The Euro2020 Thread

[Lighthouse]

39 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

All laws are based on what a portion of voters think. You never have absolute consensus

Still missing the point, it’s not about consensus. If something is a law, it’s a law for everyone and can be exploited as such.

Just look at the countries and people who already want/have censorship of SM, control over who uses it and access to the personal data of those people - Trump, China, most of the Middle East, The Taliban, North Korea, Turkmenistan - are these really the people you want to emulate?

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Yet again you don’t read what was sad and reply to what is going on in your own head! Provide evidence that I “scream everyone is racist”. You are so desperate to call out people who are against racism you constantly make a fool of yourself.

Yes, racists are in the minority, I have never, ever said otherwise. They are in the minority just as murderers and rapists are in the minority. It doesn’t mean that murders and rapes are not a serious problem does it?

Every single day people across this country are racially abused. Are you ok with that because the abusers are in the minority?

You spend a great deal of time and energy having a dig at those who are speaking out against racism. Why is that exactly? 

Despite Southgate, Rashford, Saka and Sancho all speaking out about the racial abuse that had been aimed at them, you demanded to see evidence. Their word not good enough for you? Why is that exactly?

What is encouraging us that more posters here are calling out people like you for what you are. The positive reaction to the defacing of Marcus Rashford’s mural has also been brilliant. Our PM, who is no stranger to making racist comments himself, has finally been pressured into doing more about it. Finally.
 

I agree with the post earlier that it is a shame that we are talking about this rather than the football, but when people boo players who are making their own stand against racism and whilst players still get racial abuse thrown at them, it needs to be fronted up. It would also help if people who swear blind they are not racist would stop attacking those speaking out against racism. It is not acceptable and defending the actions of those who do or trying to minimise the size of the problem by throwing the word minority around is not acceptable. The word minority does not mean it is less of a problem and does not make those on the end of the abuse feel any better about it. 
 

 

 

 

What the fuck are you driveling on about? 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

 

Yes, racists are in the minority, I have never, ever said otherwise. 

.........

It is not acceptable and defending the actions of those who do or trying to minimise the size of the problem by throwing the word minority around is not acceptable. The word minority does not mean it is less of a problem and does not make those on the end of the abuse feel any better about it. 

 

 

 

Mental 

Managing to contradict yourself in the same post is a fine art for sure!!

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Mental 

Managing to contradict yourself in the same post is a fine art for sure!!

I like the opening line. Coming from someone who repeatedly does them themselves was delicious. I soon lost interest after that as it was a typical pious soggy post that went on and on.The only thing missing was an accusation of being a tommy Robinson or trump fan.

Edited 14 July, 2021 by Turkish

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Still missing the point, it’s not about consensus. If something is a law, it’s a law for everyone and can be exploited as such.

Just look at the countries and people who already want/have censorship of SM, control over who uses it and access to the personal data of those people - Trump, China, most of the Middle East, The Taliban, North Korea, Turkmenistan - are these really the people you want to emulate?

I just disagree that policing racism is inevitably the thin end of the wedge. It is perfectly possible to draft a sensible law on online hate in the UK without turning us into China. We live in a democracy for a start, which acts as some protection from that sort of abuse of power.

We already police child pornography online, so it's not like the internet is totally free anyway. We can make sensible laws on online behaviour just like in any other aspect of society.

What we should be worried about is the government's plans to clamp down on peaceful protest - now that really is authoritarian

[sadoldgit]

47 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Mental 

Managing to contradict yourself in the same post is a fine art for sure!!

Where is the contradiction?  

[Turkish]

15 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Where is the contradiction?  

Been hitting the confused emoji again I seen 🤣

[Lighthouse]

25 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

We live in a democracy for a start, which acts as some protection from that sort of abuse of power

Yes, and I’d very much like to keep it that way. If you start controlling who uses social media, you’re eroding that protection. Every dictator in history has basically started off with controlling the media. The biggest differences between us and places like China or Russia is that we do have a free press and social media. It’s not always pretty, sometimes it’s downright disgusting, but it is free.

26 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

It is perfectly possible to draft a sensible law on online hate in the UK without turning us into China

It’s only possible IF you make it possible for somebody in authority to have access to the personal details of the user of every single account registered on social media. To say that’s easier said than done is the mother of all understatements. You can’t just apply that singularly to the U.K. either, a large amount of online abuse doesn’t even come from this country. 

27 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

What we should be worried about is the government's plans to clamp down on peaceful protest

It amounts to the same thing, it can be abused in the same way.

[Pedantic Pete]

Why don't they just not look at the comments on social media? Or use some of their millions to employ someone to block any dodgy message before they look at it?

Isn't that problem solved?

 

[OttawaSaint]

We’re going through something similar in Canada. Even though it’s been known for a while by many people the discovery of many mass burial sites of indigenous kids taken from their families and sent to residential schools to be whitewashed has increased the awareness of racism towards First Nations people in this country.

These headlines are news to some but a lot of it I said being met by statements such as “it can’t be that bad because this is the first I’ve heard of it” and the like.

I’m assuming many of us on this forum are white males. How can we say things like “oh it’s just a minority”, “don’t read those tweets etc”. We have no clue how it feels. What we need to do is listen to what the other races in our countries have to say and do better by calling out racist acts when we see/hear them.

Edited 14 July, 2021 by OttawaSaint

[Hawkswood]

14 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

I’m assuming many of us on this forum are white males. How can we say things like “oh it’s just a minority”, “don’t read those tweets etc”. We have no clue how it feels. 

Ive been reading this topic for the last few days and havent chipped in for reasons that Ill explain in a minute and was going to stay in the background til I read Ottawas comment, but what he said and what Ive highlighted is the reason  Im chipping in now. Im not sure Ive read every single post on this topic, so apologies if this has been said before or if Im being in any way unclear. My point is, reading the comments over the last few days I did wonder how many people on here have actually faced any racist abuse and what it actually feels like. I myself am from an ethnic minority ( jewish, since you ask). I think the argument Ive read on here - there have been too many to go into and I really can't be arsed to type them all - was the comment that " well, theyve been banging on about racism for nearly a year now and it hasnt done any good or its only got worse, maybe its best to say nothing".

I dont pretend to speak for all jews and certainly not for all ethnic minorities but I can say this with relative conviction. Racism should always be spoken about and as often as possible. Change doesnt come in one year or even 10. It can take generations, much the same was as attitudes to homosexuality has changed since the 70s. 

I read with a wry smile that the BLM movement is a marxist plot to blah blah blah......but to most people its just a very simple way to stand up and say that they believe whats happening is wrong. Its about standing shoulder to shoulder with different races and cultures and believing in decency, in humanity.  There may well be some darker aspects of the movement that preach something more sinister but for a lot of people thats just a deflection from what people are really, en masse, standing up for.

I would imagine not many of you would know or understand what its like to be hated or wanted dead for the colour of your skin or what bloodline youre born in to. It sometimes seems so abstract to me. Im an atheist, married a catholic, but many people still want me dead for something that supposedly happened 2000 years ago or about a nations foriegn policy to its next door neighbour that Im somehow to blame for. Anyway, sorry for prattling on and well done to any of you who made it to the end of this. Feel free to blame Ottawa.

[OttawaSaint]

4 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

 Feel free to blame Ottawa.

😂 

Oh boy...

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I just disagree that policing racism is inevitably the thin end of the wedge. It is perfectly possible to draft a sensible law on online hate in the UK without turning us into China. We live in a democracy for a start, which acts as some protection from that sort of abuse of power.

We already police child pornography online, so it's not like the internet is totally free anyway. We can make sensible laws on online behaviour just like in any other aspect of society.

What we should be worried about is the government's plans to clamp down on peaceful protest - now that really is authoritarian

What's the sensible law? I haven't seen it yet. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

We’re going through something similar in Canada. Even though it’s been known for a while by many people the discovery of many mass burial sites of indigenous kids taken from their families and sent to residential schools to be whitewashed has increased the awareness of racism towards First Nations people in this country.

These headlines are news to some but a lot of it I said being met by statements such as “it can’t be that bad because this is the first I’ve heard of it” and the like.

I’m assuming many of us on this forum are white males. How can we say things like “oh it’s just a minority”, “don’t read those tweets etc”. We have no clue how it feels. What we need to do is listen to what the other races in our countries have to say and do better by calling out racist acts when we see/hear them.

Vile and disgusting abuse on social media isn't the sole preserve of Black people you know. Some of the worst and most shocking stuff I've read has been against white males and women. 

[SaintBobby]

The bit that grates with me is that I just don't care about race. Ok, I'm white and middle class so maybe I just don't see racism or experience it.

When we lost the penalty shoot out against Italy, I was gutted. I hadn't considered any racial points (unless singing "You can shove your tagliatelle up your arse" on the tube is considered racist?). Then - although it wes a bit random -  I heard one guy say to his mates, "did you notice...the white guys scored and our whote goalkeeper saved the panlties, the 3 black guys missed". He did say "black guys". He didn't use the n-word. I just thought it was a weird way of looking at the world. Old fashioned, rather odd and with a slighlty worrying thing about "what comes next?"

All that said, I don't think racism in Britain is much of a problem. It exists. It's real. And people unlike me are on the receiving end of it.

Playing football in Qatar, where it looks to be literally the case that the bodies of slaves are buried under the pitch. Well, that is a pretty big problem.

I hope those taking the knee will adress it. I assume they will refuse to play in such a country. As well as eschewing any stadium or club that accepts any sponsorship from China, who seem to be practising something close to genocide at present.

If that's what taking the knee means, count me in.

If it's just a bit of virtue signalling without any tough decisions being made by those who do it, I call bullshit. Worse than that. Bullshit that deflects from massive, real and serious human rights abuses in the world. Being abused on Instagram is nasty. Not as nasty as China and Qatar. Not by a very long way.

Edited 15 July, 2021 by SaintBobby

[verlaine1979]

57 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

The bit that grates with me is that I just don't care about race. Ok, I'm white and middle class so maybe I just don't see racism or experience it.

When we lost the penalty shoot out against Italy, I was gutted. I hadn't considered any racial points (unless singing "You can shove your tagliatelle up your arse" on the tube is considered racist?). Then - although it wes a bit random -  I heard one guy say to his mates, "did you notice...the white guys scored and our whote goalkeeper saved the panlties, the 3 black guys missed". He did say "black guys". He didn't use the n-word. I just thought it was a weird way of looking at the world. Old fashioned, rather odd and with a slighlty worrying thing about "what comes next?"

All that said, I don't think racism in Britain is much of a problem. It exists. It's real. And people unlike me are on the receiving end of it.

Playing football in Qatar, where it looks to be literally the case that the bodies of slaves are buried under the pitch. Well, that is a pretty big problem.

I hope those taking the knee will adress it. I assume they will refuse to play in such a country. As well as eschewing any stadium or club that accepts any sponsorship from China, who seem to be practising something close to genocide at present.

If that's what taking the knee means, count me in.

If it's just a bit of virtue signalling without any tough decisions being made by those who do it, I call bullshit. Worse than that. Bullshit that deflects from massive, real and serious human rights abuses in the world. Being abused on Instagram is nasty. Not as nasty as China and Qatar. Not by a very long way.

Ah, so you'll listen to what Marcus Rashford has to say about racism *after* he rescues China's Uighur population from their current predicament. Makes sense.

I assume you were against Brexit on the principle that we should've been expending our energy bringing democracy to Saudi Arabia first, before we dealt with any trifling questions of parliamentary sovereignty at home?

[SaintBobby]

47 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

Ah, so you'll listen to what Marcus Rashford has to say about racism *after* he rescues China's Uighur population from their current predicament. Makes sense.

I assume you were against Brexit on the principle that we should've been expending our energy bringing democracy to Saudi Arabia first, before we dealt with any trifling questions of parliamentary sovereignty at home?

Wow. Some great leaps of logic there.

I listen to Marcus Rashford on politics with about as much seriousness as I listen to my Great Auntie Joan. And she has been dead for 15 years.

But if either he or her were to make a great stand of principle on something and get huge media coverage for doing so, I'd invite them to think through the logical conclusion of their argument.

If the case is "we need to get our own house in order before we worry about racism elsewhere," then I'm struggling to see how or why the murder of George Flloyd in Minnesota led to huge protests in London.

Also, I voted "Leave" in the 2016 referendum.

[Fan The Flames]

9 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Mental 

Managing to contradict yourself in the same post is a fine art for sure!!

It's not a contradiction, hope that helps.

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Where is the contradiction?  

I marked it in bold, how are you struggling to find it?

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, Pedantic Pete said:

Why don't they just not look at the comments on social media? Or use some of their millions to employ someone to block any dodgy message before they look at it?

Isn't that problem solved?

 

Indeed. Sticks and stones.... (before they appear, I know that 'some' of the comments are racist and 'some' of them are abusive and they shouldn't be happening, but barring a radical redesign of social media they aren't going to stop).

In the past we used to have just our national press available to throw the insults around!

 

[verlaine1979]

2 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Also, I voted "Leave" in the 2016 referendum.

No shit.

[skintsaint]

This thread really has gone off the rails 😅

[CB Fry]

9 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

This thread really has gone off the rails 😅

We've got to the stage where a group of lads getting to the first major final of most of our lifetimes, and being a couple of kicks away from winning it, is apparently comparable with Graham Taylor's disastrous Euro 92 campaign and his subsequent failure to get to USA 94.

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

We've got to the stage where a group of lads getting to the first major final of most of our lifetimes, and being a couple of kicks away from winning it, is apparently comparable with Graham Taylor's disastrous Euro 92 campaign and his subsequent failure to get to USA 94.

Huge leap as usual.

I guess some of us view the racism problem from different angles. Take Soggy for example who won't accept anything less than the total eradication of every single racist on the planet. Then, and only then, will the problem be solved.

Some of us are more realistic and accept that there will always be racists, some countries even condone racism and equality. For us, the problem is the mouthpiece that is afforded to the people with these abhorrent views and the proliferation of the abuse culture in social media. That is the wider issue that needs to be fixed.

Racists, like murderers and rapists are always going to exist, it is a pointless fight to try and eradicate them, but take away their mouth piece and you take away the biggest reason for them to spout their nonsense and achieve the reaction they currently achieve.

Nice to know that you condone the abuse that Taylor received though, I'm guessing he's fair game to you because he's white....

[CB Fry]

8 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Huge leap as usual.

I guess some of us view the racism problem from different angles. Take Soggy for example who won't accept anything less than the total eradication of every single racist on the planet. Then, and only then, will the problem be solved.

Some of us are more realistic and accept that there will always be racists, some countries even condone racism and equality. For us, the problem is the mouthpiece that is afforded to the people with these abhorrent views and the proliferation of the abuse culture in social media. That is the wider issue that needs to be fixed.

Racists, like murderers and rapists are always going to exist, it is a pointless fight to try and eradicate them, but take away their mouth piece and you take away the biggest reason for them to spout their nonsense and achieve the reaction they currently achieve.

Nice to know that you condone the abuse that Taylor received though, I'm guessing he's fair game to you because he's white....

It was your huge leap, not mine, sweetheart.

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Huge leap as usual.

I guess some of us view the racism problem from different angles. Take Soggy for example who won't accept anything less than the total eradication of every single racist on the planet. Then, and only then, will the problem be solved.

Some of us are more realistic and accept that there will always be racists, some countries even condone racism and equality. For us, the problem is the mouthpiece that is afforded to the people with these abhorrent views and the proliferation of the abuse culture in social media. That is the wider issue that needs to be fixed.

Racists, like murderers and rapists are always going to exist, it is a pointless fight to try and eradicate them, but take away their mouth piece and you take away the biggest reason for them to spout their nonsense and achieve the reaction they currently achieve.

Nice to know that you condone the abuse that Taylor received though, I'm guessing he's fair game to you because he's white....

Exactly that.

Racism exists and sadly it always will. We can't make everyone have normal views and behaviours. 

The knee / protests / out crying etc all highlight that racism should not be happening. Decent people know that already. Awareness that things are wrong does not stop wrong things from being done. 

I find it sad that righteous people on here have called people "apologists" etc for making the point that what we're doing isn't making things better, and won't. Acceptance that the solution isn't working isn't acceptance that the underlying issue is acceptable.

Moreover, as you say, the racists want a reaction and attention. They are getting that. Feed a troll and it comes back for more. Starve it and it dies. Platforms are an issue, but the public and media are giving the attention. The media's dishonesty and misrepresentation is also fuelling a fire - I'd wager that 90% of people think that there was racist words on that mural. Let's keep any debate respectful and honest. 

As to the underlying issue, I think it'll fade further in time. I think back to attitudes in the 80's on race, homosexuality and other issues. Fortunately we're a million miles from that. 

[Weston Super Saint]

19 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

It was your huge leap, not mine, sweetheart.

No surprise that you missed the actual point, but I'll spell it out for you....

In 1992 / 1994 there was no such thing as Twitter / social media. Whilst our football failures were undoubtedly subject to millions of incidences of abuse in pubs and bars up and down the country, the footballers themselves were largely shielded from the torrent of abuse because the general public had no mouthpiece.

They were of course subjected to plenty of abuse (racist or otherwise) in the national press, who did have a mouthpiece.

Like I've already pointed out, you seem wholely accepting of the personal abuse and bullying that Taylor received at the hands of the press, presumably because he was white. Imagine if the same thing had happened to Paul Ince...

[Mustapha Fag]

Love a good old politial debate on a football forum

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Mustapha Fag said:

Love a good old politial debate on a football forum

It's been the post euro debate in the football world. No reason why it wouldn't follow to a football forum. 

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, egg said:

It's been the post euro debate in the football world. No reason why it wouldn't follow to a football forum. 

In the Euro2020 thread!!

[Roo1976]

1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

This thread really has gone off the rails 😅

Well don't an awfully lot usually do when peoples opinions differ.

[CB Fry]

30 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

No surprise that you missed the actual point, but I'll spell it out for you....

In 1992 / 1994 there was no such thing as Twitter / social media. Whilst our football failures were undoubtedly subject to millions of incidences of abuse in pubs and bars up and down the country, the footballers themselves were largely shielded from the torrent of abuse because the general public had no mouthpiece.

They were of course subjected to plenty of abuse (racist or otherwise) in the national press, who did have a mouthpiece.

Like I've already pointed out, you seem wholely accepting of the personal abuse and bullying that Taylor received at the hands of the press, presumably because he was white. Imagine if the same thing had happened to Paul Ince...

"seem", "wholly", "presumably", "imagine".

Huge leap, as usual.

[nta786]

1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

This thread really has gone off the rails 😅

There has been more talk on all the ticketless Wembley fans and the racism abuse rather than the actual game we lost on pens. 

Perhaps we could try to shift attention onto 2022 WC - for my two cent's I genuinely think that when France won in '18, they beat Argentina, Uruguay, Belgium and then Croatia in the final.

The Italians this year beat Austria, Belgians, Spain then finally us to win the tournament.

I am not as confident for 2022 as a lot of the big pundits are. Will we be back? Because I think our mental resilience in big knockout games is damning. 

[Alanh]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Exactly that.

Racism exists and sadly it always will. We can't make everyone have normal views and behaviours. 

The knee / protests / out crying etc all highlight that racism should not be happening. Decent people know that already. Awareness that things are wrong does not stop wrong things from being done. 

I find it sad that righteous people on here have called people "apologists" etc for making the point that what we're doing isn't making things better, and won't. Acceptance that the solution isn't working isn't acceptance that the underlying issue is acceptable.

Moreover, as you say, the racists want a reaction and attention. They are getting that. Feed a troll and it comes back for more. Starve it and it dies. Platforms are an issue, but the public and media are giving the attention. The media's dishonesty and misrepresentation is also fuelling a fire - I'd wager that 90% of people think that there was racist words on that mural. Let's keep any debate respectful and honest. 

As to the underlying issue, I think it'll fade further in time. I think back to attitudes in the 80's on race, homosexuality and other issues. Fortunately we're a million miles from that. 

Agree with some of this post, but disagree with the bits in bold.  Firstly, I don't think racists want the attention.  They just think that using racist language is an OK way to express themselves.  I doubt that many of them are looking for likes on social media after posting monkey emojis.

Secondly, hilighting an issue through a confrontational, but peaceful action resulting in it being raised up the agenda of national debate is a perfectly valid democratic way to adress an injustice or societal issue.  Taking the knee, calling out racist behaviours, calling out the Home Secretary etc bring the issue to the fore, get it discussed and ultimately reinforce the message that racist behaviour is socially unacceptable.  'Normal' people know that already, but little by little those who currently think it is OK / just a bit of banter etc, will finally get to realise that it's not.

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I marked it in bold, how are you struggling to find it?

Because that is not a contradiction. Perhaps you marked the wrong bit or perhaps you don’t understand what contradiction means?

As for wanting to eradicate every single racist, perhaps you would be kind enough to copy and paste and put in bold where I have said that. Why you and others have do put words into others mouths I just don’t understand. 
 

I will make it easy for you. I like most normal decent people, want to live in a world where people treat each other with basic respect. I expect anti social behaviour to be dealt with and not tolerated. I don’t expect for one minute that murder, sexual assault, theft, abuse etc will every be eradicated. That doesn’t mean that they should be just accepted and tolerated. Where they occur they should be dealt with. Do you seriously have a problem with any of that? If you are against racism, why would you be ok with the booing of a bunch of footballers who are making a stand against it? If you are against racism why would you spend all day having a pop at people who support 3 of our own players who have been racially abused when representing their country in a sporting event?
I suggest that you and your like minded buddies on here have a good look at your motives when posting on social media because, from what I am reading, you are part of the problem. 

[austsaint]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Because that is not a contradiction. Perhaps you marked the wrong bit or perhaps you don’t understand what contradiction means?

As for wanting to eradicate every single racist, perhaps you would be kind enough to copy and paste and put in bold where I have said that. Why you and others have do put words into others mouths I just don’t understand. 
 

I will make it easy for you. I like most normal decent people, want to live in a world where people treat each other with basic respect. I expect anti social behaviour to be dealt with and not tolerated. I don’t expect for one minute that murder, sexual assault, theft, abuse etc will every be eradicated. That doesn’t mean that they should be just accepted and tolerated. Where they occur they should be dealt with. Do you seriously have a problem with any of that? If you are against racism, why would you be ok with the booing of a bunch of footballers who are making a stand against it? If you are against racism why would you spend all day having a pop at people who support 3 of our own players who have been racially abused when representing their country in a sporting event?
I suggest that you and your like minded buddies on here have a good look at your motives when posting on social media because, from what I am reading, you are part of the problem. 

I've got a new found respect for you "sad old".  Don't burn yourself out trying to contest all the muck flying around.

[Turkish]

11 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Because that is not a contradiction. Perhaps you marked the wrong bit or perhaps you don’t understand what contradiction means?

As for wanting to eradicate every single racist, perhaps you would be kind enough to copy and paste and put in bold where I have said that. Why you and others have do put words into others mouths I just don’t understand. 
 

I will make it easy for you. I like most normal decent people, want to live in a world where people treat each other with basic respect. I expect anti social behaviour to be dealt with and not tolerated. I don’t expect for one minute that murder, sexual assault, theft, abuse etc will every be eradicated. That doesn’t mean that they should be just accepted and tolerated. Where they occur they should be dealt with. Do you seriously have a problem with any of that? If you are against racism, why would you be ok with the booing of a bunch of footballers who are making a stand against it? If you are against racism why would you spend all day having a pop at people who support 3 of our own players who have been racially abused when representing their country in a sporting event?
I suggest that you and your like minded buddies on here have a good look at your motives when posting on social media because, from what I am reading, you are part of the problem. 

Beautiful soggy, just beautiful

I'd like to build the world a home a furnish it with love.....

[Fan The Flames]

Team SOG

[egg]

45 minutes ago, Alanh said:

Agree with some of this post, but disagree with the bits in bold.  Firstly, I don't think racists want the attention.  They just think that using racist language is an OK way to express themselves.  I doubt that many of them are looking for likes on social media after posting monkey emojis.

Secondly, hilighting an issue through a confrontational, but peaceful action resulting in it being raised up the agenda of national debate is a perfectly valid democratic way to adress an injustice or societal issue.  Taking the knee, calling out racist behaviours, calling out the Home Secretary etc bring the issue to the fore, get it discussed and ultimately reinforce the message that racist behaviour is socially unacceptable.  'Normal' people know that already, but little by little those who currently think it is OK / just a bit of banter etc, will finally get to realise that it's not.

Thanks for that, decent response.

I query where reinforcing the message that racist  behavior is socially unacceptable take us. As you say, normal people know that already, thus the only purpose could be to drill the message home to those that don't get it. That, in reality, involves a shift in mindset in those kind of people and is taking the knee etc really going to do that? I just don't see it but this approach looks like its here to stay and hopefully you're correct.

On your first part, these idiots are absolutely looking for a reaction. They're doing it to cause offence, upset, distress - that's the whole purpose of harassment and abuse. They know that they're succeeding, and on a huge scale. Your view is different to mine and I respect that, but I feel that the constant focus is a double edged sword.

  

[Turkish]

This was sent to me. Is this racist? 

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

This was sent to me. Is this racist? 

No, happy to help.

[Kingsland Codger]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

This was sent to me. Is this racist? 

Belotti and Jorginho should have been included.

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

This was sent to me. Is this racist? 

A 12 man firing squad was used in WW1 so you need to include Southgate , Ince , Waddle , Pearce etc . It’s in keeping with Blackadder humour though.

Not sure what your point is ? 

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

A 12 man firing squad was used in WW1 so you need to include Southgate , Ince , Waddle , Pearce etc . It’s in keeping with Blackadder humour though.

Not sure what your point is ? 

It’s insulting black men. Why isn’t it racist? Why are they singling out black players?

[Turkish]

36 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

No, happy to help.

Please can you explain why?

[Verbal]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s insulting black men. Why isn’t it racist? Why are they singling out black players?

It's only 'insulting black men' to a racist who sees the colour of their skin first - oh look, that's you.  To others the joke is that they missed. 

[saint1977]

18 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Millions of bans and GCHQ investigations for what the guardian reported today was 140 or so overt racist posts on social media, the majority or which originated overseas? And you call others extremists? 

Domestic arrests as well - Manchester, Leyton Orient and Wolves, and some from E Hants pending investigation as you probably saw as well.

MI5 threat briefing yesterday now listing domestic far right extremism as second biggest threat now to UK security - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/right-wing-extremism-terrorism-violence-uk-mi5-ken-mccallum-b1039501.html

Says that whilst there is some activity from Russia etc, that it is too easy to write off or dismiss the domestic threat as bots from overseas. Also states that racism proving a fuel for this online and recruitment by extremists is starting increasing younger, as young as 13. 

[Turkish]

21 minutes ago, Verbal said:

It's only 'insulting black men' to a racist who sees the colour of their skin first - oh look, that's you.  To others the joke is that they missed. 

Okay, ignoring the personal dig, when the Rashford graffiti which said "shit in a bucket" and "fuck Sancho" was reported as racist with people screaming racism about it, then everyone who said that was racist must have seen skin first too. Oh look, thats you, Soggy, aintclever and all the other self righteous ones. Thanks for proving my point. 👏

[Turkish]

22 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Domestic arrests as well - Manchester, Leyton Orient and Wolves, and some from E Hants pending investigation as you probably saw as well.

MI5 threat briefing yesterday now listing domestic far right extremism as second biggest threat now to UK security - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/right-wing-extremism-terrorism-violence-uk-mi5-ken-mccallum-b1039501.html

Says that whilst there is some activity from Russia etc, that it is too easy to write off or dismiss the domestic threat as bots from overseas. Also states that racism proving a fuel for this online and recruitment by extremists is starting increasing younger, as young as 13. 

Taking the knee is working, right?

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

It’s insulting black men. Why isn’t it racist? Why are they singling out black players?

They are singling out the ones that didn't score in the penalty shoot out. The colour of their skin is not mentioned.