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Lord Duckhunter

By Lord Duckhunter
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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 08:58, Lighthouse said:

That would be an antitheist, atheism is a position of neutrality 

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You're intelligent enough to appreciate that there is argument galore about the definition of atheism but, semantics aside, it must be accepted that a person is born with neither a belief nor disbelief in God or religion (the latter not being a requirement to believe in the former). 

Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:02, egg said:

You're intelligent enough to appreciate that there is argument galore about the definition of atheism but, semantics aside, it must be accepted that a person is born with neither a belief nor disbelief in God or religion (the latter not being a requirement to believe in the former). 

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I would agree wholeheartedly.  No point arguing over words when we basically mean the same thing.

 

Trousers - That’s not quite true, pretty much everyone is agnostic whether they believe in a higher being or not. You can be an agnostic Christian if you acknowledge that there’s no reason to believe what you do but choose to believe it anyway. The only way not to be agnostic would be to prove the existence of a god, which some people believe they have through various means.

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:29, Lighthouse said:

I would agree wholeheartedly.  No point arguing over words when we basically mean the same thing.

 

Trousers - That’s not quite true, pretty much everyone is agnostic whether they believe in a higher being or not. You can be an agnostic Christian if you acknowledge that there’s no reason to believe what you do but choose to believe it anyway. The only way not to be agnostic would be to prove the existence of a god, which some people believe they have through various means.

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On your latter point. Proving the existence of a god will never happen as one can never scientifically prove the existence of faith, and by extension, who or what - if anything) they put their faith in. The truth though is that we all live by faith of sorts, the difference is the extent to which we acknowledge or accept that. 

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 27/06/2021 at 08:29, Turkish said:

No one is born an atheist either 

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Atheist = not holding a belief in god

Babies do not have a belief in God = every baby there has ever been is/was an atheist

The indoctrination and brainwashing happens when children are older.

Edited by Matthew Le God
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:41, Matthew Le God said:

Atheist = holding a belief in god

Babies do not have a belief in God = atheist

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Babies dont have a belief or disbelief in anything Matthew. That does make them an atheist. Bit like you weren’t born a dickwad, you became one 

egg

egg

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:41, Matthew Le God said:

Atheist = holding a belief in god

Babies do not have a belief in God = atheist

Expand  

Simple yes or know Matty - do you agree that a child is born with neither a belief nor disbelief in God or religion? The title slapped on it is irrelevant. 

Edited by egg
Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:43, Turkish said:

Babies dont have a belief or disbelief in anything Matthew. That does make them an atheist. Bit like you weren’t born a dickwad, you became one 

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This post just further highlights your ignorance on this topic. Theism and atheism is a binary choice of belief in a god, there is no 3rd option! You either believe in a god (theist) or you do not believe in a god (atheist). 

Every baby there has ever been does not believe in a god so is an atheist.

Agnosticism deals with knowledge... not belief. It is not a third option when it comes to belief. Agnosticism is a subset of both atheism and theism.

Edited by Matthew Le God
Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:44, egg said:

Simple yes or know Matty - do you agree that a child is born with neither a belief nor disbelief in God or religion? The title slapped on it is irrelevant. 

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My previous answer to Turkish one post up explains.

Edited by Matthew Le God
egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:49, Matthew Le God said:

My previous answer to Turkish one post up explains.

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I think we agree that babies are born neither believing nor disbelieving in anything. You can slap whatever title you want om that, the principle is agreed. 

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:48, Matthew Le God said:

This post just further highlights your ignorance on this topic. Theism and atheism is a binary choice of belief, there is no 3rd option! You either believe in a god (theist) or you do not believe in a god (atheist). 

Every baby there has ever been does not believe in a god so is an atheist.

Agnosticism deals with knowledge... not believe. It is not a third option. Agnosticism is a subset of both atheism and theism.

Expand  

Jesus wept 
 

“Atheism is a binary choice of belief” so when a baby is born how have they at that point chosen to believe or not believe in anything ? 
 

what an own goal
 

and you call me ignorant 🤣🤣🤣

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:52, egg said:

I think we agree that babies are born neither believing nor disbelieving in anything. You can slap whatever title you want om that, the principle is agreed. 

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Which makes all babies atheist. Not believing in a god = atheist.

You are bringing 'disbelief' into it when that is irrelevant.

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:52, egg said:

I think we agree that babies are born neither believing nor disbelieving in anything. You can slap whatever title you want om that, the principle is agreed. 

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He even acknowledges when calling me ignorant that atheism is a choice. A baby when entering the world has not yet made that choice, ergo not born no atheist.

another own goal from Matty

 

Minnesota United Soccer GIF by Univision Deportes

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:53, Turkish said:

Jesus wept 
 

“Atheism is a binary choice of belief” so when a baby is born how have they at that point chosen to believe or not believe in anything ? 
 

what an own goal
 

and you call me ignorant 🤣🤣🤣

Expand  

You are still unable to grasp the basics of what an atheist and theist is. 

Atheist = not believing in a god. It doesn't require a choose to be made. There are two option...

1) You belief in a god or gods

2) You don't believe in a god or gods

There is no 3rd option. 

So yes, you are ignorant of the basics of this discussion.

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:54, Matthew Le God said:

Which makes all babies atheist. Not believing in a god = atheist.

You are bringing 'disbelief' into it when that is irrelevant.

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Of course its relevant. A baby has no idea of the concept of God, thus their is neither belief nor disbelief. 

Let's move this along. At what point do you say that babies start to develop faith in something other than themselves? 

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:57, Matthew Le God said:

You are still unable to grasp the basics of what an atheist and theist is. 

Atheist = not believing in a god. It doesn't require a choose to be made. There are two option...

1) You belief in a god or gods

2) You don't believe in a god or gods

There is no 3rd option. 

So yes, you are ignorant of the basics of this discussion.

Expand  

Laughable that you are apply this to a baby. Embarrassing 

Edited by Turkish
Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:57, egg said:

Of course its relevant. A baby has no idea of the concept of God, thus their is neither belief nor disbelief. 

Let's move this along. At what point do you say that babies start to develop faith in something other than themselves? 

Expand  

Schrodinger's baby?

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:57, Matthew Le God said:

You are still unable to grasp the basics of what an atheist and theist is. 

Atheist = not believing in a god. It doesn't require a choose to be made. There are two option...

1) You belief in a god or gods

2) You don't believe in a god or gods

There is no 3rd option. 

So yes, you are ignorant of the basics of this discussion.

Expand  

Mate, this ain't a theological debate. It's a really simple point that a baby is born with no opinion on anything. You can call that what you want. On the wider point, there's a variety of theories on what defines atheism. Some point say there is agnosticism, others dispute it. Who gives a shit. 

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 10:00, Matthew Le God said:

When it comes to the question... 'Do you believe in a god' what do you think the options are?

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Answer the question.  At what point do you say that babies start to develop faith in something other than themselves? 

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 10:03, egg said:

Mate, this ain't a theological debate. It's a really simple point that a baby is born with no opinion on anything. You can call that what you want. On the wider point, there's a variety of theories on what defines atheism. Some point say there is agnosticism, others dispute it. Who gives a shit. 

Expand  

Agnosticism deals with knowledge... not belief. It is not a third option when discussing belief.

Knowledge is a subset of belief. You can be a...

1) agnostic atheist

2) gnostic atheist

3) agnostic theist

4) gnostic theist

Both you and @Turkish haven't grasped this.

Belief in god is binary, you either believe or you don't believe. Atheism is not the claim there are no gods. If you don't believe in a god then you are an atheist. So babies are atheist.

 

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 10:07, Matthew Le God said:

Agnosticism deals with knowledge... not belief. It is not a third option when discussing belief.

Knowledge is a subset of belief. You can be a...

1) agnostic atheist

2) gnostic atheist

3) agnostic theist

4) gnostic theist

Both you and @Turkish haven't grasped this.

Belief in god is binary, you either believe or you don't believe. Atheism is not the claim there are no gods. If you don't believe in a god then you are an atheist. So babies are atheist.

 

Expand  

Babies don’t believe in anything. It’s really not hard to grasp. In fact it’s only you that seems to be struggling with the concept. When you think it’s everyone else it usually isn’t Matthew. 
 

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 10:04, egg said:

Answer the question.  At what point do you say that babies start to develop faith in something other than themselves? 

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I don't know, but when indoctrination/brainwashing starts is irrelevant to babies being born atheist. Faith is the excuse people make for believing in something without evidence. If you had good evidence... you wouldn't need faith.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 27/06/2021 at 10:09, Turkish said:

Babies don’t believe in anything. It’s really not hard to grasp. In fact it’s only you that seems to be struggling with the concept. When you think it’s everyone else it usually isn’t Matthew. 
 

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I agree, babies don't believe in anything. Non belief in a god = atheist. So babies are atheist.

You still have not grasped that being an atheist does not automatically mean you claim knowledge there are no gods. 

I really don't know how I can break this down any simpler for you. You and @egg aren't grasping the basics.

Do you agree that... knowledge is a subset of belief. You can be an...

1) agnostic atheist

2) gnostic atheist

3) agnostic theist

4) gnostic theist

???

Edited by Matthew Le God
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 10:13, Matthew Le God said:

I agree, babies don't believe in anything. Non belief in a god = atheist. So babies are atheist.

You still have not grasped that being an atheist does not mean you claim knowledge there are no gods. 

I really don't know how I can break this down any simpler for you. You and @egg aren't grasping the basics.

Do you agree that... knowledge is a subset of belief. You can be an...

1) agnostic atheist

2) gnostic atheist

3) agnostic theist

4) gnostic theist

???

Expand  

So if they don’t believe in anything then they also cannot not believe in anything as non believing is a form of belief. Ergo you have chosen to believe something doesn’t exist.

 

as you pointed out earlier “atheism is a binary choice”

So by your own admission if a baby cannot chose to believe in something it also cannot chose not the believe in something 

 

well done we’re getting there 👏👏👏

 

Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 27/06/2021 at 10:13, Matthew Le God said:

I agree, babies don't believe in anything. Non belief in a god = atheist. So babies are atheist.

You still have not grasped that being an atheist does not mean you claim knowledge there are no gods. 

I really don't know how I can break this down any simpler for you. You and @egg aren't grasping the basics.

Do you agree that... knowledge is a subset of belief. You can be an...

1) agnostic atheist

2) gnostic atheist

3) agnostic theist

4) gnostic theist

???

Expand  

Not sure that is strictly true.  An Atheist :

  Quote

is “a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods,” according to Merriam-Webster

Expand  

Surely, someone would need to understand the definition of what a god is in order to not believe in them?

Otherwise you could claim that all dogs are atheist.  All trees are atheist.  All fish are atheist ad infinitum.

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 27/06/2021 at 09:48, Matthew Le God said:

You either believe in a god (theist) or you do not believe in a god (atheist). 

Expand  

Which of those two words would you use to label me?

I've no idea if there's a God or not and I spend zero time pondering whether I believe one or the other.

Edited by trousers
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted

What a great start to the day

MLG proving he doesn’t know what an atheist is

MLG embarrassing himself by prattling on about belief systems in babies

MLG scoring about 5 more own goals

im off out for a run, catch up later chump

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