The Euro2020 Thread

[egg]

Just now, Jimmy_D said:

 

Like I said, intent doesn’t matter, so in effect, no, he couldn’t win the ball legally there if he couldn’t do it without going through the player like that.

So you're saying that the lad shouldn't have played the ball because there was a player behind the ball? That's not football as I recognise it. 

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Does anyone know the rationale for FIFA changing the rule in this regard? Seems illogical to me. Yes, of course it's unfortunate if someone gets injured unintentionally but where's the logic in penalising someone for getting the ball in a tackle, which after all is the aim of the game. 

I’m pretty sure the thinking behind the rule is to stop players getting injured by flying knee high tackles.

[Jimmy_D]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

So you're saying that the lad shouldn't have played the ball because there was a player behind the ball? That's not football as I recognise it. 

Obviously the player thought going for it was the right thing to do as well, like I said, I think he’s been unlucky with the outcome there, but the ref had no choice.

[stknowle]

That was reckless! Why no red card?

[Jimmy_D]

2 minutes ago, stknowle said:

That was reckless! Why no red card?

Reckless would be a yellow. Probably a bit lucky to avoid one, maybe just about covered by ‘careless’ as it looked like he tried to avert it.

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

Does anyone know the rationale for FIFA changing the rule in this regard? Seems illogical to me. Yes, of course it's unfortunate if someone gets injured unintentionally but where's the logic in penalising someone for getting the ball in a tackle, which after all is the aim of the game. 

If you can't win the ball without putting your studs up at knee height and following through on an oppo player, then the ball isn't 'there to be won'.

Reckless tackles like that can cause career-ending injuries.

[revolution saint]

23 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

*cough*

Greece Euro 2004!

Well done, Greece and Portugal out of how many tournaments? My point is that being overly defensive isn’t generally going to get you any more success than being more attack minded. Sometimes it does but mostly it doesn’t. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, revolution saint said:

Well done, Greece and Portugal out of how many tournaments? My point is that being overly defensive isn’t generally going to get you any more success than being more attack minded. Sometimes it does but mostly it doesn’t. 

Well if your starting point  is 2004 then 50% of the last euros have been won by pretty boring teams 

[trousers]

Ukraine!

[CB Fry]

Are you looking at my bra?

 

Edited 29 June, 2021 by CB Fry

[Jimmy_D]

Woah, great cross, just onside?

[trousers]

5 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

If you can't win the ball without putting your studs up at knee height and following through on an oppo player, then the ball isn't 'there to be won'.

Reckless tackles like that can cause career-ending injuries.

On reflection, fair enough

[egg]

Just now, trousers said:

On reflection, fair enough

Ditto. 

[Sheaf Saint]

I really thought that would go to pens. Still, hopefully Ukraine will be exhausted from the effort. Shouldn't really matter because I still think we'll have too much for them anyway.

[Lord Duckhunter]

43 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Well done, Greece and Portugal out of how many tournaments? My point is that being overly defensive isn’t generally going to get you any more success than being more attack minded. Sometimes it does but mostly it doesn’t. 

You’re missing the point entirely . This team, like the Greek one, like the Portuguese one, isn’t good enough to win this tournament unless we play like we are. If we get into a basketball match with Spain or Belgium, we’ll get beat. Every single person on here would love is to outplay sides and football them off the pitch, but it ain’t going to happen with our defenders. They need a defensive structure and a solid foundation to bring the best out of them. 

[Lighthouse]

54 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I really thought that would go to pens. Still, hopefully Ukraine will be exhausted from the effort. Shouldn't really matter because I still think we'll have too much for them anyway.

They are more than a little fortunate to get this far. Sneaking through the group stage with two defeats and a win against Macedonia and only because Spain spanked Slovakia, drawing probably the worst group winners in the tournament, then being outplayed up until Sweden having the man sent off.

[Saint Keef]

7 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

Looking back through the Scotland match there's lots of forum gold 😉

Haha....Thanks for pointing that out Jonnyboy........I'll take that one on the chin.

[skintsaint]

my nerves are still shot from Muller missing...

good win which any of us would have taken. Ukraine next, knowing us we will lose that on pens.

[tajjuk]

10 hours ago, revolution saint said:

Well done, Greece and Portugal out of how many tournaments? My point is that being overly defensive isn’t generally going to get you any more success than being more attack minded. Sometimes it does but mostly it doesn’t. 

Over the last 20 years in international football yes it does, keeping it tight and clean sheets have won tournaments over being attack minded, that extends beyond just Greece and Portugal, look at all the other winners, they were not expansive, didn’t score that many goals and crucially didn’t concede many. 

[sadoldgit]

Southgate has found an effective way to progress in the Euros but so far we have been one of the most boring negative teams in the competition. A tightly buttoned grey waistcoat has become a metaphor for the way we play our football.

[Turkish]

Just now, sadoldgit said:

Southgate has found an effective way to progress in the Euros but so far we have been one of the most boring negative teams in the competition. A tightly buttoned grey waistcoat has become a metaphor for the way we play our football.

Or the other way of looking at it is that tactically he got it spot on, keep it tight for 60 minutes, dont concede then bring Greslish on to create the chances to win the game late on. But then we know how you like to whinge dont we Soggy. The sort of bloke who if you won £9m on the lottery would soon be moaning it wasn't £10m.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Yesterday's game was really entertaining, I thought we were pretty positive.  The group games were drab but I'm surprised anyone thought yesterday was.

[Charlie Wayman]

35 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Or the other way of looking at it is that tactically he got it spot on, keep it tight for 60 minutes, dont concede then bring Greslish on to create the chances to win the game late on. But then we know how you like to whinge dont we Soggy. The sort of bloke who if you won £9m on the lottery would soon be moaning it wasn't £10m.

Agree. Last night the England plan was spot on, starve them of the ball, frustrate them mentally, wear them out physically by chasing shadows then use the creative players to full effect. No complaints at all. I am not a Southgate fan but there are more brains behind England's tatics than his.

Sadly the Sweden v Ukraine game was one of the dirtiest of the tournament so far, Sweden lacked real talent so resorted to fouling to stay in it. At least Ukraine tried to play football and will be a different proposition against England. 

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, tajjuk said:

Over the last 20 years in international football yes it does, keeping it tight and clean sheets have won tournaments over being attack minded, that extends beyond just Greece and Portugal, look at all the other winners, they were not expansive, didn’t score that many goals and crucially didn’t concede many. 

Exactly. Look at Germany for instance. They have never played what you would describe as exciting, free-flowing football, but their tournament success record speaks for itself.

[Toussaint]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Southgate has found an effective way to progress in the Euros but so far we have been one of the most boring negative teams in the competition. A tightly buttoned grey waistcoat has become a metaphor for the way we play our football.

Agree it is dour, but I don't think we will care about that too much if we win it. Its when its dour and ineffective it becomes a bigger issue. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

Sorry, but I am still not completely convinced that Gareth Southgate is the right manager for England. When Kane was sitting on the pitch last night, nursing his knee, Southgate has Rashford warming up! Why, Rashford when he has Sancho? Am I missing something here? I would love to see us start with Foden, Mount, Sancho, Bellingham and Grealish against Ukraine but I can't see the conservative, cautious Southgate changing his line-up from last night. A 2-0 win against one of the poorest German sides I have seen in some time will convince him his team selection is fine.

[Charlie Wayman]

28 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Sorry, but I am still not completely convinced that Gareth Southgate is the right manager for England. When Kane was sitting on the pitch last night, nursing his knee, Southgate has Rashford warming up! Why, Rashford when he has Sancho? Am I missing something here? I would love to see us start with Foden, Mount, Sancho, Bellingham and Grealish against Ukraine but I can't see the conservative, cautious Southgate changing his line-up from last night. A 2-0 win against one of the poorest German sides I have seen in some time will convince him his team selection is fine.

Like Saints, England only beat very poor teams.... 😂

Edited 30 June, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[Whitey Grandad]

14 hours ago, egg said:

Explain what he was supposed to with his foot after winning the ball?! 

Trousers is correct. He went for the ball and won it. 

Keep it closer to the ground and away from his opponent.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Sorry, but I am still not completely convinced that Gareth Southgate is the right manager for England. When Kane was sitting on the pitch last night, nursing his knee, Southgate has Rashford warming up! Why, Rashford when he has Sancho? Am I missing something here? I would love to see us start with Foden, Mount, Sancho, Bellingham and Grealish against Ukraine but I can't see the conservative, cautious Southgate changing his line-up from last night. A 2-0 win against one of the poorest German sides I have seen in some time will convince him his team selection is fine.

Because Rashford is better defensively? I'm not amazing at picking up that side of the game but presumably that is the reason. Plus Sancho has never really done anything in an England shirt when he's been given the chance

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Or the other way of looking at it is that tactically he got it spot on, keep it tight for 60 minutes, dont concede then bring Greslish on to create the chances to win the game late on. But then we know how you like to whinge dont we Soggy. The sort of bloke who if you won £9m on the lottery would soon be moaning it wasn't £10m.

Your usual nonsense. I’d be more than happy with £1m. I’d be happier still if you stopped posting on social media 😉

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Your usual nonsense. I’d be more than happy with £1m. I’d be happier still if you stopped posting on social media 😉

Why would I deny you that? A few on here seem to live for the fact I post on here. You should show more gratitude 

[Sheaf Saint]

22 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Sorry, but I am still not completely convinced that Gareth Southgate is the right manager for England. When Kane was sitting on the pitch last night, nursing his knee, Southgate has Rashford warming up! Why, Rashford when he has Sancho? Am I missing something here? I would love to see us start with Foden, Mount, Sancho, Bellingham and Grealish against Ukraine but I can't see the conservative, cautious Southgate changing his line-up from last night. A 2-0 win against one of the poorest German sides I have seen in some time will convince him his team selection is fine.

So you would like to see him make 5 changes to the starting lineup? That's just asking for trouble IMO.

You can't drop Sterling when he has scored 3 in 4 already. Saka, although he faded in the second half last night, has looked excellent and deserves to be in ahead of Foden.

I have to admit I was surprised he didn't involve Sancho last night, given the season he has just had playing against German defences. But we got the job done so I will reserve any criticism for that.

[tajjuk]

1 hour ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Sorry, but I am still not completely convinced that Gareth Southgate is the right manager for England. When Kane was sitting on the pitch last night, nursing his knee, Southgate has Rashford warming up! Why, Rashford when he has Sancho? Am I missing something here? I would love to see us start with Foden, Mount, Sancho, Bellingham and Grealish against Ukraine but I can't see the conservative, cautious Southgate changing his line-up from last night. A 2-0 win against one of the poorest German sides I have seen in some time will convince him his team selection is fine.

Because Sancho is not a striker? Why would you put someone adept at running at people from deep as a striker often having to face away from goal? Rashford has played as a number 9 for Utd before not brilliantly but more than Sancho has. 
 

Also his tactics have been spot on, he dealt with the midfield issues we had previously against Croatia. He played more attacking line ups against Scotland and the Czechs the players tempo was the main issue there, they got out fought against Scotland abs didn’t move the ball quick enough. Against Germany he switched to match up their system and nullify their wingbacks, used the pace of Sterling and Saka against Hummels and Rudiger, and Walkers pace in the 3 mainly nullified the threat from Werner (also allowing Stones and Maguire to step out with the ball and start attacks) Then as the Germans tired he brought Grealish on, switched Sterling to the other side which dragged people across and opened up space for Shaw to overlap which got the goal. 
 

He very clearly knows what he is doing and they have a plan against all opposition. I fully expect he will switch to a back 4 against the Ukraine with Grealish probably starting. 
 

Oh and he backed Sterling when everyone was calling for him to be dropped and he’s been our best player. 
 

 

[Chris cooper]

34 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Because Sancho is not a striker? Why would you put someone adept at running at people from deep as a striker often having to face away from goal? Rashford has played as a number 9 for Utd before not brilliantly but more than Sancho has. 
 

Also his tactics have been spot on, he dealt with the midfield issues we had previously against Croatia. He played more attacking line ups against Scotland and the Czechs the players tempo was the main issue there, they got out fought against Scotland abs didn’t move the ball quick enough. Against Germany he switched to match up their system and nullify their wingbacks, used the pace of Sterling and Saka against Hummels and Rudiger, and Walkers pace in the 3 mainly nullified the threat from Werner (also allowing Stones and Maguire to step out with the ball and start attacks) Then as the Germans tired he brought Grealish on, switched Sterling to the other side which dragged people across and opened up space for Shaw to overlap which got the goal. 
 

He very clearly knows what he is doing and they have a plan against all opposition. I fully expect he will switch to a back 4 against the Ukraine with Grealish probably starting. 
 

Oh and he backed Sterling when everyone was calling for him to be dropped and he’s been our best player. 
 

 

Couldn’t explained that better myself .. i questioned 3 at the back neggy tatics.. but as stated above .. he’s been spot on! Southgate was the man who implemented the German blueprint nearly ten years ago wen he was upstairs for the fa .. he ran an inquest in how the Germans are winners all the way back from their grass roots level.. and implemented it here before he got the England job .

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Southgate has found an effective way to progress in the Euros but so far we have been one of the most boring negative teams in the competition. A tightly buttoned grey waistcoat has become a metaphor for the way we play our football.

Yeah, I loved watching France, with all their attacking verve. Holland as well, great watch. I look forward to watching them both in this weekend’s quarterfinals. What time do they play? 

[Mystic Force]

Key for our success last night was after the substitution Sterling moved of the left giving Shaw space and also the ball, instead of running into space and then being ignored as sterling preferred a blind alley than giving him the ball. Shaw has been out best player this tournament I think.

In the flair vs defense argument to win tournaments, well you play to your strength and what that is for England is a mixed format, not overly defensive like Portugal were playing and not free flowing like brazil would try. Defend when you need to defend, attack when you need to attack. We do not have any outstanding attacking players who can mesmerize opponents with their feat or Usain Bolt past a defense. So even if we looked to play on the counter we do not have the players to capitalize.

As for Swe-Ukr that was some game, two solid if not spectacular teams having a slugging match, there was a 15 min period in the second half with balls bouncing off posts. The first period of extra time resembled the results of trench warfare out there with bodies all over the ground. At the end it was a strike from a team who just had the little bit extra left that knocked them out. Not classically skillful but still entertaining. Best news for England is that game will have depleted Ukraine's energy reserves, while we were able to finish it 90 mins with out bunch of walking wounded. 

[John B]

5 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Southgate has found an effective way to progress in the Euros but so far we have been one of the most boring negative teams in the competition. A tightly buttoned grey waistcoat has become a metaphor for the way we play our football.

We you not happy that we finally beat Germany in the knock out stages of a major tournament after so many attempts I am not sure how many

But I remember 1970 Mexico 1990 Italy 1996 Wembley 2010 South Africa so I thought it was a great result and Southgate should be congratulated where Ramsey Robson Venables and Capello failed

[Saint Garrett]

18 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

If someone hasn’t already photoshopped the CCTV of Hancock with his hand on the woman’s buns onto that screen, I’m very disappointed.

 

[skintsaint]

 

2 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Oh and he backed Sterling when everyone was calling for him to be dropped and he’s been our best player. 

He is our top scorer but far from playing well. He kills off so many moves/momentum in our attacks it is frustrating. GS doing decent enough and a great chance to reach the final here. Would rather win ugly than lose pretty

Special mention to Pickford, who I thought has been ropey the last few seasons but has played well between the sticks so far, crucial save in the first half against Werner as well and some important saves v Scotland. 

[Saint Garrett]

We’re getting better offensively, and defensively very solid, Sterling causes chaos and despite him giving the ball away too much, he is dangerous thats for sure. If we can get Kane to actually move around a bit then we will be kore dangerous. 
 

As much as I hate Grealish’s normal diving around, he is a class act and should be starting every game. 
 

Can only beat what’s in front of you, and we have done the job in the last 4 games without conceding a goal…

Got to give Southgate some credit, 

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, skintsaint said:

 

He is our top scorer but far from playing well. He kills off so many moves/momentum in our attacks it is frustrating. GS doing decent enough and a great chance to reach the final here. Would rather win ugly than lose pretty

Special mention to Pickford, who I thought has been ropey the last few seasons but has played well between the sticks so far, crucial save in the first half against Werner as well and some important saves v Scotland. 

Pickford has been working on his temperament and it shows, he is a lot more calm and in control which improves his concentration. He obviously recognised that he was turning into Hart 2.0. He is playing well in this tournament. Shaw has been very good as well.

[tajjuk]

2 hours ago, skintsaint said:

 

He is our top scorer but far from playing well. He kills off so many moves/momentum in our attacks it is frustrating. GS doing decent enough and a great chance to reach the final here. Would rather win ugly than lose pretty

Special mention to Pickford, who I thought has been ropey the last few seasons but has played well between the sticks so far, crucial save in the first half against Werner as well and some important saves v Scotland. 

First game or two maybe but I think his movement and take ons have been essential, he started and finished the first goal, running at the defence and playing into Kane drawing people to him which created the space for Shaw. Yes he’s far from perfect and his passing at times is ropey, he’s no playmaker but his movement, work rate and running with the ball causes all sort of problems.

 

Agree on Pickford, seems to have improved and seems a calming presence now behind the defence not a rash mistake waiting to happen and he is making big saves. Apparently he’s been seeing a psychologist and it seems it’s worked. 

[kyle04]

+1 on Pickford. Good with his feet, intelligent distribution and decision making and probably the most agile keeper in the world at the moment. With Maguire looking more dominant as each game progresses we have a pretty reliable defense developing.

Lets face it , it really is coming home this time...

[Jimmy_D]

On 24/06/2021 at 00:18, Jimmy_D said:

R16

Portugal, Italy, France, Croatia

Sweden, England, NL, Denmark

QF

Italy, France, England, Denmark

SF

Italy, England

F

Italy

This is going well

[Lord Duckhunter]

There’s 4 major factors that convince me we will do it. 

1. The quality of our squad. We may not have the best 11, but more than any other one, this tournament will be won by a squad of players.

2. Home advantage in big big games. 

3. We normally go into tournaments running on empty & fucked due to our ridiculous schedules in England. Whilst other countries have English based players they have a lot who also play in slightly less demanding on your body leagues. I don’t believe Modric would have played like he did in WC ‘18 if he’d come off the back of a full season with Spurs. Due to shortened pre season & squeezed schedules they’ve all basically had an “English season” this year. The results of which we’re seeing right across the competition, European sides that normally look fresh, look knackered, players getting injured, hobbling around and generally not at their sharpest. In some respects we’re more used to the work load and certainly seem to be coping better physically. 
 

4. The draw. I reckon the other side of the draw will punch themselves out, reaching the final having played tough tough games. Where they’ll meet an English team and it’ll be one game too many for them. 

Edited 30 June, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[simo]

What a day yesterday was , still feeling it now and only just have my voice back . Until the goals I didn't think we were that great . Still as with the rest of the games so far it's all about the result . On to Saturday!

[LiberalCommunist]

Pleased with the win, but we'll never play a German team as bad as that again. They were utterly dreadful. 

[sadoldgit]

6 hours ago, John B said:

We you not happy that we finally beat Germany in the knock out stages of a major tournament after so many attempts I am not sure how many

But I remember 1970 Mexico 1990 Italy 1996 Wembley 2010 South Africa so I thought it was a great result and Southgate should be congratulated where Ramsey Robson Venables and Capello failed

I didn’t say that I wasn’t happy with the result, or the previous results. Why would I be? I was commenting about about the way we are playing. I also think that no one will give a stuff about the way we play if we make the final, me included.

[Dark Munster]

3 hours ago, Jimmy_D said:

This is going well

If the SF turns out to be Belgium, Spain, Ukraine and Czech then you'll be in the running for the Mark Lawrenson Prediction Trophy.

Edited 30 June, 2021 by Dark Munster

[SaintBobby]

We’re a pretty dull and compact team. A bit Mourinho. But that gives us a fair chance to win the tournament. It’s just possible we will grind it out with just a few more 1-0 wins. I’d rather that than see some silky skills and lose again.