Have you heard of asymptomatic transmission? That is someone with no Covid symptoms can infect people around them and never know they had it. It could be you infecting the person in the seat in the row in front of you, the bloke taking a piss beside you in the Gents at half-time. It could be you infecting me, and that's a problem because I'm a leukaemia survivor with a damaged immune system that may not have made any antibodies in response to the vaccine.

If you are vaccinated then that risk of you getting infected and transmitting it is greatly reduced.

I want to be able to go to matches at St Mary's again.

And if you're so sure that you are not at risk yourself you should read this  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-57375406

Get a jab. *Insult removed by mod*

[Ken Tone]

3 hours ago, Griffo said:

Won’t be setting foot in anywhere asking for proof of vaccination. It is a personal choice and the passport will create a two tier society. If you’ve had the jab then good on you, you’re well protected - crack on.

Saints are perfectly happy to preach inclusivity but are seemingly about to exclude many younger fans from games, who have more chance of drowning month to month than being affected by the virus.

 

 

 

Yes a 2 tier society...... responsible moral human beings who've been vaccinated to protect others as well as themselves- and 'others'.

[Griffo]

4 hours ago, waylander said:

You don't get it, do you? Its not about you.

Let me explain. Have you heard of asymptomatic transmission? That is someone with no Covid symptoms can infect people around them and never know they had it. It could be you infecting the person in the seat in the row in front of you, the bloke taking a piss beside you in the Gents at half-time. It could be you infecting me, and that's a problem because I'm a leukaemia survivor with a damaged immune system that may not have made any antibodies in response to the vaccine.

If you are vaccinated then that risk of you getting infected and transmitting it is greatly reduced.

I want to be able to go to matches at St Mary's again.

And if you're so sure that you are not at risk yourself you should read this  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-57375406

Get a jab, you selfish c#nt!

 

No thank you. By that reckoning we should ban smoking completely and stop allowing people to drive as they can directly harm others too. You mention the risk of harming others, but they’re protected by the vaccine. If people feel unsafe they should get the jab themselves and take personal responsibility for the situations they put themselves in.

See you all in the away end at Goodison.

 

Edited 24 July, 2021 by Griffo

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Griffo said:

No thank you. By that reckoning we should ban smoking completely and stop allowing people to drive as they can directly harm others too. You mention the risk of harming others, but they’re protected by the vaccine.

See you all in the away end at Goodison. Cough.

 

Pathetic response. If you you want to go to St Mary's, get a vaccine. If you don't want to go, then don't have your jabs, but stop whining. 

I hope Everton don't let you in either. 

[teamsaint]

5 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Wearing trainers is a personal choice, don’t expect to get let into too many night clubs. If it’s a personal choice, you aren’t being excluded.

Of course he is being excluded . Vaccine passports have no public health benefit, and will prove disastrous for the relationship between the state and the individual, a relationship that has already been hugely damaged.

 

[Lighthouse]

32 minutes ago, Griffo said:

By that reckoning we should ban smoking completely

Smoking is banned in almost all public and commercial buildings. By that measure it is in fact a lot like Covid passports.

32 minutes ago, Griffo said:

stop allowing people to drive

Driving is a necessary part of daily life, being unvaccinated isn't. There are also laws governing all the major factors in road deaths; speed, drug and alcohol use, MOT requirements, driving tests, bans for point accumulation, seat belts. Driving is much MORE tightly regulated than simply needing a vaccine.

32 minutes ago, Griffo said:

they’re protected by the vaccine. If people feel unsafe they should get the jab themselves and take personal responsibility for the situations they put themselves in.

I can't believe this still has to be explained but it simply isn't true. There is still risk to people, even if they're fully vaccinated, the whole point is to bring deaths down to a level which are comparable to a bad flu season. That number will depend largely on what percentage of the population is vaccinated and what percentage is walking around, spreading disease and acting as a living petri-dish for new variants to develop.

 

Nobody is forcing you to get vaccinated but if you don't then you have a hand in killing people, whether you'd like to admit that or not.

[Griffo]

The risk of covid adversely affecting someone is higher the higher the BMI of the person is.

If Saints truly cared about their support they would do a BMI test on fans at the turnstile, turning away anyone that was overweight.