The Euro2020 Thread

[East Kent Saint]

Social media companies have to be reclassified as publishers as they have been threatened with , that way , like all other media , newspapers TV etc , they become liable for what they publish . Now that would improve thier focus on how to prevent abuse on their platform .

[SaintBobby]

I think I'm in favour of the media sharing examples of the online attacks on the players. It's a difficult call, but when the BBC simply report "racial abuse", this is hard to get an exact handle on. That could be anything on the spectrum from unpleasant to utterly horrific. Everything on that spectrum is bad, but exactly where it is on the spectrum is surely meaningful?

[sydney_saint]

10 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I think it's right to make a point of those who post the abhorrent trash on social media, I think it's got better (in the sense that the more obvious types have reduced.) but given there is heightened attention to it now even a few posts by spam accounts will get the headlines too.

The sad thing is that the individuals posting above are most likely duff accounts, people sat behind spam accounts posting whatever they want. They'll close that account down tomorrow, start a new one up and get themselves a new VPN IP and away they go. Sadly the internet is a scary place and the tools for anonymising make it very easy for these few trolls to accomplish what they want. I wouldn't say they are even posting out of pure racial hatred either, it's just to get a rise and some attention.

The same types are also busy on other peoples accounts fat shaming people or taking the piss out of disabilities etc. The internet and social media is a dark, dark murky place. It's very hard to police due to the laws within different countries and the ways you can anonymise yourself, but I think the approach of highlighting is going to weed out the more naive social media users - but sadly you will always have those trolls who specialise in setting up multiple accounts every day, just to bash others for a rise.

The thing is, it isn't just social media. I mentioned on another post. But when watching the England Denmark, a group of drunk lads next to us called my friend a gorilla, made noises at her, and then tried to pass the buck by just saying it was banter, because she dared to get upset. This was devastating to see. This is real life and real people. And sure, it was a small minority in a pub. Does that mean we should just ignore it?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/14/portsmouth-investigate-racist-posts-allegedly-sent-by-academy-players-under-18s-england

[East Kent Saint]

16 hours ago, SKD said:

Yep. It said ‘fuck sancho’ then ‘shit in a bucket (or basket) Bastard’ under the photo of Rashford. 

Absolutely not racist and my bet is it was an angry City fan (I mean if a skate had cost us the tournament, you’d probably see the same). 

There’s a reason why the only images shared are those of it covered up. 

Was it reported as racist ? Or that the fact the mural had been defaced ? Either way your argument is pretty thin and your hint at a conspiracy is wrong as well ! Ha Ha .

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

I think I'm in favour of the media sharing examples of the online attacks on the players. It's a difficult call, but when the BBC simply report "racial abuse", this is hard to get an exact handle on. That could be anything on the spectrum from unpleasant to utterly horrific. Everything on that spectrum is bad, but exactly where it is on the spectrum is surely meaningful?

Agreed. That's kind of the point i was making as well. It was reporting racist abuse but there are levels of racist abuse. in my mind writting "Rashford sh1t in a bucket" on a wall is not racist abuse. Posting images of monkeys on social media is, very childish but still racist then there is truly nasty stuff. It's a dangerous route when any abuse of a black person is considered racist, but i believe that's the route that we are going down. Surely by definition racist is abuse is abusing someone because of skin colour or race, not because they did something and happen to be black/asian etc with no reference to this at all.

[East Kent Saint]

14 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

From New Statesman

 

“Sanjay Bhandari, chair of Kick It Out, the campaign group against racism in football, says that data from the last two seasons of football shows around 70 per cent of abuse originates overseas. “These are not football fans,” he says. “They are people who have never been inside an English football ground.” In part that’s because – while our problem with racism is acute – we don’t have a monopoly on being morons. Italian and French football fans are as likely, if not more likely, to abuse black players with monkey emojis.”

No it’s going along with the totally corrupt FIFA decision to stage the WC there in 50 C heat thanks to Blatter . Remember the £23M that we spent to stage the WC that we were never going to get ?

[East Kent Saint]

20 hours ago, SKD said:

Yes, I agree. But why not the outcry there would be if this was a group of white men singing this? 
 

 

It’s just banter you fool ……..

[Jeremy Corbyn]

48 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/14/portsmouth-investigate-racist-posts-allegedly-sent-by-academy-players-under-18s-england

Will be interesting to see how the racist sympathisers on here defend this.

[East Kent Saint]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Agreed. That's kind of the point i was making as well. It was reporting racist abuse but there are levels of racist abuse. in my mind writting "Rashford sh1t in a bucket" on a wall is not racist abuse. Posting images of monkeys on social media is, very childish but still racist then there is truly nasty stuff. It's a dangerous route when any abuse of a black person is considered racist, but i believe that's the route that we are going down. Surely by definition racist is abuse is abusing someone because of skin colour or race, not because they did something and happen to be black/asian etc with no reference to this at all.

It wasn’t reported as racist abuse just that the mural had been been defaced so your point is Mr Wrong ! The fact that the deniers think that other people have called it racist is when it wasn’t is part of Boris’s counter culture to deny racism . 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

It wasn’t reported as racist abuse just that the mural had been been defaced so your point is Mr Wrong ! The fact that the deniers think that other people have called it racist is when it wasn’t is part of Boris’s counter culture to deny racism . 

Why are BLM demonstrating by the mural then? 

[sydney_saint]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Agreed. That's kind of the point i was making as well. It was reporting racist abuse but there are levels of racist abuse. in my mind writting "Rashford sh1t in a bucket" on a wall is not racist abuse. Posting images of monkeys on social media is, very childish but still racist then there is truly nasty stuff. It's a dangerous route when any abuse of a black person is considered racist, but i believe that's the route that we are going down. Surely by definition racist is abuse is abusing someone because of skin colour or race, not because they did something and happen to be black/asian etc with no reference to this at all.

I get what you are saying, and no one should be above criticism. And that not all abuse of a black Asian person etc is inherently racist.

On the mural, I agree that it may not be racist. It may or may not have had racist motivations, we don't know. But I also think it is not that important in this particular case. The site has become a symbol of the wider abuse he received, and isn't just focused on that one particular incident. Even assuming it was general abuse and not linked to racism, I don't see what's wrong with using the site to condemn the racist abuse he received from other areas?

Sharing is a tricky one. Of course, you want to see proof. That is understandable. That said, overly sharing the images can impact other peoples mental health quite significantly. Imagine you are a black club footballer who used to have racist chants and comments etc. And all of a sudden there are widely shared screenshots everywhere of racist abuse similar to what you went through. It can induce all sorts of issues, from pain to panic attacks. It really is a careful line 

[East Kent Saint]

You 

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Why are BLM demonstrating by the mural then? 

They are supporting Rashford as a role model who has made it and wants to help people, like himself , who are poor and hungry as they grow up .

[supersonic]

27 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Will be interesting to see how the racist sympathisers on here defend this.

They'll conveniently ignore it, just like the mountain of evidence that is online in regards to the racial abuse of footballers and systematic racism

[SKD]

34 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

It wasn’t reported as racist abuse just that the mural had been been defaced so your point is Mr Wrong ! The fact that the deniers think that other people have called it racist is when it wasn’t is part of Boris’s counter culture to deny racism . 

It took me 20 seconds to find this, so it looks like you’re ‘Mr Wrong’.. whoops. 
 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/protesters-gather-marcus-rashford-mural-24528155.amp?__twitter_impression=true

[SKD]

25 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

You 

They are supporting Rashford as a role model who has made it and wants to help people, like himself , who are poor and hungry as they grow up .

What has what to do with BLM, by the way? 
 

As I’ve said, if a skate had done a ridiculous run up and fucked it for us in a final, and continently had a mural in our city, do you  it think that’d also be defaced? 

[SKD]

41 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Will be interesting to see how the racist sympathisers on here defend this.

Indefensible, deserve the sack and to not be picked up by another club. 
 

Silly boys, very silly boys. 

[aintforever]

38 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Why are BLM demonstrating by the mural then? 

To show support for someone who has suffered racial abuse. Fuck me it's not rocket science .

[saint1977]

9 minutes ago, supersonic said:

They'll conveniently ignore it, just like the mountain of evidence that is online in regards to the racial abuse of footballers and systematic racism

They can’t ignore this though - quantitative evidence in droves and clearly racist content. Well they can, but we just ignore those posters  instead. 

https://inews.co.uk/news/technology/instagram-racist-abuse-posts-england-players-after-euros-1102896 

Really poor from Instagram - I’d punish the overall platform for poor moderation and management of content with a huge fine - hundreds of millions at minimum - and prosecution for enabling extremist content. Where’s Nick Clegg, is he still employed by Facebook? Get him in front of the one of the All Party Parliamentary Groups next week and turn the screw. 

Facebook and co fled Australia but they need to clean up their act somewhere. It’ll drive the worst extremists underground but we have GCHQ to pursue them. Cleaning up the platforms overall and millions of bans will mean at least the overwhelming majority of us normal people who aren’t violent far right or far left thugs can use the internet safely. 

[SKD]

1 hour ago, East Kent Saint said:

It’s just banter you fool ……..

fair, let’s get it going at Wembley next game for white guys to take pens as they can score. 

I wonder how funny it’d be if it was the other way, you fool….

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/councillor-arrested-over-alleged-whites-24529338.amp?__twitter_impression=true

‘it’s just banter you fool …..’

Edited 14 July, 2021 by SKD

[Lord Duckhunter]

10 minutes ago, supersonic said:

They'll conveniently ignore it,

Just like Mings, Southgate, the rest of the players, the woke press, the BBC, ITV, Sky , the  woke warriors up and down the country, and you, will conveniently ignore the racism & homophobia of the World Cup hosts.
 

Theyll jump onto the bandwagon of condemning a few sad sacks, whilst getting ready to join the jamboree in Qatar. They show how much they abhor racism by talking about how much they abhor racism. They fight against all forms of discrimination by telling everyone how much they dislike it. Talk is free, doesn’t cost  money or a World Cup trip. They won’t fight discrimination if it means missing out on that particular trip. The fight for justice doesn’t quite mean enough to start sacrificing that. 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Just like Mings, Southgate, the rest of the players, the woke press, the BBC, ITV, Sky , the  woke warriors up and down the country, and you, will conveniently ignore the racism & homophobia of the World Cup hosts.
 

Theyll jump onto the bandwagon of condemning a few sad sacks, whilst getting ready to join the jamboree in Qatar. They show how much they abhor racism by talking about how much they abhor racism. They fight against all forms of discrimination by telling everyone how much they dislike it. Talk is free, doesn’t cost  money or a World Cup trip. They won’t fight discrimination if it means missing out on that particular trip. The fight for justice doesn’t quite mean enough to start sacrificing that. 

You're entire argument is that you shouldn't fight against some racism if you don't fight against all wrongdoing in the world.  To have the confidence of someone who doesn't understand basic logic!

[aintforever]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Just like Mings, Southgate, the rest of the players, the woke press, the BBC, ITV, Sky , the  woke warriors up and down the country, and you, will conveniently ignore the racism & homophobia of the World Cup hosts.
 

Theyll jump onto the bandwagon of condemning a few sad sacks, whilst getting ready to join the jamboree in Qatar. They show how much they abhor racism by talking about how much they abhor racism. They fight against all forms of discrimination by telling everyone how much they dislike it. Talk is free, doesn’t cost  money or a World Cup trip. They won’t fight discrimination if it means missing out on that particular trip. The fight for justice doesn’t quite mean enough to start sacrificing that. 

How do you know they won't use their time there in a constructive way to promote an anti-racist/homophobic message?

Whatever they do no doubt you Gammons will boo them.

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

How do you know they won't use their time there in a constructive way to promote an anti-racist/homophobic message?

Whatever they do no doubt you Gammons will boo them.

“We stand against racism / Homophobia” whilst playing in a tournament hosted by and raises the economy / profile of a nation who’s government actively encourages it. 

a bit hypocritical, don’t you think? 
 

Duck is right, if these PR ‘Role Models’ had any balls, they’d boycott. As soon as one player did and got a positive media reaction, you can bet your Mortage that more would follow. 

[saint1977]

13 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Just like Mings, Southgate, the rest of the players, the woke press, the BBC, ITV, Sky , the  woke warriors up and down the country, and you, will conveniently ignore the racism & homophobia of the World Cup hosts.
 

Theyll jump onto the bandwagon of condemning a few sad sacks, whilst getting ready to join the jamboree in Qatar. They show how much they abhor racism by talking about how much they abhor racism. They fight against all forms of discrimination by telling everyone how much they dislike it. Talk is free, doesn’t cost  money or a World Cup trip. They won’t fight discrimination if it means missing out on that particular trip. The fight for justice doesn’t quite mean enough to start sacrificing that. 

The players of major nations may well boycott, I hope so. The stadiums may not be ready - there’s been lots of reports of appalling treatment of construction workers for example - and a different FIFA regime (not much hope I know) might fail Qatar on their inspection. The political climate externally and hopefully in FIFA - in very different to 10/11 years ago when the award was made. Colombia were supposed to be 1986 hosts and failed to be ready, Mexico stepped in. Could happen again. Athens nearly lost the Olympics the same way. 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

44 minutes ago, SKD said:

“We stand against racism / Homophobia” whilst playing in a tournament hosted by and raises the economy / profile of a nation who’s government actively encourages it. 

a bit hypocritical, don’t you think? 
 

Duck is right, if these PR ‘Role Models’ had any balls, they’d boycott. As soon as one player did and got a positive media reaction, you can bet your Mortage that more would follow. 

Maybe they should, I think most people in this country are a bit uncomfortable with Qatar hosting it.  However, that doesn't make any of the anti-racism stuff any less relevant.  Calling out hypocrisy is the last argument when someone doesn't actually have any decent points to make.

[SKD]

24 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Maybe they should, I think most people in this country are a bit uncomfortable with Qatar hosting it.  However, that doesn't make any of the anti-racism stuff any less relevant.  Calling out hypocrisy is the last argument when someone doesn't actually have any decent points to make.

Of course it does. Actions speak louder than words.

Take the knee, wear rainbow laces, flags and shirts (or other token gestures) all you like, if you have a chance to take a stand but still participate in an event hosted by a nation which isn’t fit to be in the 21st century, then you’re part of the problem. 

[East Kent Saint]

It’s a bit early for players to boycott Qatar if they haven’t been pick yet LD !

 

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

fair, let’s get it going at Wembley next game for white guys to take pens as they can score. 

I wonder how funny it’d be if it was the other way, you fool….

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/councillor-arrested-over-alleged-whites-24529338.amp?__twitter_impression=true

‘it’s just banter you fool …..’

The banter comment was ironic  , pointing out that “It’s only banter” is the usual defence of the people making the hateful/racist/sexist comment. 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

18 minutes ago, SKD said:

Of course it does. Actions speak louder than words.

Take the knee, wear rainbow laces, flags and shirts (or other token gestures) all you like, if you have a chance to take a stand but still participate in an event hosted by a nation which isn’t fit to be in the 21st century, then you’re part of the problem. 

Well 1. We're 18 months away from Qatar so you're speculating, you can't just say "their current actions are crap because they might not do something in the future" and 2. this is just pure whataboutery, you can't disagree with someone's actions by bringing up something not really related.

[sydney_saint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Just like Mings, Southgate, the rest of the players, the woke press, the BBC, ITV, Sky , the  woke warriors up and down the country, and you, will conveniently ignore the racism & homophobia of the World Cup hosts.
 

Theyll jump onto the bandwagon of condemning a few sad sacks, whilst getting ready to join the jamboree in Qatar. They show how much they abhor racism by talking about how much they abhor racism. They fight against all forms of discrimination by telling everyone how much they dislike it. Talk is free, doesn’t cost  money or a World Cup trip. They won’t fight discrimination if it means missing out on that particular trip. The fight for justice doesn’t quite mean enough to start sacrificing that. 

It's a weird group to throw together. If you think ITV and Sky will by absolute hypocrites on this. Then no shit. They are corporate greedy monsters who jump on any bandwagon if they think they can make some bucks. Nobody really believes for a second they genuinely believe in these campaigns. 

What you call 'woke warriors' (which is an odd way of describing people that actively oppose racism but whatever) are highly likely to be against the Qatar World Cup. I absolutely am. There are also many organisations and outlets highlighting both the discriminations and working conditions and slavery. Look at reports from Amnesty and the Guardian trying to drive home the point. 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2016/03/qatar-world-cup-of-shame/

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022

I will be extremely disappointed if none of the English footballers do speak out. There are signs that some might break ranks of this, and once a few go, hopefully lots will go. And you are right, if they don't then it is pretty hypocritical. There is still a long way to go and I sincerely hope momentum builds to oppose it. It has threatened to, but it does need a couple of serious figureheads (footballers) to really have an impact.

But. It still doesn't excuse the racism here. 

 

[Alanh]

To anyone on this forum who says that taking the knee and the players stances on sodial media achieve nothing, just think, without it there is little chance that the issue would have been discussed on here across multiple threads during this summer.  The subject wouldn't have been a significant consideration going into the new season.

Perhaps some people who hadn't ever thought about the issue before have seen some other sides of the argument and if the result of this is that fewer (hopefully zero) racial slurs are thrown at Nathan Tella or Nathan Redmond, or Mo Salisu, or KWP, or any other black players, Saints or opposition then that is an achievement.  If that is multiplied across the country then progress will have been made.  That will be more prgress IMO than Kick It Out ever achieved.

[SFC Forever]

The government has several options available to them to try to ease this problem. They could fine the media giants for every abusive post found. Not just racist but all forms of abuse. They can also try persuading other companies (FA, FIFA,EPL, EFL) etcetera to open their own sites for fans to mix. 

I would willingly pay £5 to register to a well run site. I know I cancelled my full membership on here because of total frustration at thing posted by some. I like this site because it often gives us info that our competition then copies. The fee though small would surely be enough to bring an interested player to check out the possibility and feasibility of such an idea.

 

[Baird of the land]

37 minutes ago, SFC Forever said:

The government has several options available to them to try to ease this problem. They could fine the media giants for every abusive post found. Not just racist but all forms of abuse. They can also try persuading other companies (FA, FIFA,EPL, EFL) etcetera to open their own sites for fans to mix. 

 

Who decides what's abusive?  We've just had a massive pushback over the activists trying to cancel people for legitimate views on gender.

Financially motivating companies to implement blocks on free speech(which is what you are proposing) to tackle a tiny minority of trolls and racists seems a very bad idea imo. 

[supersonic]

2 hours ago, Alanh said:

To anyone on this forum who says that taking the knee and the players stances on sodial media achieve nothing, just think, without it there is little chance that the issue would have been discussed on here across multiple threads during this summer.  The subject wouldn't have been a significant consideration going into the new season.

Perhaps some people who hadn't ever thought about the issue before have seen some other sides of the argument and if the result of this is that fewer (hopefully zero) racial slurs are thrown at Nathan Tella or Nathan Redmond, or Mo Salisu, or KWP, or any other black players, Saints or opposition then that is an achievement.  If that is multiplied across the country then progress will have been made.  That will be more prgress IMO than Kick It Out ever achieved.

Exactly this. It's started the conversation on race and that can only be a good thing.

Too many people don't like BLM/taking the knee, but apparently everyone loved Kick It Out which, although it sounded good, was ineffective. It did nothing to actually stop discrimination and never challenged anyone, it allows people to be comfortable.

The reason people don't like the current anti-racism campaign is because, for the first time in history there's a campaign that challenges behaviours and traits that people have grown comfortable with and have never previously been questioned and their conscience feels uncomfortable with that.

They, of course, won't admit this, yet hide behind the "Marxist" argument, despite it being painfully obvious to everyone taking the knee is to promote equality and inclusion.

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Exactly this. It's started the conversation on race and that can only be a good thing.

Too many people don't like BLM/taking the knee, but apparently everyone loved Kick It Out which, although it sounded good, was ineffective. It did nothing to actually stop discrimination and never challenged anyone, it allows people to be comfortable.

The reason people don't like the current anti-racism campaign is because, for the first time in history there's a campaign that challenges behaviours and traits that people have grown comfortable with and have never previously been questioned and their conscience feels uncomfortable with that.

They, of course, won't admit this, yet hide behind the "Marxist" argument, despite it being painfully obvious to everyone taking the knee is to promote equality and inclusion.

Neither has BLM…. evidently. 

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

It wasn’t reported as racist abuse just that the mural had been been defaced so your point is Mr Wrong ! The fact that the deniers think that other people have called it racist is when it wasn’t is part of Boris’s counter culture to deny racism . 

Really?

Hundreds descend on defaced Marcus Rashford mural to decry racist grafitti - Independent

Love in the face of hate: Mancunians leave hearts and messages on Rashford mural after it's defaced by racist - Manchester Evening news

Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said they were called at 2.50am on Monday to reports of the racially aggravated damage to the mural. - Sky.com

Protesters take the knee by Marcus Rashford mural after it was defaced with racist graffiti - Daily Mirror

There are plenty more but I think you get the point that your claim that it 'wasn't reported as racist abuse' is complete horseshit!

[Jeremy Corbyn]

3 minutes ago, SKD said:

Neither has BLM…. evidently. 

Different argument, but the taking the knee stuff has made a huge difference.  It's highlighted who the closet racists are, which is useful.

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, supersonic said:

Exactly this. It's started the conversation on race and that can only be a good thing.

Too many people don't like BLM/taking the knee, but apparently everyone loved Kick It Out which, although it sounded good, was ineffective. It did nothing to actually stop discrimination and never challenged anyone, it allows people to be comfortable.

The reason people don't like the current anti-racism campaign is because, for the first time in history there's a campaign that challenges behaviours and traits that people have grown comfortable with and have never previously been questioned and their conscience feels uncomfortable with that.

They, of course, won't admit this, yet hide behind the "Marxist" argument, despite it being painfully obvious to everyone taking the knee is to promote equality and inclusion.

IMHO the name/slogan 'Black Lives Matter' was always going to grate with people out there. It is obvious that people believe all lives matter, thinking why are black lives more important. Of course it wasnt that Black lives matter more, but that is how I think people perceived it the slogan as. Add to that the more extreme political side of this movement seemingly taking it over.

I have no problem people taking the knee ( I personally wont as I dont think I need to)but I wonder if a lot of the players are taking the knee due to peer pressure. Not that they are racist. In my own business I put up a picture on Instagram of the 3 players were abused saying that I was proud them wearing the England shirt, and had only one follower who complained I had made a political statement.

Change the name and Iam sure there would be a better response. 

It is time for social media to be sorted out so such pigs can be caught/shamed. I suggest the 2 or 3 who have been found have now a lifetime to realise their studidity and their liveswill never be the same again

 

[Toadhall Saint]

10 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Exactly this. It's started the conversation on race and that can only be a good thing.

Too many people don't like BLM/taking the knee, but apparently everyone loved Kick It Out which, although it sounded good, was ineffective. It did nothing to actually stop discrimination and never challenged anyone, it allows people to be comfortable.

The reason people don't like the current anti-racism campaign is because, for the first time in history there's a campaign that challenges behaviours and traits that people have grown comfortable with and have never previously been questioned and their conscience feels uncomfortable with that.

They, of course, won't admit this, yet hide behind the "Marxist" argument, despite it being painfully obvious to everyone taking the knee is to promote equality and inclusion.

Rock against racism back in the late 70’s early 80’s challenged people’s thinking and that was when racism really had no boundaries - thankfully things have moved on considerably since then and hopefully one day the colour of someone’s skin won’t be used against them.

 

 

 

 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

8 minutes ago, OldNick said:

IMHO the name/slogan 'Black Lives Matter' was always going to grate with people out there. It is obvious that people believe all lives matter, thinking why are black lives more important. Of course it wasnt that Black lives matter more, but that is how I think people perceived it the slogan as. Add to that the more extreme political side of this movement seemingly taking it over.

I have no problem people taking the knee ( I personally wont as I dont think I need to)but I wonder if a lot of the players are taking the knee due to peer pressure. Not that they are racist. In my own business I put up a picture on Instagram of the 3 players were abused saying that I was proud them wearing the England shirt, and had only one follower who complained I had made a political statement.

Change the name and Iam sure there would be a better response. 

It is time for social media to be sorted out so such pigs can be caught/shamed. I suggest the 2 or 3 who have been found have now a lifetime to realise their studidity and their liveswill never be the same again

 

Anyone who thinks that after reading the term "Black Lives Matter" must be considered legally incapacitated.

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, SKD said:

Of course it does. Actions speak louder than words.

Take the knee, wear rainbow laces, flags and shirts (or other token gestures) all you like, if you have a chance to take a stand but still participate in an event hosted by a nation which isn’t fit to be in the 21st century, then you’re part of the problem. 

Absolutely.

Once upon a time we used to take a stand against countries who persecuted their own citizens : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Apartheid_Movement

A simple statement from the FA stating that in the current climate, we cannot support Qatar and it's systemic use of labour abuse and exploitation and are therefore boycotting the World Cup if it goes ahead in that country, should be more than enough to show that we are a country that takes persecution seriously and not one that just pands to popular opinion.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/qatar/report-qatar/

Won't happen though as money talks....

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, aintforever said:

How do you know they won't use their time there in a constructive way to promote an anti-racist/homophobic message?

 

Just like they did in Russia?
 

They’re going to be playing in stadiums built using slave labour and you can’t see the hypocrisy in that? 

 

Words are easy, cheap digs at the home sec or Boris ten a penny, condemning a few sad sacks & bots is just meaningless gestures. Let’s see how many stand up and be counted, let’s see how many will refuse to join the jamboree  in a country 100 times more racist & homophobic than England ever is. My betting is it’ll be somewhere between 0 and 0  

 

 

 

Edited 14 July, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[supersonic]

37 minutes ago, OldNick said:

IMHO the name/slogan 'Black Lives Matter' was always going to grate with people out there. It is obvious that people believe all lives matter, thinking why are black lives more important. Of course it wasnt that Black lives matter more, but that is how I think people perceived it the slogan as. Add to that the more extreme political side of this movement seemingly taking it over.

I have no problem people taking the knee ( I personally wont as I dont think I need to)but I wonder if a lot of the players are taking the knee due to peer pressure. Not that they are racist. In my own business I put up a picture on Instagram of the 3 players were abused saying that I was proud them wearing the England shirt, and had only one follower who complained I had made a political statement.

Change the name and Iam sure there would be a better response

Why? 

 

Anyone with half a brain cell can tell the difference between an organisation and a movement. The trouble is not that people can't, it's that people won't....

[aintforever]

25 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Just like they did in Russia?
 

They’re going to be playing in stadiums built using slave labour and you can’t see the hypocrisy in that? 

 

Words are easy, cheap digs at the home sec or Boris ten a penny, condemning a few sad sacks & bots is just meaningless gestures. Let’s see how many stand up and be counted, let’s see how many will refuse to join the jamboree  in a country 100 times more racist & homophobic than England ever is. My betting is it’ll be somewhere between 0 and 0  

 

 

 

Of course there is hypocrisy, what is your point?

[hypochondriac]

10 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

Social media companies have to be reclassified as publishers as they have been threatened with , that way , like all other media , newspapers TV etc , they become liable for what they publish . Now that would improve thier focus on how to prevent abuse on their platform .

They would just set bots to ban any mention of certain words which would make social media extinct. 

[hypochondriac]

5 hours ago, saint1977 said:

They can’t ignore this though - quantitative evidence in droves and clearly racist content. Well they can, but we just ignore those posters  instead. 

https://inews.co.uk/news/technology/instagram-racist-abuse-posts-england-players-after-euros-1102896

Really poor from Instagram - I’d punish the overall platform for poor moderation and management of content with a huge fine - hundreds of millions at minimum - and prosecution for enabling extremist content. Where’s Nick Clegg, is he still employed by Facebook? Get him in front of the one of the All Party Parliamentary Groups next week and turn the screw. 

Facebook and co fled Australia but they need to clean up their act somewhere. It’ll drive the worst extremists underground but we have GCHQ to pursue them. Cleaning up the platforms overall and millions of bans will mean at least the overwhelming majority of us normal people who aren’t violent far right or far left thugs can use the internet safely. 

Millions of bans and GCHQ investigations for what the guardian reported today was 140 or so overt racist posts on social media, the majority or which originated overseas? And you call others extremists? 

[hypochondriac]

3 hours ago, Alanh said:

To anyone on this forum who says that taking the knee and the players stances on sodial media achieve nothing, just think, without it there is little chance that the issue would have been discussed on here across multiple threads during this summer.  The subject wouldn't have been a significant consideration going into the new season.

Perhaps some people who hadn't ever thought about the issue before have seen some other sides of the argument and if the result of this is that fewer (hopefully zero) racial slurs are thrown at Nathan Tella or Nathan Redmond, or Mo Salisu, or KWP, or any other black players, Saints or opposition then that is an achievement.  If that is multiplied across the country then progress will have been made.  That will be more prgress IMO than Kick It Out ever achieved.

Imo throwing out divisive messages for a year and riling up people and also some thick racists and then giving them loads of publicity and practically encouraging abuse has resulted in a rise in racist abuse on social media. The approach of making the England team inclusive and sending the message that it is for all regardless of skin colour was the way to go, not symbols that they know many find divisive and then calling everyone racist when they disagree. I am sure this would have been a much smaller and problem if this campaign hadn't been rumbling on this whole time. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, SFC Forever said:

The government has several options available to them to try to ease this problem. They could fine the media giants for every abusive post found. Not just racist but all forms of abuse. They can also try persuading other companies (FA, FIFA,EPL, EFL) etcetera to open their own sites for fans to mix. 

I would willingly pay £5 to register to a well run site. I know I cancelled my full membership on here because of total frustration at thing posted by some. I like this site because it often gives us info that our competition then copies. The fee though small would surely be enough to bring an interested player to check out the possibility and feasibility of such an idea.

 

The best idea I've seen so far is to give people the option to register their identity and then allow people to only see and interact with accounts that have been verified. That way the only people who will ever see anonymous abuse are those who have chosen to and those who can't handle it can instantly turn it off. Everyone's a winner. 

 

The problem with the media is they keep hyping up this abuse which simply encourages copycats and the cycle continues. Encourage social media companies to block comments as soon as possible, work hard behind the scenes to find identities where possible and then publicise those who are caught rather than making a song and dance out of the posts at the time because it has the opposite effect from what everyone wants. 

Edited 14 July, 2021 by hypochondriac

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Imo throwing out divisive messages for a year and riling up people and also some thick racists and then giving them loads of publicity and practically encouraging abuse has resulted in a rise in racist abuse on social media. The approach of making the England team inclusive and sending the message that it is for all regardless of skin colour was the way to go, not symbols that they know many find divisive and then calling everyone racist when they disagree. I am sure this would have been a much smaller and problem if this campaign hadn't been rumbling on this whole time. 

I doubt it has increased, it is just getting more attention from the media now. I think it has to be good that the issue is addressed, not just swept under the carpet with a kick-it-out T-shirt once a season.