eScooters

[SNSUN]

Are you for or against the idea of eScooters being made legal for public use (privately owned not one of the current hire schemes)? Pros/Cons? Lazy person's bicycle or clean transport solution to get people out of cars?

[Weston Super Saint]

Excellent idea but no way to safely implement.

They can't go on the roads as there will be too many fatalities, which leaves the footpaths which are barely fit for purpose for pedestrians, let alone kids hurtling around without any common sense at 15 - 20mph.

Would need a major infrastructure upgrade across the country, but the cost would far outweigh any benefits.

Not that anything I've said will make a blind bit of difference - already seeing plenty of them everyday and they are still technically illegal to use in public (unless part of the trial in very limited areas).

[egg]

Against, for the reasons Weston says. They're brilliant things, but there'd be carnage if loads of them were on the roads, ditto pavements. 

[The Cat]

We'd need a load more cycle lanes to accommodate them. It's a pity our roads are so narrow in places that we can't build adequate cycle lanes, especially in cities because the scooters are great and could massively ease congestion in built up areas.

[whelk]

  On 16/06/2021 at 05:17, Weston Super Saint said:

Excellent idea but no way to safely implement.

They can't go on the roads as there will be too many fatalities, which leaves the footpaths which are barely fit for purpose for pedestrians, let alone kids hurtling around without any common sense at 15 - 20mph.

Would need a major infrastructure upgrade across the country, but the cost would far outweigh any benefits.

Not that anything I've said will make a blind bit of difference - already seeing plenty of them everyday and they are still technically illegal to use in public (unless part of the trial in very limited areas).

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Yes without the infrastructure they are just an annoyance. Need overall of proper cycle/scooter lanes where practical eg Shirley High St not Bassett Ave. Never the money though as taxes are bad right so councils reduced to largely token ineffective schemes. 

Not been on one myself but if I was in situation of that or a bus would definitely choose the scooter. 

 

[badgerx16]

Too fast and unstable for the pavement, far too dangerous for the road. If they must be allowed at least lower their top speed to 12 mph and make helmets compulsory.

Edited 16 June, 2021 by badgerx16

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 16/06/2021 at 14:42, badgerx16 said:

Too fast and unstable for the pavement, far too dangerous for the road. If they must be allowed at least lower their top speed to 12 mph and make helmets compulsory.

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That just leaves the pavements though.

We've spent decades trying to re-educate drivers to drive slowly in built up areas and spent billions trying to make cars safer when they inevitably collide with pedestrians.

To allow motorised scooters on the pavements with kids would be ludicrous - pointy handlebars and head height!  Are the helmets to be compulsory for the scooter riders or pedestrians?

[Manuel]

If bicycles were a recent invention I'm sure they too would be banned from the roads.  The car is king.  But why allow bicycles and not e-scooters?  

 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 16/06/2021 at 18:18, Manuel said:

If bicycles were a recent invention I'm sure they too would be banned from the roads.  The car is king.  But why allow bicycles and not e-scooters?  

 

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There were bicycles before cars.  Technically cars are driving on cycle paths and horse tracks.

[Fan The Flames]

  On 16/06/2021 at 18:18, Manuel said:

If bicycles were a recent invention I'm sure they too would be banned from the roads.  The car is king.  But why allow bicycles and not e-scooters?  

 

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Little wheels and narrow board make them unstable, compared to a bike. Some punk went flying through the pub garden I was in the other night, taking short cut, and nearly wiped out the waitress with a tray of Stella.

[SW5 SAINT]

Twice in the last 24 hours I’ve had to dodge out of the way of a kid on an escooter on the pavement, engrossed in her/his mobile phone……

[Lighthouse]

  On 16/06/2021 at 18:26, Weston Super Saint said:

There were bicycles before cars.  Technically cars are driving on cycle paths and horse tracks.

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If there’s anything I’d want removing from the roads it’s horses. Between the dung and the extreme caution you have to take not to spook them, they’re a nuisance.

[moonraker]

Have used them In Spain and they are great.  A friend recently used one here in Bath and was impressed with the checks before he could hire and the GPS control that limits speed in pedestrian zones and cuts it off altogether in parks and other places.  We are both north of 60 and have no issues with them.  I don’t understand why certain people are always so quick to oppose change and new ideas, especially when they have no real experience of the change.

 

[badgerx16]

There is a bloke in Blackpool who rides a motorised monocycle. Now that looks a hairy ride.

[Fan The Flames]

  On 17/06/2021 at 10:29, moonraker said:

Have used them In Spain and they are great.  A friend recently used one here in Bath and was impressed with the checks before he could hire and the GPS control that limits speed in pedestrian zones and cuts it off altogether in parks and other places.  We are both north of 60 and have no issues with them.  I don’t understand why certain people are always so quick to oppose change and new ideas, especially when they have no real experience of the change.

 

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People accept good chamge. I think these things are dangerous and I wouldn't want my boy going around town on one. The fact that hired ones need all those controls on them says it all, because private ones don't have any controls.

[Hatch]

It's not the scooters that are the problem,  it is the utter imbeciles that would use them,  with less than zero common sense or manners

[Whitey Grandad]

One killed by a scooter,

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gone-girl-actor-lisa-banes-dies-from-scooter-crash-injuries-11623771082

and one killed on a scooter,

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/13/tv-presenter-emily-hartridge-dies-in-scooter-crash

We can expect lots more stories like these.

[moonraker]

  On 17/06/2021 at 14:03, Whitey Grandad said:

One killed by a scooter,

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gone-girl-actor-lisa-banes-dies-from-scooter-crash-injuries-11623771082

and one killed on a scooter,

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/13/tv-presenter-emily-hartridge-dies-in-scooter-crash

We can expect lots more stories like these.

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Any death on the road is a tragedy, however if the reasons for “banning” something is it’s potential to cause death the 100 plus cycling deaths a year would suggest that the licra mafia should be outlawed.  Life is full of risk if we avoid everything that has risk attached the world will standstill.  I also note you UK example was in 2019, do you have any more recent examples, especially as they are far more common now.  I do mean to diminish the tragedy of the death.

 

[Fan The Flames]

It's generally accepted that bikes shouldn't be on the pavement, so that rule should follow for e scooters, but they are far less safe on the road than a bike. 

What hole are they trying to fill that can't be done by walking, cycling or driving. The only scenario I can think off is someone who has a 15 minute + walk daily commute to the station and the same the other end 

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 17/06/2021 at 15:04, moonraker said:

Any death on the road is a tragedy, however if the reasons for “banning” something is it’s potential to cause death the 100 plus cycling deaths a year would suggest that the licra mafia should be outlawed.  Life is full of risk if we avoid everything that has risk attached the world will standstill.  I also note you UK example was in 2019, do you have any more recent examples, especially as they are far more common now.  I do mean to diminish the tragedy of the death.

 

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I don't have any other examples but there again I don't normally go looking for them. This search was triggered by the US example. 

You can always find a reason not to do something if you look hard enough.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 17/06/2021 at 15:15, Fan The Flames said:

It's generally accepted that bikes shouldn't be on the pavement, so that rule should follow for e scooters, but they are far less safe on the road than a bike. 

What hole are they trying to fill that can't be done by walking, cycling or driving. The only scenario I can think off is someone who has a 15 minute + walk daily commute to the station and the same the other end 

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Yes, scoot and ride is an obvious example.

[moonraker]

  On 17/06/2021 at 15:15, Fan The Flames said:

It's generally accepted that bikes shouldn't be on the pavement, so that rule should follow for e scooters, but they are far less safe on the road than a bike. 

What hole are they trying to fill that can't be done by walking, cycling or driving. The only scenario I can think off is someone who has a 15 minute + walk daily commute to the station and the same the other end 

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They are not filling a hole they are extending our options.  I am sure railway men, hostlers and farriers asked what hole motor cars were filling when we already had steam locomotion and hoarses.  You are bang on that neither bikes nor scooters should be on pavements.  On what do you base your assertion that e scooters are less safe on the road than a bike?  
 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 17/06/2021 at 15:15, Fan The Flames said:

It's generally accepted that bikes shouldn't be on the pavement, so that rule should follow for e scooters, but they are far less safe on the road than a bike. 

 

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I'd hope that everyone that rides a bike would know it's more than 'generally accepted' to ride on the pavement, it's against the law - maximum £500 fine!

[The Cat]

  On 17/06/2021 at 18:18, Weston Super Saint said:

I'd hope that everyone that rides a bike would know it's more than 'generally accepted' to ride on the pavement, it's against the law - maximum £500 fine!

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Not sure about where you live but loads of pavements here are shared with cycle paths. Seems to be the way forward as long as they aren't too narrow. 

I can't really blame people for cycling on pavements at other times as long as they do it sensibly because the roads are so dangerous. Far too many drivers see a cyclist as an inconvenience rather than a human on bike who is just trying to get from A to B and think nothing of squeezing them into a kerb because they are so important they can't wait 30 seconds until it's safe to pass. 

[whelk]

  On 17/06/2021 at 19:18, The Cat said:

Not sure about where you live but loads of pavements here are shared with cycle paths. Seems to be the way forward as long as they aren't too narrow. 

I can't really blame people for cycling on pavements at other times as long as they do it sensibly because the roads are so dangerous. Far too many drivers see a cyclist as an inconvenience rather than a human on bike who is just trying to get from A to B and think nothing of squeezing them into a kerb because they are so important they can't wait 30 seconds until it's safe to pass. 

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If you can’t handle cycling on the road then don’t have a bike. Cyclists on pavements are a menace. Fact that no police around ever had led to this seemingly being accepted. Same with selfish cunts who just park on double yellows as they need the cash point or a kebab.. they know they aren’t ever getting a ticket.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 17/06/2021 at 19:18, The Cat said:

Not sure about where you live but loads of pavements here are shared with cycle paths. Seems to be the way forward as long as they aren't too narrow. 

I can't really blame people for cycling on pavements at other times as long as they do it sensibly because the roads are so dangerous. Far too many drivers see a cyclist as an inconvenience rather than a human on bike who is just trying to get from A to B and think nothing of squeezing them into a kerb because they are so important they can't wait 30 seconds until it's safe to pass. 

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My point was that it is illegal to ride a bike on the pavement (if it isn't a designated shared cycle path).

What you've raised is a completely seperate issue.  Where I live there are many footpaths / pavements that have had a little blue sign stuck on them to designate that they are a shared cycle path.  In the vast majority of cases these have been planted to meet some kind of target and are not fit for purpose for either pedestrians or cyclists.  Then the cycle path will suddenly end and either force the cyclist to break the law and ride on the path or move out onto the busy road (usually at an inappropriate place causing traffic problems).  

[Jeremy Corbyn]

They need to make a call either way, at the moment there a just loads of ignorant youths roaming around on them.  If you legalise them but with certain rules at least there would be some structure.  Personally I think you should have to pass an online safety course before using one and they should be kept off the pavements.

[trousers]

Simple solution: Only those with an IQ test result above 120 can use these things. Problem sorted.

[trousers]

  On 17/06/2021 at 12:55, Hatch said:

It's not the scooters that are the problem,  it is the utter imbeciles that would use them,  with less than zero common sense or manners

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[Antrimsaint]

Nearly knocked one down the other day, just flew by me at a junction, had to swerve to miss. Guy just looked back and laughed.

Shame as I thought they were a useful addition but the speed is too much and it’s the imbeciles that will get the pilot scheme killed here in Liverpool. 

Two many of them doubled up, flying past people on pavements.

same problem with scramblers up here too. 

[warsash saint]

If it helps stop car use then surely it's gotta be a postive! Just ban under 17's from using them on public roads

[Antrimsaint]

  On 30/06/2021 at 10:04, warsash saint said:

If it helps stop car use then surely it's gotta be a postive! Just ban under 17's from using them on public roads

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I agree but its not 17 year olds lol. Its just eejits of all ages.

[warsash saint]

  On 30/06/2021 at 10:49, Antrimsaint said:

I agree but its not 17 year olds lol. Its just eejits of all ages.

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but if you tie any offences to their driving licence then that will surely act as a deterrent from behaving like an 'eejit'?

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 30/06/2021 at 14:36, warsash saint said:

but if you tie any offences to their driving licence then that will surely act as a deterrent from behaving like an 'eejit'?

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Doesn't that rely on everyone using one having a driving licence?  Apart from the early to late teens using them (who aren't eligible for a licence), I can see them becoming popular with the 18+ that don't have a licence / have lost their licence.

[The Kraken]

  On 30/06/2021 at 15:04, Weston Super Saint said:

Doesn't that rely on everyone using one having a driving licence?  Apart from the early to late teens using them (who aren't eligible for a licence), I can see them becoming popular with the 18+ that don't have a licence / have lost their licence.

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The Southampton scooters are supposed to require a provisional drivers license, I thought.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

  On 30/06/2021 at 15:29, The Kraken said:

The Southampton scooters are supposed to require a provisional drivers license, I thought.

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Or have an e-scooter license.  Short online course and everyone has to do a safety run through when they buy one.

[Whitey Grandad]

Coming home tonight along Hurley Road I saw a young kid on the opposite pavement swerving out into the road and back again to overtake a pedestrian. He couldn’t have been more than about eleven years old.

[whelk]

I want to see two gangs go at it in spearhead formation. 

[ecuk268]

  On 18/06/2021 at 12:32, trousers said:

Simple solution: Only those with an IQ test result above 120 can use these things. Problem sorted.

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Wouldn't see any in Pompey then.

[skintsaint]

  On 01/07/2021 at 12:19, ecuk268 said:

Wouldn't see any in Pompey then.

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Been using electric vehicles for ages there to be fair....

[Fan The Flames]

  On 30/06/2021 at 10:04, warsash saint said:

If it helps stop car use then surely it's gotta be a postive! Just ban under 17's from using them on public roads

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I think as a car alternative they will have marginal impact. I think they are an alternative to buses and bikes. 

My work mate has one, did the 7 miles to work and back a couple of times only and one of them was when we were going to the pub.

[The Cat]

  On 01/07/2021 at 12:19, ecuk268 said:

Wouldn't see any in Pompey then.

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They do have them, someone got killed after being knocked off one by a car. He wasn't on one of the council ones. 

[kyle04]

Anyone remember the Sinclair C5?

That went well....