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Glenn Hoddle admits the selection of Paul Scholes was why Matthew Le Tissier wasn’t called up for England’s World Cup 98 squad

Maggie May

By Maggie May
in The Saints

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John Boy Saint

John Boy Saint

Posted
Posted

Matty didn’t go because Glenda couldn’t live with the fact that Matt had more sublime skill than he could even comprehend being in possession of.

That Tranmere game if he had not a jot of green eye and put MLT on at half time, second half would have being a breeze as the whole Tranmere squad would played more concerned at accidentally giving a milligram of a chance to Matty. 
 

 

  • Like 2
The Cat

The Cat

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 03:44, Pilchards said:

In years to come Southgate will be saying I should of chosen JWP instead of Henderson as I knew he was not fit but I let him convince me he was.

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Or "I should have chosen JWP instead of Phillips because he's actually better but I listened to some fans on SaintsWeb who weirdly don't like their own players and now we can't even beat Scotland."

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 07:12, The Cat said:

Or "I should have chosen JWP instead of Phillips because he's actually better but I listened to some fans on SaintsWeb who weirdly don't like their own players and now we can't even beat Scotland."

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Or: lunatics on SaintsWeb have managed to escalate a marginal decision of JWP squeaking into the squad as twenty-fourth or twenty-fifth pick as being a footballing outrage and the reason we won't win the trophy.

I don't understand that people don't get that if he had made it ahead of Ben White he'd have just been sat on the bench for two entire games.

He wasn't going to go from not in the squad at all to "okay James, you're first name on the team sheet and taking all the set pieces for the entire tournament".

Big fan of JWP but this forum has lost its mind.

Also, Paul Scholes is better than MLT for fucks sake.

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The Cat

The Cat

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 07:20, CB Fry said:

Or: lunatics on SaintsWeb have managed to escalate a marginal decision of JWP squeaking into the squad as twenty-fourth or twenty-fifth pick as being a footballing outrage and the reason we won't win the trophy.

I don't understand that people don't get that if he had made it ahead of Ben White he'd have just been sat on the bench for two entire games.

He wasn't going to go from not in the squad at all to "okay James, you're first name on the team sheet and taking all the set pieces for the entire tournament".

Big fan of JWP but this forum has lost its mind.

Also, Paul Scholes is better than MLT for fucks sake.

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I know all of that but it's funny to mention JWP just to see what reaction it gets.

Still, he would have been more useful than Phillips in yesterday's game.

Avenue_Saint

Avenue_Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 07:20, CB Fry said:

Or: lunatics on SaintsWeb have managed to escalate a marginal decision of JWP squeaking into the squad as twenty-fourth or twenty-fifth pick as being a footballing outrage and the reason we won't win the trophy.

I don't understand that people don't get that if he had made it ahead of Ben White he'd have just been sat on the bench for two entire games.

He wasn't going to go from not in the squad at all to "okay James, you're first name on the team sheet and taking all the set pieces for the entire tournament".

Big fan of JWP but this forum has lost its mind.

Also, Paul Scholes is better than MLT for fucks sake.

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Scholes isn’t a better player than Le Tiss.

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 08:32, Matthew Le God said:

It wasn't merely a case of Le Tissier vs Scholes for a place in the squad.

Hoddle had Paul Merson in the squad, even though he was playing in the 2nd tier for Middlesbrough.

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Exactly right. MLT gives you something different. Why should it be Scholes or MLT? There are others players that could have been left behind for Matt.

As for JWP sitting on the bench for the competition, plenty of other players will be sitting on the bench for the whole competition but if JWP was there at least he would be an option. We were crying out for a player with his skill set last night. 

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 09:32, sadoldgit said:

As for JWP sitting on the bench for the competition, plenty of other players will be sitting on the bench for the whole competition but if JWP was there at least he would be an option. We were crying out for a player with his skill set last night. 

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In open play, what was that skill set? 

  • Confused 1
sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 09:45, egg said:

In open play, what was that skill set? 

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You’ve not seen him play this year then? He gives you exactly what Rice or Phillips can do plus his dead ball delivery. Would we have performed any worse with him on the pitch last night?

CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 09:32, sadoldgit said:

if JWP was there at least he would be an option. We were crying out for a player with his skill set last night. 

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Every living football player is "an option".

And there were far better "options" sat on the bench already and could have started or come on.

Honestly absolutely insane that anyone would think that the difference last night could have been JWP. But obviously it's just on this forum. As said many times before, if JWP was a Crystal Palace or Burnley player, none of you would give a toss if he was in the squad or not.

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 09:57, sadoldgit said:

You’ve not seen him play this year then? He gives you exactly what Rice or Phillips can do plus his dead ball delivery. Would we have performed any worse with him on the pitch last night?

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Yep. He's an inferior player to Rice and Philips. That's why they're there and he's at home. 

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 10:04, CB Fry said:

Every living football player is "an option".

And there were far better "options" sat on the bench already and could have started or come on.

Honestly absolutely insane that anyone would think that the difference last night could have been JWP. But obviously it's just on this forum. As said many times before, if JWP was a Crystal Palace or Burnley player, none of you would give a toss if he was in the squad or not.

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Scarily it isn’t just this forum https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/southampton/news/55195/england-lacked-three-things-in-scotland-stalemate-!-james--ward--prowse

whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 10:04, CB Fry said:

Every living football player is "an option".

And there were far better "options" sat on the bench already and could have started or come on.

Honestly absolutely insane that anyone would think that the difference last night could have been JWP. But obviously it's just on this forum. As said many times before, if JWP was a Crystal Palace or Burnley player, none of you would give a toss if he was in the squad or not.

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My Scottish mate said they were all high fiving each other when JWP wasn’t picked as they realised they might have a chance against an England team omitting the world’s best set piece taker. CollinsDic will understand why the media aren’t reporting it. 

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted

Personally, I always thought it was more of an outrage he didn’t get in Venables ‘96 squad. He was fantastic in 94,95,96 yet Venables didn’t appear to fancy him.

By ‘98 he was slightly on the wane, so it was more debatable whether he should have got in. 

Hoddle gets more stick because he picked him for the stiffs , and appeared to give him the chance, before binning him after he took that chance. Venables just blanked him after the Irish fiasco. He was a far better player in ‘96 and could have made a real difference. 

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 10:19, Lord Duckhunter said:

Personally, I always thought it was more of an outrage he didn’t get in Venables ‘96 squad. He was fantastic in 94,95,96 yet Venables didn’t appear to fancy him.

By ‘98 he was slightly on the wane, so it was more debatable whether he should have got in. 

Hoddle gets more stick because he picked him for the stiffs , and appeared to give him the chance, before binning him after he took that chance. Venables just blanked him after the Irish fiasco. He was a far better player in ‘96 and could have made a real difference. 

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Always felt MLT's prospects with England probably diminished when he rejected the chance to sign for El Spiv at Tottenham.

That and the fact he didn't look to spend two-thirds of his disposable income in Scribes nightclub.

Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 11:22, Matthew Le God said:

Because Southgate didn't pick him doesn't mean he is correct.

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JWP isn't as good as Rice or Phillips in the positions that they play, the fact that Southgate is still trying to play Phillips out of position is odd

Rice is a better No.6 than anyone else in the squad, and as a pure defensive midfielder Phillips is better than JWP

Prowse for me was the Henderson alternative, and once Jordan decided for himself he was fit enough then it ended JWPs chances of making the squad

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 11:22, Matthew Le God said:

Because Southgate didn't pick him doesn't mean he is correct.

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It does. JWP is neat, tidy, hard working and a decent set ball man. That's it. He's too limited and that's why he's improving his golf handicap this summer. 

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 11:26, egg said:

1) It does.

2) JWP is neat, tidy, hard working and a decent set ball man. That's it. He's too limited and that's why he's improving his golf handicap this summer. 

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1) So Gareth Southgate's opinion is the footballing authority and is infallible? 🤔

2) What area is he limited in that Phillips is superior to him?

Behind Enemy Lines

Behind Enemy Lines

Posted
Posted

I think JWP could have made a difference last night. As a few have said, he’d do no worse in his position in open play than we saw last night. But, he can take corners that get past the first defender and free kicks that cause problems. 
 

Just my Saints rose tinted glasses opinion. 

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 11:29, Matthew Le God said:

1) So Gareth Southgate's opinion is the footballing authority and is infallible? 🤔

2) What area is he limited in that Phillips is superior to him?

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1. Don't be a plank. JWP is the inferior player. It's not about the manager. 

2. The speed with which the ball is released, forward passing, runs into space, movement, aerial ability, strength, tackling are all areas where Phillips offers more. You can think otherwise, but to me there's a difference in quality in Phillips favour. 

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 11:38, egg said:

1. Don't be a plank. JWP is the inferior player. It's not about the manager. 

2. The speed with which the ball is released, forward passing, runs into space, movement, aerial ability, strength, tackling are all areas where Phillips offers more. You can think otherwise, but to me there's a difference in quality in Phillips favour. 

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Ward-Prowse out did Phillips last season for...

- goals

- assists

- shots per game

- aerial duels won per game

- key passes per game

- fewer bad controls 

- total passes per game

- crosses per game

- pass completion

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 11:45, Matthew Le God said:

Ward-Prowse out did Phillips last season for...

- goals

- assists

- shots per game

- aerial duels won per game

- key passes per game

- fewer bad controls 

- total passes per game

- crosses per game

- pass completion

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Where's the stats for speed of release, runs into space in key areas, movement? I'll help you, there are none. Stats aren't everything in the real world Matthew. Your loyalty to JWP is admirable, but he's the inferior player in open play. Let's agree to differ. 

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted (edited)

It’s interesting that those on here who have played football in real life seem to pretty much all agree that although we like JWP he’s behind Phillips and Rice. Those that play the game on a computer and spreadsheets will point at a list of statistics to argue that he’s better.

Edited by Turkish
  • Like 7
redkeith

redkeith

Posted
Posted
  On 18/06/2021 at 23:16, Maggie May said:

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/glenn-hoddle-says-england-star-24346382

“Paul Scholes. I managed a lot of players, Shearer was excellent, Ince was excellent, David Beckham too, all wonderful players.

”Scholes was the reason why Le Tissier didn't go. He was such a good player, he could play off the front, he could play anywhere, he just got on with it and put his foot in if need be.”

 

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The next sentence should have read " So I left Le Tissier, one of the best penalty takers of all time,  at home and we went out on penalties " .

  • Like 1
Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 19/06/2021 at 12:20, Turkish said:

It’s interesting that those on here who have played football in real life seem to pretty much all agree that although we like JWP he’s behind Phillips and Rice. Those that play the game on a computer and spreadsheets will point at a list of statistics to argue that he’s better.

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Season 3 Nbc GIF by The Office

Stats are based on real life actions! 🙄

Many football opinions are not based on reality of what happened in games.

Edited by Matthew Le God
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 12:27, Matthew Le God said:

Season 3 Nbc GIF by The Office

Stats are based on real life actions! 🙄

Many football opinions are not based on reality of what happened in games.

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Bad memories of the playground pal? Assume you were the geeky one who always got put in goal first for headers and volleys people whacking the ball at you as hard as they can and never letting you get out of goal.

egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 12:27, Matthew Le God said:

Season 3 Nbc GIF by The Office

Stats are based on real life actions! 🙄

Many football opinions are not based on reality of what happened in games.

Expand  

Seriously Matthew, arguing the merits of a footballer based on stats is ridiculous. They don't tell anyone how a player finds space, how he picks up the ball on the half turn, how he moves when he gets on the ball, whether he looks up before he gets the ball or has to think when he gets it, how quickly he releases the ball, whether he completes a pass by recycling it or by progressing play, etc etc. 

You won't get any of that on a spreadsheet. Turkish is right. 

  • Like 1
Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 12:43, egg said:

Seriously Matthew, arguing the merits of a footballer based on stats is ridiculous. They don't tell anyone how a player finds space, how he picks up the ball on the half turn, how he moves when he gets on the ball, whether he looks up before he gets the ball or has to think when he gets it, how quickly he releases the ball, whether he completes a pass by recycling it or by progressing play, etc etc. 

You won't get any of that on a spreadsheet. Turkish is right. 

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You clearly haven't had access to modern scouting databases then.

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 12:43, egg said:

Seriously Matthew, arguing the merits of a footballer based on stats is ridiculous. They don't tell anyone how a player finds space, how he picks up the ball on the half turn, how he moves when he gets on the ball, whether he looks up before he gets the ball or has to think when he gets it, how quickly he releases the ball, whether he completes a pass by recycling it or by progressing play, etc etc. 

You won't get any of that on a spreadsheet. Turkish is right. 

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Two years ago according to some sky sports stats ranking Vestergaard was the best defender in the premier league yet anyone who regular watched him play that season would happily have sold him for half what we paid for him. That sums it’s up for me

IFHP

IFHP

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 12:43, egg said:

Seriously Matthew, arguing the merits of a footballer based on stats is ridiculous. They don't tell anyone how a player finds space, how he picks up the ball on the half turn, how he moves when he gets on the ball, whether he looks up before he gets the ball or has to think when he gets it, how quickly he releases the ball, whether he completes a pass by recycling it or by progressing play, etc etc. 

You won't get any of that on a spreadsheet. Turkish is right. 

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Have to agree that stats dont tell the full picture

I have had many an argument at work on  monday when told Saints had 15 shots etc or 60% possession  - yes we may have but none were ever going to go in and all our posssession was in our own half etc.

A player may have a good pass completion stat - but if he only passes 5 yards and along the back line than so he should.

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 12:50, IFHP said:

Have to agree that stats dont tell the full picture

I have had many an argument at work on  monday when told Saints had 15 shots etc or 60% possession  - yes we may have but none were ever going to go in and all our posssession was in our own half etc.

A player may have a good pass completion stat - but if he only passes 5 yards and along the back line than so he should.

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Sure if you rely solely on broad stats it can be flawed. But you can get stats that break that down further which then do make them relevant and useful. The 'key passes' stat for example.

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 12:51, Matthew Le God said:

Depends what you consider 'decent' and why is that relevant anyway?

I've been paid to scout for professional teams... how about you?

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Really?! Yet despite all that whenever it comes to a football discussion you have a remarkable ability to prove you know zip all about the game, other than quote a few statistics of course 

  • Like 1
Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 19/06/2021 at 12:53, Turkish said:

Really?! Yet despite all that whenever it comes to a football discussion you have a remarkable ability to prove you know zip all about the game, other than quote a few statistics of course 

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This isn't the 1980s Turkish, statistics in combination with attending games is how recruitment works in 2021. The small amount of professional scouting work I've had has come from working for SI for 14 years, so for you to dismiss FM as an irrelevant computer game not based on reality is bollocks. 

Edited by Matthew Le God
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 12:57, Matthew Le God said:

This isn't the 1980s Turkish, statistics in combination with attending games is how recruitment works in 2021. The small amount of professional scouting work I've had has come from working for SI for 14 years, so for you to dismiss FM as an irrelevant computer game not based on reality is bollocks. 

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So the “scouting network” is filling in a spreadsheet for your silly little game 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 13:05, Turkish said:

So the “scouting network” is filling in a spreadsheet for your silly little game 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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No, because of my work for the 'silly little game' I've been approached by independent scouting companies and professional clubs to do work for them.

  • Like 3
egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 19/06/2021 at 12:51, Matthew Le God said:

Depends what you consider 'decent' and why is that relevant anyway?

I've been paid to scout for professional teams... how about you?

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I vote pony. I mean no disrespect, but the way you post, it's clear to me that your knowledge of the game is very superficial. 

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