The Euro2020 Thread

[Turkish]

  On 13/07/2021 at 17:54, SKD said:

Do you actually know what the Graffiti said? I’ll take it as not, so I’ll tell you. 

‘shit in a bucket, bastard’ 

What in the hell is racist about that? Are we now at a stage where we cannot criticise people of colour? 

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Is that true? I don’t know what it said as not seen the graffiti. That isn’t nice but It also isn’t racist ffs 

[Jimmy_D]

  On 13/07/2021 at 17:54, Turkish said:

Right so despite it being really easy to find (supersonic said he found loads in 20 seconds) no one has actually been able to share any links yet because they are only reporting it. So I was right then, there isn’t actually any evidence of it, which was my point. 

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No, the evidence is easily found and widespread, as I know you’re well aware. If you think I’m personally going to contribute to spreading it further though, you’re going to be disappointed.

[SKD]

  On 13/07/2021 at 17:58, Turkish said:

Is that true? I don’t know what it said as not seen the graffiti. That isn’t nice but It also isn’t racist ffs 

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Yep. It said ‘fuck sancho’ then ‘shit in a bucket (or basket) Bastard’ under the photo of Rashford. 

Absolutely not racist and my bet is it was an angry City fan (I mean if a skate had cost us the tournament, you’d probably see the same). 

There’s a reason why the only images shared are those of it covered up. 

[Turkish]

  On 13/07/2021 at 17:58, Jimmy_D said:

No, the evidence is easily found and widespread, as I know you’re well aware. If you think I’m personally going to contribute to spreading it further though, you’re going to be disappointed.

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Fair enough, I must be looking in the wrong places then. As I couldn’t find anything. Yet could find an image of a players abused 23 years ago within seconds. I guess media companies have suddenly decided not to share these things anymore, despite doing it for the decades before 

Edited 13 July, 2021 by Turkish

[egg]

  On 13/07/2021 at 16:09, Sarnia Cherie said:

Nothing that I can see. I don't condone racism on any level but sadly there are those in our society who do and 3 black players failing to score their penalties would have been all they needed to start the abuse and monkey emojis. I treat people they way I would like them to treat me. I don't have the answer to racism and I don't even know if there is one.

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I don't have the answer to racism either, but what seems undeniable is that since BLM / the knee, it's either got worse in a football context, or it's being more widely reported. 

It seems to me that there's two main schools of thought. Speak out/take action and raise awareness, or stay silent. 

Speaking out has led us to where we are. That seems to have achieved nothing positive but that's probably as there is no actual plan to address the underlying issue of racism amongst a minority of idiots. 

Staying silent leads to the inevitable "silence is acceptance" line. However, if the online racist bullies keep hearing that there behaviour is having an impact, chances are there'll do it more. 

Feed the troll or don't feed the troll. If an angry troll is starved it'll eventually die. 

Edited 13 July, 2021 by egg

[kyle04]

  On 13/07/2021 at 17:54, SKD said:

Do you actually know what the Graffiti said? I’ll take it as not, so I’ll tell you. 

‘shit in a bucket, bastard’ 

What in the hell is racist about that? Are we now at a stage where we cannot criticise people of colour? 

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As an insult it's in the same ball park as "cock piss Partridge", but there we go, because the victim is black it must follow it was racially motivated. Dear me this is getting silly now...

[Ex Lion Tamer]

  On 13/07/2021 at 17:50, Lighthouse said:

I’m not sure what you mean by that first sentence. 99% of the population deplores racism and those who practice it, that’s not really up for debate. As for saying they aren’t real football fans, well yes I agree with you, there are racist football fans. I’m not sure that’s ever actually been denied either. It’s a football stadium, Wembley could hold the entire population of Lincoln of course there were racist football fans there. There were also tax frauds, nonces, wife beaters, burglars and a handful of people who have or will commit murder at some point.

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https://theconversation.com/how-racist-is-britain-today-what-the-evidence-tells-us-141657

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 13/07/2021 at 16:47, wild-saint said:

No Southgate blew their one big chance. 

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Well, yes, I include Southgate in ‘they’.

[sadoldgit]

  On 13/07/2021 at 15:46, Saint Keef said:

It's all very well Harry Kane saying "You're not England fans and we don't want you" but the fact is Harry, they ARE England fans and they ARE racist. History tells us there has always been conflict between people of different race, creed, religion, culture, basically people who are from "different origins" if I can put it like that. Wars start because of it. And sadly, it will never go away despite all the campaigning and "peace treaties" in the world. It may go quiet for a while, die down, but these things always raise their ugly heads again. Nazi's & Jews, Catholic & Protestant, Native Americans and "The white settlers",  South Africa Apartheid, The Middle East conflicts etc etc etc.

Yes, I'm for trying to educate people of course, but if it is ingrained in individuals or groups....or even Nations, they will never change even if Harry Kane tells them they're not wanted. Yes it's depressing but I think I'm just being realistic. 

No doubt someone here will shoot me down in flames because they think differently.....

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I think Kane’s point is that they are not part of our footballing family. If you are a racist, you are not an England fan.

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 13/07/2021 at 17:09, Ex Lion Tamer said:

If you think back 50 years or 100 years, we've come so far on things like racism and homophobia. There's no reason to think we can't keep improving, but it takes education and people standing up for what's right

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Is playing football  in Qatar standing up to homophobia? 

[Lord Duckhunter]

From New Statesman

 

“Sanjay Bhandari, chair of Kick It Out, the campaign group against racism in football, says that data from the last two seasons of football shows around 70 per cent of abuse originates overseas. “These are not football fans,” he says. “They are people who have never been inside an English football ground.” In part that’s because – while our problem with racism is acute – we don’t have a monopoly on being morons. Italian and French football fans are as likely, if not more likely, to abuse black players with monkey emojis.”

Edited 13 July, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[aintforever]

  On 13/07/2021 at 19:24, Lord Duckhunter said:

From New Statesman

 

“Sanjay Bhandari, chair of Kick It Out, the campaign group against racism in football, says that data from the last two seasons of football shows around 70 per cent of abuse originates overseas. “These are not football fans,” he says. “They are people who have never been inside an English football ground.” In part that’s because – while our problem with racism is acute – we don’t have a monopoly on being morons. Italian and French football fans are as likely, if not more likely, to abuse black players with monkey emojis.”

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What difference does it make where these people are from?

[supersonic]

  On 13/07/2021 at 17:50, Lighthouse said:

I’m not sure what you mean by that first sentence. 99% of the population deplores racism and those who practice it, that’s not really up for debate. As for saying they aren’t real football fans, well yes I agree with you, there are racist football fans. I’m not sure that’s ever actually been denied either. It’s a football stadium, Wembley could hold the entire population of Lincoln of course there were racist football fans there. There were also tax frauds, nonces, wife beaters, burglars and a handful of people who have or will commit murder at some point.

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I actually said they ARE real football fans, if you cared to actually read what I said. 

Too many people wanting to brush the responsibility onto other people, it's all of our responsibility to call out discrimination of all sorts and educate each other on the best ways forward.

Here's the scary part:

50 year old youth football coach. These people are VERY REAL football people...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/police-arrest-50-year-old-man-over-racist-marcus-rashford-tweet/

 

[Verbal]

  On 13/07/2021 at 19:24, Lord Duckhunter said:

From New Statesman

 

“Sanjay Bhandari, chair of Kick It Out, the campaign group against racism in football, says that data from the last two seasons of football shows around 70 per cent of abuse originates overseas. “These are not football fans,” he says. “They are people who have never been inside an English football ground.” In part that’s because – while our problem with racism is acute – we don’t have a monopoly on being morons. Italian and French football fans are as likely, if not more likely, to abuse black players with monkey emojis.”

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So the people who defaced the Rashford mural were from Singapore?

Or the people in England shirts who aggressively abused a South Asian wedding party I was at in central London were Russian trolls?

[SKD]

  On 13/07/2021 at 19:33, aintforever said:

What difference does it make where these people are from?

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Well idiots like Anton Ferdinand have called for England to be refused the ability to apply for / host the 2030 WC due to racism. 
 

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/27/revealed-shocking-scale-twitter-abuse-targeting-england-euro-2020?__twitter_impression=true
 

An interesting Article from the Guardian. Whilst obviously 44 too many, let’s be rational about how we respond to this. 
 

Overwhelming majority of people and games in England were peaceful and a huge success. 

[egg]

  On 13/07/2021 at 19:35, supersonic said:

I actually said they ARE real football fans, if you cared to actually read what I said. 

Too many people wanting to brush the responsibility onto other people, it's all of our responsibility to call out discrimination of all sorts and educate each other on the best ways forward.

Here's the scary part:

50 year old youth football coach. These people are VERY REAL football people...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/police-arrest-50-year-old-man-over-racist-marcus-rashford-tweet/

 

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It shouldn't happen, but it does. How is the current focus, reporting, knee taking, out crying, etc, going to actually address the underlying issue that we have minority of racist idiots? 

[suewhistle]

Sod me, the apologists are out in force today.

[Lighthouse]

  On 13/07/2021 at 19:35, supersonic said:

I actually said they ARE real football fans, if you cared to actually read what I said. 

Too many people wanting to brush the responsibility onto other people, it's all of our responsibility to call out discrimination of all sorts and educate each other on the best ways forward.

Here's the scary part:

50 year old youth football coach. These people are VERY REAL football people...

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/police-arrest-50-year-old-man-over-racist-marcus-rashford-tweet/

 

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I’d be careful making accusations of reading properly. This was what I said; they ARE real football fans, I haven’t disagreed with you.

  On 13/07/2021 at 17:50, Lighthouse said:

As for saying they aren’t real football fans, well yes I agree with you, there are racist football fans. I’m not sure that’s ever actually been denied either.

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There’s no brushing of responsibility. I’m not saying it’s someone else’s problem to deal with, nor am I denying the existence of anything you’ve claimed.

 

What I fundamentally disagree with is the method and what you believe you are going to achieve this way. You call it ‘calling out and educating’. I think you’re doing nothing other than feeding trolls and reinforcing negative behaviour from people who actively want to be all the things you accuse them of.

[egg]

  On 13/07/2021 at 19:45, suewhistle said:

Sod me, the apologists are out in force today.

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Apologists? Nothing wrong in asking whether the current focus / action is actually working, or enquiring what might be better. 

I'm struggling with the notion that talking about what isn't working, but carrying on doing that is a good idea. 

I've yet to hear one suggestion of how to improve things. Not one. 

Pointing out the above does not make one an apologist. 

[Hawkswood]

  On 13/07/2021 at 14:53, supersonic said:

And here we have the age old problem in this country: people are more offended by the mere allegation of racism than they are the existence of racism itself.

Too many people sit there and  go "they aren't real football fans", in a way of distancing themselves from the problem and trying to avoid it.

But the reality is, these are real football fans, they are very real. One has ready been identified as a Leyton Orient STH, some others who have been prosecuted for previous racist abuse have all been STH's. Regardless of how big, or little, the problem is, it's there and doesn't seem to be going away and the sooner people and institutions square up to it, the better instead of treating it like the elephant in the room.

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This is absolutely bang on and pretty much what I said to someone earlier on today.

[sadoldgit]

  On 13/07/2021 at 19:38, egg said:

It shouldn't happen, but it does. How is the current focus, reporting, knee taking, out crying, etc, going to actually address the underlying issue that we have minority of racist idiots? 

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The problem is that we have racist idiots. The word minority doesn’t really matter but by constantly using it it makes the problem sound less of an issue.

[egg]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:04, sadoldgit said:

The problem is that we have racist idiots. The word minority doesn’t really matter but by constantly using it it makes the problem sound less of an issue.

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Hmm. Not referring to the minority as the minority makes the problem sound more widespread than it is. 

The issue is how we tackle the obvious problem, but I can't see how misrepresenting the scale of the problem addresses that. Please explain what I'm missing. 

[kyle04]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:04, sadoldgit said:

The problem is that we have racist idiots. The word minority doesn’t really matter but by constantly using it it makes the problem sound less of an issue.

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Equally, overstating the "problem" is just as unproductive. 44 racist tweets on a platform that has 300 million monthly users is hardly a tsunami of abuse, The people who do this are cunts for sure, but it seems all perspective is being lost on this issue ?

[Turkish]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:04, sadoldgit said:

The problem is that we have racist idiots. The word minority doesn’t really matter but by constantly using it it makes the problem sound less of an issue.

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It is a minority, a huge minority. We know how you like to scream everyone is racist but the reality is it would appear that it’s about 1 Twitter user for every 7 million accounts, still let’s pretend it’s not a minority shall we.

[Turkish]

And they’re at it again 

Edited 13 July, 2021 by Turkish

[supersonic]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:22, Turkish said:

And they’re at it again 

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Showing solidarity with those whom have been abused. What's your point or are you just being a twat like normal?

[Turkish]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:26, supersonic said:

Showing solidarity with those whom have been abused. What's your point or are you just being a twat like normal?

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Why are you abusing me? Just a bit hypocritical isn’t it.

[supersonic]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:32, Turkish said:

Why are you abusing me? Just a bit hypocritical isn’t it.

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It's the latter then, thanks for clarifying. 

[Turkish]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:34, supersonic said:

It's the latter then, thanks for clarifying. 

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Such a shame that an interesting and valid discussion ended up with you resorting to abuse. From someone so keen Tom criticise other people for online abuse. 

[Whitey Grandad]

So. A commendable performance in a major football competition gets turned into a discussion about racism. I look forward to the day when we can all treat each other as equal human beings without being diverted by the colour of a person's skin. We don't take any norice of the colour of their eyes, or of their hair. 

[The Cat]

  On 13/07/2021 at 16:32, Turkish said:

Obviously they were as it's not something that anyone would make up. It's just with the fact it's been top of agenda in the media for a couple of days there has been very little actual evidence of this. Usually with these sort of things there are videos, screen shots etc, there has been none of that (that i have seen) which given the scale of the condemnation i find a bit strange, dont you? 

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I checked Saka's Instagram about 15 minutes after the game and there were people calling him a monkey under his last post.

[Turkish]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:37, Whitey Grandad said:

So. A commendable performance in a major football competition gets turned into a discussion about racism. I look forward to the day when we can all treat each other as equal human beings without being diverted by the colour of a person's skin. We don't take any norice of the colour of their eyes, or of their hair. 

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Agreed. 

[supersonic]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:38, The Cat said:

I checked Saka's Instagram about 15 minutes after the game and there were people calling him a monkey under his last post.

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Funny how some people apparently can't find any trace of abuse. 

Also totally coincidentally they don't think the UK has a race problem and hate taking the knee. Funny that 

[Turkish]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:38, The Cat said:

I checked Saka's Instagram about 15 minutes after the game and there were people calling him a monkey under his last post.

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Like i said, strange that all the outcry there hasn’t been any of this shared. Even those screaming about it on here seem to have seen any of it themselves, or if they did weren’t willing to share it, quite odd. 

[Pedantic Pete]

  On 13/07/2021 at 19:36, Verbal said:

So the people who defaced the Rashford mural were from Singapore?

Or the people in England shirts who aggressively abused a South Asian wedding party I was at in central London were Russian trolls?

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If you are saying that it wasn't someone from singapore who defaced the mural, What exactly was racist about it? Surely the fact they didn't use anything racist (well I don't see the link if it is) proves the exact opposite of your point..That whilst they defaced it and they were clearly from this country, they chose to not use racist comments?

[Turkish]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:47, supersonic said:

Funny how some people apparently can't find any trace of abuse. 

Also totally coincidentally they don't think the UK has a race problem and hate taking the knee. Funny that 

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Funny how someone so against social media abuse does it themselves so easily. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

 

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:38, The Cat said:

I checked Saka's Instagram about 15 minutes after the game and there were people calling him a monkey under his last post.

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Facebook and Twitter have been working pretty hard to delete racist content, so those on here who simply won't believe black people when they say there's a problem aren't going to get the scale of irrefutable evidence they're insisting on

[Toadhall Saint]

Such a sad thread

[sydney_saint]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:48, Turkish said:

Like i said, strange that all the outcry there hasn’t been any of this shared. Even those screaming about it on here seem to have seen any of it themselves, or if they did weren’t willing to share it, quite odd. 

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Here is one screenshot that was one Saka's instagram. I feel very uncomfortable sharing any more than this. May delete this post in an hour. But there was tonnes of this, plus n*igger and other racial terms. I am sure plenty will find a way to twist and aplogise for those doing it.

EDIT: Now deleted

 

Edited 13 July, 2021 by sydney_saint

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 13/07/2021 at 19:33, aintforever said:

What difference does it make where these people are from?

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Course it makes a difference, when the media and woke warriors are slagging England fans off. They’re desperate for the abusers to be from the white working class.

 

 

[supersonic]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:50, Turkish said:

Funny how someone so against social media abuse does it themselves so easily. 

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#PartOfTheProblem

[sydney_saint]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:10, kyle04 said:

Equally, overstating the "problem" is just as unproductive. 44 racist tweets on a platform that has 300 million monthly users is hardly a tsunami of abuse, The people who do this are cunts for sure, but it seems all perspective is being lost on this issue ?

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It was far, far more than 44

[S-Clarke]

I think it's right to make a point of those who post the abhorrent trash on social media, I think it's got better (in the sense that the more obvious types have reduced.) but given there is heightened attention to it now even a few posts by spam accounts will get the headlines too.

The sad thing is that the individuals posting above are most likely duff accounts, people sat behind spam accounts posting whatever they want. They'll close that account down tomorrow, start a new one up and get themselves a new VPN IP and away they go. Sadly the internet is a scary place and the tools for anonymising make it very easy for these few trolls to accomplish what they want. I wouldn't say they are even posting out of pure racial hatred either, it's just to get a rise and some attention.

The same types are also busy on other peoples accounts fat shaming people or taking the piss out of disabilities etc. The internet and social media is a dark, dark murky place. It's very hard to police due to the laws within different countries and the ways you can anonymise yourself, but I think the approach of highlighting is going to weed out the more naive social media users - but sadly you will always have those trolls who specialise in setting up multiple accounts every day, just to bash others for a rise.

Edited 13 July, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Turkish]

  On 13/07/2021 at 21:00, sydney_saint said:

Here is one screenshot that was one Saka's instagram. I feel very uncomfortable sharing any more than this. May delete this post in an hour. But there was tonnes of this, plus n*igger and other racial terms. I am sure plenty will find a way to twist and aplogise for those doing it.

 

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Thanks. Pretty abhorrent. Not sure why other people couldn’t do this rather than calling people names. As I said originally I wasn’t doubting it happened, just with it being top of the agenda in the media I was a bit surprised to see there wasn’t any screen shots or photos doing the rounds as there usually are.

Edited 13 July, 2021 by Turkish

[Turkish]

  On 13/07/2021 at 21:03, supersonic said:

#PartOfTheProblem

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#yesitseemsyouare

[sydney_saint]

  On 13/07/2021 at 21:10, Turkish said:

Thanks. Pretty abhorrent. Not sure why other people couldn’t do this rather than calling people names. As I said originally I wasn’t doubting it happened, just with it being top of the agenda in the media I was a bit surprised to see there wasn’t any screen shots or photos doing the rounds as there usually are.

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No worries. Do you mind deleting the picture in the quote? I wanted to demonstrate it happened, but do feel a little uncomfortable with it been shared too much

[supersonic]

  On 13/07/2021 at 21:10, Turkish said:

Thanks. Pretty abhorrent. Not sure why other people couldn’t do this rather than calling people names. As I said originally I wasn’t doubting it happened, just with it being top of the agenda in the media I was a bit surprised to see there wasn’t any screen shots or photos doing the rounds as there usually are.

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Just Google it yourself, or were you scared you'd find something that disproves your abuse of anti-racism movements? 

[Turkish]

  On 13/07/2021 at 21:21, supersonic said:

Just Google it yourself, or were you scared you'd find something that disproves your abuse of anti-racism movements? 

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What a strange thing to think I’d be worried about. Why would anyone think that?

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 13/07/2021 at 20:53, Ex Lion Tamer said:

 

Facebook and Twitter have been working pretty hard to delete racist content, so those on here who simply won't believe black people when they say there's a problem aren't going to get the scale of irrefutable evidence they're insisting on

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Rubbish!  They've done the bare minimum and could do plenty more.  Abusive behaviour (not just racist abuse) continues to run amok on social media precisely because there are no repercussions for those that do it.

[The Cat]

https://www.change.org/p/euros-2020-managers-rematch-demand-for-italy-v-england

🤦‍♂️