Supporting the players in taking the knee

[hypochondriac]

35 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Nothing inherently wrong with a swastika, it was used for thousands of years all over the world by many civilizations and countries before the Nazi party used it for 25 years.

Exactly. And if it were plonked in a flag and waved as part of a demonstration and anyone objected then they would be just showing thenselves to be ignorant. Everyone knows the link is incredibly tenuous. 

[Fan The Flames]

39 minutes ago, SKD said:

I know, however start waving them at football and see the reaction... all of a sudden the link between a gesture and political organisation / movement will suddenly be realised by some. 

That's a one size fits all approach, life is more nuanced than that. Is the swastika beyond redemption, discuss.

[Fan The Flames]

12 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Exactly. And if it were plonked in a flag and waved as part of a demonstration and anyone objected then they would be just showing thenselves to be ignorant. Everyone knows the link is incredibly tenuous. 

If you think 6 million deaths is tenuous, you need a dictionary pal.

[Antrimsaint]

22 hours ago, SFC Forever said:

is it possible for you to have a conversation without using defamatory language aginst others.

Certainly when the gammons stop referring to everyone who challenges them lefty, Marxist, woke, snowflake, remoaners. I’ll never apologise to racist apologists. That’s what people who boo an anti-racist gesture are, racists. Just because you say you aren’t doesn’t mean you aren’t. We should all look within and challenge our own stereotypes. 

[JRM]

6 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

Certainly when the gammons stop referring to everyone who challenges them lefty, Marxist, woke, snowflake, remoaners. I’ll never apologise to racist apologists. That’s what people who boo an anti-racist gesture are, racists. Just because you say you aren’t doesn’t mean you aren’t. We should all look within and challenge our own stereotypes. 

You seem to be the only one mocking the colour of someone's skin, gammon this gammon that , have a word with yourself or get some help.

[SKD]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

BLM kicking off in Leeds for a black man being arrested there for being drunk and disorderly, he accepted he was guilty but apparently the racist police were too heavy handed in dealing with him. Protests tonight. No agenda here

Black lives seemingly don’t matter when they’re shot up by another black man

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/sasha-johnson-shooting-peckham-police-mother-appeal-b939158.html?amp#aoh=16230980968671&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

[Adman]

3 minutes ago, SKD said:

Shut up, snowflake.

You’d best call kick it out and the FA snowflakes too. They’ve described booing as an act of racism. But I’m sure the political  objection will save people booing from being labelled racists just as statements like “I’m not a racist, but” and “I have a black mate” have done so successfully previously.

[Badger]

44 minutes ago, JRM said:

You seem to be the only one mocking the colour of someone's skin, gammon this gammon that , have a word with yourself or get some help.

Surprised you're allowed to use  "gammon" as a term of abuse in fear of offending vegans, and the animal welfare lobby.

Pigslivesmatter# and all that.

[kyle04]

3 minutes ago, Adman said:

You’d best call kick it out and the FA snowflakes too. They’ve described booing as an act of racism. But I’m sure the political  objection will save people booing from being labelled racists just as statements like “I’m not a racist, but” and “I have a black mate” have done so successfully previously.

Bollocks. This mindset of if you're not with us you're against us (and hence a racist) is a dangerous divisive road, and one that the FA are certainly aren't qualified to pass judgement on. The BLM stance embraced by the FA seems to be creating more division, and to label people who question aspects of it as racists is in itself lazy steriotyping. It's called free speech pal, if you want to suppress that that makes you worse than any "racist".

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

1 hour ago, Antrimsaint said:

Certainly when the gammons stop referring to everyone who challenges them lefty, Marxist, woke, snowflake, remoaners. I’ll never apologise to racist apologists. That’s what people who boo an anti-racist gesture are, racists. Just because you say you aren’t doesn’t mean you aren’t. We should all look within and challenge our own stereotypes. 

Yeah and just because you say you aren't a woke snowflake doesn't mean you aren't pal

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, Antrimsaint said:

Certainly when the gammons stop referring to everyone who challenges them lefty, Marxist, woke, snowflake, remoaners. I’ll never apologise to racist apologists. That’s what people who boo an anti-racist gesture are, racists. Just because you say you aren’t doesn’t mean you aren’t. We should all look within and challenge our own stereotypes. 

Antrimsaint - you keep repeating the same point. 

You still haven’t responded to my point from yesterday which I’ve copied below for your ease of reference. I’m assuming you will (a) ignore (b) do a funny face or (c) send abuse. All of which confirm you don’t have an adequate response. So come on debate the below and how your theory fits in this context....

So a person who is black or has dedicated their live to working with underprivileged parts of the black community who objects to kneeling is a racist? 
 

On the assumption you will say “yes” I know people who fall within this category. Please explain your logic in this context....

[hypochondriac]

Let's be honest this whole thing got a but mad and out of hand last year when everyone was locked in their homes and there were no fans in the stadiums to voice their displeasure. Had fans been there then this would have ended months ago. 

[Adman]

20 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

Bollocks. This mindset of if you're not with us you're against us (and hence a racist) is a dangerous divisive road, and one that the FA are certainly aren't qualified to pass judgement on. The BLM stance embraced by the FA seems to be creating more division, and to label people who question aspects of it as racists is in itself lazy steriotyping. It's called free speech pal, if you want to suppress that that makes you worse than any "racist".

Yeah let’s ignore the reason for taking knee has been clearly expressed. 

[egg]

2 hours ago, Adman said:

. 

 

Edited 8 June, 2021 by egg

[Convict Colony]

I just want sport to just be sport again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Saint_lambden]

[supersonic]

5 hours ago, Sweet dee said:

If it wasn't bad enough that people were taking offence at an anti racism gesture, now some here are getting upset over adverts, but apparently racism doesn't exist here 🤦‍♀️

I remember seeing an old work colleague on Facebook, absolutely livid that Sainsbury's used a black family in their advert.

I told him if he was that upset about the thought of brown people being involved with Xmas then he might want to sit down about the news I was about to give him regarding Jesus.

He then blocked me.

I've missed his constant sharing of articles by Nigel Farage, Lawrence Fox and Tommy Robinson as well as his dislike for anyone vaguely brown, sorry Marxist. 

[Antrimsaint]

2 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Antrimsaint - you keep repeating the same point. 

You still haven’t responded to my point from yesterday which I’ve copied below for your ease of reference. I’m assuming you will (a) ignore (b) do a funny face or (c) send abuse. All of which confirm you don’t have an adequate response. So come on debate the below and how your theory fits in this context....

 

So a person who is black or has dedicated their live to working with underprivileged parts of the black community who objects to kneeling is a racist? 
 

On the assumption you will say “yes” I know people who fall within this category. Please explain your logic in this context....

If a black person is booing an anti racism gesture in a football ground I’d be very surprised yes.

[captainchris]

3 hours ago, Antrimsaint said:

Certainly when the gammons stop referring to everyone who challenges them lefty, Marxist, woke, snowflake, remoaners. I’ll never apologise to racist apologists. That’s what people who boo an anti-racist gesture are, racists. Just because you say you aren’t doesn’t mean you aren’t. We should all look within and challenge our own stereotypes. 

Utter crap! That’s the problem with taking the knee, it points a finger at everyone when only a very small minority are actually racist. Taking the knee will not change the racists...
The sanctimonious seem to like congratulating themselves for being such amazing human beings and put themselves above those with balanced views who disapprove of BLM but are not racist.

 

 

[Antrimsaint]

5 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Utter crap! That’s the problem with taking the knee, it points a finger at everyone when only a very small minority are actually racist. Taking the knee will not change the racists...
The sanctimonious seem to like congratulating themselves for being such amazing human beings and put themselves above those with balanced views who disapprove of BLM but are not racist.

 

 

Fine, disapproval of BLM is warranted, booing your own players for an anti racism gesture is pathetic.

[Antrimsaint]

9 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Utter crap! That’s the problem with taking the knee, it points a finger at everyone when only a very small minority are actually racist. Taking the knee will not change the racists...
The sanctimonious seem to like congratulating themselves for being such amazing human beings and put themselves above those with balanced views who disapprove of BLM but are not racist.

 

 

You seem to conveniently forget that the boos were drowned out by the majority in the ground so  that must mean they all agree with BLMs political goals as opposed to realising what the real purpose of the booing was.

[supersonic]

Just watching the BBC documentary on England football.

Think it's unfair we've jumped to conclusions of people who boo the taking of the knee. It's not like we've been here before, like when people held up signs saying "go home" at Sven when he landed to take the England job, which are clearly because people hate Marxists and aren't bigoted racists/xenophobes.

And the fact that Anton Ferdinand still gets a rougher time than John Terry, despite the latter abusing him. It's obviously that JT was simply opposing Anton's Marxist views rather than his skin colour.

Or the fact only certain footballers are abused on social media almost weekly, but it's nothing to do with race, it must conveniently be because of their Marxist sympathies.

But of course, football doesn't have a problem with racism, sexism or homophobia and we are totally outrageous to even suggest such a thing 🙄

[Antrimsaint]

5 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Just watching the BBC documentary on England football.

Think it's unfair we've jumped to conclusions of people who boo the taking of the knee. It's not like we've been here before, like when people held up signs saying "go home" at Sven when he landed to take the England job, which are clearly because people hate Marxists and aren't bigoted racists/xenophobes.

And the fact that Anton Ferdinand still gets a rougher time than John Terry, despite the latter abusing him. It's obviously that JT was simply opposing Anton's Marxist views rather than his skin colour.

Or the fact only certain footballers are abused on social media almost weekly, but it's nothing to do with race, it must conveniently be because of their Marxist sympathies.

But of course, football doesn't have a problem with racism, sexism or homophobia and we are totally outrageous to even suggest such a thing 🙄

The mental gymnastics going on is incredible to behold. Ive lived in England for nearly thirty years and have never known a time when the racists have been so emboldened. I haven’t really experienced overt xenophobia bar the odd casual, ignorant comments but it seems more out in the open now and the apologists fall over themselves to excuse it.

Duckie called me a Mick tonight in the name of easy banter equating it with being called  a gammon as if gammons are a race or nationality. Being insulted is not an excuse for  racism/xenophobia. Can’t see the difference and thats where the racism is. They don’t recognise it. 

[Saint86]

 

4 hours ago, SKD said:

Black lives seemingly don’t matter when they’re shot up by another black man

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/sasha-johnson-shooting-peckham-police-mother-appeal-b939158.html?amp#aoh=16230980968671&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

She isn't a nice bit of work lets be honest 🤷‍♂️, but then she's also not unique in that regard when it comes to extreme political activists. Who knows, maybe she'll be lucky enough to make a fully recovery, adjust her outlook to become less angry and intolerant. 

What was a good gesture was all the clubs etc boycotting social media to make a point about social networks harbouring racists. That wasn't politically aligned, it was stronger communal action by the football community, and its didn't draw any negative fan pressures. Funny that.

Like it or not, the issue here is BLM UK perceived messaging in football, and by attachment, kneeling down and raising a fist. That and people's inability to have a respectful conversation with those of a different outlook rather than insulting each other. 

Edited 9 June, 2021 by Saint86

[Saint86]

 

20 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

The mental gymnastics going on is incredible to behold. Ive lived in England for nearly thirty years and have never known a time when the racists have been so emboldened. I haven’t really experienced overt xenophobia bar the odd casual, ignorant comments but it seems more out in the open now and the apologists fall over themselves to excuse it.

Duckie called me a Mick tonight in the name of easy banter equating it with being called  a gammon as if gammons are a race or nationality. Being insulted is not an excuse for  racism/xenophobia. Can’t see the difference and thats where the racism is. They don’t recognise it. 

BLM is significantly divisive. And people behaving like this is point in case.

Edited 9 June, 2021 by Saint86

[Antrimsaint]

26 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

 

BLM is significantly divisive. And people behaving like this is point in case.

Are you saying its one sided? Booing your own players is pathetic. Racism is pathetic. Its really that simple. It doesn’t need to be over complicated. Did you read Southgates statement? That is what is their intent. That is what I support and I am against racism. Simples.  

[Fan The Flames]

12 hours ago, Turkish said:

BLM kicking off in Leeds for a black man being arrested there for being drunk and disorderly, he accepted he was guilty but apparently the racist police were too heavy handed in dealing with him. Protests tonight. No agenda here

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/live-leeds-black-lives-matter-20770090

Hardly kicking off, small diverse crowd with a couple of ginger kids with placards. Probably an over reaction but so is your post.

[hypochondriac]

This is completely correct: 

 

 

[Sir Ralph]

7 hours ago, Antrimsaint said:

If a black person is booing an anti racism gesture in a football ground I’d be very surprised yes.

Well be surprised then. Zaha has shown his opposition to it as have other players so is it really that surprising? Not had the chance to attend a game yet but would when they do. They don’t see it as anti-racism but have a dislike of what BLM stands for as an organisation and other reasons. I also don’t believe their view of kneeling is more valid than yours or mine - our views are all valid. therefore, if they aren’t racist, neither are the other people on this forum who hold similar or many others that boo (I say many because there will be some who boo out of racist intent but not a vast majority I suspect).

[hypochondriac]

7 hours ago, supersonic said:

Just watching the BBC documentary on England football.

Think it's unfair we've jumped to conclusions of people who boo the taking of the knee. It's not like we've been here before, like when people held up signs saying "go home" at Sven when he landed to take the England job, which are clearly because people hate Marxists and aren't bigoted racists/xenophobes.

And the fact that Anton Ferdinand still gets a rougher time than John Terry, despite the latter abusing him. It's obviously that JT was simply opposing Anton's Marxist views rather than his skin colour.

Or the fact only certain footballers are abused on social media almost weekly, but it's nothing to do with race, it must conveniently be because of their Marxist sympathies.

But of course, football doesn't have a problem with racism, sexism or homophobia and we are totally outrageous to even suggest such a thing 🙄

Players receiving racist abuse on social media is not proof that football has a problem with racism to any greater degree than wider society. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Sky are at the cutting edge of this woke nonsense. Here’s one of their commentary team shortly after one of his colleagues was found guilty of actual racism. This is how he dealt with the racist work mate.

 

 

[SKD]

7 hours ago, Antrimsaint said:

Fine, disapproval of BLM is warranted, booing your own players for an anti racism gesture is pathetic.

If you can’t see why people would link the knee to BLM (which you agree disapproval is warranted), then despite all of your insults, it’s you who clearly isn’t that intelligent. You may disagree with people linking the two, that’s fine. But for some, there is a clear link between the two. 
 

As said many a time, use another anti racism gesture and the boo’s will disappear. 

[supersonic]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Players receiving racist abuse on social media is not proof that football has a problem with racism to any greater degree than wider society. 

Well it doesn't exactly back up the attitude that some people have which is "football doesn't have a race problem", does it?

 

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Well it doesn't exactly back up the attitude that some people have which is "football doesn't have a race problem", does it?

 

Football or crowds of 50,000 people? I reckon if I spoke to everyone at the Newark Antiques Fair I’d here a few unsavoury opinions on ethnic minorities.

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Well it doesn't exactly back up the attitude that some people have which is "football doesn't have a race problem", does it?

 

Black players receiving racist abuse from people on social miedia- whilst unpleasant and unacceptable to most normal people in society-doesn't mean football has a race problem to any greater degree than wider society. Social media isn't "football" its anonymous users sending abuse online to high profile people which happens to a ridiculous degree. 

[SKD]

10 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Well it doesn't exactly back up the attitude that some people have which is "football doesn't have a race problem", does it?

 

Social media has an online abuse problem, not just racism, but that forms a large part of it. 
 

There’s your issue, not football crowds. 

[SKD]

Maybe one for the lounge, but let’s open the floor... What is more of an issue in the country; Racial inequality or Black on Black street gang crime? Discuss. 
 

If Black lives really did matter to these multi millionaires; the FA would get behind a anti Knife campaign. One which would have much more impact to the country. 

[egg]

53 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

This is completely correct: 

 

 

People like Antrim still won't get it though Hypo. They either believe or have been led to believe that the knee being used in football is a nice little gesture, and that only racists cannot get behind it. Every statement or comment from football managers or players supporting that position is widening the divide. I'm not sure where we go from here, but the cycle has to stop and the solution is so simple. 

Edited 9 June, 2021 by egg

[JRM]

This whole scenario is similar to what I see in the Labour party, the FA are the party desperately trying to be as woke as possible , Southgate is Starmer on his knees, we've got sneering commentators who can't stand patriotic working class (see Emily Thornberry and her comments on flying the flag) and the fans are like the voters, some loyally supporting anything but many others who have just had enough of it all. 

They've become so focussed on how they perceive themselves the FA are out of touch with the fans in the stands and make no attempt to understand them. 

Edited 9 June, 2021 by JRM

[supersonic]

23 minutes ago, SKD said:

Maybe one for the lounge, but let’s open the floor... What is more of an issue in the country; Racial inequality or Black on Black street gang crime? Discuss. 
 

If Black lives really did matter to these multi millionaires; the FA would get behind a anti Knife campaign. One which would have much more impact to the country. 

But you still think you aren't part of the problem? 

[supersonic]

34 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Black players receiving racist abuse from people on social miedia- whilst unpleasant and unacceptable to most normal people in society-doesn't mean football has a race problem to any greater degree than wider society. Social media isn't "football" its anonymous users sending abuse online to high profile people which happens to a ridiculous degree. 

But football isn't exempt from the problem that society has, it some cases like homophobia, it's worse than society. This campaign is football's way of trying to combat the problem within its own house.

For some reason people seem to think that football as a whole doesn't need to try and help, as it's "societies" problem, without realising that those football fans are also members of society. It's this whole mantra of its not our responsibility to help which is why society moves nowhere. It's up to every factor of society to help and work together to educate people, from education, to sport, to the media and healthcare.

When society has a problem, as you say, there isn't just one way of trying to educate people. 

 

[East Kent Saint]

7 minutes ago, JRM said:

This whole scenario is similar to what I see in the Labour party, the FA are the party desperately trying to be as woke as possible , Southgate is Starmer on his knees, we've got sneering commentators who can't stand patriotic working class (see Emily Thornberry and her comments on flying the flag) and the fans are like the voters, some loyally supporting anything but many others who have just had enough of it all. 

Isn’t working class a bit out of date ? Labour seem to failed to notice that all the old mass employment industries have been shutdown in the UK . Plus once people find you can vote for someone else you don’t go back eg Scotland . The football industry has moved on and is now an expensive form of entertainment ….

[Antrimsaint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Sky are at the cutting edge of this woke nonsense. Here’s one of their commentary team shortly after one of his colleagues was found guilty of actual racism. This is how he dealt with the racist work mate.

 

 

Wanna call me a Mick again duckie ?

Edited 9 June, 2021 by Antrimsaint

[egg]

1 minute ago, Antrimsaint said:

Wanna call me a Mick again duckie ?

Wanna stop throwing around the childish Gammon insults mate? Reap/sow etc. 

[Antrimsaint]

Just now, egg said:

Wanna stop throwing around the childish Gammon insults mate? Reap/sow etc. 

Gammon = Mick ? I get it . There’s your issue egg. If I get called snowflake am I allowed to make a racist comment? 

[Antrimsaint]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Wanna stop throwing around the childish Gammon insults mate? Reap/sow etc. 

Strange how none of my comments regarding Gammons, have not been removed but the racist one was. Can you explain?

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

Well be surprised then. Zaha has shown his opposition to it as have other players so is it really that surprising? Not had the chance to attend a game yet but would when they do. They don’t see it as anti-racism but have a dislike of what BLM stands for as an organisation and other reasons. I also don’t believe their view of kneeling is more valid than yours or mine - our views are all valid. therefore, if they aren’t racist, neither are the other people on this forum who hold similar or many others that boo (I say many because there will be some who boo out of racist intent but not a vast majority I suspect).

also have acquaintances of Asian origin who attend football. They also disagree - I assume their views are valid as it is an anti-racism gesture? The group and width of intelligent people with sound reasons against this grows.:....maybe these people aren’t all closet racists.

if they changed the gesture to linking arms this would mainly go away. However unfortunately the PL, Southgate and players are too simple to understand the nuances of the shameful objectives of BLM. They say they want to “bring everyone on board” but will not make this simple change - so that’s lip service “follow us or else”. Regardless I think we have all received the anti-racism message loud and clear and all they are now doing is making those who are racist even more entrenched. 

Edited 9 June, 2021 by Sir Ralph

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

Gammon = Mick ? I get it . There’s your issue egg. If I get called snowflake am I allowed to make a racist comment? 

I'm not here to adjudicate on what's allowed mate, that's for the mods, but you've been abusing people by calling them a gammon. You get a dig back from Duckie and then sulk. 

If you don't want a slap back, don't slap others. 

[JRM]

Brentford players agreed to stop taking the knee back in February. 

Now they have been promoted I'm sure they'll be under a lot of pressure from the Premier league and SKY PR departments to join in again, unless a decision is made by all clubs to stop it in August. 

[Antrimsaint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

I'm not here to adjudicate on what's allowed mate, that's for the mods, but you've been abusing people by calling them a gammon. You get a dig back from Duckie and then sulk. 

If you don't want a slap back, don't slap others. 

Pal I can take any thing you want to throw. Lefty, woke, commie. Whatever you like but isn’t it ironic you are doubling down on the racism in an argument about anti racism. I tell you what. I will apologise for any offence caused by the term gammon. Will he apologise for the racism he used?