Supporting the players in taking the knee

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/live-leeds-black-lives-matter-20770090

Hardly kicking off, small diverse crowd with a couple of ginger kids with placards. Probably an over reaction but so is your post.

Not really, BLM encouraging people to protest, even though the fella admit he was guilty, took his punishment and got no injuries despite the racist police brutality. 

[SKD]

38 minutes ago, supersonic said:

But you still think you aren't part of the problem? 

But you still think the Knee isn’t related to BLM 

 

 

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, JRM said:

Brentford players agreed to stop taking the knee back in February. 

Now they have been promoted I'm sure they'll be under a lot of pressure from the Premier league and SKY PR departments to join in again, unless a decision is made by all clubs to stop it in August. 

Dont be silly. They wont be put under any pressure at all, everyone tells us that it's all their own choice and their clubs and not something they are "encouraged" to do

[Antrimsaint]

12 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

also have acquaintances of Asian origin who attend football. They also disagree - I assume their views are valid as it is an anti-racism gesture? The group and width of intelligent people with sound reasons against this grows.:....maybe these people aren’t all closet racists.

if they changed the gesture to linking arms this would mainly go away. However unfortunately the PL, Southgate and players are too simple to understand the nuances of the shameful objectives of BLM. They say they want to “bring everyone on board” but will not make this simple change - so that’s lip service “follow us or else”. Regardless I think we have all received the anti-racism message loud and clear and all they are now doing is making those who are racist even more entrenched. 

I’d be surprised if they booed an anti racism gesture at a football match, yes.

Do you have any Chinese friends or Aborigines that also disagree with anti racism gestures?

[JRM]

3 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

I’d be surprised if they booed an anti racism gesture at a football match, yes.

Do you have any Chinese friends or Aborigines that also disagree with anti racism gestures?

Would you support Lyle Taylor and Forest players who didn't want to carry on with the knee?

 

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/nottingham-forest-striker-lyle-taylor-4872901

[Antrimsaint]

3 minutes ago, SKD said:

But you still think the Knee isn’t related to BLM 

 

 

We’re the England players wearing BLM T-shirt’s? Again mental gymnastics. Booing your own players, pathetic. Boo them for being crap but not for being against racism. What do you think it looks like to the wider world?

[Antrimsaint]

JRM, If they didn’t boo the crowd, yes

Edited 9 June, 2021 by Antrimsaint

[Antrimsaint]

2 minutes ago, JRM said:

Would you support Lyle Taylor and Forest players who didn't want to carry on with the knee?

 

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/nottingham-forest-striker-lyle-taylor-4872901

Just like I don’t support mcCleans political stance but he has a right to it and I won’t boo it

[Sir Ralph]

1 minute ago, Antrimsaint said:

Just like I don’t support mcCleans political stance but he has a right to it and I won’t boo it

So you don’t have a problem with disagreeing with taking the knee. Only the booing? So if someone turns their back on the kneeling is that ok?

[Lighthouse]

16 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

Strange how none of my comments regarding Gammons, have not been removed but the racist one was. Can you explain?

I’ve deleted more posts from you on this thread than every other poster combined. It’s quite hard to pass yourself off as the voice of tolerance and acceptance when you’re being this belligerent to so many people.

 

Yes I have deleted Duck’s post because this kind of childish bickering is becoming tiresome. Not because of the PM you sent claiming you were going to report the racist abuse you have suffered to the Police.

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

We’re the England players wearing BLM T-shirt’s? Again mental gymnastics. Booing your own players, pathetic. Boo them for being crap but not for being against racism. What do you think it looks like to the wider world?

No one is booing them for being against racism. Something about mental gymnastics.

[Antrimsaint]

I still don’t agree with it and think it stinks of racism but it is your right to protest, of course.

Apologists for the booing does bring out the racists/xenophobic. One example being Muckie. I will always challenge those people.

[egg]

29 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

Pal I can take any thing you want to throw. Lefty, woke, commie. Whatever you like but isn’t it ironic you are doubling down on the racism in an argument about anti racism. I tell you what. I will apologise for any offence caused by the term gammon. Will he apologise for the racism he used?

I've called you none of those things mate. Stop whining and accept that if you give, you'll get back. 

[LuckyNumber7]

8 hours ago, supersonic said:

Just watching the BBC documentary on England football.

Think it's unfair we've jumped to conclusions of people who boo the taking of the knee. It's not like we've been here before, like when people held up signs saying "go home" at Sven when he landed to take the England job, which are clearly because people hate Marxists and aren't bigoted racists/xenophobes.

And the fact that Anton Ferdinand still gets a rougher time than John Terry, despite the latter abusing him. It's obviously that JT was simply opposing Anton's Marxist views rather than his skin colour.

Or the fact only certain footballers are abused on social media almost weekly, but it's nothing to do with race, it must conveniently be because of their Marxist sympathies.

But of course, football doesn't have a problem with racism, sexism or homophobia and we are totally outrageous to even suggest such a thing 🙄

Ridiculous strawman argument, I don't think anyone has said racism doesn't exist at all in football or wider society, though I don't believe it's as big a problem as some make out.  Just because I don't support taking the knee doesn't mean I don't find the racist abuse dished out on social media abhorrent. 

Taking the knee will always for many go hand in hand with BLM and their divisive politics which football chose to associate itself with a year ago. Of course I don't believe all footballers are Marxists who want to defund the police but saying you are taking the knee solely as an anti racism gesture doesn't simply remove all the toxic connotations associated with it.

If the aim is peace and unity, I cannot fathom why they continue with something so divisive.

[Antrimsaint]

Egg, I didn’t say you did mate. If you read my reply I did state I can take as good as I give. Is “mick” not racist?

Edited 9 June, 2021 by Antrimsaint

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

I still don’t agree with it and think it stinks of racism but it is your right to protest, of course.

Apologists for the booing does bring out the racists/xenophobic. One example being Muckie. I will always challenge those people.

At least we can agree on the fact that we can all have our view without being labelled. I believe booing is too heavy handed but believe people can voice their disagreement openly.

Appreciate discussing it with you 

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, Antrimsaint said:

I didn’t say you did mate. If you read my reply I did state I can take as good as I give. Is “mick” not racist?

No. It's derogatory, in the same vein as calling someone a Limey, Sweaty, Yank, Kraut, Frog or Syrup drinking moose f**ker, but it is not racist.

[SKD]

28 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Dont be silly. They wont be put under any pressure at all, everyone tells us that it's all their own choice and their clubs and not something they are "encouraged" to do

Makes me laugh when I hear this argument. Especially when players, like Bednerak, take the knee week in week out in the premier league but don’t when they play for their nation 😂😂

[Antrimsaint]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

No. It's derogatory, in the same vein as calling someone a Limey, Sweaty, Yank, Kraut, Frog or Syrup drinking moose f**ker, but it is not racist.

This is the problem. To me as an Irishman being called a mick is the same as someone from Asia being called a paki, a Jew is a yid, we could go on. The hurler of the term does not get to decide what is racist. 

Gammon is derogatory as it expresses a term redolent of certain political views just as is woke, lib,lefty.

can you not see the difference?

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

This is the problem. To me as an Irishman being called a mick is the same as someone from Asia being called a paki, a Jew is a yid, we could go on. The hurler of the term does not get to decide what is racist. 

Gammon is derogatory as it expresses a term redolent of certain political views just as is woke, lib,lefty.

can you not see the difference?

No it isn't

 

"Gammon is a term best used to describe white liberal men who spend most of their days ranting angrily on Twitter about people slightly right of them or about people who voted for Brexit."

Not only is it racist it's sexist.

 

[SKD]

9 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

This is the problem. To me as an Irishman being called a mick is the same as someone from Asia being called a paki, a Jew is a yid, we could go on. The hurler of the term does not get to decide what is racist. 

Gammon is derogatory as it expresses a term redolent of certain political views just as is woke, lib,lefty.

can you not see the difference?

‘Gammon’ is a dig at a white persons skin colour. I mean it’s about as racist as you can get. 

As you said, the hurler of the term does not get to decide what is racist. 

[Antrimsaint]

17 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

No. It's derogatory, in the same vein as calling someone a Limey, Sweaty, Yank, Kraut, Frog or Syrup drinking moose f**ker, but it is not racist.

In fact just recently an English warehouse worker won an employment tribunal because whilst living in Scotland his Scottish manager referred to him as an “English c***”. He won because he was discriminated against for his nationality. 

You cannot be discriminated against by calling someone woke, lefty, gammon or whatever.

can we agree racism/xenophobia is bad and should be discouraged/challenged?

[Antrimsaint]

4 minutes ago, SKD said:

‘Gammon’ is a dig at a white persons skin colour. I mean it’s about as racist as you can get. 

As you said, the hurler of the term does not get to decide what is racist. 

I’m white . Am I being racist against myself?

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Antrimsaint said:

I’m white . Am I being racist against myself?

Do you refer to yourself as a gammon then?

[Antrimsaint]

5 minutes ago, SKD said:

‘Gammon’ is a dig at a white persons skin colour. I mean it’s about as racist as you can get. 

As you said, the hurler of the term does not get to decide what is racist. 

That’s a new thought. I guess like black people who get to say the n word amongst each other is not racist the same should be for white people who use the g word amongst each other. I’m a gammon. I never knew.

[SKD]

4 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

I’m white . Am I being racist against myself?

No, you’re just an uneducated, ignorant moron who likes to copy words off social media. In using Racist terminology you are being racist. 
 

Considering you’ve made yourself look a right tit, I’d call it a day mate. 

Edit: I’ll add hypocrite to the list. As you rightly pointed out ‘can we agree racism/xenophobia is bad and should be discouraged/challenged?’

Edited 9 June, 2021 by SKD

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

That’s a new thought. I guess like black people who get to say the n word amongst each other is not racist the same should be for white people who use the g word amongst each other. I’m a gammon. I never knew.

You posting style reminds me of someone. Someone who also got themselves a bad reputation for threatening to report posts to the police.......

[Antrimsaint]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

No, you’re just an uneducated, ignorant moron who likes to copy words off social media. In using Racist terminology you are being racist. 
 

Considering you’ve made yourself look a right tit, I’d call it a day mate. 
 

Projecting mate, but you can say it all you want. I can take it. But silencing people because they disagree with you is classic G behaviour. Next you’ll be telling me to move to the EU if I love it so much.

[SKD]

Just now, Antrimsaint said:

Projecting mate, but you can say it all you want. I can take it. But silencing people because they disagree with you is classic G behaviour. Next you’ll be telling me to move to the EU if I love it so much.

Hang on pal, you’re literally the one trying to silence those who disagree with the knee. 
 

You’re all over the place buddy hahahahahaha 

[Antrimsaint]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You posting style reminds me of someone. Someone who also got themselves a bad reputation for threatening to report posts to the police.......

Reporting racism yes. Will always do that.

[Sir Ralph]

5 minutes ago, SKD said:

Hang on pal, you’re literally the one trying to silence those who disagree with the knee. 
 

You’re all over the place buddy hahahahahaha 

It’s symptomatic of most people who hold these views with belligerence - this is why they avoid debates because their case get torn to part pretty quickly.  

Edited 9 June, 2021 by Sir Ralph

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

Reporting racism yes. Will always do that.

Agreed, we cant tolerate me. You're quite a new poster i see. Tell us a bit about yourself, did you ever go to the Dell? Under the East perhaps? Ever been to Dorset, Bridport or St Helens? What do you do for a job? road crew worker is a good, honest occupation.

Edited 9 June, 2021 by Turkish

[Antrimsaint]

Just now, SKD said:

Hang on pal, you’re literally the one trying to silence those who disagree with the knee. 
 

You’re all over the place buddy hahahahahaha 

No, not silencing, diagreeing and particularly booing your own team because of an anti racism gesture. As the team and Southgate have said quite clearly. I agree with the England team and their stance.

I don’t not agree with Farage/Fox/O’Neil Etc on this as I believe the dinosaurs are a dying breed and their behaviour needs to be shamed. The ones who boo anti racism are on the wrong side of history.

If you disagree with BLM protest at BLM rallies not at football matches. To me and many others it was reminiscent of bananas being thrown at Black players.

[Sweet dee]

Calling an irish person a mick is definitely not the same as saying yank or limey, it's a slur weighted with ethnic/religious bigotry history 

[Antrimsaint]

Just now, Sweet dee said:

Calling an irish person a mick is definitely not the same as saying yank or limey, it's a slur weighted with ethnic/religious bigotry history 

Thank you Sweet, not one person yet has stated that. It my fault I am against racism

[Antrimsaint]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Agreed, we cant tolerate me. You're quite a new poster i see. Tell us a bit about yourself, did you ever go to the Dell? Under the East perhaps? Ever been to Dorset, Bridport or St Helens? What do you do for a job? road crew worker is a good, honest occupation.

Yes went to the Dell since 94, sat in the East and West, wife is from Dorset, live about 15 miles from St Helens. No never been to Bridport. I’m a surveyor.

your point being? Do I have to be a certain type of person to be a Saints fan?

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

No, not silencing, diagreeing and particularly booing your own team because of an anti racism gesture. As the team and Southgate have said quite clearly. I agree with the England team and their stance.

I don’t not agree with Farage/Fox/O’Neil Etc on this as I believe the dinosaurs are a dying breed and their behaviour needs to be shamed. The ones who boo anti racism are on the wrong side of history.

If you disagree with BLM protest at BLM rallies not at football matches. To me and many others it was reminiscent of bananas being thrown at Black players.

And as many fans have said, they’re booing the act of the knee not the alleged meaning behind it. There are many other anti racism gestures that don’t have links to BLM. 

Do I think the players support Marxism / BLM violence? No.
Do I think they are being naive and ignoring the association of the knee with that? Yes. 

But basically what you’re saying is we have to take the word of those you agree with as gospel and those you disagree with a pinch of salt as they’re a closet racist. 

[Antrimsaint]

2 minutes ago, SKD said:

And as many fans have said, they’re booing the act of the knee not the alleged meaning behind it. There are many other anti racism gestures that don’t have links to BLM. 

Do I think the players support Marxism / BLM violence? No.
Do I think they are being naive and ignoring the association of the knee with that? Yes. 

But basically what you’re saying is we have to take the word of those you agree with as gospel and those you disagree with a pinch of salt as they’re a closet racist. 

Very many are, not closet, overt racists and if you are referring to people booing being seen as racists because of their booing don’t do it. That’s how it looks to the vast majority of the population. 

The team and Southgate have clearly articulated their intent. If the booing continues, to me it is quite clear what the intent of the booing is.

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

Yes went to the Dell since 94, sat in the East and West, wife is from Dorset, live about 15 miles from St Helens. No never been to Bridport. I’m a surveyor.

your point being? Do I have to be a certain type of person to be a Saints fan?

good to see you went to the Dell, like many on here you're a bit of a Dell Hero! 

Only asking a few questions  pal as we dont really know you on here, what with you being a new poster and all that, although i notice you've been registered for 15 years but only recently started posting regularly. What's the tescos in St Helens like? 

[SKD]

6 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

Very many are, not closet, overt racists and if you are referring to people booing being seen as racists because of their booing don’t do it. That’s how it looks to the vast majority of the population. 

The team and Southgate have clearly articulated their intent. If the booing continues, to me it is quite clear what the intent of the booing is.

The only one who’s been racist here is you buddy. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, supersonic said:

But football isn't exempt from the problem that society has, it some cases like homophobia, it's worse than society. This campaign is football's way of trying to combat the problem within its own house.

For some reason people seem to think that football as a whole doesn't need to try and help, as it's "societies" problem, without realising that those football fans are also members of society. It's this whole mantra of its not our responsibility to help which is why society moves nowhere. It's up to every factor of society to help and work together to educate people, from education, to sport, to the media and healthcare.

When society has a problem, as you say, there isn't just one way of trying to educate people. 

 

I'm confident that taking the knee at the football hasn't "educated" a single one of the small proportion of people who are football fans and also racists. What it has done is inflamed tensions between a larger group of fans and given some people on twitter and the likes of Gary Lineker the opportunity to call people racist if they express their dislike of the gesture. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

But you still think the Knee isn’t related to BLM 

 

 

Such a tenuous link between the two. In fact not really anything to do with it at all. 

[Antrimsaint]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

good to see you went to the Dell, like many on here you're a bit of a Dell Hero! 

Only asking a few questions  pal as we dont really know you on here, what with you being a new poster and all that, although i notice you've been registered for 15 years but only recently started posting regularly. What's the tescos in St Helens like? 

 I was on Saintsforever and the ugly before that as well. Was a member of Northern Saints for a while. Don’t shop in Tescos. More of a Waitrose man. Like my prawn sandwiches don’t I? (Only a little dig) I’ve been to the cup finals and love my club. I was on the boundary park terrace when Saints scored six, Huddersfield, Wednesday, Bolton, Burnley so I’ve been around the grounds, loved it but have also heard the racism from our own fans. I was a coward and never called it out because I believed it was only the most vocal minority. I am primarily a lurker but this booing has riled me. I don’t mind saying it. It was so open. 

So I can’t apologise for calling it out. 

[Antrimsaint]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm confident that taking the knee at the football hasn't "educated" a single one of the small proportion of people who are football fans and also racists. What it has done is inflamed tensions between a larger group of fans and given some people on twitter and the likes of Gary Lineker the opportunity to call people racist if they express their dislike of the gesture. 

I can’t agree Hypo. Express your dislike in other ways. Booing your own team   Is rubbish. Can’t you see that because of the reaction. How must those England players have felt, Christ.  Are you going to boo Saints players when you get a chance because of this? I will never boo my team. I might boo  Redmond because he’s s*** but not because of his politics.

[Antrimsaint]

13 minutes ago, SKD said:

The only one who’s been racist here is you buddy. 

Mental gymnastics again but you are right, if gammon refers to all white people and I have been a racist I apologise and also to myself because I am white.

There are other terms I can use that refer to political beliefs I disagree with. 

Can you agree also that using the racist term “Mick” is not acceptable?

[Turkish]

Just now, Antrimsaint said:

Mental gymnastics again but you are right, if gammon refers to all white people and I have been a racist I apologise and also to myself because I am white.

There are other terms I can use that refer to political beliefs I disagree with. 

Can you agree also that using the racist term “Mick” is not acceptable?

Are you even Irish? You call yourself Antrim saint but like in the North West and seem to have been following saints home and away for years. 

Mick is a good strong male name, think of all the strong males call Mick, Mick MCCarthy, Mick Jagger, Mick Hucknell, Mick Channon, Mick Mills, Mick Dundee. 

[Antrimsaint]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Are you even Irish? You call yourself Antrim saint but like in the North West and seem to have been following saints home and away for years. 

Mick is a good strong male name, think of all the strong males call Mick, Mick MCCarthy, Mick Jagger, Mick Hucknell, Mick Channon, Mick Mills, Mick Dundee. 

Good God, I moved away from the troubles in 92 for a better life and settled in Southampton so decided to support my local team. I have since moved.

 I won’t rise to the casual stuff later in your post but again it’s just banter innit?

[suewhistle]

Could people not quote Turkish please. There is a reason I have him (and only him) blocked on here. He's a nasty piece of work.

[Antrimsaint]

Are you even Turkish? Have you been to Ankara, Ephesus, Bodrum? You seem to be living in England and been following Saints for years. I thought you would have followed Fenerbace or Galatasaray

18 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Are you even Irish? You call yourself Antrim saint but like in the North West and seem to have been following saints home and away for years. 

Mick is a good strong male name, think of all the strong males call Mick, Mick MCCarthy, Mick Jagger, Mick Hucknell, Mick Channon, Mick Mills, Mick Dundee. 

 

[Antrimsaint]

2 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

Could people not quote Turkish please. There is a reason I have him (and only him) blocked on here. He's a nasty piece of work.

Apologies Sue, mostly a lurker and mostly non confrontational but as a result of disagreements on this subject and admittedly my own childish behaviour seem to have engaged the gam.., sorry reactionary dinosaurs and I can’t let it go. This is one example of the stereotype Irish temper that is accurate.