Supporting the players in taking the knee

[Lighthouse]

16 minutes ago, supersonic said:

No it isn't, the Poppy Appeal is a find raising event for the charity Royal British Legion.

If people are going to link taking the knee to BLM, then by their own logic, wearing a Poppy is support for RBL...

I'd also like you to search "James MacLean" into twitter in early November and tell me it isn't Political.

 

The Royal British Legion is a charity, not a political movement. That doesn’t mean people like McClean can’t be a kn*b about it but it’s not a political movement. 

[Saint_clark]

5 hours ago, Jonnyboy said:

I bet those scary-wary "trained Marxists" (lol) spent it all on AK47s and are taking over the government as we speak 🤭

Hilarious. 

Not at all what I was getting at. The people who donated that huge sum of money have a right to know what it's being spent on. As people on here have pointed out repeatedly, there isn't just one all encompassing BLM organisation so who actually received that money and what have they spent it on? I'm not even really that fussed, just curious in this case.

[Fan The Flames]

6 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm sorry I don't really understand what point you're making now. You've accepted that there's political baggage associated with the gesture whether you personally choose to ignore that association or not. Bit silly to pretend that the black lives matter has had no impact in the UK even if the most negative impact has been in America. There's been loads of actions by the political movement in this country that would be worthy of disapproval and hostility. Something negative happening in my country doesn't have to affect me immediately and directly for me to have either a positive or negative opinion about it. 

I don't know what point you are trying to make now.

[Fan The Flames]

6 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

The Royal British Legion is a charity, not a political movement. That doesn’t mean people like McClean can’t be a kn*b about it but it’s not a political movement. 

Both are organisations concerned with the welfare of a specific group, with tenuous political associations that most people are capable of ignoring but some people choose not to.

Feels exactly the same to me.

[egg]

18 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Both are organisations concerned with the welfare of a specific group, with tenuous political associations that most people are capable of ignoring but some people choose not to.

Feels exactly the same to me.

Oh come on, you can't compare BLM to the British Legion, and say that both have tenuous political associations. The British Legion is a charity supporting servicemen. It isn't trying to bring about change. BLM, as a movement, is trying to bring about societal change, thus it has a political agenda. 

[Fan The Flames]

Oh come on it's not a political issue to seek racial equality. What century are we living in.

The tenuous political element is that some in BLM hold left wing views. But the core aim of the movement is racial equality.

[Lord Duckhunter]

He’ll be comparing The Salvation Army to the marines next 

[egg]

6 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Oh come on it's not a political issue to seek racial equality. What century are we living in.

The tenuous political element is that some in BLM hold left wing views. But the core aim of the movement is racial equality.

If the BLM movement sought equality it'd be OK. It doesn't. The mantra is pro black, not equality. My politics are a long way left of centre and I see what BLM is about, but can't support its divisive message, and object to it being thrust onto the masses by footy players. 

A simple, non controversial, non political, message of equality (not just race) such as "equality for all" is something everyone bar the actual racists and loons will get behind.

What this thread shows is division, and a lack of recognition of the actual BLM message (or as a minimum, the perception) and an unwillingness to listen to why decent people object to the knee on football. 

[eurosaint]

If this thread is any way indicative of wider public opinion and I think it probably is....

The gesture therefore is becoming inflammatory and ceases to emit a positive message so perhaps should be stopped !

Problem is that the likes of Southgate would now perceive it as a climbdown and won't do it for that reason !

The Euros will be affected by it which is a real shame and I really hope that it doesn't boil over...

[Fan The Flames]

https://blacklivesmatter.uk/official-statement

WELCOME - We stand together across the globe to change the world, we kneel together in peace and solidarity asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. It is a human right to receive racial equality, social and criminal justice in the societies we live and to receive parity as full citizens of the country and as a united nation.

We are a non-political, non-partisan, non-violence platform. Some content published on our website may have limited political content by the very nature of a country state governed and under a system of democracy. We operate in a humanitarian capacity and concern before all else. 

We are not operating in a political capacity, are not a member of nor are we connected with any political party or political campaign.

[supersonic]

8 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

The Royal British Legion is a charity, not a political movement. That doesn’t mean people like McClean can’t be a kn*b about it but it’s not a political movement. 

And BLM is a community benefit society, not a political party.

RBL have a manifesto regarding "key actions they believe the government should take" which makes them as much, if not more, of a political movement as BLM.

But of course, some people can't (or more accurately, won't) see the similarities).

Source: https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/things-to-do/campaigns-policy-and-research/manifestos

[supersonic]

54 minutes ago, egg said:

If the BLM movement sought equality it'd be OK. It doesn't. The mantra is pro black, not equality. My politics are a long way left of centre and I see what BLM is about, but can't support its divisive message, and object to it being thrust onto the masses by footy players. 

A simple, non controversial, non political, message of equality (not just race) such as "equality for all" is something everyone bar the actual racists and loons will get behind.

What this thread shows is division, and a lack of recognition of the actual BLM message (or as a minimum, the perception) and an unwillingness to listen to why decent people object to the knee on football. 

How do you get equality without excessive representation of the prejudiced group? 

[Nolan]

6 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

https://blacklivesmatter.uk/official-statement

WELCOME - We stand together across the globe to change the world, we kneel together in peace and solidarity asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. It is a human right to receive racial equality, social and criminal justice in the societies we live and to receive parity as full citizens of the country and as a united nation.

We are a non-political, non-partisan, non-violence platform. Some content published on our website may have limited political content by the very nature of a country state governed and under a system of democracy. We operate in a humanitarian capacity and concern before all else. 

We are not operating in a political capacity, are not a member of nor are we connected with any political party or political campaign.

try checking out Black Lives Matter - (blacklivesmatteruk.com)

[egg]

12 minutes ago, supersonic said:

How do you get equality without excessive representation of the prejudiced group? 

Err, how do you get equality with inequality? 

[egg]

1 hour ago, egg said:

If the BLM movement sought equality it'd be OK. It doesn't. The mantra is pro black, not equality. My politics are a long way left of centre and I see what BLM is about, but can't support its divisive message, and object to it being thrust onto the masses by footy players. 

A simple, non controversial, non political, message of equality (not just race) such as "equality for all" is something everyone bar the actual racists and loons will get behind.

What this thread shows is division, and a lack of recognition of the actual BLM message (or as a minimum, the perception) and an unwillingness to listen to why decent people object to the knee on football. 

The "confused" reactions to this post highlights that people don't understand what this about on both sides. 

[RedArmy]

49 minutes ago, supersonic said:

How do you get equality without excessive representation of the prejudiced group? 

Positive discrimination is not equality. 

[Lighthouse]

54 minutes ago, supersonic said:

And BLM is a community benefit society, not a political party.

RBL have a manifesto regarding "key actions they believe the government should take" which makes them as much, if not more, of a political movement as BLM.

But of course, some people can't (or more accurately, won't) see the similarities).

Source: https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/things-to-do/campaigns-policy-and-research/manifestos

That manifesto asks for very little other than local government support for their charity work. There are no demands for change to the system, bringing down the Police or other such ideology. If BLM was a charity, asking for nothing more than remembrance for young black lives lost in street violence and racist attacks and funding - either government or through donation - for local volunteers and support groups, everyone would be behind it.

[SKD]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

https://blacklivesmatter.uk/official-statement

WELCOME - We stand together across the globe to change the world, we kneel together in peace and solidarity asserting Black people are treated as equals to White people. It is a human right to receive racial equality, social and criminal justice in the societies we live and to receive parity as full citizens of the country and as a united nation.

We are a non-political, non-partisan, non-violence platform. Some content published on our website may have limited political content by the very nature of a country state governed and under a system of democracy. We operate in a humanitarian capacity and concern before all else. 

We are not operating in a political capacity, are not a member of nor are we connected with any political party or political campaign.

Whilst were here, I may as well open the can of worms. 

Was George Floyd’s death racially motivated or just over aggressive American policing? I’ve not seen anything to suggest that it was racially motivated. 

If we’re honest and reports of his past are true, Mr Floyd (whilst clearly didn’t deserve to die), wasn’t a very nice bloke. Why do BLM use him as a head figure? As I understand the officer in question has been charged with Murder, what further justice do they want for him? 

Why don’t they include a page in memory of every single young black male who’s been attacked with a machete on the streets of London? 

That page is race baiting and only including stories which suit their agenda. 

[supersonic]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Err, how do you get equality with inequality? 

We don't have equality, which is why we need to balance that out and proportionately support those who need it accordingly to achieve equity. 

[supersonic]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Oh come on, you can't compare BLM to the British Legion, and say that both have tenuous political associations. The British Legion is a charity supporting servicemen. It isn't trying to bring about change. BLM, as a movement, is trying to bring about societal change, thus it has a political agenda. 

If it's "not trying to bring about change" then why does it advertise that it is in constant discussions with government and officials to influence views they think they should take?

Sounds pretty political to me....

Edited 8 June, 2021 by supersonic

[supersonic]

31 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Positive discrimination is not equality. 

Please explain how we get to equality if we can't get everyone to the same point? 

[SKD]

4 minutes ago, supersonic said:

We don't have equality, which is why we need to balance that out and proportionately support those who need it accordingly to achieve equity. 

Isn’t that effectively socialism / communism / Marxist (however you want to label it) 😃

[supersonic]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

Isn’t that effectively socialism / communism / Marxist (however you want to label it) 😃

No, it's equality. Which is apparently what everyone wants in terms of race, but yet they seem reluctant to support plans that will lead to this

 

[SKD]

8 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Please explain how we get to equality if we can't get everyone to the same point? 

What do you define as equality? Given that we don’t really have equality in any form of life. 

Edited 8 June, 2021 by SKD

[SKD]

1 minute ago, supersonic said:

No, it's equality. Which is apparently what everyone wants in terms of race, but yet they seem reluctant to support plans that will lead to this

 

Cool, if mr Rashford (or insert any other black premier league player) wants to donate some of his millions in aid of ‘equality’ he’s more than welcome to ping me some. 

[supersonic]

7 minutes ago, SKD said:

What do you define as equality? Given that we don’t really have equality in any form of life. 

It's technically equity we are striving for, rather than equality. But it's quite clear people don't want that 

[saintsdan]

19 minutes ago, SKD said:

Isn’t that effectively socialism / communism / Marxist (however you want to label it) 😃

Yes because socialism, communism and marxism are all exactly the same thing - showing your deep understanding of the ideology you so oppose there. 

[saintsdan]

 

[SKD]

4 minutes ago, saintsdan said:

Yes because socialism, communism and marxism are all exactly the same thing - showing your deep understanding of the ideology you so oppose there. 

When did I say they were? However The fundamental outcome of Socialism and communism is ‘equality’. 
 

Well done for trying though buddy. 

[Millbrook Saint]

2 hours ago, egg said:

If the BLM movement sought equality it'd be OK. It doesn't. The mantra is pro black, not equality. My politics are a long way left of centre and I see what BLM is about, but can't support its divisive message, and object to it being thrust onto the masses by footy players. 

A simple, non controversial, non political, message of equality (not just race) such as "equality for all" is something everyone bar the actual racists and loons will get behind.

What this thread shows is division, and a lack of recognition of the actual BLM message (or as a minimum, the perception) and an unwillingness to listen to why decent people object to the knee on football. 

Perfectly put, people should be treated equally whether they be black, white, red, yellow, straight, gay, ginger, fat, thin.  No one would object to a simple message stating the need for equality.

What we don't need is this divisive message from BLM who clearly want division, look at how it's already dividing people where they weren't divided before.

You have Ian Wright and Gareth Southgate accusing England fans of being racists because they booed.

You have people on here accusing people of being racist just because they disagree with BLM.

This country has been heading in the right direction for years with regards to race relations, all this pathetic posturing from footballers kneeling at every game, the ramming down our throats of every white person is racist has set the cause back years and will cause racism, but I guess that's exactly what BLM want

[supersonic]

39 minutes ago, SKD said:

When did I say they were? However The fundamental outcome of Socialism and communism is ‘equality’. 
 

Well done for trying though buddy. 

So you don't want equality then? Is that why you support booing? 

Kinda backs up the point that is being made...

[SKD]

9 minutes ago, supersonic said:

So you don't want equality then? Is that why you support booing? 

Kinda backs up the point that is being made...

Depends what equality you’re after. Equality is a very, very vague terminology and in its purest form simply not achievable. 
 

Do I think the UK is fundamentally racist? Absolutely not. Are their racists with society? Of course, like there are people of colour who probably hate the UK and white people. There are cunts in all form of race, life etc. Who’d have thought it. 

 

[Nemi]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

Cool, if mr Rashford (or insert any other black premier league player) wants to donate some of his millions in aid of ‘equality’ he’s more than welcome to ping me some. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/marcus-rashford-tops-sunday-times-20651287.amp

[Nemi]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

Cool, if mr Rashford (or insert any other black premier league player) wants to donate some of his millions in aid of ‘equality’ he’s more than welcome to ping me some. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/marcus-rashford-tops-sunday-times-20651287.amp

[supersonic]

24 minutes ago, SKD said:

Depends what equality you’re after. Equality is a very, very vague terminology and in its purest form simply not achievable. 
 

Do I think the UK is fundamentally racist? Absolutely not. Are their racists with society? Of course, like there are people of colour who probably hate the UK and white people. There are cunts in all form of race, life etc. Who’d have thought it. 

 

So because you think it's unachievable we may as well boo those who want to get as close to it as possible?

Part. Of. The. Problem.

[SKD]

10 minutes ago, supersonic said:

So because you think it's unachievable we may as well boo those who want to get as close to it as possible?

Part. Of. The. Problem.

You’re just simply Ignoring why people are booing and making up some fantasy that everyone hates black people. 

Part. Of. The. Problem. 

As I’ve said previously, it’s a pointless debate / thread that’ll go round and round who no one achieving anything. 

[Totton Saint]

1 hour ago, Millbrook Saint said:

Perfectly put, people should be treated equally whether they be black, white, red, yellow, straight, gay, ginger, fat, thin.  No one would object to a simple message stating the need for equality.

What we don't need is this divisive message from BLM who clearly want division, look at how it's already dividing people where they weren't divided before.

You have Ian Wright and Gareth Southgate accusing England fans of being racists because they booed.

You have people on here accusing people of being racist just because they disagree with BLM.

This country has been heading in the right direction for years with regards to race relations, all this pathetic posturing from footballers kneeling at every game, the ramming down our throats of every white person is racist has set the cause back years and will cause racism, but I guess that's exactly what BLM want

Is it  not racist to have so many black people on TV adverts thrust at us. I had many blck friend when I worked in Ghana so nothing against them .had a  black friend in Dartmouth

[LiberalCommunist]

The adverts have gone diversity crazy. You won't see a black family or a white family, but more like some interracial hotbed that will allow them to sell more shite to more people. I wonder if it works?

[Scully]

6 hours ago, Millbrook Saint said:

Perfectly put, people should be treated equally whether they be black, white, red, yellow, straight, gay, ginger, fat, thin.  No one would object to a simple message stating the need for equality.

What we don't need is this divisive message from BLM who clearly want division, look at how it's already dividing people where they weren't divided before.

You have Ian Wright and Gareth Southgate accusing England fans of being racists because they booed.

You have people on here accusing people of being racist just because they disagree with BLM.

This country has been heading in the right direction for years with regards to race relations, all this pathetic posturing from footballers kneeling at every game, the ramming down our throats of every white person is racist has set the cause back years and will cause racism, but I guess that's exactly what BLM want

Yes it's akin to throwing water on an oil fire in an earnest attempt to put it out. It's creating this huge division, a polarised 'you're with us or against us' mentality which doesn't apply to most ordinary people.

Most people hate being told how they should think and how they should feel by someone else. I just don't see how it helps the cause even with best intentions.

[Jonnyboy]

9 hours ago, egg said:

If the BLM movement sought equality it'd be OK. It doesn't. The mantra is pro black, not equality. My politics are a long way left of centre and I see what BLM is about, but can't support its divisive message, and object to it being thrust onto the masses by footy players. 

A simple, non controversial, non political, message of equality (not just race) such as "equality for all" is something everyone bar the actual racists and loons will get behind.

What this thread shows is division, and a lack of recognition of the actual BLM message (or as a minimum, the perception) and an unwillingness to listen to why decent people object to the knee on football. 

I think you are confusing pro-black with black supremacy. 

[Alanh]

 

[Alanh]

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/dear-england-gareth-southgate-euros-soccer

[Sweet dee]

If it wasn't bad enough that people were taking offence at an anti racism gesture, now some here are getting upset over adverts, but apparently racism doesn't exist here 🤦‍♀️

[SKD]

14 minutes ago, Alanh said:

 

By that logic, I’m guessing that James O’Brien (never heard of him but the most boring patronising voice I’ve ever heard btw), if fans come out and said this gesture is for anti racism, would have no issue with fans waving a swastika and Saluting before the game. 

[Pedantic Pete]

If the players truly believe that the booing is racism, shouldn't they walk off the pitch and abandon the game?

 

[egg]

26 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

I think you are confusing pro-black with black supremacy. 

No confusion. Call it what you will. Take Anthony Joshua at a BLM rally last year saying to black people to give priority to supporting black business's. That's not promoting an equal society. 

[Matthew Le God]

8 minutes ago, SKD said:

waving a swastika 

Nothing inherently wrong with a swastika, it was used for thousands of years all over the world by many civilizations and countries before the Nazi party used it for 25 years.

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Nothing inherently wrong with a swastika, it was used for thousands of years all over the world by many civilizations and countries before the Nazi party used it for 25 years.

I know, however start waving them at football and see the reaction... all of a sudden the link between a gesture and political organisation / movement will suddenly be realised by some. 

Edited 8 June, 2021 by SKD

[Turkish]

BLM kicking off in Leeds for a black man being arrested there for being drunk and disorderly, he accepted he was guilty but apparently the racist police were too heavy handed in dealing with him. Protests tonight. No agenda here

[kyle04]

It's clear there's something not quite right about this issue, many people feel uncomfortable about the BLM "movement" and stand to be labelled racists by those who clearly know better. Like Turkish and his exotic fruit/gammon combinations, I bought a jar of Levi Roots sauce long before this whole thing happened so that proves I'm not a racist, and I thought Neville Staple was the 2nd best member of the Specials so there...